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Need feedback on new car purchase
Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car
itself, and of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and destination charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer add-on ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" coatings or other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.) When all this is added up, the drive-out price ain't too great. Any of you had any experience getting them to waive the "customer service" fee or any of the other crappola? It appears from Edmunds that they are getting $500 from Honda this month just for moving an '08 Accord. Any ideas/feedback? Thanks! |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
SC@nospam.com (Space Chimp) wrote in
news:nv6Ck.38878$bx1.14582@bignews1.bellsouth.net: > Any of you had any experience getting them to waive the > "customer service" fee or any of the other crappola? Just tell 'em you don't want the junk, mean it, and be prepared to walk away. -- Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
"Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:nv6Ck.38878$bx1.14582@bignews1.bellsouth.net. .. > Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car > itself, and > of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and > destination > charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer > service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer > add-on > ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" coatings > or > other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.) > > When all this is added up, the drive-out price ain't too great. > Any of you had any experience getting them to waive the > "customer service" fee or any of the other crappola? It appears > from Edmunds that they are getting $500 from Honda this > month just for moving an '08 Accord. Any ideas/feedback? > Thanks! > As Nancy Reagan advised, Just Say No. In Georgia, the new car dealers all have a "Documentation/Title" line preprinted on the sales form with an amount between $295 and $595 in the $ column also preprinted. They tell you, that's part of the contract, it can't be changed and it's to get the title for you. Well horse hockey. Take the form, draw a line through that entry, initial it and hand the paper back to the sales weasel. Tell him that after your check clears, you want the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO). In Georgia, you take the MSO to the DMV office, hand them $18 and they mail you the title in a week or two. Next you take the bill of sale to the tag office five them about $10 and they hand you your nice new tag. You do have to bolt it onto the car yourself though ;-) So much for high dollar "documentation" fees. If the dealer won't agree to that approach, politely thank the man for his time and the test drive-- then get up and leave. My experience has been that somewhere between their front door and where your car is in their parking lot, the sales guy will come chasing out after you and tell you the sales manager has reconsidered..... |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
Space Chimp wrote:
> Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car > itself, and > of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and > destination > charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer > service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer add-on > ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" coatings or > other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.) It's simply "ADM" additional dealer mark-up that they call fees like "doc fee" or "dealer prep" or "closing fee" to make it appear as if it is non-negotiable. I've never seen a "customer service fee" but they can come up with all sorts of creative names. Rather than argue about them, simply subtract the fees from your offer price. Invoice price is no great deal to begin with on a Honda, so just add up all the fees and subtract them from the invoice price (if that's really what you're willing to pay). There is no shortage of Accords. What state are you in? |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
"Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com> wrote:
>When all this is added up, the drive-out price ain't too great. >Any of you had any experience getting them to waive the >"customer service" fee or any of the other crappola? I usually dicker for the bottom line price and let them fill in the blanks. Course you have to do your homework to keep from being screwed (too badly). In you case though, if you don't like the deal just walk and see what happens. If their profit is great enough they will knock the amount off. If not they will let you walk. You can always walk back later (don't wait too long) and pay the price if you love the car badly enough... |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
Find the car you want, then negociate for the bottom line price.
Dont stop with one dealer. Some are probably hungrier to make a sale than others. You can get some ideas of what the car SHOULD cost through some of the magazines or web publications which deal with auto costs. A "dealers invoice", by the way, means little or nothing with respect to the cost of the car. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
Thus spake "Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com> :
>Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car >itself, and >of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and >destination >charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer >service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer add-on >ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" coatings or >other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.) > >When all this is added up, the drive-out price ain't too great. >Any of you had any experience getting them to waive the >"customer service" fee or any of the other crappola? It appears >from Edmunds that they are getting $500 from Honda this >month just for moving an '08 Accord. Any ideas/feedback? >Thanks! > You're getting ripped off. The only "fee" I paid was the "delivery fee" and $15 messenger for title. No dealer prep. No rust proofing, clearcoat protectant, etc. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message news:mz7Ck.1186$ZP4.601@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com... > Space Chimp wrote: >> Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car >> itself, and >> of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and >> destination >> charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer >> service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer >> add-on >> ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" coatings >> or >> other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.) > > It's simply "ADM" additional dealer mark-up that they call fees like "doc > fee" or "dealer prep" or "closing fee" to make it appear as if it is > non-negotiable. I've never seen a "customer service fee" but they can come > up with all sorts of creative names. > > Rather than argue about them, simply subtract the fees from your offer > price. Invoice price is no great deal to begin with on a Honda, so just > add up all the fees and subtract them from the invoice price (if that's > really what you're willing to pay). There is no shortage of Accords. > > What state are you in? I'm in GA, Atlanta metro area. Thanks for the feedback guys, it was educational. Here's the deal. The sales guy has e-mailed me with drive-out prices: '08 Accord EX (black) $23,134 '09 Accord EX $24,043 Keep in mind these are drive-out prices. They sound good to me. I'm about to go over and take a look, and probably buy one, unless he hasn't been completely upfront with me. (BTW, cash sale so no financing, which I mentioned to him already.) |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
Space Chimp wrote:
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message > news:mz7Ck.1186$ZP4.601@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com... >> Space Chimp wrote: >>> Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car >>> itself, and >>> of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and >>> destination >>> charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer >>> service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer >>> add-on >>> ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" coatings >>> or >>> other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.) >> It's simply "ADM" additional dealer mark-up that they call fees like "doc >> fee" or "dealer prep" or "closing fee" to make it appear as if it is >> non-negotiable. I've never seen a "customer service fee" but they can come >> up with all sorts of creative names. >> >> Rather than argue about them, simply subtract the fees from your offer >> price. Invoice price is no great deal to begin with on a Honda, so just >> add up all the fees and subtract them from the invoice price (if that's >> really what you're willing to pay). There is no shortage of Accords. >> >> What state are you in? > > I'm in GA, Atlanta metro area. Thanks for the feedback guys, it > was educational. > > Here's the deal. The sales guy has e-mailed me with drive-out > prices: > > '08 Accord EX (black) $23,134 > '09 Accord EX $24,043 > > Keep in mind these are drive-out prices. They sound good > to me. I'm about to go over and take a look, and probably > buy one, unless he hasn't been completely upfront with me. > (BTW, cash sale so no financing, which I mentioned to > him already.) > > I've not bought a lot of cars from dealers (mostly beaters) but when I have bought from a dealer, I bring a calculator. Figure out what I'm willing to pay for the car, add tax and give THAT to the sales guy. I don't care if there's $700 in prep, $200 in misc fees, $4300 for a haircut for the sales manager's dog, as long as the GRAND TOTAL for the car is equal or less than what I'm willing to pay. I bought my Subaru that way - they said the $300 doc fee was non-negotiable, I told them I didn't care as long as the car was no more than $15k after tax. It came out to $15,080 and that ended up being close enough - I wanted the car and it had had the clutch replaced. (During the first test drive the clutch was slipping so badly I was wondering if my wife had forgotten how to drive and she was wondering WTF subaru did with clutches. They replaced the clutch and called me but now the price was non-negotiable, so I said, "see ya" and walked. A month later the car was still there and we worked out a price. But, you have to be willing to walk.) I have found that listing YOUR price is way easier than when they start talking "well it's $387 every 9 days for 18 years" because no two salesguys ever use the same interval, and I just want to know how much the damn car costs. Was car shopping with my mom a couple of years ago and she wanted to look at a new Hyundai Accent (blech) and it took 45 flipping minutes to answer this question "How much is the sticker price on THIS car?" Needless to say she didn't buy it...and not just because Hyundai sucks. Ray |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
"ray" <rollingviolation@domain.invalid.com> wrote in message news:SWwCk.32541$rV4.10629@newsfe03.iad... >> I'm in GA, Atlanta metro area. Thanks for the feedback guys, it >> was educational. >> >> Here's the deal. The sales guy has e-mailed me with drive-out >> prices: >> >> '08 Accord EX (black) $23,134 >> '09 Accord EX $24,043 >> >> Keep in mind these are drive-out prices. They sound good >> to me. I'm about to go over and take a look, and probably >> buy one, unless he hasn't been completely upfront with me. >> (BTW, cash sale so no financing, which I mentioned to >> him already.) > I've not bought a lot of cars from dealers (mostly beaters) but when I > have bought from a dealer, I bring a calculator. Figure out what I'm > willing to pay for the car, add tax and give THAT to the sales guy. I > don't care if there's $700 in prep, $200 in misc fees, $4300 for a haircut > for the sales manager's dog, as long as the GRAND TOTAL for the car is > equal or less than what I'm willing to pay. > > I bought my Subaru that way - they said the $300 doc fee was > non-negotiable, I told them I didn't care as long as the car was no more > than $15k after tax. It came out to $15,080 and that ended up being close > enough Yeah, and isn't it strange how the total came out just a wee bit over you max price....:) Well, let me quack about what happened to me at the dealership. Wife and I got there, and loved the black '08 Accord EX so much that we decided that was the boy we wanted. The salesman mentioned that we were getting some good stuff for free since it had a great looking spoiler, along with some pin striping. The car was a beaut, there's no doubt about it. I drove it; drove great as expected. We go to his little office, I fill out form, and even write out the check for the quoted amount. Weellllllll, the salesman then walks into another office, and stays awhile. Another dude soon shows. I'm beginning to smell the old-style bait and switch routine. And surely be, there was a bit of a problem. The young dude tells me that there was a misunderstanding and that THAT car (because of spoiler and pin striping) could not be sold at that price. It was just a mistake understand. He then told me they could get an identical car (w/o spoiler and pin striping) from a sister dlship in about two hours, and when he saw I was putting away my checkbook and beginning to walk, he added they would knock off $200 more for my trouble. Truth is, I don't think that would've been a bad deal for me at all, but I was so pissed at their tactic of waiting to tell me this at the very LAST minute that it made it moot, as far as I was concerned. We walked. I may well have walked away from a great deal, but we walked, and we don't regret it. Do you guys think I made a good decision? I'm checking with some other dealerships now. These tactics really cause me to shun them. Maybe I'm too persnikity or something, but I hate games like this. - I wanted the car and it had had the clutch replaced. > (During the first test drive the clutch was slipping so badly I was > wondering if my wife had forgotten how to drive and she was wondering WTF > subaru did with clutches. They replaced the clutch and called me but now > the price was non-negotiable, so I said, "see ya" and walked. A month > later the car was still there and we worked out a price. But, you have to > be willing to walk.) > > I have found that listing YOUR price is way easier than when they start > talking "well it's $387 every 9 days for 18 years" because no two > salesguys ever use the same interval, and I just want to know how much the > damn car costs. Was car shopping with my mom a couple of years ago and > she wanted to look at a new Hyundai Accent (blech) and it took 45 flipping > minutes to answer this question "How much is the sticker price on THIS > car?" Needless to say she didn't buy it...and not just because Hyundai > sucks. > > Ray |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
"Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com> wrote in message news:nv6Ck.38878$bx1.14582@bignews1.bellsouth.net. .. > Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car > itself, and > of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and > destination > charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer > service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer > add-on > ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" coatings > or > other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.) > > When all this is added up, the drive-out price ain't too great. > Any of you had any experience getting them to waive the > "customer service" fee or any of the other crappola? It appears > from Edmunds that they are getting $500 from Honda this > month just for moving an '08 Accord. Any ideas/feedback? > Thanks! This reminds me of the movie "Fargo" when a couple were buying a car from a dealer. William Macy was the salesman and kept pushing undercoating. While dickering over the car he would say, "let me go check it out with my manager". He would then go into his office, spit out a howdy and not even mention the deal and then go back out to the couple and tell them that the manager said this or that. It was a hoot. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
"Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com> wrote in message news:eYxCk.37800 Weellllllll, the salesman then > walks into another office, and stays awhile. Another dude > soon shows. I'm beginning to smell the old-style bait > and switch routine. And surely be, there was a bit > of a problem. The young dude tells me that there was a > misunderstanding and that THAT car (because of spoiler > and pin striping) could not be sold at that price. It was > just a mistake understand. He then told me they could get > an identical car (w/o spoiler and pin striping) from a sister > dlship in about two hours, and when he saw I was putting > away my checkbook and beginning to walk, he added they > would knock off $200 more for my trouble. Truth is, > I don't think that would've been a bad deal for me at all, > but I was so pissed at their tactic of waiting to tell me this > at the very LAST minute that it made it moot, as far as I > was concerned. We walked. Do you guys think I made a good decision? Depends on the amount of the overrun. That second carpimp was scamming you. But if it were only a couple hundred bucks or so, maybe it was a decent deal. I believe in "principle", but also you have to think in terms of dollars. I wouldnt be surprised if they called you back in a couple of days and tried to "make up". You havent burned any bridges. This is a poker game. Keep a straight face and keep in the game. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:09:08 -0400, "Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com>
wrote: > These tactics really cause me to shun them. Maybe I'm too >persnikity or something, but I hate games like this. > So do I and I would have walked out as well. If you give in that just encourages them to do the same thing to the next guy that comes in. Steve B. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
Thus spake AJ Lake <nomail@fakeaddress.com> :
>"Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com> wrote: > >>When all this is added up, the drive-out price ain't too great. >>Any of you had any experience getting them to waive the >>"customer service" fee or any of the other crappola? > >I usually dicker for the bottom line price and let them fill in the >blanks. Course you have to do your homework to keep from being screwed >(too badly). In you case though, if you don't like the deal just walk >and see what happens. If their profit is great enough they will knock >the amount off. If not they will let you walk. You can always walk >back later (don't wait too long) and pay the price if you love the car >badly enough... Yeah. I've always done that. We walk in with a folder full of papers that we've printed from all over the place. And tell them "okay, this is what the check will read". Nasty trick department: Print the comparison page from Edmunds and highlight one of the other cars. Put that on the top of the stack in your folder and take it out while you rummage through the other papers. Make him sneak a peek with it upside down to him. Sometimes it works, at the least it tells him you have a solid grasp on what you are willing to pay. And always, always walk away when things go south. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
Space Chimp wrote:
> '08 Accord EX (black) $23,134 > '09 Accord EX $24,043 Presumably that's for the V6, or it's about $2500 too high. > Keep in mind these are drive-out prices. They sound good > to me. I'm about to go over and take a look, and probably > buy one, unless he hasn't been completely upfront with me. > (BTW, cash sale so no financing, which I mentioned to > him already.) Too bad. Mentioning a cash sale was not a good move. Let them assume you'll finance, up until the last moment. Amusing about black being cheaper, as it's the same where I am. They'll advertise "6 in stock at this price" and they'll all be black, an they'll try to get $750 more for the other colors (and they'll settle for $375, at least Autowest Toyota in Fremont would. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message news:pxHCk.970$Rx.40@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com... > Space Chimp wrote: > >> '08 Accord EX (black) $23,134 >> '09 Accord EX $24,043 > > Presumably that's for the V6, or it's about $2500 too high. Hey, do tell. These were not for the V6, but the other dealerships are not willing to match these prices, and they apparently don't care if I walk. I'll be glad to pay the above if it's offered again. If not, I won't buy....don't really need the car that much anyway. > >> Keep in mind these are drive-out prices. They sound good >> to me. I'm about to go over and take a look, and probably >> buy one, unless he hasn't been completely upfront with me. >> (BTW, cash sale so no financing, which I mentioned to >> him already.) > > Too bad. Mentioning a cash sale was not a good move. Let them assume > you'll finance, up until the last moment. And you think they would have any problem backing out of the agreed to non-cash price at the last moment? > Amusing about black being cheaper, as it's the same where I am. They'll > advertise "6 in stock at this price" and they'll all be black, an they'll > try to get $750 more for the other colors (and they'll settle for $375, at > least Autowest Toyota in Fremont would. He said at first there was a black and white '08, but he later said the white one sold. We saw one of the '09's on the lot yesterday for the stated driveout price. It was a nice light green, and just off the truck. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
SMS wrote:
> > Too bad. Mentioning a cash sale was not a good move. Let them assume > you'll finance, up until the last moment. Why's that? (seriously, why?) Ray (hoping to learn a new trick) |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
In article <BTSCk.573$4K3.559@newsfe13.iad>,
ray <rollingviolation@domain.invalid.com> wrote: >SMS wrote: >> >> Too bad. Mentioning a cash sale was not a good move. Let them assume >> you'll finance, up until the last moment. > >Why's that? (seriously, why?) Because if you get the financeing thru the dealer, they make more $ on the financing than on the sale of the car. -- Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353 Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67 Canines:Val, Red, Shasta & Casey (RIP), Red & Zero, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
Thus spake richgr@panix.com (Rich Greenberg) :
>In article <BTSCk.573$4K3.559@newsfe13.iad>, >ray <rollingviolation@domain.invalid.com> wrote: >>SMS wrote: >>> >>> Too bad. Mentioning a cash sale was not a good move. Let them assume >>> you'll finance, up until the last moment. >> >>Why's that? (seriously, why?) > >Because if you get the financeing thru the dealer, they make more $ on >the financing than on the sale of the car. Not right now. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
Dillon Pyron wrote:
> Yeah. I've always done that. We walk in with a folder full of papers > that we've printed from all over the place. And tell them "okay, this > is what the check will read". The car salespeople laugh at those that come in with all those printouts and sheets thinking that it'll help. They do this every day. You do it once every 6-12 years. They especially like people that bargain up from the invoice, since selling at invoice is already a huge profit for them. Have the material, but make your price offers from memory. Always make it a non-round number and let _them_ ask how you arrived at it, don't offer the information. When you offer $16,709 rather than $16,700 it puts them on the defensive, trying to figure out where the heck you came up with that number, when in fact you made it up out of thin air. Be vague. Mumble about other dealers, other vehicles, Costco, advertisements for dealers in other metro areas, and so on. Let them talk about monthly payments, and draw their diagrams with the four boxes. Inquire about financing, extended warranties, pin-striping, gold packages, undercoating, glass etching, fabric guard, digital ash trays, alarms, etc. Bring a sandwich and ask them to get you a complimentary soda. Watch "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2bpsyfJJt4". |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
Space Chimp wrote:
> And you think they would have any problem backing out of the agreed > to non-cash price at the last moment? Well legally they can't back out if you decide not to finance, but they find ways to do so. This happened to me, and I never told them I was going to finance to begin with. It was an "all in stock at this price" ad, and clearly what they really meant was "all in stock at this price" if you finance or buy a warranty. Eventually we prevailed, but it was a real pain in the butt. The other thing you can do is to ensure that there is no prepayment penalties on the loan, and finance it, then pay it off right away. You don't even have to wait for the payment coupons to be sent to you, you can find out the loan number, the balance, and send them an electronic check. Also remember to make as big of a down payment as they'll allow with a rewards credit card. Last time I bought a car the max was $5000. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
Rich Greenberg wrote:
> In article <BTSCk.573$4K3.559@newsfe13.iad>, > ray <rollingviolation@domain.invalid.com> wrote: >> SMS wrote: >>> Too bad. Mentioning a cash sale was not a good move. Let them assume >>> you'll finance, up until the last moment. >> Why's that? (seriously, why?) > > Because if you get the financeing thru the dealer, they make more $ on > the financing than on the sale of the car. Yes, especially if it's through their own financing companies rather than through the manufacturer's special rate financing. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message news:QNjDk.1393$x%.484@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com... > Space Chimp wrote: > >> And you think they would have any problem backing out of the agreed >> to non-cash price at the last moment? > > Well legally they can't back out if you decide not to finance, but they > find ways to do so. This happened to me, and I never told them I was going > to finance to begin with. It was an "all in stock at this price" ad, and > clearly what they really meant was "all in stock at this price" if you > finance or buy a warranty. Eventually we prevailed, but it was a real pain > in the butt. I know a lot of those guys are sleazy liars, but they also have to make a living. I don't want to end up looking as bad as some of them, with tricky tactics. I ended up paying $24,238 total driveout price for an '09 Accord EX automatic, and it also had some of the dealer add-ons. According to Edmunds at least, I did okay I think. What the hell, we love the car. (We didn't buy from the original dealership I was complaining about though.) |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:05:57 -0400, "Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com>
wrote: > >"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message >news:QNjDk.1393$x%.484@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com... >> Space Chimp wrote: >> >>> And you think they would have any problem backing out of the agreed >>> to non-cash price at the last moment? >> >> Well legally they can't back out if you decide not to finance, but they >> find ways to do so. This happened to me, and I never told them I was going >> to finance to begin with. It was an "all in stock at this price" ad, and >> clearly what they really meant was "all in stock at this price" if you >> finance or buy a warranty. Eventually we prevailed, but it was a real pain >> in the butt. > >I know a lot of those guys are sleazy liars, but they also have to >make a living. I don't want to end up looking as bad as some >of them, with tricky tactics. I ended up paying $24,238 total >driveout price for an '09 Accord EX automatic, and it also >had some of the dealer add-ons. According to Edmunds at >least, I did okay I think. What the hell, we love the car. >(We didn't buy from the original dealership I was complaining >about though.) > The thing about dealerships is that they're a dime a dozen, just like every other commodity in the world. If you don't like one for any reason, walk away and don't look back. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
You have received good advice. Use Edmunds to come up with what you are
willing to pay and then figure the sales tax. If the dealer agrees, he should write up a sales agreement that comes up to that total. That's what you sign and he/she signs. You then have a contract. When you make an offer, the sales person will give the BS that he has to have his sales manager review it. So the sales dweeb goes in the backroom, spaknks hsis monkey, and comes back with a counter offer with some BS that the color you want is in high demand. Tell hm no deal. The first Honda I bought in 1979 was in such high demand I paid $500 over sticker and had to take whatever color that came in. So I got the color no one wanted - beige. When I went to pick up the car, the saleman gave me a new contract to sign that was a couple of bucks higher than the original. The salesman said it was for gas in the tank. I told him we had an agreement and he was welcome to take some of the gas out of the tank. Safe to say, I drove it away at the original contract price. But the dealer made an extra $500 on the deal anyway. "Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com> wrote in message news:n4sCk.40207$vX2.14549@bignews6.bellsouth.net. .. > > "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message > news:mz7Ck.1186$ZP4.601@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com... >> Space Chimp wrote: >>> Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car >>> itself, and >>> of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and >>> destination >>> charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer >>> service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer >>> add-on >>> ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" >>> coatings or >>> other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.) >> >> It's simply "ADM" additional dealer mark-up that they call fees like "doc >> fee" or "dealer prep" or "closing fee" to make it appear as if it is >> non-negotiable. I've never seen a "customer service fee" but they can >> come up with all sorts of creative names. >> >> Rather than argue about them, simply subtract the fees from your offer >> price. Invoice price is no great deal to begin with on a Honda, so just >> add up all the fees and subtract them from the invoice price (if that's >> really what you're willing to pay). There is no shortage of Accords. >> >> What state are you in? > > I'm in GA, Atlanta metro area. Thanks for the feedback guys, it > was educational. > > Here's the deal. The sales guy has e-mailed me with drive-out > prices: > > '08 Accord EX (black) $23,134 > '09 Accord EX $24,043 > > Keep in mind these are drive-out prices. They sound good > to me. I'm about to go over and take a look, and probably > buy one, unless he hasn't been completely upfront with me. > (BTW, cash sale so no financing, which I mentioned to > him already.) > > |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message news:QNjDk.1393$x%.484@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com... > Space Chimp wrote: > >> And you think they would have any problem backing out of the agreed >> to non-cash price at the last moment? > > Well legally they can't back out if you decide not to finance, but they > find ways to do so. Depends on the situation. Before the dotted lines are signed, several lines of management can veto the sale. Once a deal is made and authenticated, you have legal grounds for a lawsuit. Really, guys, it isnt this difficult. These people want to sell cars. Find someone you can work with. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message news:PIjDk.1391 > > The car salespeople laugh at those that come in with all those printouts > and sheets thinking that it'll help. They do this every day. You do > it once every 6-12 years. They especially like people that bargain up from > the invoice, since selling at invoice is already a huge profit for them. Buying a car at the best price is like playing a poker hand. You will NEVER get a $25,000 car for $11, 000. Be smart, be reasonable. The invoice price, as I posted earlier, is total bullshit. It is NOT an invoice price. If you cant afford a new car, buy Cuhulin's old van. If you CAN, negociate for the best deal you can get and then go with it. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
not one of you "experts" posted the one idea that works well, since
the advent of the WWW, most dealers have internet sales depts. These guys will respond to internet queries and you aren't limited to shopping for a car by geography. I have saved tons of money by shopping for a car online and then driving 100-300 miles for delivery. I live in FLA and bought my last car in NJ, they were willing to ship the car as part of the deal and I saved over 6k from what my local dealerships wanted for the car. The moral to the story is that you do't need to run around to the dealerships, sit there and suffer their silly tactics when you can sit at home at shop for the car you want from any dealership in the country and possibly find a great deal without leaving your house. __________________________________________ Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
On 9/29/08 8:02 AM, in article 54k1e4l39pgr7uo54qh6shfmqglno8mhfn@4ax.com,
"jdoe" <jdoe@aol.com> wrote: > not one of you "experts" posted the one idea that works well, since > the advent of the WWW, most dealers have internet sales depts. > These guys will respond to internet queries and you aren't limited to > shopping for a car by geography. I have saved tons of money by > shopping for a car online and then driving 100-300 miles for delivery. > I live in FLA and bought my last car in NJ, they were willing to ship > the car as part of the deal and I saved over 6k from what my local > dealerships wanted for the car. > The moral to the story is that you do't need to run around to the > dealerships, sit there and suffer their silly tactics when you can sit > at home at shop for the car you want from any dealership in the > country and possibly find a great deal without leaving your house. > > __________________________________________ > Never argue with an idiot. > They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I have had luck in the past getting the best internet quote from wherever and then taking it to the local dealer to match or beat. They usually will. This past summer when I was in the market for a new car I found five of six dealers queried did not even bother to respond to requests for internet quotes. I don't know if they are wising up to it or just too lazy to be bothered. The one thing I always do is deal to the bottom line - the number I am going to write on my check. If they want to load on this that or the other gratuitous fee, its coming out of somebody's commission. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
E Meyer <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote:
> On 9/29/08 8:02 AM, in article > 54k1e4l39pgr7uo54qh6shfmqglno8mhfn@4ax.com, "jdoe" <jdoe@aol.com> > wrote: > >> not one of you "experts" posted the one idea that works well, since >> the advent of the WWW, most dealers have internet sales depts. >> These guys will respond to internet queries and you aren't limited to >> shopping for a car by geography. I have saved tons of money by >> shopping for a car online and then driving 100-300 miles for >> delivery. I live in FLA and bought my last car in NJ, they were >> willing to ship the car as part of the deal and I saved over 6k from >> what my local dealerships wanted for the car. >> The moral to the story is that you do't need to run around to the >> dealerships, sit there and suffer their silly tactics when you can >> sit at home at shop for the car you want from any dealership in the >> country and possibly find a great deal without leaving your house. >> >> __________________________________________ >> Never argue with an idiot. >> They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. > > I have had luck in the past getting the best internet quote from > wherever and then taking it to the local dealer to match or beat. > They usually will. Yeah, thats what I did. The local dealer did claim that he was paying a slightly higher delivery charge for the cars than those in the state capitals were paying and that turned out to be correct and when that small increase was a lot less than it would have cost me to fly to the state capital to pick up the car, it was well worth getting it locally and not risking them trying to play silly buggers on warranty claims. Turned out that I didnt have any warranty claims at all, not one. > This past summer when I was in the market for a new car I found five > of six dealers queried did not even bother to respond to requests for > internet quotes. I don't know if they are wising up to it or just > too lazy to be bothered. > The one thing I always do is deal to the bottom line - the number I > am going to write on my check. If they want to load on this that or > the other gratuitous fee, its coming out of somebody's commission. |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
SMS (scharf.steven@geemail.com) writes:
> Dillon Pyron wrote: > >> Yeah. I've always done that. We walk in with a folder full of papers >> that we've printed from all over the place. And tell them "okay, this >> is what the check will read". > > The car salespeople laugh at those that come in with all those printouts > and sheets thinking that it'll help. They do this every day. You > do it once every 6-12 years. They especially like people that bargain up > from the invoice, since selling at invoice is already a huge profit for > them. > > Have the material, but make your price offers from memory. Always make > it a non-round number and let _them_ ask how you arrived at it, don't > offer the information. When you offer $16,709 rather than $16,700 it > puts them on the defensive, trying to figure out where the heck you came > up with that number, when in fact you made it up out of thin air. Be > vague. Mumble about other dealers, other vehicles, Costco, > advertisements for dealers in other metro areas, and so on. > > Let them talk about monthly payments, and draw their diagrams with the > four boxes. Inquire about financing, extended warranties, pin-striping, > gold packages, undercoating, glass etching, fabric guard, digital ash > trays, alarms, etc. Bring a sandwich and ask them to get you a > complimentary soda. I hear what you're saying. Just a small question regarding the sandwich. Since the sandwich would imply an anticipation of a marathon by the shopper, would you recommend a sandwich which is heavy on the garlic, or a sandwich which is devoid of garlic? I'm thinking garlic might speed things up a little, especially for the shopper who is impaired in the ability to recognize other people's "personal space". > > Watch "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2bpsyfJJt4". |
Re: Need feedback on new car purchase
On Oct 2, 4:29 pm, cf...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart) wrote:
> SMS (scharf.ste...@geemail.com) writes: > > Dillon Pyron wrote: > > >> Yeah. I've always done that. We walk in with a folder full of papers > >> that we've printed from all over the place. And tell them "okay, this > >> is what the check will read". > > > The car salespeople laugh at those that come in with all those printouts > > and sheets thinking that it'll help. They do this every day. You > > do it once every 6-12 years. They especially like people that bargain up > > from the invoice, since selling at invoice is already a huge profit for > > them. > > > Have the material, but make your price offers from memory. Always make > > it a non-round number and let _them_ ask how you arrived at it, don't > > offer the information. When you offer $16,709 rather than $16,700 it > > puts them on the defensive, trying to figure out where the heck you came > > up with that number, when in fact you made it up out of thin air. Be > > vague. Mumble about other dealers, other vehicles, Costco, > > advertisements for dealers in other metro areas, and so on. > > > Let them talk about monthly payments, and draw their diagrams with the > > four boxes. Inquire about financing, extended warranties, pin-striping, > > gold packages, undercoating, glass etching, fabric guard, digital ash > > trays, alarms, etc. Bring a sandwich and ask them to get you a > > complimentary soda. > > I hear what you're saying. Just a small question regarding the sandwich. > Since the sandwich would imply an anticipation of a marathon by the > shopper, would you recommend a sandwich which is heavy on the garlic, or a > sandwich which is devoid of garlic? > > I'm thinking garlic might speed things up a little, especially for the > shopper who is impaired in the ability to recognize other people's > "personal space". > > > > > Watch "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2bpsyfJJt4". I'm not sure it would make much difference. Most of them talk to you for 30 seconds or so then disappear for 10 minutes to "run it by the manager". |
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