New Car "Fair" Offer Questions, Please
 

Hello,

Thank you for the previous help.

Am in my early 70's now, and guess this will be my last new car, probably.
So please put up with my naive questions.

Been a long time since I had one, and not looking forward to the experience
of bargaining with them. Think I want a 2009 Accord.

As a general rule of thumb:

What percentage under the MSRP is a "fair" price ?

Or, what is a better criterion to use for your offer ?
Would this be perhaps the Dealer Invoice Price ?
If so, where would one locate it ?

What percentage over this would be a fair offer ?

I understand that there are all sorts of Dealer hold-back and incentives, so
even this
dealer invoice price probably doesn't reflect very well what the car
actually cost the dealer. But, is this what to use ? How much over to go ?

BTW: surprised to see that practically all their models seem to come
standard with a moon roof.
Never even thought about having one, frankly.
Most folks like them ?

Any leakage or other problems with them, or have they ironed out all these
sort of problems by now ?

Thank you very much.

Bob

Re: New Car "Fair" Offer Questions, Please
 

"Robert11" <rgsros@notme.com> wrote in message
news:Tsqdnfo5h8YJCATVnZ2dnUVZ_rzinZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> Hello,
>
> Thank you for the previous help.
>
> Am in my early 70's now, and guess this will be my last new car, probably.
> So please put up with my naive questions.
>
> Been a long time since I had one, and not looking forward to the
> experience of bargaining with them. Think I want a 2009 Accord.
>
> As a general rule of thumb:
>
> What percentage under the MSRP is a "fair" price ?
>
> Or, what is a better criterion to use for your offer ?
> Would this be perhaps the Dealer Invoice Price ?
> If so, where would one locate it ?
>
> What percentage over this would be a fair offer ?
>
> I understand that there are all sorts of Dealer hold-back and incentives,
> so even this
> dealer invoice price probably doesn't reflect very well what the car
> actually cost the dealer. But, is this what to use ? How much over to go
> ?
>
> BTW: surprised to see that practically all their models seem to come
> standard with a moon roof.
> Never even thought about having one, frankly.
> Most folks like them ?
>
> Any leakage or other problems with them, or have they ironed out all these
> sort of problems by now ?
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Bob
>

A few hundred bucks over the real cost to the dealer is the target. Think
paying above this rather than "down" from MSRP.

Consumer Reports has a service where for about $11, you can get the real
numbers (better than KBB/Edmunds) and current promos and holdbacks.

If you are a member of Sam's Club (or I guess Costco too), log onto their
website and look at the car purchasing section. You plug in the
make/model/accessories you want and they quote a price and a local dealer
who will sell it to you at that price--- which is pretty low.

I bought my 07 Accord V6 Sedan EX-L by calling a dealer closer to my house--
but not on the Sam's program-- and telling him the price I had from the
program and he met it with no problem.

Re: New Car "Fair" Offer Questions, Please
 

In article <Tsqdnfo5h8YJCATVnZ2dnUVZ_rzinZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Robert11" <rgsros@notme.com> wrote:

> Been a long time since I had one, and not looking forward to the experience
> of bargaining with them. Think I want a 2009 Accord.
>
> As a general rule of thumb:
>
> What percentage under the MSRP is a "fair" price ?

Nice car.

Start with invoice price with destination charge included. Research to
see if there are any factory incentives; for example, there's a $2500
factory to dealer incentive for Odyssey. See if there's anything there
for any Accords. For 2009, probably not; for 2008, maybe. Are you sure
you need an 09 Accord? Or can you do with an 08? There'll be no
difference in the car itself, and I don't think you care about model
year.

So, invoice (with destination) minus any incentives. Now take out the
holdback as well; that's 2% of the list price.

Invoice minus incentives minus holdback.

Now add back in $200 for profit. Then pay tax and their stupid $100
"title/documentation" fee, and that's your bottom line number. Don't
let them get away with charging more than $100 for the "documentation"
fee, don't pay for any add-ons, nothing.

For 2008 Accord, I don't see any incentives other than financing rates,
which are intended to move the 08 models out. So, 2008 Accord 4
cylinder automatic trans with leather, invoice $24,098. Holdback is
probably $517; taking that out, you get $23,581. Add a couple hundred
dollars for profit, come up with $23,781 plus tax and title.

Edmunds says that's about $1000 less than the average selling price in
my area. You may not get it, but it's the place to start. Be prepared
to bargain up a couple hundred dollars, but come as close as you can to
that. They need to sell cars.

Don't trade your car in, if you have one. They'll use that as a way to
make back the money you're not giving them on the new car sale.




> BTW: surprised to see that practically all their models seem to come
> standard with a moon roof.
> Never even thought about having one, frankly.
> Most folks like them ?
>
> Any leakage or other problems with them, or have they ironed out all these
> sort of problems by now ?

All ironed out by now. I had a 92 Civic with a moonroof; loved it.
Honda knows their stuff.

Re: New Car "Fair" Offer Questions, Please
 

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 08:59:46 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <Tsqdnfo5h8YJCATVnZ2dnUVZ_rzinZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "Robert11" <rgsros@notme.com> wrote:
>
>> Been a long time since I had one, and not looking forward to the experience
>> of bargaining with them. Think I want a 2009 Accord.
>>
>> As a general rule of thumb:
>>
>> What percentage under the MSRP is a "fair" price ?
>
>Nice car.
>
>Start with invoice price with destination charge included. Research to
>see if there are any factory incentives; for example, there's a $2500
>factory to dealer incentive for Odyssey. See if there's anything there
>for any Accords. For 2009, probably not; for 2008, maybe. Are you sure
>you need an 09 Accord? Or can you do with an 08? There'll be no
>difference in the car itself, and I don't think you care about model
>year.
>
>So, invoice (with destination) minus any incentives. Now take out the
>holdback as well; that's 2% of the list price.
>
>Invoice minus incentives minus holdback.
>
>Now add back in $200 for profit. Then pay tax and their stupid $100
>"title/documentation" fee, and that's your bottom line number. Don't
>let them get away with charging more than $100 for the "documentation"
>fee, don't pay for any add-ons, nothing.
>
>For 2008 Accord, I don't see any incentives other than financing rates,
>which are intended to move the 08 models out. So, 2008 Accord 4
>cylinder automatic trans with leather, invoice $24,098. Holdback is
>probably $517; taking that out, you get $23,581. Add a couple hundred
>dollars for profit, come up with $23,781 plus tax and title.
>
>Edmunds says that's about $1000 less than the average selling price in
>my area. You may not get it, but it's the place to start. Be prepared
>to bargain up a couple hundred dollars, but come as close as you can to
>that. They need to sell cars.
>
>Don't trade your car in, if you have one. They'll use that as a way to
>make back the money you're not giving them on the new car sale.
>
>
>
>
>> BTW: surprised to see that practically all their models seem to come
>> standard with a moon roof.
>> Never even thought about having one, frankly.
>> Most folks like them ?
>>
>> Any leakage or other problems with them, or have they ironed out all these
>> sort of problems by now ?
>
>All ironed out by now. I had a 92 Civic with a moonroof; loved it.
>Honda knows their stuff.


I'll chime in with a few common problems people have been having on
08's

1) Squeaking rear brakes -- most have been fixed by applying more
molykote grease to the shims.

2) Front lights dim significantly when A/C compressor comes on or fans
come on. It is more than the usual on any other previous Accord that I
have seen.

3) Driver's door handle sometimes won't open. There is a TSB on how to
correct this.

4) Rear shelf rattling

5) Carpet is very cheap. My sister wore out a spot within the first
three moths. Had the carpet replaced under warranty. Even on her 10
year old Elantra she never had this problem.

6) Gas mileage. My sister has been averaging about 24 MPG on mostly
suburban driving. People that have had the previous generation Accords
say that they had better gas mileage on the gen 7 than on the 8th
generation.

The only issue she hasn't experienced is #4.

While they are minor problems my sister personally hasn't been pleased
by them. Granted it is first year production problems but still.

Re: New Car "Fair" Offer Questions, Please
 

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:22:24 -0400, nick@nowhere.com wrote:

>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 08:59:46 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
><elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <Tsqdnfo5h8YJCATVnZ2dnUVZ_rzinZ2d@comcast.com>,
>> "Robert11" <rgsros@notme.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Been a long time since I had one, and not looking forward to the experience
>>> of bargaining with them. Think I want a 2009 Accord.
>>>
>>> As a general rule of thumb:
>>>
>>> What percentage under the MSRP is a "fair" price ?
>>
>>Nice car.
>>
>>Start with invoice price with destination charge included. Research to
>>see if there are any factory incentives; for example, there's a $2500
>>factory to dealer incentive for Odyssey. See if there's anything there
>>for any Accords. For 2009, probably not; for 2008, maybe. Are you sure
>>you need an 09 Accord? Or can you do with an 08? There'll be no
>>difference in the car itself, and I don't think you care about model
>>year.
>>
>>So, invoice (with destination) minus any incentives. Now take out the
>>holdback as well; that's 2% of the list price.
>>
>>Invoice minus incentives minus holdback.
>>
>>Now add back in $200 for profit. Then pay tax and their stupid $100
>>"title/documentation" fee, and that's your bottom line number. Don't
>>let them get away with charging more than $100 for the "documentation"
>>fee, don't pay for any add-ons, nothing.
>>
>>For 2008 Accord, I don't see any incentives other than financing rates,
>>which are intended to move the 08 models out. So, 2008 Accord 4
>>cylinder automatic trans with leather, invoice $24,098. Holdback is
>>probably $517; taking that out, you get $23,581. Add a couple hundred
>>dollars for profit, come up with $23,781 plus tax and title.
>>
>>Edmunds says that's about $1000 less than the average selling price in
>>my area. You may not get it, but it's the place to start. Be prepared
>>to bargain up a couple hundred dollars, but come as close as you can to
>>that. They need to sell cars.
>>
>>Don't trade your car in, if you have one. They'll use that as a way to
>>make back the money you're not giving them on the new car sale.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> BTW: surprised to see that practically all their models seem to come
>>> standard with a moon roof.
>>> Never even thought about having one, frankly.
>>> Most folks like them ?
>>>
>>> Any leakage or other problems with them, or have they ironed out all these
>>> sort of problems by now ?
>>
>>All ironed out by now. I had a 92 Civic with a moonroof; loved it.
>>Honda knows their stuff.
>
>
>I'll chime in with a few common problems people have been having on
>08's
>
>1) Squeaking rear brakes -- most have been fixed by applying more
>molykote grease to the shims.
>
>2) Front lights dim significantly when A/C compressor comes on or fans
>come on. It is more than the usual on any other previous Accord that I
>have seen.
>
>3) Driver's door handle sometimes won't open. There is a TSB on how to
>correct this.
>
>4) Rear shelf rattling
>
>5) Carpet is very cheap. My sister wore out a spot within the first
>three moths. Had the carpet replaced under warranty. Even on her 10
>year old Elantra she never had this problem.
>
>6) Gas mileage. My sister has been averaging about 24 MPG on mostly
>suburban driving. People that have had the previous generation Accords
>say that they had better gas mileage on the gen 7 than on the 8th
>generation.
>
>The only issue she hasn't experienced is #4.
>
>While they are minor problems my sister personally hasn't been pleased
>by them. Granted it is first year production problems but still.


One major problem that is a dealbreaker for me and I forgot to mention
is that in the 08 Accord you have a difficult time seeing through the
passenger's rear window. If the back of the seat is fully upright, it
most likely is parallel to the side panel in the car. The gap between
the headrests is not enough to see through. I have to say that the
problem isn't just related to the design of the Accord. I have
experienced the same problem in the 08 Altima but not in the 09
Sonata.

I'm looking for a car and sadly have been disappointed by both the
current Accord and Civic. I would like to stick with what I know what
I can repair and may be looking at an 06 Accord, otherwise it'll be a
Camry or Sonata.