John

Hi To All:

I just had a lot of work done on the brake system of my '92 four door
Accord, but am having two new problems that I would like to understand
before I take the car back to the dealer:

1) I have to press unusually hard on the brake to get the car
to stop when rolling (to a stop light, stop sign, etc.)

2) I smell a strong burning odor (like burning tar) from under
the car when parking it after driving on the hiway.

Does anyone know what could be causing these issues? The work I
had done was as follows: 1) replaced rear cylinder drums 2) replaced
master cylinder 3) replaced ball joints 4) replaced front pads and
machined rotors 5) replaced rear shoes and machined drums.
Thanks for any help on what this could be. - John

motsco_ _

John wrote:
> Hi To All:
>
> I just had a lot of work done on the brake system of my '92 four door
> Accord, but am having two new problems that I would like to understand
> before I take the car back to the dealer:
>
> 1) I have to press unusually hard on the brake to get the car
> to stop when rolling (to a stop light, stop sign, etc.)
>
> 2) I smell a strong burning odor (like burning tar) from under
> the car when parking it after driving on the hiway.
>
> Does anyone know what could be causing these issues? The work I
> had done was as follows: 1) replaced rear cylinder drums 2) replaced
> master cylinder 3) replaced ball joints 4) replaced front pads and
> machined rotors 5) replaced rear shoes and machined drums.
> Thanks for any help on what this could be. - John


==========================

I'll bet your car also feels like you're carrying a bunch of cargo as
well, like no get-up-and-go? Fuel mileage is down the toilet too, right?

It sounds like they failed to get the adjustment exact, so your power
brakes are on all the time, and burning up your pads, shoes, disks, and
drums like crazy. That's why you can't get your brakes to work when you
need them. It's called brake 'fade' because really (smoking) hot brakes
just can't stop you very well.

You've probably got a big fight on your hands, so you'll need an
alternate witness to prove that the shop now owes you new pads, shoes,
rotors, drums, maybe piston kits, maybe caliper rebuilds. If you've only
put 50 miles on it, just get the master cylinder removed and adjusted to
correct the problem. If 2,000+ miles, find an expert you can take for a
(possibly paid) spin, and show him how it smokes.

Fight the original guy if he won't correct the (very dangerous) error.

'Curly'

John

Wow, Curly, thanks for the information! That sounds pretty disturbing.
I've only put 10 miles on the car since I just had the work done
yesterday, so do you think it would be OK to just have the brakes
re-adjusted correctly, without having to replace anything new?

I am a bit surprised that the mechanic didn't catch these problems
on the test drive, not to mention that he says he's got 20+ years
experience AND works at a Honda dealership. I'm in a new area
and so this was the first time I dealt with these guys - the work
was about $1200 USD (I'm in Canada). I guess its time to find
a new dealership. Thanks again. - John


On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 10:13:16 -0600, "motsco_ _" <"motsco_
_"@interbaun.com> wrote:

>John wrote:
>> Hi To All:
>>
>> I just had a lot of work done on the brake system of my '92 four door
>> Accord, but am having two new problems that I would like to understand
>> before I take the car back to the dealer:
>>
>> 1) I have to press unusually hard on the brake to get the car
>> to stop when rolling (to a stop light, stop sign, etc.)
>>
>> 2) I smell a strong burning odor (like burning tar) from under
>> the car when parking it after driving on the hiway.
>>
>> Does anyone know what could be causing these issues? The work I
>> had done was as follows: 1) replaced rear cylinder drums 2) replaced
>> master cylinder 3) replaced ball joints 4) replaced front pads and
>> machined rotors 5) replaced rear shoes and machined drums.
>> Thanks for any help on what this could be. - John
>
>
>==========================
>
>I'll bet your car also feels like you're carrying a bunch of cargo as
>well, like no get-up-and-go? Fuel mileage is down the toilet too, right?
>
>It sounds like they failed to get the adjustment exact, so your power
>brakes are on all the time, and burning up your pads, shoes, disks, and
>drums like crazy. That's why you can't get your brakes to work when you
>need them. It's called brake 'fade' because really (smoking) hot brakes
>just can't stop you very well.
>
>You've probably got a big fight on your hands, so you'll need an
>alternate witness to prove that the shop now owes you new pads, shoes,
>rotors, drums, maybe piston kits, maybe caliper rebuilds. If you've only
>put 50 miles on it, just get the master cylinder removed and adjusted to
>correct the problem. If 2,000+ miles, find an expert you can take for a
>(possibly paid) spin, and show him how it smokes.
>
>Fight the original guy if he won't correct the (very dangerous) error.
>
>'Curly'

JXStern

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 13:09:33 -0400, John <John@Home.com> wrote:
>I am a bit surprised that the mechanic didn't catch these problems
>on the test drive, not to mention that he says he's got 20+ years
>experience AND works at a Honda dealership.

What does he *do* at the Honda dealership?

I gather you did not actually have this done in the dealer's shop.

J.

John

Hi J.:

What does he do? He's a mechanic. And yes, I did have this done
at the Honda dealership. I gather you guys think this mechanic is
not too good. I agree. My only hope is that I can fix this with just
a simple adjustment instead of having to replace anything. - John

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 17:14:15 GMT, JXStern <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net>
wrote:

>On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 13:09:33 -0400, John <John@Home.com> wrote:
>>I am a bit surprised that the mechanic didn't catch these problems
>>on the test drive, not to mention that he says he's got 20+ years
>>experience AND works at a Honda dealership.
>
>What does he *do* at the Honda dealership?
>
>I gather you did not actually have this done in the dealer's shop.
>
>J.

motsco_ _

John wrote:
> Wow, Curly, thanks for the information! That sounds pretty disturbing.
> I've only put 10 miles on the car since I just had the work done
> yesterday, so do you think it would be OK to just have the brakes
> re-adjusted correctly, without having to replace anything new?
---------
They'll slip the master cylinder off and correct the adjustment.
Hopefully you don't have any pulsation problems because of warping the
rotors with such high heat. Was the car acting 'guttless' like I asked?

In Alberta, the aftermarket shops that specialize in Asian models have
White Pages ads that say "Honda repair by XXX and sons" to draw in the
Honda customers. Good trick.
----------
> I am a bit surprised that the mechanic didn't catch these problems
> on the test drive, not to mention that he says he's got 20+ years
> experience AND works at a Honda dealership. I'm in a new area
> and so this was the first time I dealt with these guys - the work
> was about $1200 USD (I'm in Canada). I guess its time to find
> a new dealership. Thanks again. - John
>
>
> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 10:13:16 -0600, "motsco_ _" <"motsco_
> _"@interbaun.com> wrote:
>
>
>>John wrote:
>>
>>>Hi To All:
>>>
>>>I just had a lot of work done on the brake system of my '92 four door
>>>Accord, but am having two new problems that I would like to understand
>>>before I take the car back to the dealer:
>>>
>>> 1) I have to press unusually hard on the brake to get the car
>>> to stop when rolling (to a stop light, stop sign, etc.)
>>>
>>> 2) I smell a strong burning odor (like burning tar) from under
>>> the car when parking it after driving on the hiway.
>>>
>>>Does anyone know what could be causing these issues? The work I
>>>had done was as follows: 1) replaced rear cylinder drums 2) replaced
>>>master cylinder 3) replaced ball joints 4) replaced front pads and
>>>machined rotors 5) replaced rear shoes and machined drums.
>>>Thanks for any help on what this could be. - John
>>
>>
>>==========================
>>
>>I'll bet your car also feels like you're carrying a bunch of cargo as
>>well, like no get-up-and-go? Fuel mileage is down the toilet too, right?
>>
>>It sounds like they failed to get the adjustment exact, so your power
>>brakes are on all the time, and burning up your pads, shoes, disks, and
>>drums like crazy. That's why you can't get your brakes to work when you
>>need them. It's called brake 'fade' because really (smoking) hot brakes
>>just can't stop you very well.
>>
>>You've probably got a big fight on your hands, so you'll need an
>>alternate witness to prove that the shop now owes you new pads, shoes,
>>rotors, drums, maybe piston kits, maybe caliper rebuilds. If you've only
>>put 50 miles on it, just get the master cylinder removed and adjusted to
>>correct the problem. If 2,000+ miles, find an expert you can take for a
>>(possibly paid) spin, and show him how it smokes.
>>
>>Fight the original guy if he won't correct the (very dangerous) error.
>>
>>'Curly'

John

Hi Curly:

Yes, the car does feel like I'm pulling some kind of "invisible" load,
and it drags and seems sluggish. The Honda dealership I had this done
at shall remain nameless, but its one of the biggest in the Toronto
area. Of course, that doesn't mean they won't try to rip people off. I
*hope* this was an honest mistake on the part of the mechanic, but it
seems like a pretty serious error. Thanks for telling me about the
possibility of damage to the rotors due to high heat -- I'll keep my
fingers crossed that they are OK. - John

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 11:58:08 -0600, "motsco_ _" <"motsco_
_"@interbaun.com> wrote:

>John wrote:
>> Wow, Curly, thanks for the information! That sounds pretty disturbing.
>> I've only put 10 miles on the car since I just had the work done
>> yesterday, so do you think it would be OK to just have the brakes
>> re-adjusted correctly, without having to replace anything new?
>---------
>They'll slip the master cylinder off and correct the adjustment.
>Hopefully you don't have any pulsation problems because of warping the
>rotors with such high heat. Was the car acting 'guttless' like I asked?
>
>In Alberta, the aftermarket shops that specialize in Asian models have
>White Pages ads that say "Honda repair by XXX and sons" to draw in the
>Honda customers. Good trick.
>----------
>> I am a bit surprised that the mechanic didn't catch these problems
>> on the test drive, not to mention that he says he's got 20+ years
>> experience AND works at a Honda dealership. I'm in a new area
>> and so this was the first time I dealt with these guys - the work
>> was about $1200 USD (I'm in Canada). I guess its time to find
>> a new dealership. Thanks again. - John
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 10:13:16 -0600, "motsco_ _" <"motsco_
>> _"@interbaun.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>John wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi To All:
>>>>
>>>>I just had a lot of work done on the brake system of my '92 four door
>>>>Accord, but am having two new problems that I would like to understand
>>>>before I take the car back to the dealer:
>>>>
>>>> 1) I have to press unusually hard on the brake to get the car
>>>> to stop when rolling (to a stop light, stop sign, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> 2) I smell a strong burning odor (like burning tar) from under
>>>> the car when parking it after driving on the hiway.
>>>>
>>>>Does anyone know what could be causing these issues? The work I
>>>>had done was as follows: 1) replaced rear cylinder drums 2) replaced
>>>>master cylinder 3) replaced ball joints 4) replaced front pads and
>>>>machined rotors 5) replaced rear shoes and machined drums.
>>>>Thanks for any help on what this could be. - John
>>>
>>>
>>>==========================
>>>
>>>I'll bet your car also feels like you're carrying a bunch of cargo as
>>>well, like no get-up-and-go? Fuel mileage is down the toilet too, right?
>>>
>>>It sounds like they failed to get the adjustment exact, so your power
>>>brakes are on all the time, and burning up your pads, shoes, disks, and
>>>drums like crazy. That's why you can't get your brakes to work when you
>>>need them. It's called brake 'fade' because really (smoking) hot brakes
>>>just can't stop you very well.
>>>
>>>You've probably got a big fight on your hands, so you'll need an
>>>alternate witness to prove that the shop now owes you new pads, shoes,
>>>rotors, drums, maybe piston kits, maybe caliper rebuilds. If you've only
>>>put 50 miles on it, just get the master cylinder removed and adjusted to
>>>correct the problem. If 2,000+ miles, find an expert you can take for a
>>>(possibly paid) spin, and show him how it smokes.
>>>
>>>Fight the original guy if he won't correct the (very dangerous) error.
>>>
>>>'Curly'

Chip Stein

> Hi Curly:
>
> Yes, the car does feel like I'm pulling some kind of "invisible" load,
> and it drags and seems sluggish. The Honda dealership I had this done
> at shall remain nameless, but its one of the biggest in the Toronto
> area. Of course, that doesn't mean they won't try to rip people off. I
> *hope* this was an honest mistake on the part of the mechanic, but it
> seems like a pretty serious error. Thanks for telling me about the
> possibility of damage to the rotors due to high heat -- I'll keep my
> fingers crossed that they are OK. - John


put the car in neutral and try to push it. it may be an adjustment
issue or it may be a crappy resurface issue. or jack up the car and
turn each wheel by hand, if you can't then it's an adjustment
issue.
Chip

motsco_ _

Chip Stein wrote:
>>Hi Curly:
>>
>>Yes, the car does feel like I'm pulling some kind of "invisible" load,
>>and it drags and seems sluggish. The Honda dealership I had this done
>>at shall remain nameless, but its one of the biggest in the Toronto
>>area. Of course, that doesn't mean they won't try to rip people off. I
>>*hope* this was an honest mistake on the part of the mechanic, but it
>>seems like a pretty serious error. Thanks for telling me about the
>>possibility of damage to the rotors due to high heat -- I'll keep my
>>fingers crossed that they are OK. - John
>
>
>
> put the car in neutral and try to push it. it may be an adjustment
> issue or it may be a crappy resurface issue. or jack up the car and
> turn each wheel by hand, if you can't then it's an adjustment
> issue.
> Chip

================
Chip,

That would be with the engine running, right? When my Volvo locked up
the brakes by itself, shutting off the engine was the only cure (even
when sitting in an intersection :-( :-( )

'Curly'

John

Chip: Many thanks for the suggestions. I'll try them out and see what
I can learn. - John


On 1 Jul 2004 18:31:08 -0700, chip@chipanddebby.com (Chip Stein)
wrote:

>> Hi Curly:
>>
>> Yes, the car does feel like I'm pulling some kind of "invisible" load,
>> and it drags and seems sluggish. The Honda dealership I had this done
>> at shall remain nameless, but its one of the biggest in the Toronto
>> area. Of course, that doesn't mean they won't try to rip people off. I
>> *hope* this was an honest mistake on the part of the mechanic, but it
>> seems like a pretty serious error. Thanks for telling me about the
>> possibility of damage to the rotors due to high heat -- I'll keep my
>> fingers crossed that they are OK. - John
>
>
> put the car in neutral and try to push it. it may be an adjustment
>issue or it may be a crappy resurface issue. or jack up the car and
>turn each wheel by hand, if you can't then it's an adjustment
>issue.
> Chip

Cosmin N.

John wrote:
> Hi Curly:
>
> Yes, the car does feel like I'm pulling some kind of "invisible" load,
> and it drags and seems sluggish. The Honda dealership I had this done
> at shall remain nameless, but its one of the biggest in the Toronto
> area. Of course, that doesn't mean they won't try to rip people off. I
> *hope* this was an honest mistake on the part of the mechanic, but it
> seems like a pretty serious error. Thanks for telling me about the
> possibility of damage to the rotors due to high heat -- I'll keep my
> fingers crossed that they are OK. - John
>

If it was Roadsport Honda, STAY AWAY FROM THEM LIKE THEY'RE THE
PLAGUE!!!! They tried to sell me a Prelude, and told me it had full
records and one owner. I gave them a $500 deposit, but before picking up
the car I checked out the VIN. Turned out it was owned by a rental
company, and the only records they had were for the 5000km it had been
driven by the dealership.

I'm out $500 right now, but since I'm on holliday, I'll call Honda and
see what I can do to get my money back (the whole thing happened 3
months ago, so it's recent enough).

Cosmin

John

Hi Cosmin: No, it wasn't Roadsport Honda. Very sorry to hear about
your bad experience, though -- best of luck with getting your money
back. - John

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 04:13:16 GMT, "Cosmin N." <no@email.com> wrote:

>John wrote:
>> Hi Curly:
>>
>> Yes, the car does feel like I'm pulling some kind of "invisible" load,
>> and it drags and seems sluggish. The Honda dealership I had this done
>> at shall remain nameless, but its one of the biggest in the Toronto
>> area. Of course, that doesn't mean they won't try to rip people off. I
>> *hope* this was an honest mistake on the part of the mechanic, but it
>> seems like a pretty serious error. Thanks for telling me about the
>> possibility of damage to the rotors due to high heat -- I'll keep my
>> fingers crossed that they are OK. - John
>>
>
>If it was Roadsport Honda, STAY AWAY FROM THEM LIKE THEY'RE THE
>PLAGUE!!!! They tried to sell me a Prelude, and told me it had full
>records and one owner. I gave them a $500 deposit, but before picking up
>the car I checked out the VIN. Turned out it was owned by a rental
>company, and the only records they had were for the 5000km it had been
>driven by the dealership.
>
>I'm out $500 right now, but since I'm on holliday, I'll call Honda and
>see what I can do to get my money back (the whole thing happened 3
>months ago, so it's recent enough).
>
>Cosmin

jim beam

motsco_ _ wrote:
> Chip Stein wrote:
>
>>> Hi Curly:
>>>
>>> Yes, the car does feel like I'm pulling some kind of "invisible" load,
>>> and it drags and seems sluggish. The Honda dealership I had this done
>>> at shall remain nameless, but its one of the biggest in the Toronto
>>> area. Of course, that doesn't mean they won't try to rip people off. I
>>> *hope* this was an honest mistake on the part of the mechanic, but it
>>> seems like a pretty serious error. Thanks for telling me about the
>>> possibility of damage to the rotors due to high heat -- I'll keep my
>>> fingers crossed that they are OK. - John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> put the car in neutral and try to push it. it may be an adjustment
>> issue or it may be a crappy resurface issue. or jack up the car and
>> turn each wheel by hand, if you can't then it's an adjustment
>> issue.
>> Chip
>
>
> ================
> Chip,
>
> That would be with the engine running, right? When my Volvo locked up
> the brakes by itself, shutting off the engine was the only cure (even
> when sitting in an intersection :-( :-( )
>
> 'Curly'
>


/that/ would be a problem with the vacuum circuit on the power assist
module.

JXStern

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 13:40:39 -0400, John <John@Home.com> wrote:
>What does he do? He's a mechanic. And yes, I did have this done
>at the Honda dealership. I gather you guys think this mechanic is
>not too good. I agree. My only hope is that I can fix this with just
>a simple adjustment instead of having to replace anything. - John

Then I don't understand.

At least in the US, if you pay dealership prices, they stand behind
repairs, and if they give you any grief, you can contact the Honda
factory rep, and they are VERY good about keeping dealer customers
happy. I presume, even on older cars.

Just take it back to the dealer and tell your story

J.