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Re: 5-speed transmission oil
"lastnn30" <lastnn30@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<g3XTa.69294$zwL.49489@news04.bloor.is.net.ca ble.rogers.com>...
> Question, I have Honda Civic 2001 (47500km) I have never tested the old of > the transition (5 speed transmission). Now when I try to change the shift > from lets say 1 to 2 or 3 to 4 etc I feel it is not smooth. Do you think I > should do something? Do you think the oil need to be changed/add ? when the > transmission oil should be change/add usually. Thanks. Change the transmission oil. The safe choice is the Honda MTF but many people (myself included) use Red Line MTL. 10W30 motor oil was spec'd for years but it was never a good choice to lubricate a syncromesh transmission. If your dealership doesn't have the Honda MTF, you can get it at www.manhonda.com or other on-line retailers. --- Bror Jace |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
Bror Jace wrote: > > "lastnn30" <lastnn30@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<g3XTa.69294$zwL.49489@news04.bloor.is.net.ca ble.rogers.com>... > > Question, I have Honda Civic 2001 (47500km) I have never tested the old of > > the transition (5 speed transmission). Now when I try to change the shift > > from lets say 1 to 2 or 3 to 4 etc I feel it is not smooth. Do you think I > > should do something? Do you think the oil need to be changed/add ? when the > > transmission oil should be change/add usually. Thanks. > > Change the transmission oil. The safe choice is the Honda MTF but many > people (myself included) use Red Line MTL. 10W30 motor oil was spec'd > for years but it was never a good choice to lubricate a syncromesh > transmission. > > If your dealership doesn't have the Honda MTF, you can get it at > www.manhonda.com or other on-line retailers. > > --- Bror Jace Once you use RedLine, you'll never go back to anything else. Been running the stuff in my old cars for years... -- Regards, JT (Residing in Austin, Texas) 1931 Studebaker President State Coupe (Q4) - Big Big Project 1955 Studebaker President State Coupe 1955 Studebaker President State Sedan 1956 Studebaker Power Hawk - Long Time Fun Car - (Will be burial container) 1963 Studebaker Lark Custom 4 Door Sedan 1964 Studebaker Champ P/U T-6 Long Bed 1965 Honda Dream 305 1989 Honda CRX 1956 Leica M2 |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
Bror Jace wrote: > > "lastnn30" <lastnn30@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<g3XTa.69294$zwL.49489@news04.bloor.is.net.ca ble.rogers.com>... > > Question, I have Honda Civic 2001 (47500km) I have never tested the old of > > the transition (5 speed transmission). Now when I try to change the shift > > from lets say 1 to 2 or 3 to 4 etc I feel it is not smooth. Do you think I > > should do something? Do you think the oil need to be changed/add ? when the > > transmission oil should be change/add usually. Thanks. > > Change the transmission oil. The safe choice is the Honda MTF but many > people (myself included) use Red Line MTL. 10W30 motor oil was spec'd > for years but it was never a good choice to lubricate a syncromesh > transmission. > > If your dealership doesn't have the Honda MTF, you can get it at > www.manhonda.com or other on-line retailers. > > --- Bror Jace Once you use RedLine, you'll never go back to anything else. Been running the stuff in my old cars for years... -- Regards, JT (Residing in Austin, Texas) 1931 Studebaker President State Coupe (Q4) - Big Big Project 1955 Studebaker President State Coupe 1955 Studebaker President State Sedan 1956 Studebaker Power Hawk - Long Time Fun Car - (Will be burial container) 1963 Studebaker Lark Custom 4 Door Sedan 1964 Studebaker Champ P/U T-6 Long Bed 1965 Honda Dream 305 1989 Honda CRX 1956 Leica M2 |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
I'll never use Redline MTL in a Honda tranny again. It eats away at the
plastic bearing cage for the input shaft bearing. http://www.codyscafe.com/~mrbone/pic...goodbadISB.jpg -- Charles Tague 93 Honda Civic DX HB 1.6L SOHC VTEC 14.85 @ 89 mph,1.98 60 ft. With ZEX 85 hp ZEX 13.09 @ 103 mph, 1.81 60ft. 86 Pontiac Trans Am 225/50/15 GForce Drag Radials 305 peanut cammed 15.29 @ 88 mph http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/ "JETman" <jetassoc@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:3F21E70D.62EBCA56@worldnet.att.net... > > > Bror Jace wrote: > > > > "lastnn30" <lastnn30@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<g3XTa.69294$zwL.49489@news04.bloor.is.net.ca ble.rogers.com>... > > > Question, I have Honda Civic 2001 (47500km) I have never tested the old of > > > the transition (5 speed transmission). Now when I try to change the shift > > > from lets say 1 to 2 or 3 to 4 etc I feel it is not smooth. Do you think I > > > should do something? Do you think the oil need to be changed/add ? when the > > > transmission oil should be change/add usually. Thanks. > > > > Change the transmission oil. The safe choice is the Honda MTF but many > > people (myself included) use Red Line MTL. 10W30 motor oil was spec'd > > for years but it was never a good choice to lubricate a syncromesh > > transmission. > > > > If your dealership doesn't have the Honda MTF, you can get it at > > www.manhonda.com or other on-line retailers. > > > > --- Bror Jace > > > > Once you use RedLine, you'll never go back to anything else. Been > running the stuff in my old cars for years... > > > -- > Regards, > > JT (Residing in Austin, Texas) > > > 1931 Studebaker President State Coupe (Q4) - Big Big Project > 1955 Studebaker President State Coupe > 1955 Studebaker President State Sedan > 1956 Studebaker Power Hawk - Long Time Fun Car - (Will be burial > container) > 1963 Studebaker Lark Custom 4 Door Sedan > 1964 Studebaker Champ P/U T-6 Long Bed > 1965 Honda Dream 305 > 1989 Honda CRX > 1956 Leica M2 |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
I'll never use Redline MTL in a Honda tranny again. It eats away at the
plastic bearing cage for the input shaft bearing. http://www.codyscafe.com/~mrbone/pic...goodbadISB.jpg -- Charles Tague 93 Honda Civic DX HB 1.6L SOHC VTEC 14.85 @ 89 mph,1.98 60 ft. With ZEX 85 hp ZEX 13.09 @ 103 mph, 1.81 60ft. 86 Pontiac Trans Am 225/50/15 GForce Drag Radials 305 peanut cammed 15.29 @ 88 mph http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/ "JETman" <jetassoc@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:3F21E70D.62EBCA56@worldnet.att.net... > > > Bror Jace wrote: > > > > "lastnn30" <lastnn30@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<g3XTa.69294$zwL.49489@news04.bloor.is.net.ca ble.rogers.com>... > > > Question, I have Honda Civic 2001 (47500km) I have never tested the old of > > > the transition (5 speed transmission). Now when I try to change the shift > > > from lets say 1 to 2 or 3 to 4 etc I feel it is not smooth. Do you think I > > > should do something? Do you think the oil need to be changed/add ? when the > > > transmission oil should be change/add usually. Thanks. > > > > Change the transmission oil. The safe choice is the Honda MTF but many > > people (myself included) use Red Line MTL. 10W30 motor oil was spec'd > > for years but it was never a good choice to lubricate a syncromesh > > transmission. > > > > If your dealership doesn't have the Honda MTF, you can get it at > > www.manhonda.com or other on-line retailers. > > > > --- Bror Jace > > > > Once you use RedLine, you'll never go back to anything else. Been > running the stuff in my old cars for years... > > > -- > Regards, > > JT (Residing in Austin, Texas) > > > 1931 Studebaker President State Coupe (Q4) - Big Big Project > 1955 Studebaker President State Coupe > 1955 Studebaker President State Sedan > 1956 Studebaker Power Hawk - Long Time Fun Car - (Will be burial > container) > 1963 Studebaker Lark Custom 4 Door Sedan > 1964 Studebaker Champ P/U T-6 Long Bed > 1965 Honda Dream 305 > 1989 Honda CRX > 1956 Leica M2 |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
"Mista Bone" <MistaB0ne@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message news:<UrmUa.6774$dO2.226@fe2.columbus.rr.com>...
> I'll never use Redline MTL in a Honda tranny again. It eats away at the > plastic bearing cage for the input shaft bearing. > > http://www.codyscafe.com/~mrbone/pic...goodbadISB.jpg Bone, is that a shot of that RSX tranny you've posted before? I know you've never been a fan of the Red Line gear oils but I've used them with great results in a '90 Integra and my '95 Civic Coupe. Combined, those two cars racked up 220,000 miles with me as a driver and another 100,000+ with others at the wheel. Great shifting, no problems. If you're right about the MTL eating a plastic seal, that's pretty sad for Honda. They should know better than to put such a finicky seal in their tranny when so many people use the Red Line synchromesh fluids. They've been around for well over a decade. But if I had an RSX, I'd rather be safe than sorry and use the not-particularly-impressive Honda MTF. Oh well. --- Bror Jace For the best in oil & lubrication discussion try: http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
"Mista Bone" <MistaB0ne@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message news:<UrmUa.6774$dO2.226@fe2.columbus.rr.com>...
> I'll never use Redline MTL in a Honda tranny again. It eats away at the > plastic bearing cage for the input shaft bearing. > > http://www.codyscafe.com/~mrbone/pic...goodbadISB.jpg Bone, is that a shot of that RSX tranny you've posted before? I know you've never been a fan of the Red Line gear oils but I've used them with great results in a '90 Integra and my '95 Civic Coupe. Combined, those two cars racked up 220,000 miles with me as a driver and another 100,000+ with others at the wheel. Great shifting, no problems. If you're right about the MTL eating a plastic seal, that's pretty sad for Honda. They should know better than to put such a finicky seal in their tranny when so many people use the Red Line synchromesh fluids. They've been around for well over a decade. But if I had an RSX, I'd rather be safe than sorry and use the not-particularly-impressive Honda MTF. Oh well. --- Bror Jace For the best in oil & lubrication discussion try: http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
On 27 Jul 2003 18:21:54 -0700, brorjace@hotmail.com (Bror Jace) wrote:
>"Mista Bone" <MistaB0ne@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message news:<UrmUa.6774$dO2.226@fe2.columbus.rr.com>... >> I'll never use Redline MTL in a Honda tranny again. It eats away at the >> plastic bearing cage for the input shaft bearing. >> >> http://www.codyscafe.com/~mrbone/pic...goodbadISB.jpg > >Bone, is that a shot of that RSX tranny you've posted before? > >I know you've never been a fan of the Red Line gear oils but I've used >them with great results in a '90 Integra and my '95 Civic Coupe. >Combined, those two cars racked up 220,000 miles with me as a driver >and another 100,000+ with others at the wheel. Great shifting, no >problems. > >If you're right about the MTL eating a plastic seal, that's pretty sad >for Honda. They should know better than to put such a finicky seal in >their tranny when so many people use the Red Line synchromesh fluids. >They've been around for well over a decade. It's not the seal that got destroyed - it's the bearing cage and it wasn't clear if it suffered due to solvency of the plastic in the oil or if it got worn away by abrasion. It's completely gone though - all eight balls are jammed against each other in the bad bearing. >But if I had an RSX, I'd rather be safe than sorry and use the >not-particularly-impressive Honda MTF. Oh well. The Honda MTF works fine for me. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
On 27 Jul 2003 18:21:54 -0700, brorjace@hotmail.com (Bror Jace) wrote:
>"Mista Bone" <MistaB0ne@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message news:<UrmUa.6774$dO2.226@fe2.columbus.rr.com>... >> I'll never use Redline MTL in a Honda tranny again. It eats away at the >> plastic bearing cage for the input shaft bearing. >> >> http://www.codyscafe.com/~mrbone/pic...goodbadISB.jpg > >Bone, is that a shot of that RSX tranny you've posted before? > >I know you've never been a fan of the Red Line gear oils but I've used >them with great results in a '90 Integra and my '95 Civic Coupe. >Combined, those two cars racked up 220,000 miles with me as a driver >and another 100,000+ with others at the wheel. Great shifting, no >problems. > >If you're right about the MTL eating a plastic seal, that's pretty sad >for Honda. They should know better than to put such a finicky seal in >their tranny when so many people use the Red Line synchromesh fluids. >They've been around for well over a decade. It's not the seal that got destroyed - it's the bearing cage and it wasn't clear if it suffered due to solvency of the plastic in the oil or if it got worn away by abrasion. It's completely gone though - all eight balls are jammed against each other in the bad bearing. >But if I had an RSX, I'd rather be safe than sorry and use the >not-particularly-impressive Honda MTF. Oh well. The Honda MTF works fine for me. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3f24c261.75946917@news.tellurian.com>...
> It's not the seal that got destroyed - it's the bearing cage and it wasn't > clear if it suffered due to solvency of the plastic in the oil or if it got > worn away by abrasion. It's completely gone though - all eight balls are > jammed against each other in the bad bearing. Was there a big difference between the 5th and 6th generation Civic 5-speeds? My '95 Coupe went 132,000 miles (122,000 miles on MTL) without a single tranny-related problem. If solvency WAS an issue, it surely would have reared its ugly head in my car as I ran it much, much longer. > The Honda MTF works fine for me. I've never tried the stuff. A virgin oil analysis on it shows it to be a fairly ordinary-looking fluid. No special anti-wear (moly, borate-esters, etc ...) just a good dose of what looks like ZDDP ... in quantities motor oils used to have the stuff. I just know that MTL (70W80) was a vast improvement over the factory fill in both my '90 Integra as well as the '95 Civic. Who knows what they put in the trannies back then at the factory? What I like most about the Red Line fluids is their cold-shift capabilities. Dead-of-winter graunch is greatly eliminated. In fact, I have to get rid of the crappy factory gear oil in my Sentra Spec-V's 6-speed before this coming winter. The tranny is full of graunch at any temp under 40F until it's thoroughly warm. I have to shift very s l o w l y and c a r e f u l l y until the car is well warmed up to keep from grinding. I figure MT-90 (75W90) will be a significant improvement ... and it's the most popular fluid with other Spec drivers. --- Bror Jace (Saratoga, NY) |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3f24c261.75946917@news.tellurian.com>...
> It's not the seal that got destroyed - it's the bearing cage and it wasn't > clear if it suffered due to solvency of the plastic in the oil or if it got > worn away by abrasion. It's completely gone though - all eight balls are > jammed against each other in the bad bearing. Was there a big difference between the 5th and 6th generation Civic 5-speeds? My '95 Coupe went 132,000 miles (122,000 miles on MTL) without a single tranny-related problem. If solvency WAS an issue, it surely would have reared its ugly head in my car as I ran it much, much longer. > The Honda MTF works fine for me. I've never tried the stuff. A virgin oil analysis on it shows it to be a fairly ordinary-looking fluid. No special anti-wear (moly, borate-esters, etc ...) just a good dose of what looks like ZDDP ... in quantities motor oils used to have the stuff. I just know that MTL (70W80) was a vast improvement over the factory fill in both my '90 Integra as well as the '95 Civic. Who knows what they put in the trannies back then at the factory? What I like most about the Red Line fluids is their cold-shift capabilities. Dead-of-winter graunch is greatly eliminated. In fact, I have to get rid of the crappy factory gear oil in my Sentra Spec-V's 6-speed before this coming winter. The tranny is full of graunch at any temp under 40F until it's thoroughly warm. I have to shift very s l o w l y and c a r e f u l l y until the car is well warmed up to keep from grinding. I figure MT-90 (75W90) will be a significant improvement ... and it's the most popular fluid with other Spec drivers. --- Bror Jace (Saratoga, NY) |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
On 28 Jul 2003 19:46:29 -0700, brorjace@hotmail.com (Bror Jace) wrote:
>fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3f24c261.75946917@news.tellurian.com>... > >> It's not the seal that got destroyed - it's the bearing cage and it wasn't >> clear if it suffered due to solvency of the plastic in the oil or if it got >> worn away by abrasion. It's completely gone though - all eight balls are >> jammed against each other in the bad bearing. > >Was there a big difference between the 5th and 6th generation Civic >5-speeds? My '95 Coupe went 132,000 miles (122,000 miles on MTL) >without a single tranny-related problem. If solvency WAS an issue, it >surely would have reared its ugly head in my car as I ran it much, >much longer. I didn't say it was solvency. Even if it was then I'd indict RedLine before Hionda on the subject of testing and warnings... given your later remarks about Honda MTF. >> The Honda MTF works fine for me. > >I've never tried the stuff. A virgin oil analysis on it shows it to be >a fairly ordinary-looking fluid. No special anti-wear (moly, >borate-esters, etc ...) just a good dose of what looks like ZDDP ... >in quantities motor oils used to have the stuff. I'm not sure how a lubricant/fluid arrives at being characterized as "ordinary-looking"... nor what the "analysis" actually examined. Borate-esters would appear to be something I would not expect to find in Honda MTF, given that they are currently being test marketed by the additive mfrs - maybe something I'd want nothing to do with until that testing is done. Obviously ZDDP works well and has for years and of course, there's no catalytic converter in a gear box - in fact if ZDDP had not been blacklisted by the auto mfrs we'd probably still be using it in our engines and MoDTC would be an obscure chemical. The Honda Australia site used to show the "Honda MTF" with the mention that it was a 75W/80 API gear lubricant - not even sure if it'd be the same stuff - but it was not rated as EP so I'd expect a modest (non-extreme) friction modifier content. >I just know that MTL (70W80) was a vast improvement over the factory >fill in both my '90 Integra as well as the '95 Civic. Who knows what >they put in the trannies back then at the factory? > >What I like most about the Red Line fluids is their cold-shift >capabilities. Dead-of-winter graunch is greatly eliminated. In fact, I >have to get rid of the crappy factory gear oil in my Sentra Spec-V's >6-speed before this coming winter. The tranny is full of graunch at >any temp under 40F until it's thoroughly warm. I have to shift very s >l o w l y and c a r e f u l l y until the car is well warmed up to >keep from grinding. I figure MT-90 (75W90) will be a significant >improvement ... and it's the most popular fluid with other Spec >drivers. Yes with Honda MTF, you *do* have to shift gently in low temps - not for long though - but I expect that Honda is quite sure that it is not incompatible with the metallurgy of their gearbox components. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
On 28 Jul 2003 19:46:29 -0700, brorjace@hotmail.com (Bror Jace) wrote:
>fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3f24c261.75946917@news.tellurian.com>... > >> It's not the seal that got destroyed - it's the bearing cage and it wasn't >> clear if it suffered due to solvency of the plastic in the oil or if it got >> worn away by abrasion. It's completely gone though - all eight balls are >> jammed against each other in the bad bearing. > >Was there a big difference between the 5th and 6th generation Civic >5-speeds? My '95 Coupe went 132,000 miles (122,000 miles on MTL) >without a single tranny-related problem. If solvency WAS an issue, it >surely would have reared its ugly head in my car as I ran it much, >much longer. I didn't say it was solvency. Even if it was then I'd indict RedLine before Hionda on the subject of testing and warnings... given your later remarks about Honda MTF. >> The Honda MTF works fine for me. > >I've never tried the stuff. A virgin oil analysis on it shows it to be >a fairly ordinary-looking fluid. No special anti-wear (moly, >borate-esters, etc ...) just a good dose of what looks like ZDDP ... >in quantities motor oils used to have the stuff. I'm not sure how a lubricant/fluid arrives at being characterized as "ordinary-looking"... nor what the "analysis" actually examined. Borate-esters would appear to be something I would not expect to find in Honda MTF, given that they are currently being test marketed by the additive mfrs - maybe something I'd want nothing to do with until that testing is done. Obviously ZDDP works well and has for years and of course, there's no catalytic converter in a gear box - in fact if ZDDP had not been blacklisted by the auto mfrs we'd probably still be using it in our engines and MoDTC would be an obscure chemical. The Honda Australia site used to show the "Honda MTF" with the mention that it was a 75W/80 API gear lubricant - not even sure if it'd be the same stuff - but it was not rated as EP so I'd expect a modest (non-extreme) friction modifier content. >I just know that MTL (70W80) was a vast improvement over the factory >fill in both my '90 Integra as well as the '95 Civic. Who knows what >they put in the trannies back then at the factory? > >What I like most about the Red Line fluids is their cold-shift >capabilities. Dead-of-winter graunch is greatly eliminated. In fact, I >have to get rid of the crappy factory gear oil in my Sentra Spec-V's >6-speed before this coming winter. The tranny is full of graunch at >any temp under 40F until it's thoroughly warm. I have to shift very s >l o w l y and c a r e f u l l y until the car is well warmed up to >keep from grinding. I figure MT-90 (75W90) will be a significant >improvement ... and it's the most popular fluid with other Spec >drivers. Yes with Honda MTF, you *do* have to shift gently in low temps - not for long though - but I expect that Honda is quite sure that it is not incompatible with the metallurgy of their gearbox components. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
George Macdonald wrote:
> Yes with Honda MTF, you *do* have to shift gently in low temps - not for > long though - but I expect that Honda is quite sure that it is not > incompatible with the metallurgy of their gearbox components. > Umm, I think you meant "plasticlurgy" ;) |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
George Macdonald wrote:
> Yes with Honda MTF, you *do* have to shift gently in low temps - not for > long though - but I expect that Honda is quite sure that it is not > incompatible with the metallurgy of their gearbox components. > Umm, I think you meant "plasticlurgy" ;) |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
The 1988-2000 Civic SOHC tranny all use the same input shaft bearings. I
myself have never had a "ISB" bearing failure, but I usually have the tranny out every 15k-20K miles for replacing 1-2 shifter fork, yes I drive ABUSIVE!!!!! The 1996-2000 trannys use a different (steel) shifter fork design that doesn't break like the 1988-1995 shifter forks. They ARE NOT interchangeable. Redline MTL leaves behind red GLOBS unless flushed with dino oil. The tranny in the link was ran with dino oil for 3,000 miles just to see if the problem was from Redline MTL, but it was too late. I've ran Redline MTL for 12k miles. The cold shifting IMPROVEMENT was nice. BTW NEVER EVER use synthetic motor oil in a Honda tranny, too slick. Bror Jace, I'm seeing others that use the MT-90 doing ok, no problems. -- Charles Tague 93 Honda Civic DX HB 1.6L SOHC VTEC 14.85 @ 89 mph,1.98 60 ft. With ZEX 85 hp ZEX 13.09 @ 103 mph, 1.81 60ft. 86 Pontiac Trans Am 225/50/15 GForce Drag Radials 305 peanut cammed 15.29 @ 88 mph http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/ "Bror Jace" <brorjace@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:d1373663.0307281846.218aa7a6@posting.google.c om... > fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3f24c261.75946917@news.tellurian.com>... > > > It's not the seal that got destroyed - it's the bearing cage and it wasn't > > clear if it suffered due to solvency of the plastic in the oil or if it got > > worn away by abrasion. It's completely gone though - all eight balls are > > jammed against each other in the bad bearing. > > Was there a big difference between the 5th and 6th generation Civic > 5-speeds? My '95 Coupe went 132,000 miles (122,000 miles on MTL) > without a single tranny-related problem. If solvency WAS an issue, it > surely would have reared its ugly head in my car as I ran it much, > much longer. > > > The Honda MTF works fine for me. > > I've never tried the stuff. A virgin oil analysis on it shows it to be > a fairly ordinary-looking fluid. No special anti-wear (moly, > borate-esters, etc ...) just a good dose of what looks like ZDDP ... > in quantities motor oils used to have the stuff. > > I just know that MTL (70W80) was a vast improvement over the factory > fill in both my '90 Integra as well as the '95 Civic. Who knows what > they put in the trannies back then at the factory? > > What I like most about the Red Line fluids is their cold-shift > capabilities. Dead-of-winter graunch is greatly eliminated. In fact, I > have to get rid of the crappy factory gear oil in my Sentra Spec-V's > 6-speed before this coming winter. The tranny is full of graunch at > any temp under 40F until it's thoroughly warm. I have to shift very s > l o w l y and c a r e f u l l y until the car is well warmed up to > keep from grinding. I figure MT-90 (75W90) will be a significant > improvement ... and it's the most popular fluid with other Spec > drivers. > > --- Bror Jace > (Saratoga, NY) |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
The 1988-2000 Civic SOHC tranny all use the same input shaft bearings. I
myself have never had a "ISB" bearing failure, but I usually have the tranny out every 15k-20K miles for replacing 1-2 shifter fork, yes I drive ABUSIVE!!!!! The 1996-2000 trannys use a different (steel) shifter fork design that doesn't break like the 1988-1995 shifter forks. They ARE NOT interchangeable. Redline MTL leaves behind red GLOBS unless flushed with dino oil. The tranny in the link was ran with dino oil for 3,000 miles just to see if the problem was from Redline MTL, but it was too late. I've ran Redline MTL for 12k miles. The cold shifting IMPROVEMENT was nice. BTW NEVER EVER use synthetic motor oil in a Honda tranny, too slick. Bror Jace, I'm seeing others that use the MT-90 doing ok, no problems. -- Charles Tague 93 Honda Civic DX HB 1.6L SOHC VTEC 14.85 @ 89 mph,1.98 60 ft. With ZEX 85 hp ZEX 13.09 @ 103 mph, 1.81 60ft. 86 Pontiac Trans Am 225/50/15 GForce Drag Radials 305 peanut cammed 15.29 @ 88 mph http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/ "Bror Jace" <brorjace@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:d1373663.0307281846.218aa7a6@posting.google.c om... > fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3f24c261.75946917@news.tellurian.com>... > > > It's not the seal that got destroyed - it's the bearing cage and it wasn't > > clear if it suffered due to solvency of the plastic in the oil or if it got > > worn away by abrasion. It's completely gone though - all eight balls are > > jammed against each other in the bad bearing. > > Was there a big difference between the 5th and 6th generation Civic > 5-speeds? My '95 Coupe went 132,000 miles (122,000 miles on MTL) > without a single tranny-related problem. If solvency WAS an issue, it > surely would have reared its ugly head in my car as I ran it much, > much longer. > > > The Honda MTF works fine for me. > > I've never tried the stuff. A virgin oil analysis on it shows it to be > a fairly ordinary-looking fluid. No special anti-wear (moly, > borate-esters, etc ...) just a good dose of what looks like ZDDP ... > in quantities motor oils used to have the stuff. > > I just know that MTL (70W80) was a vast improvement over the factory > fill in both my '90 Integra as well as the '95 Civic. Who knows what > they put in the trannies back then at the factory? > > What I like most about the Red Line fluids is their cold-shift > capabilities. Dead-of-winter graunch is greatly eliminated. In fact, I > have to get rid of the crappy factory gear oil in my Sentra Spec-V's > 6-speed before this coming winter. The tranny is full of graunch at > any temp under 40F until it's thoroughly warm. I have to shift very s > l o w l y and c a r e f u l l y until the car is well warmed up to > keep from grinding. I figure MT-90 (75W90) will be a significant > improvement ... and it's the most popular fluid with other Spec > drivers. > > --- Bror Jace > (Saratoga, NY) |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
On 29 Jul 2003 19:32:15 -0700, brorjace@hotmail.com (Bror Jace) wrote:
>fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3f25fbe5.11848392@news.tellurian.com>... > >If solvency WAS an issue, it >> >surely would have reared its ugly head in my car as I ran it much, >> >much longer. >> >> I didn't say it was solvency. Even if it was then I'd indict RedLine >> before Honda on the subject of testing and warnings... given your later >> remarks about Honda MTF. > >I know. That bit was in response to some things Mista Bone had posted >earlier. Just my thoughts that it *couldn't* be a solvency problem ... >but not necessarily some other problem. Whatever it is, it *is* extreme! >> >I've never tried (Honda MTF). A virgin oil analysis on it shows it to be >> >a fairly ordinary-looking fluid. No special anti-wear (moly, >> >borate-esters, etc ...) just a good dose of what looks like ZDDP ... >> >in quantities motor oils used to have the stuff. >> >> I'm not sure how a lubricant/fluid arrives at being characterized as >> "ordinary-looking"... nor what the "analysis" actually examined. > >Here's a link: > >http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=000100#000000 > >There's also a used sample of this stuff tested on that site: > >http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=000562#000000 0% water seems awfully suspicious to me in that UOA. Other than that the stuff works. >> Borate-esters would appear to be something I would not expect to find in >> Honda MTF, given that they are currently being test marketed by the >> additive mfrs - maybe something I'd want nothing to do with until that >> testing is done. > >Well, they're quickly going mainstream ... especially in gear oils, >oils for motorcycles which do not tolerate moly and even many motor >oils like Pennzoil, Chevron Supreme, Mobil 1 SuperSyn, etc ... Both >MTL and I believe MT-90 have borate esters in them. Seems a bit early to be going mainstream to me - Vanderbilt still shows it in test marketing... to lube mfrs. Given the variation in bearing materials between various auto mfrs' engines I'd expect a more cautious approach by the lube mfrs. So has Mobil1 switched from MoDTC to borate-ester.... already?... or is it used as an additional supplement? All this chopping and changing makes me dizzy... and wary. >Obviously ZDDP works well and has for years and of >> course, there's no catalytic converter in a gear box - in fact if ZDDP had >> not been blacklisted by the auto mfrs we'd probably still be using it in >> our engines and MoDTC would be an obscure chemical. > >True, but MoDTC is actually working pretty well as a barrier anti-wear >... producing some incredibly low wear numbers in UOAs. Let's hope there are no surprises down the road. Vanderbilt still warns about the diesels and copper "corrosion". >> >What I like most about the Red Line fluids is their cold-shift >> >capabilities. Dead-of-winter graunch is greatly eliminated. > >> Yes with Honda MTF, you *do* have to shift gently in low temps - not for >> long though - but I expect that Honda is quite sure that it is not >> incompatible with the metallurgy of their gearbox components. > >** Yeah, Plasticurgy. >;^) I guess it's a trade off. In MolaKule's >Nissan truck transmission wear seemed to be greatly improved by >switching from the Amsoil he was using to one of the Red Line >synchromesh fluids. There are UOAs of his tranny oil on the same site >as well. Don't think he ever tried MTF in his Nissan. In the case of the cage, I assumed that it was plastic - I guess from what we could see in the .JPG, it didn't look like metal. My point was though, that metallurgy *is* important in the choice of lube for a gearbox. As an example, AFAIK there are still mfrs using API EP gear oils (VW ?) and they would not work in any situation where there was any red metal. Before switching to some new, latest, whiz-bang additive, I'd want to be sure that there are no such similar incompatibilities - IOW unless I heard from Honda, Nissan, Toyota et.al. that "yes we have tested this and it is approved", I'd tend to stick with what I know has worked. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
On 29 Jul 2003 19:32:15 -0700, brorjace@hotmail.com (Bror Jace) wrote:
>fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3f25fbe5.11848392@news.tellurian.com>... > >If solvency WAS an issue, it >> >surely would have reared its ugly head in my car as I ran it much, >> >much longer. >> >> I didn't say it was solvency. Even if it was then I'd indict RedLine >> before Honda on the subject of testing and warnings... given your later >> remarks about Honda MTF. > >I know. That bit was in response to some things Mista Bone had posted >earlier. Just my thoughts that it *couldn't* be a solvency problem ... >but not necessarily some other problem. Whatever it is, it *is* extreme! >> >I've never tried (Honda MTF). A virgin oil analysis on it shows it to be >> >a fairly ordinary-looking fluid. No special anti-wear (moly, >> >borate-esters, etc ...) just a good dose of what looks like ZDDP ... >> >in quantities motor oils used to have the stuff. >> >> I'm not sure how a lubricant/fluid arrives at being characterized as >> "ordinary-looking"... nor what the "analysis" actually examined. > >Here's a link: > >http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=000100#000000 > >There's also a used sample of this stuff tested on that site: > >http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=000562#000000 0% water seems awfully suspicious to me in that UOA. Other than that the stuff works. >> Borate-esters would appear to be something I would not expect to find in >> Honda MTF, given that they are currently being test marketed by the >> additive mfrs - maybe something I'd want nothing to do with until that >> testing is done. > >Well, they're quickly going mainstream ... especially in gear oils, >oils for motorcycles which do not tolerate moly and even many motor >oils like Pennzoil, Chevron Supreme, Mobil 1 SuperSyn, etc ... Both >MTL and I believe MT-90 have borate esters in them. Seems a bit early to be going mainstream to me - Vanderbilt still shows it in test marketing... to lube mfrs. Given the variation in bearing materials between various auto mfrs' engines I'd expect a more cautious approach by the lube mfrs. So has Mobil1 switched from MoDTC to borate-ester.... already?... or is it used as an additional supplement? All this chopping and changing makes me dizzy... and wary. >Obviously ZDDP works well and has for years and of >> course, there's no catalytic converter in a gear box - in fact if ZDDP had >> not been blacklisted by the auto mfrs we'd probably still be using it in >> our engines and MoDTC would be an obscure chemical. > >True, but MoDTC is actually working pretty well as a barrier anti-wear >... producing some incredibly low wear numbers in UOAs. Let's hope there are no surprises down the road. Vanderbilt still warns about the diesels and copper "corrosion". >> >What I like most about the Red Line fluids is their cold-shift >> >capabilities. Dead-of-winter graunch is greatly eliminated. > >> Yes with Honda MTF, you *do* have to shift gently in low temps - not for >> long though - but I expect that Honda is quite sure that it is not >> incompatible with the metallurgy of their gearbox components. > >** Yeah, Plasticurgy. >;^) I guess it's a trade off. In MolaKule's >Nissan truck transmission wear seemed to be greatly improved by >switching from the Amsoil he was using to one of the Red Line >synchromesh fluids. There are UOAs of his tranny oil on the same site >as well. Don't think he ever tried MTF in his Nissan. In the case of the cage, I assumed that it was plastic - I guess from what we could see in the .JPG, it didn't look like metal. My point was though, that metallurgy *is* important in the choice of lube for a gearbox. As an example, AFAIK there are still mfrs using API EP gear oils (VW ?) and they would not work in any situation where there was any red metal. Before switching to some new, latest, whiz-bang additive, I'd want to be sure that there are no such similar incompatibilities - IOW unless I heard from Honda, Nissan, Toyota et.al. that "yes we have tested this and it is approved", I'd tend to stick with what I know has worked. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
Bror Jace wrote: > > fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3f25fbe5.11848392@news.tellurian.com>... > > If solvency WAS an issue, it > > >surely would have reared its ugly head in my car as I ran it much, > > >much longer. > > > > I didn't say it was solvency. Even if it was then I'd indict RedLine > > before Honda on the subject of testing and warnings... given your later > > remarks about Honda MTF. > > I know. That bit was in response to some things Mista Bone had posted > earlier. Just my thoughts that it *couldn't* be a solvency problem ... > but not necessarily some other problem. > I checked with RedLine tech support and they simply stated that if their product routinely destroyed plastic parts, they wouldn't have a market... Me thinks something else is responsible here... > > >I've never tried (Honda MTF). A virgin oil analysis on it shows it to be > > >a fairly ordinary-looking fluid. No special anti-wear (moly, > > >borate-esters, etc ...) just a good dose of what looks like ZDDP ... > > >in quantities motor oils used to have the stuff. > > > > I'm not sure how a lubricant/fluid arrives at being characterized as > > "ordinary-looking"... nor what the "analysis" actually examined. > > Here's a link: > > http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=000100#000000 > > There's also a used sample of this stuff tested on that site: > > http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=000562#000000 > > > Borate-esters would appear to be something I would not expect to find in > > Honda MTF, given that they are currently being test marketed by the > > additive mfrs - maybe something I'd want nothing to do with until that > > testing is done. > > Well, they're quickly going mainstream ... especially in gear oils, > oils for motorcycles which do not tolerate moly and even many motor > oils like Pennzoil, Chevron Supreme, Mobil 1 SuperSyn, etc ... Both > MTL and I believe MT-90 have borate esters in them. > > Obviously ZDDP works well and has for years and of > > course, there's no catalytic converter in a gear box - in fact if ZDDP had > > not been blacklisted by the auto mfrs we'd probably still be using it in > > our engines and MoDTC would be an obscure chemical. > > True, but MoDTC is actually working pretty well as a barrier anti-wear > ... producing some incredibly low wear numbers in UOAs. > > > The Honda Australia site used to show the "Honda MTF" with the mention that > > it was a 75W/80 API gear lubricant - not even sure if it'd be the same > > stuff - but it was not rated as EP so I'd expect a modest (non-extreme) > > friction modifier content. > > Sounds like the same stuff ... and that weight sounds about right as > well ... just a tad thicker at colder temps than MTL. > > > >What I like most about the Red Line fluids is their cold-shift > > >capabilities. Dead-of-winter graunch is greatly eliminated. > > > Yes with Honda MTF, you *do* have to shift gently in low temps - not for > > long though - but I expect that Honda is quite sure that it is not > > incompatible with the metallurgy of their gearbox components. > > ** Yeah, Plasticurgy. >;^) I guess it's a trade off. In MolaKule's > Nissan truck transmission wear seemed to be greatly improved by > switching from the Amsoil he was using to one of the Red Line > synchromesh fluids. There are UOAs of his tranny oil on the same site > as well. Don't think he ever tried MTF in his Nissan. > > ** Bror Jace -- Regards, JT (Residing in Austin, Texas) Just Tooling Down The Internet Superhighway With my G4....... |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
Bror Jace wrote: > > fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3f25fbe5.11848392@news.tellurian.com>... > > If solvency WAS an issue, it > > >surely would have reared its ugly head in my car as I ran it much, > > >much longer. > > > > I didn't say it was solvency. Even if it was then I'd indict RedLine > > before Honda on the subject of testing and warnings... given your later > > remarks about Honda MTF. > > I know. That bit was in response to some things Mista Bone had posted > earlier. Just my thoughts that it *couldn't* be a solvency problem ... > but not necessarily some other problem. > I checked with RedLine tech support and they simply stated that if their product routinely destroyed plastic parts, they wouldn't have a market... Me thinks something else is responsible here... > > >I've never tried (Honda MTF). A virgin oil analysis on it shows it to be > > >a fairly ordinary-looking fluid. No special anti-wear (moly, > > >borate-esters, etc ...) just a good dose of what looks like ZDDP ... > > >in quantities motor oils used to have the stuff. > > > > I'm not sure how a lubricant/fluid arrives at being characterized as > > "ordinary-looking"... nor what the "analysis" actually examined. > > Here's a link: > > http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=000100#000000 > > There's also a used sample of this stuff tested on that site: > > http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=000562#000000 > > > Borate-esters would appear to be something I would not expect to find in > > Honda MTF, given that they are currently being test marketed by the > > additive mfrs - maybe something I'd want nothing to do with until that > > testing is done. > > Well, they're quickly going mainstream ... especially in gear oils, > oils for motorcycles which do not tolerate moly and even many motor > oils like Pennzoil, Chevron Supreme, Mobil 1 SuperSyn, etc ... Both > MTL and I believe MT-90 have borate esters in them. > > Obviously ZDDP works well and has for years and of > > course, there's no catalytic converter in a gear box - in fact if ZDDP had > > not been blacklisted by the auto mfrs we'd probably still be using it in > > our engines and MoDTC would be an obscure chemical. > > True, but MoDTC is actually working pretty well as a barrier anti-wear > ... producing some incredibly low wear numbers in UOAs. > > > The Honda Australia site used to show the "Honda MTF" with the mention that > > it was a 75W/80 API gear lubricant - not even sure if it'd be the same > > stuff - but it was not rated as EP so I'd expect a modest (non-extreme) > > friction modifier content. > > Sounds like the same stuff ... and that weight sounds about right as > well ... just a tad thicker at colder temps than MTL. > > > >What I like most about the Red Line fluids is their cold-shift > > >capabilities. Dead-of-winter graunch is greatly eliminated. > > > Yes with Honda MTF, you *do* have to shift gently in low temps - not for > > long though - but I expect that Honda is quite sure that it is not > > incompatible with the metallurgy of their gearbox components. > > ** Yeah, Plasticurgy. >;^) I guess it's a trade off. In MolaKule's > Nissan truck transmission wear seemed to be greatly improved by > switching from the Amsoil he was using to one of the Red Line > synchromesh fluids. There are UOAs of his tranny oil on the same site > as well. Don't think he ever tried MTF in his Nissan. > > ** Bror Jace -- Regards, JT (Residing in Austin, Texas) Just Tooling Down The Internet Superhighway With my G4....... |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3f279f7f.3312425@news.tellurian.com>...
> >Here's a link: > > > >http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=000100#000000 > > > >There's also a used sample of this stuff tested on that site: > > > >http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=000562#000000 > > 0% water seems awfully suspicious to me in that UOA. Other than that the > stuff works. Actually, of all the UOAs I've seen, rarely is water a problem. I don't know why ... better ventilation? The fact that most samples are taken at high (operating) temperature? > >> Borate-esters would appear to be something I would not expect to find in > >> Honda MTF > >Well, they're quickly going mainstream ... especially in gear oils, > >oils for motorcycles which do not tolerate moly and even many motor > >oils like Pennzoil, Chevron Supreme, Mobil 1 SuperSyn, etc ... Both > >MTL and I believe MT-90 have borate esters in them. > > Seems a bit early to be going mainstream to me - Vanderbilt still shows it > in test marketing... to lube mfrs. Given the variation in bearing > materials between various auto mfrs' engines I'd expect a more cautious > approach by the lube mfrs. So has Mobil1 switched from MoDTC to > borate-ester.... already?... or is it used as an additional supplement? > All this chopping and changing makes me dizzy... and wary. If you look at the site, you'll see that Mobil 1 has boron showing in their analysis ... as well as Pennzoil (all multi-vis oils), the latest Chevron Supreme, many motorcycle oils, Motorcraft 15W40, etc .... You might weant to check out the VOA (virgin oil analysis) section of that forum. The boron (assuming borate esters of some sort) are used in conjunction with MotDC, not as a replacement. > Let's hope there are no surprises down the road. Vanderbilt still warns > about the diesels and copper "corrosion". So does Cummins ... and the oil Cummins recommends for their diesels is Valvoline Blue 15W40 ... which, as it so happens, contains MoDTC. One of the forum members had to point this out to them (Duh!!) and then they backtracked and said it was really moly disulphide which they recommend users avoid. And people wonder why owners second-guess their factory recommendations? :rolleyes: My point was though, > that metallurgy *is* important in the choice of lube for a gearbox. As an > example, AFAIK there are still mfrs using API EP gear oils (VW ?) and they > would not work in any situation where there was any red metal. Before > switching to some new, latest, whiz-bang additive, I'd want to be sure that > there are no such similar incompatibilities - IOW unless I heard from > Honda, Nissan, Toyota et.al. that "yes we have tested this and it is > approved", I'd tend to stick with what I know has worked. Safe bet. --- Bror Jace |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3f279f7f.3312425@news.tellurian.com>...
> >Here's a link: > > > >http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=000100#000000 > > > >There's also a used sample of this stuff tested on that site: > > > >http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=000562#000000 > > 0% water seems awfully suspicious to me in that UOA. Other than that the > stuff works. Actually, of all the UOAs I've seen, rarely is water a problem. I don't know why ... better ventilation? The fact that most samples are taken at high (operating) temperature? > >> Borate-esters would appear to be something I would not expect to find in > >> Honda MTF > >Well, they're quickly going mainstream ... especially in gear oils, > >oils for motorcycles which do not tolerate moly and even many motor > >oils like Pennzoil, Chevron Supreme, Mobil 1 SuperSyn, etc ... Both > >MTL and I believe MT-90 have borate esters in them. > > Seems a bit early to be going mainstream to me - Vanderbilt still shows it > in test marketing... to lube mfrs. Given the variation in bearing > materials between various auto mfrs' engines I'd expect a more cautious > approach by the lube mfrs. So has Mobil1 switched from MoDTC to > borate-ester.... already?... or is it used as an additional supplement? > All this chopping and changing makes me dizzy... and wary. If you look at the site, you'll see that Mobil 1 has boron showing in their analysis ... as well as Pennzoil (all multi-vis oils), the latest Chevron Supreme, many motorcycle oils, Motorcraft 15W40, etc .... You might weant to check out the VOA (virgin oil analysis) section of that forum. The boron (assuming borate esters of some sort) are used in conjunction with MotDC, not as a replacement. > Let's hope there are no surprises down the road. Vanderbilt still warns > about the diesels and copper "corrosion". So does Cummins ... and the oil Cummins recommends for their diesels is Valvoline Blue 15W40 ... which, as it so happens, contains MoDTC. One of the forum members had to point this out to them (Duh!!) and then they backtracked and said it was really moly disulphide which they recommend users avoid. And people wonder why owners second-guess their factory recommendations? :rolleyes: My point was though, > that metallurgy *is* important in the choice of lube for a gearbox. As an > example, AFAIK there are still mfrs using API EP gear oils (VW ?) and they > would not work in any situation where there was any red metal. Before > switching to some new, latest, whiz-bang additive, I'd want to be sure that > there are no such similar incompatibilities - IOW unless I heard from > Honda, Nissan, Toyota et.al. that "yes we have tested this and it is > approved", I'd tend to stick with what I know has worked. Safe bet. --- Bror Jace |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3f2e040f.27549603@news.tellurian.com>...
> I suppose that water should *mostly* get blown off by the heat cycling of a > gearbox and in the normal case, of course (no deep puddles :-)), the only > source of water there is atmospheric. I guess it depends on how low they > want to go on their measurement. Certainly just about every petroleum type > product, including synthetic oils, will have a small amount of water in it > just from sitting around exposed to air. I'm not sure how small of an amount Blackstone detects. Their printed measurements suggest an accuracy of a tenth of a percent but I don't know if I've seen a number other than 5 in that position so they may report 0.10 through 0.40 as "0.0" I'm just not sure. I know that in years past, accumulated moisture in various sumps was always a big concern. Either it wasn't ever the problem people thought it was or perhaps modern applications are better at dealing with the moisture (venting it off, etc ...) than ever before. And yes, the changes in oil formulation in the past 2 years have shown an incredible leap in additive packages ... but at least the UOAs have been looking better as well ... especially M1 SS vs M1 Tri-Syn. --- Bror Jace |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3f2e040f.27549603@news.tellurian.com>...
> I suppose that water should *mostly* get blown off by the heat cycling of a > gearbox and in the normal case, of course (no deep puddles :-)), the only > source of water there is atmospheric. I guess it depends on how low they > want to go on their measurement. Certainly just about every petroleum type > product, including synthetic oils, will have a small amount of water in it > just from sitting around exposed to air. I'm not sure how small of an amount Blackstone detects. Their printed measurements suggest an accuracy of a tenth of a percent but I don't know if I've seen a number other than 5 in that position so they may report 0.10 through 0.40 as "0.0" I'm just not sure. I know that in years past, accumulated moisture in various sumps was always a big concern. Either it wasn't ever the problem people thought it was or perhaps modern applications are better at dealing with the moisture (venting it off, etc ...) than ever before. And yes, the changes in oil formulation in the past 2 years have shown an incredible leap in additive packages ... but at least the UOAs have been looking better as well ... especially M1 SS vs M1 Tri-Syn. --- Bror Jace |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
How is being "too slick" detremental to the transmission?
On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:38:32 GMT, "Mista Bone" <MistaB0ne@cinci.rr.com> wrote: >The 1988-2000 Civic SOHC tranny all use the same input shaft bearings. I >myself have never had a "ISB" bearing failure, but I usually have the tranny >out every 15k-20K miles for replacing 1-2 shifter fork, yes I drive >ABUSIVE!!!!! > >The 1996-2000 trannys use a different (steel) shifter fork design that >doesn't break like the 1988-1995 shifter forks. > >They ARE NOT interchangeable. > >Redline MTL leaves behind red GLOBS unless flushed with dino oil. The tranny >in the link was ran with dino oil for 3,000 miles just to see if the problem >was from Redline MTL, but it was too late. > >I've ran Redline MTL for 12k miles. The cold shifting IMPROVEMENT was nice. > >BTW NEVER EVER use synthetic motor oil in a Honda tranny, too slick. > >Bror Jace, I'm seeing others that use the MT-90 doing ok, no problems. |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
How is being "too slick" detremental to the transmission?
On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:38:32 GMT, "Mista Bone" <MistaB0ne@cinci.rr.com> wrote: >The 1988-2000 Civic SOHC tranny all use the same input shaft bearings. I >myself have never had a "ISB" bearing failure, but I usually have the tranny >out every 15k-20K miles for replacing 1-2 shifter fork, yes I drive >ABUSIVE!!!!! > >The 1996-2000 trannys use a different (steel) shifter fork design that >doesn't break like the 1988-1995 shifter forks. > >They ARE NOT interchangeable. > >Redline MTL leaves behind red GLOBS unless flushed with dino oil. The tranny >in the link was ran with dino oil for 3,000 miles just to see if the problem >was from Redline MTL, but it was too late. > >I've ran Redline MTL for 12k miles. The cold shifting IMPROVEMENT was nice. > >BTW NEVER EVER use synthetic motor oil in a Honda tranny, too slick. > >Bror Jace, I'm seeing others that use the MT-90 doing ok, no problems. |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
The brass synchros need to grip the gear face in order to match the gear
speeds. If not you end up forcing the shift, and end up with crunching synchros. -- Charles Tague 93 Honda Civic DX HB 1.6L SOHC VTEC 14.85 @ 89 mph,1.98 60 ft. With ZEX 85 hp ZEX 13.09 @ 103 mph, 1.81 60ft. 86 Pontiac Trans Am 225/50/15 GForce Drag Radials 305 peanut cammed 15.29 @ 88 mph http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/ "Ken White" <ke875s@att.net> wrote in message news:obvhkvccurjb4q8oua4ap4vv9gps584f36@4ax.com... > How is being "too slick" detremental to the transmission? > > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:38:32 GMT, "Mista Bone" > <MistaB0ne@cinci.rr.com> wrote: > > >The 1988-2000 Civic SOHC tranny all use the same input shaft bearings. I > >myself have never had a "ISB" bearing failure, but I usually have the tranny > >out every 15k-20K miles for replacing 1-2 shifter fork, yes I drive > >ABUSIVE!!!!! > > > >The 1996-2000 trannys use a different (steel) shifter fork design that > >doesn't break like the 1988-1995 shifter forks. > > > >They ARE NOT interchangeable. > > > >Redline MTL leaves behind red GLOBS unless flushed with dino oil. The tranny > >in the link was ran with dino oil for 3,000 miles just to see if the problem > >was from Redline MTL, but it was too late. > > > >I've ran Redline MTL for 12k miles. The cold shifting IMPROVEMENT was nice. > > > >BTW NEVER EVER use synthetic motor oil in a Honda tranny, too slick. > > > >Bror Jace, I'm seeing others that use the MT-90 doing ok, no problems. > |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
The brass synchros need to grip the gear face in order to match the gear
speeds. If not you end up forcing the shift, and end up with crunching synchros. -- Charles Tague 93 Honda Civic DX HB 1.6L SOHC VTEC 14.85 @ 89 mph,1.98 60 ft. With ZEX 85 hp ZEX 13.09 @ 103 mph, 1.81 60ft. 86 Pontiac Trans Am 225/50/15 GForce Drag Radials 305 peanut cammed 15.29 @ 88 mph http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/ "Ken White" <ke875s@att.net> wrote in message news:obvhkvccurjb4q8oua4ap4vv9gps584f36@4ax.com... > How is being "too slick" detremental to the transmission? > > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:38:32 GMT, "Mista Bone" > <MistaB0ne@cinci.rr.com> wrote: > > >The 1988-2000 Civic SOHC tranny all use the same input shaft bearings. I > >myself have never had a "ISB" bearing failure, but I usually have the tranny > >out every 15k-20K miles for replacing 1-2 shifter fork, yes I drive > >ABUSIVE!!!!! > > > >The 1996-2000 trannys use a different (steel) shifter fork design that > >doesn't break like the 1988-1995 shifter forks. > > > >They ARE NOT interchangeable. > > > >Redline MTL leaves behind red GLOBS unless flushed with dino oil. The tranny > >in the link was ran with dino oil for 3,000 miles just to see if the problem > >was from Redline MTL, but it was too late. > > > >I've ran Redline MTL for 12k miles. The cold shifting IMPROVEMENT was nice. > > > >BTW NEVER EVER use synthetic motor oil in a Honda tranny, too slick. > > > >Bror Jace, I'm seeing others that use the MT-90 doing ok, no problems. > |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
Sorry I cannot reply to the top message, so I will post here.
I had similar experience with my tranny. I thought the problem was the oil untill I discovered following TSB for our Civic's http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/TSBScans/sb626650.pdf It turned out to be shift lever assembly corrosion. |
Re: 5-speed transmission oil
Sorry I cannot reply to the top message, so I will post here.
I had similar experience with my tranny. I thought the problem was the oil untill I discovered following TSB for our Civic's http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/TSBScans/sb626650.pdf It turned out to be shift lever assembly corrosion. |
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