Paul S

Hi: 4 a.m. in the morning and I'm finally out of the garage and back
at the computer. Having to clean up massive amounts of oil is the
least of my worries, as long as the car OK. You guys were of course
right - it was nothing but that blasted Fram seal stuck there from the
old filter. The funny thing was I had read about this common issue and
even looked for it, but due to weak flashlight batteries and loads of
black crud, the seal just blended right in and I didn't see it.

Linuxiac, your post was highly appreciated. I really needed some
support just after this thing happened, and you provided it at the
right moment. And of course, thanks to everyone else for all of your
expert responses. Jim, I just read about the problematic issues with
Fram oil filters the other day, so that was ironically one of the main
reasons I did the oil tonight (at only 2,000 miles since the last
change)....to put on a different filter. I tried to find Mobil-1 but
couldn't get them locally, so I settled for a Bosch. Believe me, I
won't use Fram again. MIchael, the noise worries me too. I already
feel that the engine sounds a bit "different" idling in the driveway
tonight, but as you say, only time will tell for certain so I'll have
to keep my fingers crossed for now. Thanks to your post, I will know
some things to check in case of future problems. Greg, the noise did
not happen again once sufficient oil was added, but the sound was REAL
BAD while it was actually occurring. Sort of like a demolition crew
was at work under the valve cover.

I hope this is OK, but I also added about 16 ounces of Lucas
synthtetic oil stabilizer. I've never tried this before, but am doing
so on the advice of a friend. Also, I did a bit of light sanding on
the rotors (swirling motion as per Mr. Haynes) with 2000 grit paper,
along with a spray of brake cleaner on the rotors and calipers. Never
done that before either. As long as these two things did not do any
harm, and also assuming the engine is still running smoothly afer a
couple of weeks, then I'll finally be able to put this issue to bed.
And speaking of bed, I think that's where I'll head right now....4:30
a.m. is way out of line for a decent bedtime. Thanks again for all of
the great responses, and I'll post with the final verdict on the
engine once I know more. - Paul

Linuxiac

Paul S wrote:
> Hi: 4 a.m. in the morning and I'm finally out of the garage and back
> at the computer.

Talk about my heart in my throat... Wife took her Civic Del Sol with
80,000 miles to a Jiffy Lube, when I have asked her to let me change the
oil, ALWAYS!

The illegal immigrant jerks pushed her to let them pour a can of diesel
sold as "Engine Cleaner/Flush" for 'only' $9.99 into the baby.

On the way home, the oil light came on, and
the valves went noisey. She was driving for two blocks, at idle speed,
like this.

She shut down in the driveway, immediately. I estimate it ran only
about 20 seconds to 30 seconds, with red light on.

I drained the oil, opened the valve cover, cleaned out what I could of
the weird brown goo, put on a new oil filter, poured in new oil, and ran
it for ten minutes, then did all once again.

Sold the car at 108,000 miles, running perfectly fine, with never any
bad noises, and never to return to any fast lube stores. We can recycle
our drained petro products at any corner auto parts store, and there are
four within a few blocks of home!

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER put ANY additives, flushes, or things other than
proper oil ( I do prefer true synthetics like Amsoil!) into any
mechanical device, such as your auto's engine!


Think of it this way, the factory engineers represent hundreds or
thousands of man years of tested and proven facts. They put out
bulletins, manuals, maintenance schedules based upon decades of experience.

Some well intentioned 'friend' advises the addition of some additive,
and who will buy the new engine or device, and pay the labor? The
'friend'? Ha! At least Amsoil gives a written warranty!

G-Man

I hate FRAM filters, but be warned, I have had the gasket come off of other
brands also. Don't worry about the flashlight. Just look at the filter you
removed and make sure the old gasket is there.

As for the rotor comment. Brake cleaner is not a good choice to clean
rotors. It still leaves residue. I have always washed them down with dish
washing detergent. This is an excellent grease/oil cutter. When you get
done, if you see a GOOD coat of rust forming on them, you know you done
good! Even new rotors out of the box need to be washed like this.

Hope your engine is okay. I can't see where the few minutes you ran it
would cause a lot of damage. Especially since you didn't even have it under
load.

I would deffinatly change the oil at 3k or sooner on your next go-around in
case there is any metal shavings in there (I really doubt it, but why not be
safe).

G-Man

jim beam

Linuxiac wrote:
> Paul S wrote:
>> Hi: 4 a.m. in the morning and I'm finally out of the garage and back
>> at the computer.
>
> Talk about my heart in my throat... Wife took her Civic Del Sol with
> 80,000 miles to a Jiffy Lube, when I have asked her to let me change the
> oil, ALWAYS!
>
> The illegal immigrant jerks pushed her to let them pour a can of diesel
> sold as "Engine Cleaner/Flush" for 'only' $9.99 into the baby.
>
> On the way home, the oil light came on, and
> the valves went noisey. She was driving for two blocks, at idle speed,
> like this.
>
> She shut down in the driveway, immediately. I estimate it ran only
> about 20 seconds to 30 seconds, with red light on.
>
> I drained the oil, opened the valve cover, cleaned out what I could of
> the weird brown goo, put on a new oil filter, poured in new oil, and ran
> it for ten minutes, then did all once again.
>
> Sold the car at 108,000 miles, running perfectly fine, with never any
> bad noises, and never to return to any fast lube stores. We can recycle
> our drained petro products at any corner auto parts store, and there are
> four within a few blocks of home!
>
> NEVER, NEVER, NEVER put ANY additives, flushes, or things other than
> proper oil ( I do prefer true synthetics like Amsoil!) into any
> mechanical device, such as your auto's engine!
>
>
> Think of it this way, the factory engineers represent hundreds or
> thousands of man years of tested and proven facts. They put out
> bulletins, manuals, maintenance schedules based upon decades of experience.
>
> Some well intentioned 'friend' advises the addition of some additive,
> and who will buy the new engine or device, and pay the labor? The
> 'friend'? Ha! At least Amsoil gives a written warranty!

amsoil is no more a "true" synthetic than castrol or any of the other
"synthetics" people complain about. according to their msds info:
http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/...imsdsnr=191522
amsoil just a decane base - in other words refined hydrocracked dino.
so is mobil 1. they're still good quality, but not as popular myth
would have you believe due to formulation changes. mobil 1 is only a
fraction pao these days. only 5% in this formulation:
http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/...imsdsnr=194095
afaict, the only "true" synthetics sold over the counter are red line
and motul.

Paul S

Hi: Regarding the story about your wife's experience, your point is
well taken. I really don't want anymore unexpected mishaps, so I'll
avoid the Lucas or any other oil additives from now on. Been using
5W-20 synthetic Mobil-1 lately, and I'll just keep this pure in the
future. Thanks again. - Paul

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:27:11 -0400, Linuxiac <"2"@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Talk about my heart in my throat... Wife took her Civic Del Sol with
>80,000 miles to a Jiffy Lube, when I have asked her to let me change the
>oil, ALWAYS!
>
>The illegal immigrant jerks pushed her to let them pour a can of diesel
>sold as "Engine Cleaner/Flush" for 'only' $9.99 into the baby.
>
>On the way home, the oil light came on, and
>the valves went noisey. She was driving for two blocks, at idle speed,
>like this.
>
>She shut down in the driveway, immediately. I estimate it ran only
>about 20 seconds to 30 seconds, with red light on.
>
> I drained the oil, opened the valve cover, cleaned out what I could of
>the weird brown goo, put on a new oil filter, poured in new oil, and ran
>it for ten minutes, then did all once again.
>
>Sold the car at 108,000 miles, running perfectly fine, with never any
>bad noises, and never to return to any fast lube stores. We can recycle
>our drained petro products at any corner auto parts store, and there are
>four within a few blocks of home!
>
>NEVER, NEVER, NEVER put ANY additives, flushes, or things other than
>proper oil ( I do prefer true synthetics like Amsoil!) into any
>mechanical device, such as your auto's engine!
>
>
>Think of it this way, the factory engineers represent hundreds or
>thousands of man years of tested and proven facts. They put out
>bulletins, manuals, maintenance schedules based upon decades of experience.
>
>Some well intentioned 'friend' advises the addition of some additive,
>and who will buy the new engine or device, and pay the labor? The
>'friend'? Ha! At least Amsoil gives a written warranty!

Paul S

Thanks, G-Man. I'm gonna change my oil very frequently now that I
finally know how. In fact, I may do so once more in the next day or
two just to make absolutely certain it's free of any shavings. - Paul

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:11:17 -0400, "G-Man" <g_foreman@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>I hate FRAM filters, but be warned, I have had the gasket come off of other
>brands also. Don't worry about the flashlight. Just look at the filter you
>removed and make sure the old gasket is there.
>
>As for the rotor comment. Brake cleaner is not a good choice to clean
>rotors. It still leaves residue. I have always washed them down with dish
>washing detergent. This is an excellent grease/oil cutter. When you get
>done, if you see a GOOD coat of rust forming on them, you know you done
>good! Even new rotors out of the box need to be washed like this.
>
>Hope your engine is okay. I can't see where the few minutes you ran it
>would cause a lot of damage. Especially since you didn't even have it under
>load.
>
>I would deffinatly change the oil at 3k or sooner on your next go-around in
>case there is any metal shavings in there (I really doubt it, but why not be
>safe).
>
>G-Man
>

Thom

There isnt anything wqrong with Lucas additives. Racers trust them in
their mega expensive motors, it will be fine in yours. It works great
in older engines, as does the Tranny additive. 16oz of tranny
additive got me an extra 40K out of my F150, though I wouldnt try it
in a HOnda tranny, it is guaranteed.

Lucas isn't ablte to sponsor an NFL Stadium because he sells junk.
They have been selling in the US forever.

G-Man

Paul,

If it were me, after the next oil change after a 3K+ run, I'd send a sample
to:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com

They will tell you how the engine is doing. I use their service. I only
change my oil avery 7,500 miles, but I use Full Synthetic rated for that
mileage.

They will send you a free kit to collect and mail the sample.

G-Man

Gordon McGrew

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:10:06 -0400, "G-Man" <g_foreman@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Paul,
>
>If it were me, after the next oil change after a 3K+ run, I'd send a sample
>to:
>
>http://www.blackstone-labs.com
>
>They will tell you how the engine is doing. I use their service. I only
>change my oil avery 7,500 miles, but I use Full Synthetic rated for that
>mileage.
>
>They will send you a free kit to collect and mail the sample.
>
>G-Man
>

Also, check the oil level at each fill-up for a while. If it doesn't
burn any then it is OK, though I have to think you took a few thousand
miles off its life with this adventure.

Paul S

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:17:01 -0500, Gordon McGrew
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:

>
>Also, check the oil level at each fill-up for a while. If it doesn't
>burn any then it is OK, though I have to think you took a few thousand
>miles off its life with this adventure.

That is my fear as well....some sort of subtle damage that may not be
overtly or immediately apparent, but which nevertheless could come
back to haunt later on. I did drive the car (an '04 Accord LX) up to
the local DIY carwash tonight, and it really seemed fine as long as it
was moving. While idling in the driveway, though, my wife and I
noticed what sounded like a slight, intermittent metallic "squeal",
although it could just be my paranoid imagination. Later on (after the
car had warmed up) I didn't hear it anymore. Personally, I really
don't feel the quality of this '04 is relatively as good as it was
even in my '92 accord, even though the '04 is more comfortable. The
newer Hondas just seem cheaper and cheaper every year, and sometimes I
think of jumping ship and trying a Toyota next time around. But since
I'm only at 30,000 miles right now, I hopefully won't have to worry
about that any time soon. - Paul S.

Paul S

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:10:06 -0400, "G-Man" <g_foreman@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Paul,
>
>If it were me, after the next oil change after a 3K+ run, I'd send a sample
>to:
>
>http://www.blackstone-labs.com
>
>They will tell you how the engine is doing. I use their service. I only
>change my oil avery 7,500 miles, but I use Full Synthetic rated for that
>mileage.
>
>They will send you a free kit to collect and mail the sample.
>
>G-Man

Thanks, G-Man.....I will definitely try that service. Very glad to
konw about it. I'm running full synthetic now in my '04, though of
course it may not be "full" at all (Mobil-1 5W-20). I'm thinking of
trying Mobil's Extended Performance synthetic so I can go longer
between changes, like maybe 5,000 miles instead of 3,000.

Just curious....what brand and type of oil are you using? Also, what
brand of oil filter? I'd love to go 7,500 between oil changes if I
could. Just ordered an Amsoil oil filter today....at $16 bucks apiece,
this one will break the bank in short order if I have to keep changing
every 3,000 miles. - Paul.

Paul S

On 17 Apr 2007 10:58:21 -0700, Thom <thomcasey@gmail.com> wrote:

>There isnt anything wqrong with Lucas additives. Racers trust them in
>their mega expensive motors, it will be fine in yours. It works great
>in older engines, as does the Tranny additive. 16oz of tranny
>additive got me an extra 40K out of my F150, though I wouldnt try it
>in a HOnda tranny, it is guaranteed.
>

I hear what you're saying, I'm just too scared to be experimental at
the moment. Staring at 4 litres of fresh oil all over your garage
floor is sort of like "Apocalypse Now"....it's enough to give one a
bad case of post-traumatic stress syndrome. On an affirmative note,
though, I have tried the Lucas fuel injection additive (upper cylinder
cleaner) in my '92 accord and LOVED it. What a difference, both in
terms of power and stability. - Paul S.

Joe LaVigne

Paul S wrote:

>
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:17:01 -0500, Gordon McGrew
> <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Also, check the oil level at each fill-up for a while. If it doesn't
>>burn any then it is OK, though I have to think you took a few thousand
>>miles off its life with this adventure.
>
> That is my fear as well....some sort of subtle damage that may not be
> overtly or immediately apparent, but which nevertheless could come
> back to haunt later on. I did drive the car (an '04 Accord LX) up to
> the local DIY carwash tonight, and it really seemed fine as long as it
> was moving. While idling in the driveway, though, my wife and I
> noticed what sounded like a slight, intermittent metallic "squeal",
> although it could just be my paranoid imagination. Later on (after the
> car had warmed up) I didn't hear it anymore. Personally, I really
> don't feel the quality of this '04 is relatively as good as it was
> even in my '92 accord, even though the '04 is more comfortable. The
> newer Hondas just seem cheaper and cheaper every year, and sometimes I
> think of jumping ship and trying a Toyota next time around. But since
> I'm only at 30,000 miles right now, I hopefully won't have to worry
> about that any time soon. - Paul S.

If you were hearing a squeal, you may very well have gotten oil on the belt.
It might be worthwhile to replace it if it continues.

As for the quality, my opinion is the opposite. I always stayed away from
Hondas and Toyotas in the past, because while they had a good reputation,
they felt very cheap to me. Very lightweight, and many were just cheap
looking.

The new ones seem to have maintained exceptional quality in the engine
components, while also beefing up the car to feel more sound. Note: The
old ones may have been sound, but they didn't look or feel it to me, and
that matters.

Also, the older ones seemed to rust pretty quickly in my northern climate
(Buffalo, NY) from the salt, etc. I have seen very few Hondas or Toyotas
from 2000+ that were showing any appreciable rust, unless they had been in
a crash.

G-Man

I am using AMSOIL XL7500 Oil, and Honda Filters. The filters are about
$4-$6.

G-Man


"Paul S" <pauls@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsfra23tbmr0agm7i44pnuqejbsbvovapdm@4ax.com...
>
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:10:06 -0400, "G-Man" <g_foreman@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Paul,
>>
>>If it were me, after the next oil change after a 3K+ run, I'd send a
>>sample
>>to:
>>
>>http://www.blackstone-labs.com
>>
>>They will tell you how the engine is doing. I use their service. I only
>>change my oil avery 7,500 miles, but I use Full Synthetic rated for that
>>mileage.
>>
>>They will send you a free kit to collect and mail the sample.
>>
>>G-Man
>
> Thanks, G-Man.....I will definitely try that service. Very glad to
> konw about it. I'm running full synthetic now in my '04, though of
> course it may not be "full" at all (Mobil-1 5W-20). I'm thinking of
> trying Mobil's Extended Performance synthetic so I can go longer
> between changes, like maybe 5,000 miles instead of 3,000.
>
> Just curious....what brand and type of oil are you using? Also, what
> brand of oil filter? I'd love to go 7,500 between oil changes if I
> could. Just ordered an Amsoil oil filter today....at $16 bucks apiece,
> this one will break the bank in short order if I have to keep changing
> every 3,000 miles. - Paul.
>
>

Michael Pardee

"Thom" <thomcasey@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1176832701.700244.96830@q75g2000hsh.googlegro ups.com...
> There isnt anything wqrong with Lucas additives. Racers trust them in
> their mega expensive motors, it will be fine in yours. It works great
> in older engines, as does the Tranny additive. 16oz of tranny
> additive got me an extra 40K out of my F150, though I wouldnt try it
> in a HOnda tranny, it is guaranteed.
>
> Lucas isn't ablte to sponsor an NFL Stadium because he sells junk.
> They have been selling in the US forever.
>
>
I've had great results with Lucas auto tranny additive in a 20 year old
Volvo but haven't tried any oil additives.

Lucas has a spotty reputation in hardware, though. The tale that Brits drink
warm beer because they have Lucas refrigerators is still good for a chuckle.
Having had a British Leyland car with Lucas electrics I can relate!

Mike