Re: Strut tower brace on '99 Accord
 

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:27:21 GMT, Luigi Topolino
<tifoso@mindspring.com> wrote:


>>> I have the Accord. Other than high speed cornering it's a great car.
>>> I don't have either the time or inclination to become a used car
>>> trader right now, and in the foreseeable future I intend to
>>> performance mod a 70s Alfa and will want and need a reliable commuter.

Your stock '99 Accord will probably beat the mod'd Alfa around any
street course, assuming equal horsepower, and the Accord will probably
have more of that, too.

Newer Accords are even better, or would be on better than stock tires.

You may have to learn different driving technique. Yes, the Accords
are front-heavy, and that never goes away entirely, but they are
generations ahead on technology, and properly driven are vastly
superior to those old Alfas, which couldn't even beat the old BMWs, I
presume the new BMWs are also much improved.

OTOH, I've never thrown the Accords around at high speeds. I did
throw my 1979 Alfetta all over the place, on its stock skinny tires.
It slid around in well-balanced control, but that's NOT the same as
making good time. Tire technology is much better now, among other
things, than back then. What happens if you put modern tires on an
old Alfa? I daresay something would crack, hear me now and believe me
later. No finite element analysis then for cars, and it wasn't built
or tested to those kinds of stresses. Even my 1979 was really just
the very best 1959 technology available.

Wait, actually I did throw around a 1999 CL-6 a bit, a few years ago.
It really wasn't happy, it seemed to me, it held the road, but there
were funny creakings when I stopped, that discouraged further
experimentation along those lines. Yes, the Alfa was happier at that
sort of thing, but did NOT hold the road as well. More fun, but worse
times.


>It's 600-800lbs lighter than a BMW 3series, about the same weight
>distribution. The BMW comes standard with wrist-sized sway bars.

Less weight difference than that, I think.

Aren't all BMW still rear-wheel drive and almost 50/50?

Betcha they come with lower profile tires, too.

List the numbers side by side, I have no idea which models you're
thinking of.


>What's wrong is it rolls over onto the outside front sidewall.

Sounds like wrong tires. Have you tried lower profiles? What kind of
turning are you doing, cranking it full over at 80mph? Hint - Accords
aren't designed for that, BMWs, even street 3xx's, pretty much are (or
were, I haven't followed them for 10+ years).

Does anybody rebuild Accords for high-speed racing? Fast and furious
Civics, sure, tho I have no idea how good or bad those really are.

And you need this on your COMMUTER car?

My man, I'm still an Italophile at heart, but you're never going to
make an Accord handle like an Enzo, ... which seem to be cracking up
here in Los Angeles at an unacceptable frequency anyhow! Better trade
the '99 for an old BMW, and be ready for major disappointment at how
an old Alfa compares to either.

J.

Strut tower brace on '99 Accord - Follow-Up
 

On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 18:26:08 GMT, Luigi Topolino
<tifoso@mindspring.com> wrote:
>My mechanic is telling me he needs to compress the springs and pull
>the struts to add an Acura TL strut tower brace to my Accord: Should I
>find a new mechanic?

Took me all of 20minutes and that's because I rewound a cassette tape
during the process.

The strut mount nuts aren't even used, there are two studs on each
strut tower dedicated to the bar, stock Accord is a tubular bar from
each tower to the cowl, the TL bar has a integrated additional
tower-to-tower tube.

Those four, four nuts on the cowl and a bolt mounting the fuse box to
the bar, and Bob's your Uncle.

Result is a palpable increase in structural rigidity and steering
precision: I forget how much I paid, but the thing is great value for
money.

--

"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."

Re: Strut tower brace on '99 Accord
 

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 03:55:37 GMT, JXStern <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net>
wrote:
>On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:27:21 GMT, Luigi Topolino
><tifoso@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>> I have the Accord. Other than high speed cornering it's a great car.
>>>> I don't have either the time or inclination to become a used car
>>>> trader right now, and in the foreseeable future I intend to
>>>> performance mod a 70s Alfa and will want and need a reliable commuter.
>
>Your stock '99 Accord will probably beat the mod'd Alfa around any
>street course,

I'm not 18.

>assuming equal horsepower, and the Accord will probably
>have more of that, too.

I'll be looking for 180 out of the 2liter Alfa, easy, really; 10.4
Borgos, hot cams, big valves, header and Webers, should sound like
half a 308. Accord's at 150 out of 2.3.

....Or I may go with a G1 S2000. I'd like to do the Alfa myself,
thinking a year out either way.

>Newer Accords are even better, or would be on better than stock tires.

I'd recommend my car highly to 98% of the public, I won't have another
one when this is gone.

>You may have to learn different driving technique. Yes, the Accords
>are front-heavy, and that never goes away entirely, but they are
>generations ahead on technology, and properly driven are vastly
>superior to those old Alfas, which couldn't even beat the old BMWs, I
>presume the new BMWs are also much improved.
>
>OTOH, I've never thrown the Accords around at high speeds. I did
>throw my 1979 Alfetta all over the place, on its stock skinny tires.
>It slid around in well-balanced control, but that's NOT the same as
>making good time. Tire technology is much better now, among other
>things, than back then. What happens if you put modern tires on an
>old Alfa? I daresay something would crack, hear me now and believe me
>later. No finite element analysis then for cars, and it wasn't built
>or tested to those kinds of stresses. Even my 1979 was really just
>the very best 1959 technology available.

Looking for sound, feel and style, not an autocross racer.

>Wait, actually I did throw around a 1999 CL-6 a bit, a few years ago.
>It really wasn't happy, it seemed to me, it held the road, but there
>were funny creakings when I stopped, that discouraged further
>experimentation along those lines. Yes, the Alfa was happier at that
>sort of thing, but did NOT hold the road as well. More fun, but worse
>times.

Fun is the objective,

>>It's 600-800lbs lighter than a BMW 3series, about the same weight
>>distribution. The BMW comes standard with wrist-sized sway bars.
>
>Less weight difference than that, I think.

You're right, 3000 vs 3200 on an 1999 323, but the BMW is a cloth
manual seat window crank unavailable stripper at that weight, in the
real world the 328's about 3500.

>Aren't all BMW still rear-wheel drive and almost 50/50?

Not 50/50. Very nose heavy, twitchy in the rain and useless in snow.

>Betcha they come with lower profile tires, too.

Rubber bands stretched over tuna cans. A significant percentage of
BMW dealers' net profit derives from selling $1000 replacement wheels.

>List the numbers side by side, I have no idea which models you're
>thinking of.
>
>>What's wrong is it rolls over onto the outside front sidewall.
>
>Sounds like wrong tires. Have you tried lower profiles?

Not an option given the roads I drive. There is truly a bathtub sized
pothole on my approach to the George Washington Bridge, for two weeks
now.

>What kind of turning are you doing, cranking it full over at 80mph?

60-ish.

Uninvolved cell-phone addled goat herders driving Town Cars, or
princesses driving TSXs, are a constant hazard.

>Hint - Accords
>aren't designed for that, BMWs, even street 3xx's, pretty much are (or
>were, I haven't followed them for 10+ years).

No they were not designed for that, but they can be modded to stiffen
them up.

>Does anybody rebuild Accords for high-speed racing? Fast and furious
>Civics, sure, tho I have no idea how good or bad those really are.

American Touring Car series.

>And you need this on your COMMUTER car?

Yes. Greater control and predictability are elements of dynamic
safety, and improve this driver's satisfaction index.

>My man, I'm still an Italophile at heart, but you're never going to
>make an Accord handle like an Enzo, ... which seem to be cracking up
>here in Los Angeles at an unacceptable frequency anyhow! Better trade
>the '99 for an old BMW, and be ready for major disappointment at how
>an old Alfa compares to either.

I know an Accord will never turn in like a 355, but it could be and
will be a good deal sharper and more stable.

--

"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."

Re: Strut tower brace on '99 Accord
 

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:43:22 GMT, "l390f" <yahoo@tox8.org> wrote:
>your best bang for the buck is front/rear anti sway bars.

Yes, I get that, thanks.

>Suspension
>Techniques makes a nice set that requires no drilling, only existing bolt
>mounting points are used.

I'll have a look.

So far it seems Intrax is what I'm looking for, they do titanium shock
sets for the F355, ffs!

--

"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."

Re: Strut tower brace on '99 Accord
 

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:11:33 GMT, Luigi Topolino
<tifoso@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>Your stock '99 Accord will probably beat the mod'd Alfa around any
>>street course,
>
>I'm not 18.

How is that relevant?

>>assuming equal horsepower, and the Accord will probably
>>have more of that, too.
>
>I'll be looking for 180 out of the 2liter Alfa, easy, really; 10.4
>Borgos, hot cams, big valves, header and Webers, should sound like
>half a 308. Accord's at 150 out of 2.3.

New Accords get 164 out of 2.4, and the area under the curve is much
broader. And then there's the six! But glad to see you have the
four.

>...Or I may go with a G1 S2000. I'd like to do the Alfa myself,
>thinking a year out either way.
>
>>Newer Accords are even better, or would be on better than stock tires.
>
>I'd recommend my car highly to 98% of the public, I won't have another
>one when this is gone.

Go test drive the new model. Seriously. You can feel the improved
balance in two seconds. Just so you know.

>>or tested to those kinds of stresses. Even my 1979 was really just
>>the very best 1959 technology available.
>
>Looking for sound, feel and style, not an autocross racer.

I admit it, I bought the Alfa after hearing another one zip by me on
the street in too low a gear, it sounded FANTASTIC! Oh, and the
classy brochure! Stock Hondas have zero of that.

>>Wait, actually I did throw around a 1999 CL-6 a bit, a few years ago.
>>It really wasn't happy, it seemed to me, it held the road, but there
>>were funny creakings when I stopped, that discouraged further
>>experimentation along those lines. Yes, the Alfa was happier at that
>>sort of thing, but did NOT hold the road as well. More fun, but worse
>>times.
>
>Fun is the objective,

Yah. Well, an old Car & Driver recommended boy racers go out and buy
an old VW Microbus, 66hp, you can play boy racer all day long, and
nobody even knows it! Me, driving in modern Los Angeles, there is no
fun. Sniff. Just TMC. Sniff.


>>>It's 600-800lbs lighter than a BMW 3series, about the same weight
>>>distribution. The BMW comes standard with wrist-sized sway bars.
>>
>>Less weight difference than that, I think.
>
>You're right, 3000 vs 3200 on an 1999 323, but the BMW is a cloth
>manual seat window crank unavailable stripper at that weight, in the
>real world the 328's about 3500.

You talking Accord coupe? OK, that's a little lighter, but don't they
street at 3200, plus or minus air and such?

>>Aren't all BMW still rear-wheel drive and almost 50/50?
>
>Not 50/50. Very nose heavy, twitchy in the rain and useless in snow.
>
>>Betcha they come with lower profile tires, too.
>
>Rubber bands stretched over tuna cans. A significant percentage of
>BMW dealers' net profit derives from selling $1000 replacement wheels.
>
>>List the numbers side by side, I have no idea which models you're
>>thinking of.
>>
>>>What's wrong is it rolls over onto the outside front sidewall.
>>
>>Sounds like wrong tires. Have you tried lower profiles?
>
>Not an option given the roads I drive. There is truly a bathtub sized
>pothole on my approach to the George Washington Bridge, for two weeks
>now.

I had the wrong tires on my 87 Accord way back, it would practically
roll off them turning the corner at 20mph. High profile, but putting
on something like the then-stock Michelins that all went away. But
seriously, if you want handling, sticking with high-profiles is going
to be a serious limitation.

>>What kind of turning are you doing, cranking it full over at 80mph?
>
>60-ish.

Do that in LA and you're a statistic, no matter the vehicle.

>Uninvolved cell-phone addled goat herders driving Town Cars, or
>princesses driving TSXs, are a constant hazard.

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused.

>>Hint - Accords
>>aren't designed for that, BMWs, even street 3xx's, pretty much are (or
>>were, I haven't followed them for 10+ years).
>
>No they were not designed for that, but they can be modded to stiffen
>them up.
>
>>Does anybody rebuild Accords for high-speed racing? Fast and furious
>>Civics, sure, tho I have no idea how good or bad those really are.
>
>American Touring Car series.
>
>>And you need this on your COMMUTER car?
>
>Yes. Greater control and predictability are elements of dynamic
>safety, and improve this driver's satisfaction index.

I admit it, I'm older than I used to be. Time was I'd take any new
car out and toss it around a few corners to see how it drifted, I
learned that in (and before!) my Alfa. Now, if I have a high-speed
emergency, I'm less prepared. Fortunately my car is MUCH better
prepared. Looks like in five or ten years we'll have dynamic
stability on new cars. In twenty we'll probably have complete
autopilots, might be illegal to drive manually much after that, at
least in the city. I miss the old Alfa, sort of, if not the scheduled
maintenance bills.


>>My man, I'm still an Italophile at heart, but you're never going to
>>make an Accord handle like an Enzo, ... which seem to be cracking up
>>here in Los Angeles at an unacceptable frequency anyhow! Better trade
>>the '99 for an old BMW, and be ready for major disappointment at how
>>an old Alfa compares to either.
>
>I know an Accord will never turn in like a 355, but it could be and
>will be a good deal sharper and more stable.

I'll just envision you doing the Lincoln Tunnel like in Men In Black.

J.