Timing belts
I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl. If the timing belt
breaks, will it cause extensive engine damage? The manual on the V6 is unclear when to change the belt it says to change it at 60,000 miles if you drive in very hot or cold conditions. I do not have a manual for the 4 cyl, it was a used car. It has 94,000 on it now and runs perfectly. |
Re: Timing belts
"Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote in message news:OqOdnawJ9P6blabUnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com ... >I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl. If the timing >belt breaks, will it cause extensive engine damage? > > The manual on the V6 is unclear when to change the belt it says to > change it at 60,000 miles if you drive in very hot or cold > conditions. I do not have a manual for the 4 cyl, it was a used car. > It has 94,000 on it now and runs perfectly. > > > I believe the recommended change period is 105K miles or 7 years under normal conditions. My own interpretation of very hot has always been desert type conditions (Death Valley, Sahara), very cold would be similar to the northern Midwest areas and Canada/Alaska for the 60k change. The key is not just the belt itself, but the internal cords/fibers that do not allow the belt to stretch, which are usually made from Kevlar/Twaron (both are aramid type high tensile fibers). I'm not sure if the base OEM Honda belts are rubber, HSN or carbon fiber type (I would suspect that they may be the one of the latter two, as at some point in the 90's they increased the recommended belt change interval by a fairly large amount). Here are a couple of articles you may want to read....especially the thermal properties of the Kevlar and interference engines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timing_belt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevlar The potential damage from a broken belt is quite extensive, and you may or may not see any symptoms. |
Re: Timing belts
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 09:13:40 -0500, L Alpert wrote:
> "Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote in message > news:OqOdnawJ9P6blabUnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com ... >>I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl. If the timing belt >>breaks, will it cause extensive engine damage? >> >> The manual on the V6 is unclear when to change the belt it says to >> change it at 60,000 miles if you drive in very hot or cold conditions. >> I do not have a manual for the 4 cyl, it was a used car. It has 94,000 >> on it now and runs perfectly. >> >> >> >> > I believe the recommended change period is 105K miles or 7 years under > normal conditions. My own interpretation of very hot has always been > desert type conditions (Death Valley, Sahara), very cold would be > similar to the northern Midwest areas and Canada/Alaska for the 60k > change. > > The key is not just the belt itself, but the internal cords/fibers that > do not allow the belt to stretch, which are usually made from > Kevlar/Twaron (both are aramid type high tensile fibers). I'm not sure > if the base OEM Honda belts are rubber, HSN or carbon fiber type (I > would suspect that they may be the one of the latter two, as at some > point in the 90's they increased the recommended belt change interval by > a fairly large amount). > > Here are a couple of articles you may want to read....especially the > thermal properties of the Kevlar and interference engines. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timing_belt irc, kevlar is subject to accelerated fatigue when subject to humidity, so i believe the cords in high quality timing belts are usually glass fiber. the above link does allude to glass fiber use, although not in detail. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevlar > > The potential damage from a broken belt is quite extensive, with an interference engine > and you may > or may not see any symptoms. ....prior to breakage. |
Re: Timing belts
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message news:2WR_k.22788$k66.19344@fe03.news.easynews.com. .. > On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 09:13:40 -0500, L Alpert wrote: > >> "Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote in message >> news:OqOdnawJ9P6blabUnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com ... >>>I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl. If the timing >>>belt >>>breaks, will it cause extensive engine damage? >>> >>> The manual on the V6 is unclear when to change the belt it says to >>> change it at 60,000 miles if you drive in very hot or cold >>> conditions. >>> I do not have a manual for the 4 cyl, it was a used car. It has >>> 94,000 >>> on it now and runs perfectly. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> I believe the recommended change period is 105K miles or 7 years >> under >> normal conditions. My own interpretation of very hot has always >> been >> desert type conditions (Death Valley, Sahara), very cold would be >> similar to the northern Midwest areas and Canada/Alaska for the 60k >> change. >> >> The key is not just the belt itself, but the internal cords/fibers >> that >> do not allow the belt to stretch, which are usually made from >> Kevlar/Twaron (both are aramid type high tensile fibers). I'm not >> sure >> if the base OEM Honda belts are rubber, HSN or carbon fiber type (I >> would suspect that they may be the one of the latter two, as at >> some >> point in the 90's they increased the recommended belt change >> interval by >> a fairly large amount). >> >> Here are a couple of articles you may want to read....especially >> the >> thermal properties of the Kevlar and interference engines. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timing_belt > > irc, kevlar is subject to accelerated fatigue when subject to > humidity, so > i believe the cords in high quality timing belts are usually glass > fiber. > the above link does allude to glass fiber use, although not in > detail. "Glass fiber" is a misnomer, as it still uses a polymer carrier (ie, flass filled kevlar) as far as I last was aware of. Polymer with 30%-33% glass fiber by weight is usually what you will find in most industries. The higher percentages the more prone it will be to fracture at a specific radius due to extremely high flex modulus. > > > > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevlar >> >> The potential damage from a broken belt is quite extensive, > > with an interference engine > > > >> and you may >> or may not see any symptoms. > > ...prior to breakage. > |
Re: Timing belts
Anon wrote:
> I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl. If the timing belt > breaks, will it cause extensive engine damage? http://www.gates.com/part_locator/in...o=Interference Most belt driven Hondas run interfering valves that will be extremely unhappy if the piston/valve timing fails. > The manual on the V6 is unclear when to change the belt it says to change it > at 60,000 miles if you drive in very hot or cold conditions. > I do not have a > manual for the 4 cyl, it was a used car. It has 94,000 on it now and runs > perfectly. Unless you can determine with some certainty that the belt has been changed, you should start thinking about getting it done. As mentioned, ~100K is the highest likely service interval. As the belt ages, it will become statistically more likely to break. If it's a 100K belt, you'd be 'fairly' safe for another 10~20K, (and it's not 100% guaranteed to break at 150K.) But each passing mile increases the odds (at an increasing rate!) of a VERY expensive boo-boo. A belt inspection might be possible with little effort/cost. Find what belt Honda uses for OEM, and how they are labled. If you find something different (aftermarket), you'll know that someone changed it, presumably sometime near the service interval. If you find a Honda belt, there might (???) be a date code or batch number indicating it's age. |
Re: Timing belts
"Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote in message news:OqOdnawJ9P6blabUnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com ... >I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl. If the timing >belt breaks, will it cause extensive engine damage? > > The manual on the V6 is unclear when to change the belt it says to > change it at 60,000 miles if you drive in very hot or cold > conditions. I do not have a manual for the 4 cyl, it was a used car. > It has 94,000 on it now and runs perfectly. > > > You 2002 4 cylinder may not be a belt, it "may" be a timing chain, in which case, no worries. Look at the thread just below this one about an 03 4 cylinder, in the 03s, the 6 cylinder is a set of belts, BUT the 4 cylinder is a timing chain. I'm not sure what year this started for the 4, but maybe you get lucky on that one. |
Re: Timing belts
"Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote
>I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl. Both are timing belts, not chains, as a quick check of bkhondaparts.com shows. For both of these, in the owner's manual under "maintenance schedule," it says to change the belt at 105k miles/7 years, whichever comes first. So the 2001 is overdue in my book. The 2002 is almost due. > If the timing belt breaks, will it cause extensive engine > damage? These are both interference engines and so there is a high risk of engine damage if the timing belt fails in any way. > The manual on the V6 is unclear It is clear in the "maintenance schedule" section of the manual. You can see an owner's manual for any Honda car via site https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/logon.asp |
Re: Timing belts
Steve L wrote:
> You 2002 4 cylinder may not be a belt, it "may" be a timing chain, in > which case, no worries. Look at the thread just below this one about > an 03 4 cylinder, in the 03s, the 6 cylinder is a set of belts, BUT > the 4 cylinder is a timing chain. I'm not sure what year this started > for the 4, but maybe you get lucky on that one. 2003 was the first year that the Accord's 4-banger was chain-driven. So this 2002 in question has a belt. |
Re: Timing belts
Thanks to everyone that provided information and links.
It really sucks that I'll have to spend $800-$1000 on my 2001 Honda V6. The car only has 24000 miles on it but is 7 years old. That almost makes me want to trade it in for a new car, one that doesn't use a belt that cost mega bucks to change. |
Re: Timing belts
Anon wrote:
> Thanks to everyone that provided information and links. > > It really sucks that I'll have to spend $800-$1000 on my 2001 Honda V6. The > car only has 24000 miles on it but is 7 years old. That almost makes me want > to trade it in for a new car, one that doesn't use a belt that cost mega > bucks to change. > > > Hi, You have to see that belt change is time consuming and also it is good time to to the water pump while at it. Belt itself does not cost much. Some cars have timing chain. |
Re: Timing belts
"Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:i_X_k.12467$ED.7167@newsfe22.iad... > Anon wrote: >> Thanks to everyone that provided information and links. >> >> It really sucks that I'll have to spend $800-$1000 on my 2001 Honda V6. >> The car only has 24000 miles on it but is 7 years old. That almost makes >> me want to trade it in for a new car, one that doesn't use a belt that >> cost mega bucks to change. >> >> >> > Hi, > You have to see that belt change is time consuming and also it is good > time to to the water pump while at it. Belt itself does not cost much. > Some cars have timing chain. If Honda is going to use a part that must be changed as part of the routine eminence schedule, it should be designed so it is easy to change. I consider it poor design. |
Re: Timing belts
"Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote
> If Honda is going to use a part that must be changed as > part of the routine eminence schedule, it should be > designed so it is easy to change. I consider it poor > design. How would you improve on this design? Have you run the numbers to see whether it pays more to replace the TB and keep the car vs. buying a new one? Once every 7 years/105k miles is not routine. The typical Honda owner probably changes the TB exactly once while owning the car, after all. |
Re: Timing belts
Anon wrote:
> "Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message > news:i_X_k.12467$ED.7167@newsfe22.iad... >> Anon wrote: >>> Thanks to everyone that provided information and links. >>> >>> It really sucks that I'll have to spend $800-$1000 on my 2001 Honda V6. >>> The car only has 24000 miles on it but is 7 years old. That almost makes >>> me want to trade it in for a new car, one that doesn't use a belt that >>> cost mega bucks to change. >>> >>> >>> >> Hi, >> You have to see that belt change is time consuming and also it is good >> time to to the water pump while at it. Belt itself does not cost much. >> Some cars have timing chain. > > If Honda is going to use a part that must be changed as part of the routine > eminence schedule, it should be designed so it is easy to change. I consider > it poor design. > > Hmmm, Designing something involves many factors. It is not as simple as you might think. What is your definition of poor design? If you don't like to spend some $$ at 100K miles or so, is it poor design? I think not. |
Re: Timing belts
"Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote in message news:yGY_k.3239$uS1.636@newsfe19.iad... > "Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote >> If Honda is going to use a part that must be changed as part of the >> routine eminence schedule, it should be designed so it is easy to change. >> I consider it poor design. > > How would you improve on this design? > > Have you run the numbers to see whether it pays more to replace the TB and > keep the car vs. buying a new one? > > Once every 7 years/105k miles is not routine. The typical Honda owner > probably changes the TB exactly once while owning the car, after all. > I would say it is more likely that most Honda owners do not keep their car for 7 years. They unload them before this expensive, necessary belt change is due. |
Re: Timing belts
"Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote >> "Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote >>> If Honda is going to use a part that must be changed as >>> part of the routine eminence schedule, it should be >>> designed so it is easy to change. I consider it poor >>> design. >> >> How would you improve on this design? >> >> Have you run the numbers to see whether it pays more to >> replace the TB and keep the car vs. buying a new one? >> >> Once every 7 years/105k miles is not routine. The typical >> Honda owner probably changes the TB exactly once while >> owning the car, after all. >> > > I would say it is more likely that most Honda owners do > not keep their car for 7 years. They unload them before > this expensive, necessary belt change is due. Many people trade in their Hondas (among other car makes) for a new car when the timing belt is due because they cannot do simple financial calculations. Keeping a car for 14 years/210k miles and spending $1000 once for a timing belt in that period is an excellent financial choice compared to buying a new car every 7 years/105k miles. As importantly, do you know of a car make that is clearly more reliable, and so is less costly to maintain, that costs less to purchase than a Honda? |
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