Re: Tire Gauge?
 

"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0501221555360.7529@alumni.engin .umich.edu...
>
> Nope. There is nothing inherent in dial-type construction that makes these
> gauges more accurate than stick-type gauges. There are good and bad
> examples of all kinds of tire gauges (digital, dial and stick).

That isn't quite accurate, Daniel. The stick type gauges have a
considerable friction component which a decent Bourdon tube gauge
will not have. The friction in a stick type gauge can vary a lot with
moisture, temperature, wear, mechanical deformation, etc. The Bourdon type
has its weaknesses too, I'll admit.

I have not seen a good quality stick type gauge in a long time, and have
certainly looked for one. Paid rather dearly for a supposedly good tractor
type gauge (because it is supposed to be resistant to water which is common
in tractor tires), and it wasn't very good either.

These little cheapo stick type gauges you pick up for a few dollars at parts
stores or Walmart are about as accurate and dependable as Stari Arbat
watches.

Re: Tire Gauge?
 

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005, HLS wrote:

> > There are good and bad examples of all kinds of tire gauges (digital,
> > dial and stick).

> That isn't quite accurate, Daniel.

It is quite accurate as stated. Good gauges are better than bad gauges,
period. There's no manufactured product that MBAs can't entice the Chinese
to make a little cheaper and a little shittier.

> I have not seen a good quality stick type gauge in a long time,

Nevertheless, they exist. I own a few.

> These little cheapo stick type gauges you pick up for a few dollars at
> parts stores or Walmart are about as accurate and dependable as Stari
> Arbat watches.

No debate there!

DS

Re: Tire Gauge?
 

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005, HLS wrote:

> > There are good and bad examples of all kinds of tire gauges (digital,
> > dial and stick).

> That isn't quite accurate, Daniel.

It is quite accurate as stated. Good gauges are better than bad gauges,
period. There's no manufactured product that MBAs can't entice the Chinese
to make a little cheaper and a little shittier.

> I have not seen a good quality stick type gauge in a long time,

Nevertheless, they exist. I own a few.

> These little cheapo stick type gauges you pick up for a few dollars at
> parts stores or Walmart are about as accurate and dependable as Stari
> Arbat watches.

No debate there!

DS

Re: Tire Gauge?
 

For the archives, along with others' reports:

I checked Autozone's, Pep Boys', and Wal-Mart's selection. I ended up with
a dial gage with 1-psi increments, ranging from 0 to 70 psi, fairly easy to
read, with purge valve and large-headed chuck. The large chuck makes all
the difference: I can fit it on my tires' valve stem, with no leakage, very
easily. It "remembers" the pressure, so when you remove it, the last
pressure reading still shows. (Press the purge valve, and it returns to
zero.) The gage is made by Campbell-Hausfeld in China. It retailed for
about $13. Pep Boys wanted about $4 more for a comparable gage.

I just tried it out, and it makes life *a lot* easier. I don't need valve
extensions to use it easily. I'm keeping it.

Dunno how the calibration will last, of course, but I appreciate the many
other posts that talk about this.

My tires seem to lose about 2 psi a month, summer and winter. Of course I
only check after the car has been sitting all night. I try to keep them at
about 28-28.5 psi on my 1991 Honda Civic LX, 160k miles. This is above the
spec of 26 psi, but I am experimenting, per many posts in the archives on
overinflating tires a bit, at the sacrifice of a smoother ride but better
mileage.

Thanks folks for all the input. It's a seemingly rinky-dink thing but I've
never had significant uneven wear on this car's tires, and hopefully,
following the protocol above, I never will.

Re: Tire Gauge?
 

For the archives, along with others' reports:

I checked Autozone's, Pep Boys', and Wal-Mart's selection. I ended up with
a dial gage with 1-psi increments, ranging from 0 to 70 psi, fairly easy to
read, with purge valve and large-headed chuck. The large chuck makes all
the difference: I can fit it on my tires' valve stem, with no leakage, very
easily. It "remembers" the pressure, so when you remove it, the last
pressure reading still shows. (Press the purge valve, and it returns to
zero.) The gage is made by Campbell-Hausfeld in China. It retailed for
about $13. Pep Boys wanted about $4 more for a comparable gage.

I just tried it out, and it makes life *a lot* easier. I don't need valve
extensions to use it easily. I'm keeping it.

Dunno how the calibration will last, of course, but I appreciate the many
other posts that talk about this.

My tires seem to lose about 2 psi a month, summer and winter. Of course I
only check after the car has been sitting all night. I try to keep them at
about 28-28.5 psi on my 1991 Honda Civic LX, 160k miles. This is above the
spec of 26 psi, but I am experimenting, per many posts in the archives on
overinflating tires a bit, at the sacrifice of a smoother ride but better
mileage.

Thanks folks for all the input. It's a seemingly rinky-dink thing but I've
never had significant uneven wear on this car's tires, and hopefully,
following the protocol above, I never will.

Re: Tire Gauge?
 

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005, HLS wrote:
>
>
>>>There are good and bad examples of all kinds of tire gauges (digital,
>>>dial and stick).
>
>
>>That isn't quite accurate, Daniel.
>
>
> It is quite accurate as stated. Good gauges are better than bad gauges,
> period. There's no manufactured product that MBAs can't entice the Chinese
> to make a little cheaper and a little shittier.
>
>
>>I have not seen a good quality stick type gauge in a long time,
>
>
> Nevertheless, they exist. I own a few.

I remember when a Parker Tru-Flate was a quality product. A bit
difficult to use, but generally accurate.

>>These little cheapo stick type gauges you pick up for a few dollars at
>>parts stores or Walmart are about as accurate and dependable as Stari
>>Arbat watches.
>
>
> No debate there!

Where does one find a "quality" one then? Many of the dial-type
or digital readout gauges tend to be more accurate than the easy
to find pen-type gauges.

Re: Tire Gauge?
 

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005, HLS wrote:
>
>
>>>There are good and bad examples of all kinds of tire gauges (digital,
>>>dial and stick).
>
>
>>That isn't quite accurate, Daniel.
>
>
> It is quite accurate as stated. Good gauges are better than bad gauges,
> period. There's no manufactured product that MBAs can't entice the Chinese
> to make a little cheaper and a little shittier.
>
>
>>I have not seen a good quality stick type gauge in a long time,
>
>
> Nevertheless, they exist. I own a few.

I remember when a Parker Tru-Flate was a quality product. A bit
difficult to use, but generally accurate.

>>These little cheapo stick type gauges you pick up for a few dollars at
>>parts stores or Walmart are about as accurate and dependable as Stari
>>Arbat watches.
>
>
> No debate there!

Where does one find a "quality" one then? Many of the dial-type
or digital readout gauges tend to be more accurate than the easy
to find pen-type gauges.

Re: Tire Gauge?
 

y_p_w <y_p_w@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:wsYId.4005$r27.3136@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net:


> Where does one find a "quality" one then? Many of the dial-type
> or digital readout gauges tend to be more accurate than the easy
> to find pen-type gauges.
>


I have three tire gauges:
A $5 El Cheapo metal pen-type with a plastic plunger
An expensive all-metal pen-type that's 40 years old
A $30 dial-type that's new and has been coddled since I opened the package.

All three read within a pound of each other.

--
TeGGeR®

Re: Tire Gauge?
 

y_p_w <y_p_w@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:wsYId.4005$r27.3136@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net:


> Where does one find a "quality" one then? Many of the dial-type
> or digital readout gauges tend to be more accurate than the easy
> to find pen-type gauges.
>


I have three tire gauges:
A $5 El Cheapo metal pen-type with a plastic plunger
An expensive all-metal pen-type that's 40 years old
A $30 dial-type that's new and has been coddled since I opened the package.

All three read within a pound of each other.

--
TeGGeR®

Re: Tire Gauge?
 

Sparky wrote:
> do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com wrote:

> > Dial guages can be as accurate as pencil guages, but
> > when Consumer Reports last tested guages, in 2/1993,
> > all of the least-accurate guages (off by +- 4 PSI
> > average) were of the dial type,
>
> That's a long time ago, dude.

True, but the results were so consistent that I doubt they've changed
much over the years. Their previous evaluation was published around
2/1987.

> > and no pencil-type guage erred more than +- 2 PSI. The
> > most accurate pencil-type guages have shims at the end
> > of their coil spring for calibration.
>
> But don't the stick type guages lend themselves more easily to being
> misread (which can make the reading way off)?

They are harder to read than dial and digital guages, but I don't see
how they could be misread by more than 1 PSI, and that's only when the
markings are in 2 PSI increments.

Re: Tire Gauge?
 

Sparky wrote:
> do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com wrote:

> > Dial guages can be as accurate as pencil guages, but
> > when Consumer Reports last tested guages, in 2/1993,
> > all of the least-accurate guages (off by +- 4 PSI
> > average) were of the dial type,
>
> That's a long time ago, dude.

True, but the results were so consistent that I doubt they've changed
much over the years. Their previous evaluation was published around
2/1987.

> > and no pencil-type guage erred more than +- 2 PSI. The
> > most accurate pencil-type guages have shims at the end
> > of their coil spring for calibration.
>
> But don't the stick type guages lend themselves more easily to being
> misread (which can make the reading way off)?

They are harder to read than dial and digital guages, but I don't see
how they could be misread by more than 1 PSI, and that's only when the
markings are in 2 PSI increments.

Re: Tire Gauge?
 

do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com wrote:

> Sparky wrote:
>
>>do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>
>>>Dial guages can be as accurate as pencil guages, but
>>>when Consumer Reports last tested guages, in 2/1993,
>>>all of the least-accurate guages (off by +- 4 PSI
>>>average) were of the dial type,
>>
>>That's a long time ago, dude.
>
>
> True, but the results were so consistent that I doubt they've changed
> much over the years. Their previous evaluation was published around
> 2/1987.
>
>
>>>and no pencil-type guage erred more than +- 2 PSI. The
>>>most accurate pencil-type guages have shims at the end
>>>of their coil spring for calibration.
>>
>>But don't the stick type guages lend themselves more easily to being
>>misread (which can make the reading way off)?
>
>
> They are harder to read than dial and digital guages, but I don't see
> how they could be misread by more than 1 PSI, and that's only when the
> markings are in 2 PSI increments.

However - my experience is that they don't always shoot to the same
point every time - even the good ones.

Re: Tire Gauge?
 

do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com wrote:

> Sparky wrote:
>
>>do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>
>>>Dial guages can be as accurate as pencil guages, but
>>>when Consumer Reports last tested guages, in 2/1993,
>>>all of the least-accurate guages (off by +- 4 PSI
>>>average) were of the dial type,
>>
>>That's a long time ago, dude.
>
>
> True, but the results were so consistent that I doubt they've changed
> much over the years. Their previous evaluation was published around
> 2/1987.
>
>
>>>and no pencil-type guage erred more than +- 2 PSI. The
>>>most accurate pencil-type guages have shims at the end
>>>of their coil spring for calibration.
>>
>>But don't the stick type guages lend themselves more easily to being
>>misread (which can make the reading way off)?
>
>
> They are harder to read than dial and digital guages, but I don't see
> how they could be misread by more than 1 PSI, and that's only when the
> markings are in 2 PSI increments.

However - my experience is that they don't always shoot to the same
point every time - even the good ones.

Re: Tire Gauge?
 

"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0501231114310.2512@alumni.engin .umich.edu...
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005, HLS wrote:
>


> It is quite accurate as stated. Good gauges are better than bad gauges,
> period. There's no manufactured product that MBAs can't entice the Chinese
> to make a little cheaper and a little shittier.

The statement I quibble with is that a stick type gauge can inherently be as
reproducible and accurate as a Bourdon type, assuming equal quality of
manufacturing.

They aren't, for the reasons I mentioned. The friction component is too
variable in the common stick designs. Admittedly, quality construction can
improve the performance.

These little Bourdon type gauges used on cheap cigarette lighter compressors
are all but worthless.

'Dead weight' gauges can be very accurate and have been used to calibrate
Bourdon types, BUT a stick gauge is not a dead weight gauge
even though there are some similarities.

Electronic gauges can give impressive readouts, but the pressure sensing
device itself can be a weak point. They sometimes wander in accuracy.

But then, who wants to know the exact pressure to 0.1 psi?? It is uselessy
finicky to worry about this in passenger applications. If the tires are
within a couple of pounds of each other, it is better than good enough for
most people. If you are on the pole for Ferrari F1, you have a reason for a
bit more careful measurements.

Re: Tire Gauge?
 

"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0501231114310.2512@alumni.engin .umich.edu...
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005, HLS wrote:
>


> It is quite accurate as stated. Good gauges are better than bad gauges,
> period. There's no manufactured product that MBAs can't entice the Chinese
> to make a little cheaper and a little shittier.

The statement I quibble with is that a stick type gauge can inherently be as
reproducible and accurate as a Bourdon type, assuming equal quality of
manufacturing.

They aren't, for the reasons I mentioned. The friction component is too
variable in the common stick designs. Admittedly, quality construction can
improve the performance.

These little Bourdon type gauges used on cheap cigarette lighter compressors
are all but worthless.

'Dead weight' gauges can be very accurate and have been used to calibrate
Bourdon types, BUT a stick gauge is not a dead weight gauge
even though there are some similarities.

Electronic gauges can give impressive readouts, but the pressure sensing
device itself can be a weak point. They sometimes wander in accuracy.

But then, who wants to know the exact pressure to 0.1 psi?? It is uselessy
finicky to worry about this in passenger applications. If the tires are
within a couple of pounds of each other, it is better than good enough for
most people. If you are on the pole for Ferrari F1, you have a reason for a
bit more careful measurements.