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Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
Really ... Where are wouldbe Toyota buyers turning now first? Wouldn't
it be Honda? I wonder if there are any indication of this yet. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
On Jan 27, 11:41 am, "Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote:
> Really ... Where are wouldbe Toyota buyers turning now first? Wouldn't > it be Honda? I wonder if there are any indication of this yet. As a matter of fact, we just took delivery of a Honda Pilot Touring, after test-driving the Toyota Venza. My wife absolutely hated the fly- by-wire steering. It's like a remote-controlled vehicle. It goes where you point it but there is no feedback. We also looked at the new GMC Acadia, bit too Tonka-toy for me. We have twin Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredos, with 140K miles so need reliability for long road trips. The Honda seemed a generation ahead of the others, and the new Jeeps are mere shadows of the old "real" Jeeps. And the Consumer's Report didn't help either. Remarkably, we had few problems with the Jeeps, and I used to drive from Dallas to Sacramento for the Jazz Jubilee, each year. The Honda is bigger, quieter, more fuel- efficient, more automated, more seats (can snug 8 people into one.) Just more of what we wanted and less of what we didn't want. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
On Jan 27, 3:34 pm, billzz <bil...@wildblue.net> wrote:
> On Jan 27, 11:41 am, "Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote: > > > Really ... Where are wouldbe Toyota buyers turning now first? Wouldn't > > it be Honda? I wonder if there are any indication of this yet. > > As a matter of fact, we just took delivery of a Honda Pilot Touring, > after test-driving the Toyota Venza. My wife absolutely hated the fly- > by-wire steering. It's like a remote-controlled vehicle. It goes > where you point it but there is no feedback. We also looked at the > new GMC Acadia, bit too Tonka-toy for me. We have twin Jeep Grand > Cherokee Laredos, with 140K miles so need reliability for long road > trips. The Honda seemed a generation ahead of the others, and the new > Jeeps are mere shadows of the old "real" Jeeps. And the Consumer's > Report didn't help either. Remarkably, we had few problems with the > Jeeps, and I used to drive from Dallas to Sacramento for the Jazz > Jubilee, each year. The Honda is bigger, quieter, more fuel- > efficient, more automated, more seats (can snug 8 people into one.) > Just more of what we wanted and less of what we didn't want. I still have respect for Toyota, however, a once highly regarded reputation will now take some time to recover from this. I've been trying to find out if Toyota utilizes Drive-by-Wire technology that Honda uses as their throttle system. Wondering if this design is to fault or not. Any thoughts? Chris www.makingcarsense.com http://www.makingcarsense.com/post/t...2010/1079.aspx |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
"billzz" <billzz@wildblue.net> wrote in message news:83105773-8374-4411-9a03-1f3b90c3de51@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com... > On Jan 27, 11:41 am, "Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote: >> Really ... Where are wouldbe Toyota buyers turning now first? Wouldn't >> it be Honda? I wonder if there are any indication of this yet. > > As a matter of fact, we just took delivery of a Honda Pilot Touring, > after test-driving the Toyota Venza. My wife absolutely hated the fly- > by-wire steering. It's like a remote-controlled vehicle. It goes > where you point it but there is no feedback. We also looked at the > new GMC Acadia, bit too Tonka-toy for me. We have twin Jeep Grand > Cherokee Laredos, with 140K miles so need reliability for long road > trips. The Honda seemed a generation ahead of the others, and the new > Jeeps are mere shadows of the old "real" Jeeps. And the Consumer's > Report didn't help either. Remarkably, we had few problems with the > Jeeps, and I used to drive from Dallas to Sacramento for the Jazz > Jubilee, each year. The Honda is bigger, quieter, more fuel- > efficient, more automated, more seats (can snug 8 people into one.) > Just more of what we wanted and less of what we didn't want. We still have our 03 Pilot, the 1st year they came out. Still drives like new and does not break. Although AWD it gets around 22 on the road. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
Making Car Sense <christopherasachs@gmail.com> wrote in
news:60662132-82bb-42e4-b628-60bfa8a318d1@g1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com: > > I still have respect for Toyota, however, a once highly regarded > reputation will now take some time to recover from this. I've been > trying to find out if Toyota utilizes Drive-by-Wire technology that > Honda uses as their throttle system. Wondering if this design is to > fault or not. Any thoughts? You're a bit out of the loop on this. Funny that, given your advertised website. ALL automakers now use throttle-by-wire. It's an aftershock of federal emissions-control regulations. In case anybody's wondering, steering is still steel-to-steel, as it has been since forever. There were two problems with the affected Toyotas: 1) aftermarket floor mats (the cop that died was driving a loaner that had aftermarket mats which had bunched up and kept the pedal down), and 2) poor-quality pedal/sensor assemblies from a Toyota supplier. The sensor problem has to do with gas pedal assemblies supplied to Toyota by a Canadian branch of a US company called CTS. This only affected American and Canadian-built vehicles. Japanese-built cars have Denso- supplied pedal assemblies. These are not subject to the sensor recall. Note that Toyota, like Honda and all other foreign-owned makes, is forced to buy a certain percentage of their parts from NAFTA-eligible suppliers in order for their NA-assembled vehicles to be exempt from the various import tariffs. Just about all of Toyota's recent recalls have involved NA suppliers. Doesn't say much for us, that's for sure. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
On Jan 27, 1:47 pm, Making Car Sense <christopherasa...@gmail.com>
wrote: > On Jan 27, 3:34 pm, billzz <bil...@wildblue.net> wrote: > > > > > On Jan 27, 11:41 am, "Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote: > > > > Really ... Where are wouldbe Toyota buyers turning now first? Wouldn't > > > it be Honda? I wonder if there are any indication of this yet. > > > As a matter of fact, we just took delivery of a Honda Pilot Touring, > > after test-driving the Toyota Venza. My wife absolutely hated the fly- > > by-wire steering. It's like a remote-controlled vehicle. It goes > > where you point it but there is no feedback. We also looked at the > > new GMC Acadia, bit too Tonka-toy for me. We have twin Jeep Grand > > Cherokee Laredos, with 140K miles so need reliability for long road > > trips. The Honda seemed a generation ahead of the others, and the new > > Jeeps are mere shadows of the old "real" Jeeps. And the Consumer's > > Report didn't help either. Remarkably, we had few problems with the > > Jeeps, and I used to drive from Dallas to Sacramento for the Jazz > > Jubilee, each year. The Honda is bigger, quieter, more fuel- > > efficient, more automated, more seats (can snug 8 people into one.) > > Just more of what we wanted and less of what we didn't want. > > I still have respect for Toyota, however, a once highly regarded > reputation will now take some time to recover from this. I've been > trying to find out if Toyota utilizes Drive-by-Wire technology that > Honda uses as their throttle system. Wondering if this design is to > fault or not. Any thoughts? > > Chriswww.makingcarsense.comhttp://www.makingcarsense.com/post/toyota-recall-toyota-temporarily-s... I have no cogent thoughts. I am old. Seventy-one years old. The first car that I drove was a 1938 Packard 120. The second car was a 1948 Buick Roadmaster. The third was a BMW Isetta, and the fourth was a 1959 XK-140 Jaguar, which I raced at Laguna Seca. Along the way there was a Jeep Wagoneer, and a 1962 E-Type Jaguar, toured around Europe, followed by a 455 Pontiac Bonneville, and, going back to Europe, a VW Dasher, and some others. My only real thoughts are that (and I flew airplanes) that you really can feel things by the "seat of your pants" and that people who do not have that ability do not have "the right stuff." Fly-by-wire is a neutral technology. You get it or you do not get it. The key thing is,does it work? As an aside and an insight into design, there was the case of an American aircraft which had the instructions for blowing the canopy written on the canopy. There were five lines and, if you followed the instructions, you blew the canopy at the third line, and then never knew what the following lines had to say. Better than a German WWII aircraft that had the instructions to pull, with both hands, the latches, and when the pilot did that, the explosive bolts went off so fast that both of the pilot's hands were pulled off. More than anyone wants to know. I do not know what Honda uses as their throttle system, but my experience leads me to always have another "out." All cars can have "surges" and it is a poor driver that does no know how to stop a car. Now, saying that, I realize that my daughter-in-law, carrying our grand-kids, is pretty unknowing about how to do most anything in a car. Incidentally, just yesterday I had to take the mandatory California 70 years old driver's test. The eyesight was 20/20 and I got 100% on the test, so I am thinking about this Ferrari...... |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
Thus spake "Cameo" <cameo@cameo.invalid> :
>Really ... Where are wouldbe Toyota buyers turning now first? Wouldn't >it be Honda? I wonder if there are any indication of this yet. Well, the problem appears to be in an American made part. I've always been "afraid" of my wife's Camry. When I punch it, it almost feels like a turbine powered aircraft. Sort of thinks and starts to spool up. Real mushy. Her's is "one of the ones", but she has long known how to get out of that kind of mess. Toyota says to stick the car in neutral and pound the brake with both feet. Once it's in neutral it's not going to go any faster. If you're in a turn a little too hot, that puppy is going to step around on you in a FWD car. -- - dillon I am not invalid I love my country, It's my government I fear. Hey, turnabout's fair play. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
On Jan 27, 6:06 pm, "tww1491" <twau...@cox.net> wrote:
> "billzz" <bil...@wildblue.net> wrote in message > > news:83105773-8374-4411-9a03-1f3b90c3de51@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Jan 27, 11:41 am, "Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote: > >> Really ... Where are wouldbe Toyota buyers turning now first? Wouldn't > >> it be Honda? I wonder if there are any indication of this yet. > > > As a matter of fact, we just took delivery of a Honda Pilot Touring, > > after test-driving the Toyota Venza. My wife absolutely hated the fly- > > by-wire steering. It's like a remote-controlled vehicle. It goes > > where you point it but there is no feedback. We also looked at the > > new GMC Acadia, bit too Tonka-toy for me. We have twin Jeep Grand > > Cherokee Laredos, with 140K miles so need reliability for long road > > trips. The Honda seemed a generation ahead of the others, and the new > > Jeeps are mere shadows of the old "real" Jeeps. And the Consumer's > > Report didn't help either. Remarkably, we had few problems with the > > Jeeps, and I used to drive from Dallas to Sacramento for the Jazz > > Jubilee, each year. The Honda is bigger, quieter, more fuel- > > efficient, more automated, more seats (can snug 8 people into one.) > > Just more of what we wanted and less of what we didn't want. > > We still have our 03 Pilot, the 1st year they came out. Still drives like > new and does not break. Although AWD it gets around 22 on the road. 22 seems good to me. The Jeeps got 17, when we were in Texas. Now retired, and in California, they only get 15, because the gas is diluted with corn alchohol. The politicos love it because they get state tax on every gallon, so the more gallons that you burn, the more taxes that they get. Few people understand this. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
On Jan 27, 2:41 pm, "Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote:
> Really ... Where are wouldbe Toyota buyers turning now first? Wouldn't > it be Honda? I wonder if there are any indication of this yet. I own both Honda and Toyota vehicles. Toyota owners tend to want comfort while Honda owners tend to want responsiveness. While it might seem that potential Camry buyers would go for an Accord, I'd guess the numbers will be less than you think. The Accord will be too noisy and rough riding for many Camry buyers. The Toyota floor mat issue has been around for a while. That didn't stop me from buying a new Sienna after putting 250K nearly trouble- free miles on a 1998 Sienna. YMMV |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
"ACAR" <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1cc88b5e-2395-43e4-b8d2-2bc2f7ab8c65@28g2000vbf.googlegroups.com... > I own both Honda and Toyota vehicles. > Toyota owners tend to want comfort while Honda owners tend to want > responsiveness. > While it might seem that potential Camry buyers would go for an > Accord, I'd guess the numbers will be less than you think. The Accord > will be too noisy and rough riding for many Camry buyers. Interesting comparison. I always wondered if newer Toyotas were quieter than Hondas because I sure find my '94 Accord pretty noisy. But then, I had an '84 Corolla before and that was also noisy as hell. True though that it was not in the same class as Camry or Accord. But how are Toyotas more comfortable besides the road noise? |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
"Cameo" <cameo@cameo.invalid> wrote in message news:hjsq9i$mt3$1@news.eternal-september.org... > "ACAR" <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:1cc88b5e-2395-43e4-b8d2-2bc2f7ab8c65@28g2000vbf.googlegroups.com... >> I own both Honda and Toyota vehicles. >> Toyota owners tend to want comfort while Honda owners tend to want >> responsiveness. >> While it might seem that potential Camry buyers would go for an >> Accord, I'd guess the numbers will be less than you think. The Accord >> will be too noisy and rough riding for many Camry buyers. > > Interesting comparison. I always wondered if newer Toyotas were quieter > than Hondas because I sure find my '94 Accord pretty noisy. But then, I > had an '84 Corolla before and that was also noisy as hell. True though > that it was not in the same class as Camry or Accord. But how are Toyotas > more comfortable besides the road noise? > Toyotas tend to have softer and quieter ride. Hondas are more sporty and better handing. Road noise has a lot to do with the kind of tires you put on too. Nissan Altima used to be a good car. Not sure if it has gotten better or worst in terms of quality. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
Bob Jones wrote:
> Nissan Altima used to be a good car. Not sure if it has gotten better or > worst in terms of quality. Nissan overall has seen its quality slip significantly over the years, to the point where it is probably the least reliable Japanese car maker. I wonder if we can blame that on the fact that they are owned by Renault? |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 13:34:24 -0800 (PST), billzz <billzz@wildblue.net>
wrote: >On Jan 27, 11:41 am, "Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote: >> Really ... Where are wouldbe Toyota buyers turning now first? Wouldn't >> it be Honda? I wonder if there are any indication of this yet. > >As a matter of fact, we just took delivery of a Honda Pilot Touring, >after test-driving the Toyota Venza. My wife absolutely hated the fly- >by-wire steering. That can't be right. Surely the steering is a mechanical linkage. Toyota steering can be pretty numb. Maybe you mean electric power steering. Honda has that too. I'm not a big fan of it but I would expect the Honda system to have more road feel than Toyota. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
"Eternal Searcher" <eternalsearcherREMOVE7219@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:hjtnb4$han$1@news.eternal-september.org... > Nissan overall has seen its quality slip significantly over the years, > to > the point where it is probably the least reliable Japanese car maker. > I > wonder if we can blame that on the fact that they are owned by > Renault? Maybe they should go back to the Datsun name. Any idea how Subarus rank in the quality category? |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:j4o4m51chorqm0h86ip6iffierg4ql16ps@4ax.com... > That can't be right. Surely the steering is a mechanical linkage. > Toyota steering can be pretty numb. Maybe you mean electric power > steering. Honda has that too. I'm not a big fan of it but I would > expect the Honda system to have more road feel than Toyota. The German cars seem to have a good road feel. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
On Jan 28, 9:03 pm, "Bob Jones" <em...@me.not> wrote:
snip > > Toyotas tend to have softer and quieter ride. Hondas are more sporty and > better handing. Generally, previous generation Honda cars were sportier than their current iterations. The mainstream products from both these companies are none too sporty. >Road noise has a lot to do with the kind of tires you put on too. Yup, The Tire Rack asks users to provide input re. tire noise. That said, Toyota/Lexus is known for insulation from road noise. > Nissan Altima used to be a good car. Not sure if it has gotten better or > worst in terms of quality. It's hard to find a poor car in the family sedan class. Competition works. But if you look at last year's sales, Subaru and Hyundai are the standouts with increases while the rest of the industry took it on the chin. Car shoppers should consider how they will use the car (city? highway? lots of night driving? more than 2 kids?), where they live (snow country? mountains?) and buy something that meets their own needs (e.g., minivan). |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
Cameo wrote:
> Really ... Where are wouldbe Toyota buyers turning now first? Wouldn't > it be Honda? I wonder if there are any indication of this yet. My parents will soon replace their 1994 Toyota Camry after almost 14 years of excellent service. This car has not received a lot of care and has held up amazingly well in spite of that. The Toyota recalls and just a desire to see the other offerings may have them looking at the Honda Accord. Their two main criteria are reliability and overall comfort. Road noise is definitely a factor. It also needs to have 4 doors, but will rarely have someone in the back seat anymore. The least important thing for them is how sporty it is. They are also looking for something as close to their current Camry as possible as far as price, (adjusted for 2010 of course), gas mileage, and trunk capacity. Looking at the Accord is a given, but I was wondering what other cars in this general criteria range they should be checking out. I have been researching it some and nothing but the Accord is really standing out so far. Thanks! Pat |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
On 1/28/10 10:14 PM, in article hjtnb4$han$1@news.eternal-september.org,
"Eternal Searcher" <eternalsearcherREMOVE7219@yahoo.ca> wrote: > Bob Jones wrote: > >> Nissan Altima used to be a good car. Not sure if it has gotten better or >> worst in terms of quality. > > Nissan overall has seen its quality slip significantly over the years, to > the point where it is probably the least reliable Japanese car maker. I > wonder if we can blame that on the fact that they are owned by Renault? I usually refrain from commenting on these blanket indictments, but since I have some first hand experience with both recent Hondas and Nissans, I would really like to know where you are getting this tidbit. It is simply not true, especially with regard to the cars. Recent Nissans, with the sole exception of the large trucks, are just as reliable as any Toyota or Honda and more "sporty" than either one of them. I have owned '96, '00 and '06 Hondas (and Odyssey, TL & CRV) and '96, '97, '02, '08 & '09 Nissans (G20, I30, Pathfinder, Altima & G37). Currently in my garage is an '06 Honda CRV and an '09 G37S. My daughter has an '08 Altima which has been flawless up to now. The Nissan are significantly quieter than than Hondas across the board, ride better and handle better. They haven't used timing belts since the early '90s. I do my own routine maintenance. The Hondas are more difficult to work on (whose bright idea was it to put the oil filter above the exhaust on the back of the engine anyway?). The only major catastrophe I have experienced with a car since '96 has been when the AC compressor on the '06 Honda CRV completely self destructed last summer without warning at only 40,000 miles & one month past the 3 year warranty period. The entire AC system had to be replaced at a cost of nearly $2000 and American Honda would not even talk to me about it. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
In article <C7886087.169EA%e.p.meyer@verizon.net>,
"E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote: > My daughter has an '08 > Altima which has been flawless up to now. Good God, an 08 ANYTHING would be flawless. I hope that's not your criterion for "it's a good car"... |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
In article <C7886087.169EA%e.p.meyer@verizon.net>,
"E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote: > The only major catastrophe I have experienced with a car since '96 has been > when the AC compressor on the '06 Honda CRV completely self destructed last > summer without warning at only 40,000 miles & one month past the 3 year > warranty period. The entire AC system had to be replaced at a cost of > nearly $2000 and American Honda would not even talk to me about it. Wow. You were dealing with the wrong dealership. Did you CALL American Honda and open a log on this yourself? Or did you just talk to the dealership service manager and take his word for everything? Quick story: way back when, mid-80s, I owned a 79 Civic. Loved that car. Gas tank had a bad design, the straps held moisture and the tank rusted. Went to my dealer. "Yeah, that shouldn't have happened. Honda has offered to buy the tank, if you'll pay labor." Done. Based on that, a year later my GF bought a 79 Civic. Shortly thereafter, rusting gas tank. "No problem," I said. She took it to the dealer nearest her--different from mine--and explained it all. This was on a Friday. Friday afternoon at 4:00 she called me, very upset, and said that the dealer apparently forgot about Honda buying the tank, and wanted her to pay the full bill. When she reminded them about the campaign, they said "Oh, well, you can leave the car here if you like, and we'll talk to the zone rep when he comes by." "Bullshit," sez I. I called American Honda, the zone office directly, and explained the situation to the guy who answered. "Hang on," he said. Ten minutes later he comes back. "Go pick up your car. You'll pay labor only." Remember, this was at 4:15 on a Friday afternoon. We go into the dealership to pick up the car, and the service manager is at the desk. She sees us and says, "Went over our heads, did you?" You bet your ass we did, sweetie. you and your incompetence. 25 years later I still give my dealership all of my Honda business, and they still treat people the same way--with respect. I've had several repairs taken care of under a goodwill policy, repairs that technically weren't covered by warranty but which a reasonable person would say, "Oh, that shouldn't have happened." And I've never waited to get an answer--the service manager makes the decision on the spot. One time, I took it in at 7pm, and the service writer called the service manager at home to get an answer to my request for goodwill consideration. He granted it, too. Of course, he knows me, and I'm a regular customer. That helps. It also helps to know that this isn't coming out of the dealership's pocket. American Honda gives the dealership discretionary funds to take care of gray area crap like this. One month out of warranty? American Honda, had you called them directly, wouldn't have hesitated to fix the entire thing. Shoot, I had an idle air control valve go out 9 months--but only 3K miles--out of warranty. $300 repair, and the service manager didn't hesitate to take care of it for me, no charge. You could have worked the system better, had you come here and asked. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
E. Meyer wrote:
> The only major catastrophe I have experienced with a car since '96 has been > when the AC compressor on the '06 Honda CRV completely self destructed last > summer without warning at only 40,000 miles & one month past the 3 year > warranty period. The entire AC system had to be replaced at a cost of > nearly $2000 and American Honda would not even talk to me about it. Honda's environmental control system design logic -- by default, toggling the A/C 'ON' every time air is directed onto the windscreen, then leaving the A/C 'ON' even after blower output is set to dash or floor -- undoubtedly contributes to a much higher than anticipated A/C clutch duty cycle and that particular failure. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
"E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote in
news:C7886087.169EA%e.p.meyer@verizon.net: > > The only major catastrophe I have experienced with a car since '96 has > been when the AC compressor on the '06 Honda CRV completely self > destructed last summer without warning at only 40,000 miles & one > month past the 3 year warranty period. The entire AC system had to be > replaced at a cost of nearly $2000 and American Honda would not even > talk to me about it. > There is a TSB out on that problem. Cost to fix depends on how far the fragments went into the system. My boss has an '03 CR-V. Same problem, but he has 280,000 miles on the car, so he's not going to bother to fix the A/C. He's probably going to dump the CR-V in the spring, but probably not for another CR-V since he doesn't like the styling of the new ones. This is his second CR-V, plus his wife has a '97. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
In article <leCdnbHAW5sArf7WnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@speakeasy.net> ,
News <News@Group.Name> wrote: > E. Meyer wrote: > > > The only major catastrophe I have experienced with a car since '96 has been > > when the AC compressor on the '06 Honda CRV completely self destructed last > > summer without warning at only 40,000 miles & one month past the 3 year > > warranty period. The entire AC system had to be replaced at a cost of > > nearly $2000 and American Honda would not even talk to me about it. > > > Honda's environmental control system design logic -- by default, > toggling the A/C 'ON' every time air is directed onto the windscreen, > then leaving the A/C 'ON' even after blower output is set to dash or > floor -- undoubtedly contributes to a much higher than anticipated A/C > clutch duty cycle and that particular failure. But the AC won't cycle below a certain outside temperature. Above that temperature, it's prudent to have the defroster actually provide dry, defrosting air to the windshield. But simply aiming the air at the windshield doesn't trigger the AC. Using the defrost button does, but not manually aiming the air at the windshield. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <leCdnbHAW5sArf7WnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@speakeasy.net> , > News <News@Group.Name> wrote: > >> E. Meyer wrote: >> >>> The only major catastrophe I have experienced with a car since '96 has been >>> when the AC compressor on the '06 Honda CRV completely self destructed last >>> summer without warning at only 40,000 miles & one month past the 3 year >>> warranty period. The entire AC system had to be replaced at a cost of >>> nearly $2000 and American Honda would not even talk to me about it. >> >> Honda's environmental control system design logic -- by default, >> toggling the A/C 'ON' every time air is directed onto the windscreen, >> then leaving the A/C 'ON' even after blower output is set to dash or >> floor -- undoubtedly contributes to a much higher than anticipated A/C >> clutch duty cycle and that particular failure. > > But the AC won't cycle below a certain outside temperature. > > Above that temperature, it's prudent to have the defroster actually > provide dry, defrosting air to the windshield. > > But simply aiming the air at the windshield doesn't trigger the AC. > Using the defrost button does, but not manually aiming the air at the > windshield. Nope. Not on the 2005 CRV SE at least. There is no "DEFROST" option, other than the electrical heating elements for mirrors and rear window. The blower options are location-specific: cabin, mixed cabin/floor, floor, and windscreen. Selecting the windscreen option automatically triggers the A/C circuit (which down to local temp minima in the teens F continues to operate). De-selecting the windscreen option leaves the A/C on, which is a problem when the driver is unaware that it has been left on (which many are). Hence the greater A/C clutch duty cycle and adverse impact on MPG. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
On 1/29/10 1:44 PM, in article
AoqdnSvABv4fp_7WnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@speakeasy.net, "News" <News@Group.Name> wrote: > Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >> In article <leCdnbHAW5sArf7WnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@speakeasy.net> , >> News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >> >>> E. Meyer wrote: >>> >>>> The only major catastrophe I have experienced with a car since '96 has been >>>> when the AC compressor on the '06 Honda CRV completely self destructed last >>>> summer without warning at only 40,000 miles & one month past the 3 year >>>> warranty period. The entire AC system had to be replaced at a cost of >>>> nearly $2000 and American Honda would not even talk to me about it. >>> >>> Honda's environmental control system design logic -- by default, >>> toggling the A/C 'ON' every time air is directed onto the windscreen, >>> then leaving the A/C 'ON' even after blower output is set to dash or >>> floor -- undoubtedly contributes to a much higher than anticipated A/C >>> clutch duty cycle and that particular failure. >> >> But the AC won't cycle below a certain outside temperature. >> >> Above that temperature, it's prudent to have the defroster actually >> provide dry, defrosting air to the windshield. >> >> But simply aiming the air at the windshield doesn't trigger the AC. >> Using the defrost button does, but not manually aiming the air at the >> windshield. > > > Nope. Not on the 2005 CRV SE at least. > > There is no "DEFROST" option, other than the electrical heating elements > for mirrors and rear window. > > The blower options are location-specific: cabin, mixed cabin/floor, > floor, and windscreen. > > Selecting the windscreen option automatically triggers the A/C circuit > (which down to local temp minima in the teens F continues to operate). > > De-selecting the windscreen option leaves the A/C on, which is a problem > when the driver is unaware that it has been left on (which many are). > > Hence the greater A/C clutch duty cycle and adverse impact on MPG. I suspect that might contribute to it, but the failure happened on a day when it was 110 degrees F; to my wife; on her way to my daughter's wedding rehearsal. The glow was definitely off Honda after this incident. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
E. Meyer wrote:
> On 1/29/10 1:44 PM, in article > AoqdnSvABv4fp_7WnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@speakeasy.net, "News" <News@Group.Name> > wrote: > >> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >>> In article <leCdnbHAW5sArf7WnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@speakeasy.net> , >>> News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>> >>>> E. Meyer wrote: >>>> >>>>> The only major catastrophe I have experienced with a car since '96 has been >>>>> when the AC compressor on the '06 Honda CRV completely self destructed last >>>>> summer without warning at only 40,000 miles & one month past the 3 year >>>>> warranty period. The entire AC system had to be replaced at a cost of >>>>> nearly $2000 and American Honda would not even talk to me about it. >>>> Honda's environmental control system design logic -- by default, >>>> toggling the A/C 'ON' every time air is directed onto the windscreen, >>>> then leaving the A/C 'ON' even after blower output is set to dash or >>>> floor -- undoubtedly contributes to a much higher than anticipated A/C >>>> clutch duty cycle and that particular failure. >>> But the AC won't cycle below a certain outside temperature. >>> >>> Above that temperature, it's prudent to have the defroster actually >>> provide dry, defrosting air to the windshield. >>> >>> But simply aiming the air at the windshield doesn't trigger the AC. >>> Using the defrost button does, but not manually aiming the air at the >>> windshield. >> >> Nope. Not on the 2005 CRV SE at least. >> >> There is no "DEFROST" option, other than the electrical heating elements >> for mirrors and rear window. >> >> The blower options are location-specific: cabin, mixed cabin/floor, >> floor, and windscreen. >> >> Selecting the windscreen option automatically triggers the A/C circuit >> (which down to local temp minima in the teens F continues to operate). >> >> De-selecting the windscreen option leaves the A/C on, which is a problem >> when the driver is unaware that it has been left on (which many are). >> >> Hence the greater A/C clutch duty cycle and adverse impact on MPG. > > I suspect that might contribute to it, but the failure happened on a day > when it was 110 degrees F; to my wife; on her way to my daughter's wedding > rehearsal. The glow was definitely off Honda after this incident. > Understandably! |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
"News" <News@Group.Name> wrote in message
news:AoqdnSvABv4fp_7WnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > There is no "DEFROST" option, other than the electrical heating > elements for mirrors and rear window. > > The blower options are location-specific: cabin, mixed cabin/floor, > floor, and windscreen. > > Selecting the windscreen option automatically triggers the A/C circuit > (which down to local temp minima in the teens F continues to operate). > > De-selecting the windscreen option leaves the A/C on, which is a > problem when the driver is unaware that it has been left on (which > many are). > > Hence the greater A/C clutch duty cycle and adverse impact on MPG. Hm, I never heard of this. I wonder if this is also the case on my '94 Accord. It would be good to know. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
Gordon McGrew wrote:
> That can't be right. Surely the steering is a mechanical linkage. > Toyota steering can be pretty numb. Maybe you mean electric power > steering. Honda has that too. I'm not a big fan of it but I would > expect the Honda system to have more road feel than Toyota. I don't know about the Venza, but I do know that the current Corolla has electric power steering. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
E. Meyer wrote:
>> Nissan overall has seen its quality slip significantly over the years, to >> the point where it is probably the least reliable Japanese car maker. I >> wonder if we can blame that on the fact that they are owned by Renault? > > I usually refrain from commenting on these blanket indictments, but since I > have some first hand experience with both recent Hondas and Nissans, I would > really like to know where you are getting this tidbit. It is simply not > true, especially with regard to the cars. Recent Nissans, with the sole > exception of the large trucks, are just as reliable as any Toyota or Honda > and more "sporty" than either one of them. This is just a sample. They are from a Canadian source, but Canadian market cars are usually exactly the same mechanically as U.S. market cars. Lots of detail, but I have provided links below. In particular, the "close-coupled" catalytic converter used with the 2.5L engine (used in the Altima and Sentra) was known for self-destructing, resulting in catastrophic engine trouble. 2002-2006 Altima: http://www.canadiandriver.com/2009/1...002-2006-2.htm 2000-2003 Maxima: http://www.canadiandriver.com/2008/1...-2000-2003.htm 2001-2006 Sentra: http://www.canadiandriver.com/2009/0...001-2006.htm/3 |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
On Jan 28, 8:16 pm, Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVr...@mindspring.com>
wrote: > On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 13:34:24 -0800 (PST), billzz <bil...@wildblue.net> > wrote: > > >On Jan 27, 11:41 am, "Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote: > >> Really ... Where are wouldbe Toyota buyers turning now first? Wouldn't > >> it be Honda? I wonder if there are any indication of this yet. > > >As a matter of fact, we just took delivery of a Honda Pilot Touring, > >after test-driving the Toyota Venza. My wife absolutely hated the fly- > >by-wire steering. > > That can't be right. Surely the steering is a mechanical linkage. > Toyota steering can be pretty numb. Maybe you mean electric power > steering. Honda has that too. I'm not a big fan of it but I would > expect the Honda system to have more road feel than Toyota. Hmm. Well, I do not know. All I know is that we had a short test- drive, and my wife hated the steering. The salesman said that the Toyota Venza had the latest "fly-by-wire" as they had in the latest airplanes. What that meant, I did not know, but I associated it with my wife's hating the steering. Of course salesmen say a lot of things, and I should have looked under the hood, and I could have determined what it was, but you know how it is....if your wife says that she hates it, then that's it! So we left. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
billzz <billzz@wildblue.net> wrote in
news:bcb769fc-ee98-4c59-afb2-5c10bb7f1aaf@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com: > On Jan 28, 8:16 pm, Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVr...@mindspring.com> > wrote: >> On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 13:34:24 -0800 (PST), billzz >> <bil...@wildblue.net> wrote: >> >> >On Jan 27, 11:41 am, "Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote: >> >> Really ... Where are wouldbe Toyota buyers turning now first? >> >> Wouldn't it be Honda? I wonder if there are any indication of this >> >> yet. >> >> >As a matter of fact, we just took delivery of a Honda Pilot Touring, >> >after test-driving the Toyota Venza. My wife absolutely hated the >> >fly > - >> >by-wire steering. >> >> That can't be right. Surely the steering is a mechanical linkage. >> Toyota steering can be pretty numb. Maybe you mean electric power >> steering. Honda has that too. I'm not a big fan of it but I would >> expect the Honda system to have more road feel than Toyota. > > Hmm. Well, I do not know. All I know is that we had a short test- > drive, and my wife hated the steering. The salesman said that the > Toyota Venza had the latest "fly-by-wire" as they had in the latest > airplanes. What that meant, I did not know, but I associated it with > my wife's hating the steering. Of course salesmen say a lot of > things, and I should have looked under the hood, and I could have > determined what it was, but you know how it is....if your wife says > that she hates it, then that's it! So we left. The amount of total bullshit that permeates Usenet is amazing. Is Usenet the CB radio of the 21st Century? So it would seem. Fact 1: ALL cars to this very minute have ordinary (and quite mechanical) steering just like any vehicle since the very day steering was introduced. Fact 2: This "fly by wire" thing refers to the THROTTLE, not the STEERING. The newest power steering systems use electric motors rather than hydraulics to effect the power-assist that makes it easier to turn the steering wheel. This is the source of the confusion that results in the mis-identification of electric assist as being "fly-by-wire". -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
On 01/27/2010 11:41 AM, Cameo wrote:
> Really ... Where are wouldbe Toyota buyers turning now first? Wouldn't > it be Honda? I wonder if there are any indication of this yet. this "recall" stinks of politics/protectionism. 1. why would [politically naive] toyota have a recall after buying cts sensors [with what, three failures?] when domestics using the same supplier haven't the slightest whiff of recall? 2. google for reports of bmw stuck throttle problems and you'll find plenty, but i don't see the national media whipping themselves up into a xenophobic frenzy over it. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
On 01/29/2010 07:16 PM, Tegger wrote:
> billzz<billzz@wildblue.net> wrote in > news:bcb769fc-ee98-4c59-afb2-5c10bb7f1aaf@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com: > >> On Jan 28, 8:16�pm, Gordon McGrew<RgEmMcOgVr...@mindspring.com> >> wrote: >>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 13:34:24 -0800 (PST), billzz >>> <bil...@wildblue.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On Jan 27, 11:41�am, "Cameo"<ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote: >>>>> Really ... Where are wouldbe Toyota buyers turning now first? >>>>> Wouldn't it be Honda? I wonder if there are any indication of this >>>>> yet. >>> >>>> As a matter of fact, we just took delivery of a Honda Pilot Touring, >>>> after test-driving the Toyota Venza. �My wife absolutely hated the >>>> fly >> - >>>> by-wire steering. >>> >>> That can't be right. �Surely the steering is a mechanical linkage. >>> Toyota steering can be pretty numb. �Maybe you mean electric power >>> steering. �Honda has that too. I'm not a big fan of it but I would >>> expect the Honda system to have more road feel than Toyota. >> >> Hmm. Well, I do not know. All I know is that we had a short test- >> drive, and my wife hated the steering. The salesman said that the >> Toyota Venza had the latest "fly-by-wire" as they had in the latest >> airplanes. What that meant, I did not know, but I associated it with >> my wife's hating the steering. Of course salesmen say a lot of >> things, and I should have looked under the hood, and I could have >> determined what it was, but you know how it is....if your wife says >> that she hates it, then that's it! So we left. > > > > The amount of total bullshit that permeates Usenet is amazing. Is Usenet > the CB radio of the 21st Century? So it would seem. > > Fact 1: ALL cars to this very minute have ordinary (and quite mechanical) > steering just like any vehicle since the very day steering was introduced. > > Fact 2: This "fly by wire" thing refers to the THROTTLE, not the STEERING. > > The newest power steering systems use electric motors rather than > hydraulics to effect the power-assist that makes it easier to turn the > steering wheel. This is the source of the confusion that results in the > mis-identification of electric assist as being "fly-by-wire". > > well said. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
On 01/27/2010 06:28 PM, Tegger wrote:
> Making Car Sense<christopherasachs@gmail.com> wrote in > news:60662132-82bb-42e4-b628-60bfa8a318d1@g1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com: > > >> >> I still have respect for Toyota, however, a once highly regarded >> reputation will now take some time to recover from this. I've been >> trying to find out if Toyota utilizes Drive-by-Wire technology that >> Honda uses as their throttle system. Wondering if this design is to >> fault or not. Any thoughts? > > > > You're a bit out of the loop on this. Funny that, given your advertised > website. > > ALL automakers now use throttle-by-wire. It's an aftershock of federal > emissions-control regulations. it really offers no advantages on emissions [other than maybe total CO2, but that's also an economy thing]. but it does offer two significant advantages for control: 1. cruise control is now a piece of cake. 2. automatic shifting is now a piece of cake. for #2, old style shifting under full power meant having a transmission with converters/clutches that could take the load/wear. not a trivial mechanical solution, and thus, not cheap either. this was partially addressed in the 90's with retarding ignition timing to reduce engine output at the critical moment, which helps, but it's not a real solution. with electronic throttle, you can have a quick and precise power-down exactly in sync with the shift event, thus reducing mechanical load, gas consumption, and offering the potential to make the shift smoother. it's an excellent thing. > In case anybody's wondering, steering is > still steel-to-steel, as it has been since forever. > > There were two problems with the affected Toyotas: > 1) aftermarket floor mats (the cop that died was driving a loaner that had > aftermarket mats which had bunched up and kept the pedal down), and > 2) poor-quality pedal/sensor assemblies from a Toyota supplier. > > The sensor problem has to do with gas pedal assemblies supplied to Toyota > by a Canadian branch of a US company called CTS. This only affected > American and Canadian-built vehicles. Japanese-built cars have Denso- > supplied pedal assemblies. These are not subject to the sensor recall. > > Note that Toyota, like Honda and all other foreign-owned makes, is forced > to buy a certain percentage of their parts from NAFTA-eligible suppliers in > order for their NA-assembled vehicles to be exempt from the various import > tariffs. Just about all of Toyota's recent recalls have involved NA > suppliers. Doesn't say much for us, that's for sure. > indeed. the dead stinking herring for me though, is why are none of the other [domestic] manufacturers cts supplies subject to the same kind of hysteria? you can count the number of toyota instances of "failure" on one hand. but frod? http://www.pr.com/press-release/46864 http://www.fordf150.net/forums/viewt...p?f=69&t=73480 http://www.safetyforum.com/fordsua/ etc. why is the "media" not trying to whip the proles into a frenzy of anti-frod fear and loathing? and another thing: i've had a stuck [mechanical] throttle [cable] once. all you do is knock the transmission into neutral and stop the car. instances of death, allegedly due to stuck throttles are incomprehensible to me - the car would need to have a stuck throttle, stuck ignition switch, brake failure and stuck transmission - those do not all happen at once. driver error otoh, well, some people just can't accept responsibility for their own incompetence, otherwise known as "natural selection". |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in
news:zc6dncM8iMOY0fnWnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > On 01/27/2010 06:28 PM, Tegger wrote: >> Making Car Sense<christopherasachs@gmail.com> wrote in >> news:60662132-82bb-42e4-b628-60bfa8a318d1 @g1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com: >> >> >>> >>> I still have respect for Toyota, however, a once highly regarded >>> reputation will now take some time to recover from this. I've been >>> trying to find out if Toyota utilizes Drive-by-Wire technology that >>> Honda uses as their throttle system. Wondering if this design is to >>> fault or not. Any thoughts? >> >> >> >> You're a bit out of the loop on this. Funny that, given your >> advertised website. >> >> ALL automakers now use throttle-by-wire. It's an aftershock of >> federal emissions-control regulations. > > it really offers no advantages on emissions [other than maybe total > CO2, but that's also an economy thing]. but it does offer two > significant advantages for control: > > 1. cruise control is now a piece of cake. > > 2. automatic shifting is now a piece of cake. It's more than that, I've since learned: it's primarily for VSA and Traction Control, not emissions or cruise. VSA and TRAC are dependent on the ECM/PCM having complete control over the throttle. > all you do is knock the transmission into neutral and stop the car. > instances of death, allegedly due to stuck throttles are > incomprehensible to me - the car would need to have a stuck throttle, > stuck ignition switch, brake failure and stuck transmission - those do > not all happen at once. driver error otoh, well, some people just > can't accept responsibility for their own incompetence, otherwise > known as "natural selection". > And some more information I learned... That "Smart Start" button is part of the problem. The 3-second delay (there for liability reasons) must be terribly confusing in a panic situation. Those two-gate automatic shifters are another source of the problem. The cop that died (in a loaner car) had tried to push his shifter into Neutral, but had pulled the lever over into the "Sport" side of the gate, which toggled between up and down in Drive only. In his panic, he didn't realize that. Also, apparently some people are not riding the brake /hard enough/. They are doing it in stages, letting off between, which overheats the brakes. If they would simply stomp the pedal as hard as possible, and /keep the pedal down/, the brakes will overpower the engine and sto the car. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
On 01/30/2010 08:34 AM, Tegger wrote:
> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in > news:zc6dncM8iMOY0fnWnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > >> On 01/27/2010 06:28 PM, Tegger wrote: >>> Making Car Sense<christopherasachs@gmail.com> wrote in >>> news:60662132-82bb-42e4-b628-60bfa8a318d1 > @g1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> I still have respect for Toyota, however, a once highly regarded >>>> reputation will now take some time to recover from this. I've been >>>> trying to find out if Toyota utilizes Drive-by-Wire technology that >>>> Honda uses as their throttle system. Wondering if this design is to >>>> fault or not. Any thoughts? >>> >>> >>> >>> You're a bit out of the loop on this. Funny that, given your >>> advertised website. >>> >>> ALL automakers now use throttle-by-wire. It's an aftershock of >>> federal emissions-control regulations. >> >> it really offers no advantages on emissions [other than maybe total >> CO2, but that's also an economy thing]. but it does offer two >> significant advantages for control: >> >> 1. cruise control is now a piece of cake. >> >> 2. automatic shifting is now a piece of cake. > > > > It's more than that, I've since learned: it's primarily for VSA and > Traction Control, not emissions or cruise. > > VSA and TRAC are dependent on the ECM/PCM having complete control over > the throttle. true, electronic throttle makes those relatively easy [and cheap] too. > > > >> all you do is knock the transmission into neutral and stop the car. >> instances of death, allegedly due to stuck throttles are >> incomprehensible to me - the car would need to have a stuck throttle, >> stuck ignition switch, brake failure and stuck transmission - those do >> not all happen at once. driver error otoh, well, some people just >> can't accept responsibility for their own incompetence, otherwise >> known as "natural selection". >> > > > And some more information I learned... > > That "Smart Start" button is part of the problem. The 3-second delay > (there for liability reasons) must be terribly confusing in a panic > situation. i hadn't considered, that, but yes, you're right, that would be a major problem. there should be a "KILL" button on all-electronic cars, just like on race cars. > > Those two-gate automatic shifters are another source of the problem. The > cop that died (in a loaner car) had tried to push his shifter into > Neutral, but had pulled the lever over into the "Sport" side of the > gate, which toggled between up and down in Drive only. In his panic, he > didn't realize that. natural selection. familiarize yourself with the vehicle controls before driving. > > Also, apparently some people are not riding the brake /hard enough/. > They are doing it in stages, letting off between, which overheats the > brakes. If they would simply stomp the pedal as hard as possible, and > /keep the pedal down/, the brakes will overpower the engine and sto the > car. indeed. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
On Jan 27, 8:28 pm, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> Making Car Sense <christopherasa...@gmail.com> wrote innews:60662132-82bb-42e4-b628-60bfa8a318d1@g1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com: > > > > > I still have respect for Toyota, however, a once highly regarded > > reputation will now take some time to recover from this. I've been > > trying to find out if Toyota utilizes Drive-by-Wire technology that > > Honda uses as their throttle system. Wondering if this design is to > > fault or not. Any thoughts? > > You're a bit out of the loop on this. Funny that, given your advertised > website. > > ALL automakers now use throttle-by-wire. It's an aftershock of federal > emissions-control regulations. In case anybody's wondering, steering is > still steel-to-steel, as it has been since forever. > > There were two problems with the affected Toyotas: > 1) aftermarket floor mats (the cop that died was driving a loaner that had > aftermarket mats which had bunched up and kept the pedal down), and > 2) poor-quality pedal/sensor assemblies from a Toyota supplier. > > The sensor problem has to do with gas pedal assemblies supplied to Toyota > by a Canadian branch of a US company called CTS. This only affected > American and Canadian-built vehicles. Japanese-built cars have Denso- > supplied pedal assemblies. These are not subject to the sensor recall. > > Note that Toyota, like Honda and all other foreign-owned makes, is forced > to buy a certain percentage of their parts from NAFTA-eligible suppliers in > order for their NA-assembled vehicles to be exempt from the various import > tariffs. Just about all of Toyota's recent recalls have involved NA > suppliers. Doesn't say much for us, that's for sure. > > -- > Tegger > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/ I appreciate your demonstration of being in the know, and true most all manufactures use drive by wire technology, though, not all vehicles use it, and not all vehicles use the same kind of technology; same concept, but different technologies. Yes, floor mats are an issue, however, after your post, Toyota announced http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/t...ry-102572.aspx what the actual problem is. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
Thus spake ACAR <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> :
> >The Toyota floor mat issue has been around for a while. That didn't >stop me from buying a new Sienna after putting 250K nearly trouble- >free miles on a 1998 Sienna. Here's what bugs me about the floor mat issue. My 96 Civic had a recall due to sliding floor mats.Thirteen years later Toyota didn't remember that? My Honda floor mats for my Fit have neat little clips on the fronts that keep them from moving forward. Those little "sticky-outty" things on the bottom of a mat only last for so long. > >YMMV > -- - dillon I am not invalid I love my country, It's my government I fear. Hey, turnabout's fair play. |
Re: Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?
Cameo wrote:
> Really ... Where are wouldbe Toyota buyers turning now first? Wouldn't > it be Honda? I wonder if there are any indication of this yet. It looks like Ford, & Hyundai are the main beneficiaries. I have seen a ton of Ford Fusion cars around. |
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