esara

i did today service b for my honda civic 2001 sedan, manual
transmission. the dealer wrote the following in the note ""all tires
7.5mm front pads 7mm (aftermrkt) rear shoes 4mm" what does that mean
please? what does "aftermrkt" means (that how the spell it)?

thanks a lot.

Dddudley

esara wrote:
> i did today service b for my honda civic 2001 sedan, manual
> transmission. the dealer wrote the following in the note ""all tires
> 7.5mm front pads 7mm (aftermrkt) rear shoes 4mm" what does that mean
> please? what does "aftermrkt" means (that how the spell it)?
>
> thanks a lot.

Just a SWAG (Scientific, Wild-Assed Guess)but I think it means that your
tires (all of them)have approximately 7.5 mm of remaining tread. Your
front brake pads, not Honda OEM, have 7mm of wear left and, last but not
least, you have 4mm remaining wear on the rear shoes.

Aftermkt = After market parts which means nothing other than the parts
are not made by Honda or labeled as such by one of their suppliers.

esara

On Dec 28, 10:35 pm, Dddudley <puzzl...@ameritech.net> wrote:
> esara wrote:
> > i did today service b for my honda civic 2001 sedan, manual
> > transmission. the dealer wrote the following in the note ""all tires
> > 7.5mm front pads 7mm (aftermrkt) rear shoes 4mm" what does that mean
> > please? what does "aftermrkt" means (that how the spell it)?
>
> > thanks a lot.
>
> Just a SWAG (Scientific, Wild-Assed Guess)but I think it means that your
> tires (all of them)have approximately 7.5 mm of remaining tread. Your
> front brake pads, not Honda OEM, have 7mm of wear left and, last but not
> least, you have 4mm remaining wear on the rear shoes.
>
> Aftermkt = After market parts which means nothing other than the parts
> are not made by Honda or labeled as such by one of their suppliers.

thanks a lot for your reply. i understand it now. do you think i
should change them soon or how long i can wait before replace them?
thanks a lot. they also recomend me to do the time build thing. should
i do it or wait? my car is 125km and it civic 2001. thanks

E. Meyer

On 12/29/09 8:10 AM, in article
8a0ce1bd-921e-451a-bb11-3c076f0c17b7...oglegroups.com, "esara"
<esara123@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Dec 28, 10:35 pm, Dddudley <puzzl...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>> esara wrote:
>>> i did today service b for my honda civic 2001 sedan, manual
>>> transmission. the dealer wrote the following in the note ""all tires
>>> 7.5mm front pads 7mm (aftermrkt) rear shoes 4mm" what does that mean
>>> please? what does "aftermrkt" means (that how the spell it)?
>>
>>> thanks a lot.
>>
>> Just a SWAG (Scientific, Wild-Assed Guess)but I think it means that your
>> tires (all of them)have approximately 7.5 mm of remaining tread. Your
>> front brake pads, not Honda OEM, have 7mm of wear left and, last but not
>> least, you have 4mm remaining wear on the rear shoes.
>>
>> Aftermkt = After market parts which means nothing other than the parts
>> are not made by Honda or labeled as such by one of their suppliers.
>
> thanks a lot for your reply. i understand it now. do you think i
> should change them soon or how long i can wait before replace them?
> thanks a lot. they also recomend me to do the time build thing. should
> i do it or wait? my car is 125km and it civic 2001. thanks

They used to give this info in a more useful manner, such as 55% remaining,
etc. Simply giving you a number for the brakes or tires without also giving
you the appropriate service limits is pretty useless.

7.5mm on the tires is practically new. As far as the brake numbers, you
should ask them point blank what the service limits are so you can make an
intelligent decision. I suspect there is no hurry there either.

As far as the timing belt (build?), if the belt has never been changed, it
is about due based on age. You didn't list your mileage, but 2001 Hondas
generally specified the belt change interval at 7 years or 105,000 miles.

Jim Yanik

"E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote in
news:C75F6F84.15109%e.p.meyer@verizon.net:

> On 12/29/09 8:10 AM, in article
> 8a0ce1bd-921e-451a-bb11-3c076f0c17b7...oglegroups.com,
> "esara"
><esara123@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Dec 28, 10:35 pm, Dddudley <puzzl...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>> esara wrote:
>>>> i did today service b for my honda civic 2001 sedan, manual
>>>> transmission. the dealer wrote the following in the note ""all
>>>> tires 7.5mm front pads 7mm (aftermrkt) rear shoes 4mm" what does
>>>> that mean please? what does "aftermrkt" means (that how the spell
>>>> it)?
>>>
>>>> thanks a lot.
>>>
>>> Just a SWAG (Scientific, Wild-Assed Guess)but I think it means that
>>> your tires (all of them)have approximately 7.5 mm of remaining
>>> tread. Your front brake pads, not Honda OEM, have 7mm of wear left
>>> and, last but not least, you have 4mm remaining wear on the rear
>>> shoes.
>>>
>>> Aftermkt = After market parts which means nothing other than the
>>> parts are not made by Honda or labeled as such by one of their
>>> suppliers.
>>
>> thanks a lot for your reply. i understand it now. do you think i
>> should change them soon or how long i can wait before replace them?
>> thanks a lot. they also recomend me to do the time build thing.
>> should i do it or wait? my car is 125km and it civic 2001. thanks
>
> They used to give this info in a more useful manner, such as 55%
> remaining, etc. Simply giving you a number for the brakes or tires
> without also giving you the appropriate service limits is pretty
> useless.
>
> 7.5mm on the tires is practically new. As far as the brake numbers,
> you should ask them point blank what the service limits are so you can
> make an intelligent decision. I suspect there is no hurry there
> either.
>
> As far as the timing belt (build?), if the belt has never been
> changed, it is about due based on age. You didn't list your mileage,
> but 2001 Hondas generally specified the belt change interval at 7
> years or 105,000 miles.
>
>

If the pads when new were,say 10mm,and he knows at what mileage they were
installed,he could figure his remaining life of the pads.

7/new pad thickness in mm(X) = miles driven on those pads/N miles total.
Solve for N.

N= (X) times miles driven/7

then subtract miles driven,and you've got remaining miles,approximately,for
his driving style.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

E. Meyer

On 12/29/09 10:51 AM, in article
Xns9CF078D53FB77jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44, "Jim Yanik"
<jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

> "E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:C75F6F84.15109%e.p.meyer@verizon.net:
>
>> On 12/29/09 8:10 AM, in article
>> 8a0ce1bd-921e-451a-bb11-3c076f0c17b7...oglegroups.com,
>> "esara"
>> <esara123@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 28, 10:35 pm, Dddudley <puzzl...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>> esara wrote:
>>>>> i did today service b for my honda civic 2001 sedan, manual
>>>>> transmission. the dealer wrote the following in the note ""all
>>>>> tires 7.5mm front pads 7mm (aftermrkt) rear shoes 4mm" what does
>>>>> that mean please? what does "aftermrkt" means (that how the spell
>>>>> it)?
>>>>
>>>>> thanks a lot.
>>>>
>>>> Just a SWAG (Scientific, Wild-Assed Guess)but I think it means that
>>>> your tires (all of them)have approximately 7.5 mm of remaining
>>>> tread. Your front brake pads, not Honda OEM, have 7mm of wear left
>>>> and, last but not least, you have 4mm remaining wear on the rear
>>>> shoes.
>>>>
>>>> Aftermkt = After market parts which means nothing other than the
>>>> parts are not made by Honda or labeled as such by one of their
>>>> suppliers.
>>>
>>> thanks a lot for your reply. i understand it now. do you think i
>>> should change them soon or how long i can wait before replace them?
>>> thanks a lot. they also recomend me to do the time build thing.
>>> should i do it or wait? my car is 125km and it civic 2001. thanks
>>
>> They used to give this info in a more useful manner, such as 55%
>> remaining, etc. Simply giving you a number for the brakes or tires
>> without also giving you the appropriate service limits is pretty
>> useless.
>>
>> 7.5mm on the tires is practically new. As far as the brake numbers,
>> you should ask them point blank what the service limits are so you can
>> make an intelligent decision. I suspect there is no hurry there
>> either.
>>
>> As far as the timing belt (build?), if the belt has never been
>> changed, it is about due based on age. You didn't list your mileage,
>> but 2001 Hondas generally specified the belt change interval at 7
>> years or 105,000 miles.
>>
>>
>
> If the pads when new were,say 10mm,and he knows at what mileage they were
> installed,he could figure his remaining life of the pads.
>
> 7/new pad thickness in mm(X) = miles driven on those pads/N miles total.
> Solve for N.
>
> N= (X) times miles driven/7
>
> then subtract miles driven,and you've got remaining miles,approximately,for
> his driving style.

He could, assuming there was any knowledge of how thick they were when new.
Other than measuring it myself, I've never seen that number anywhere either,
except in the serviceability specs (that are not in the owner's manual).

Jim Yanik

"E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote in
news:C75F9461.15117%e.p.meyer@verizon.net:

> On 12/29/09 10:51 AM, in article
> Xns9CF078D53FB77jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44, "Jim Yanik"
><jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> "E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote in
>> news:C75F6F84.15109%e.p.meyer@verizon.net:
>>
>>> On 12/29/09 8:10 AM, in article
>>> 8a0ce1bd-921e-451a-bb11-3c076f0c17b7...oglegroups.com,
>>> "esara"
>>> <esara123@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Dec 28, 10:35 pm, Dddudley <puzzl...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>> esara wrote:
>>>>>> i did today service b for my honda civic 2001 sedan, manual
>>>>>> transmission. the dealer wrote the following in the note ""all
>>>>>> tires 7.5mm front pads 7mm (aftermrkt) rear shoes 4mm" what does
>>>>>> that mean please? what does "aftermrkt" means (that how the spell
>>>>>> it)?
>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks a lot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just a SWAG (Scientific, Wild-Assed Guess)but I think it means
>>>>> that your tires (all of them)have approximately 7.5 mm of
>>>>> remaining tread. Your front brake pads, not Honda OEM, have 7mm
>>>>> of wear left and, last but not least, you have 4mm remaining wear
>>>>> on the rear shoes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Aftermkt = After market parts which means nothing other than the
>>>>> parts are not made by Honda or labeled as such by one of their
>>>>> suppliers.
>>>>
>>>> thanks a lot for your reply. i understand it now. do you think i
>>>> should change them soon or how long i can wait before replace them?
>>>> thanks a lot. they also recomend me to do the time build thing.
>>>> should i do it or wait? my car is 125km and it civic 2001. thanks
>>>
>>> They used to give this info in a more useful manner, such as 55%
>>> remaining, etc. Simply giving you a number for the brakes or tires
>>> without also giving you the appropriate service limits is pretty
>>> useless.
>>>
>>> 7.5mm on the tires is practically new. As far as the brake numbers,
>>> you should ask them point blank what the service limits are so you
>>> can make an intelligent decision. I suspect there is no hurry there
>>> either.
>>>
>>> As far as the timing belt (build?), if the belt has never been
>>> changed, it is about due based on age. You didn't list your
>>> mileage, but 2001 Hondas generally specified the belt change
>>> interval at 7 years or 105,000 miles.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> If the pads when new were,say 10mm,and he knows at what mileage they
>> were installed,he could figure his remaining life of the pads.
>>
>> 7/new pad thickness in mm(X) = miles driven on those pads/N miles
>> total. Solve for N.
>>
>> N= (X) times miles driven/7
>>
>> then subtract miles driven,and you've got remaining
>> miles,approximately,for his driving style.
>
> He could, assuming there was any knowledge of how thick they were when
> new. Other than measuring it myself, I've never seen that number
> anywhere either, except in the serviceability specs (that are not in
> the owner's manual).
>
>

Well,he could measure some new pads.
(the lining thickness...to state the obvious)

Maybe find a sympathetic parts clerk that would allow him to measure a new
set.[without having to actually buy them.... ;-) ]

I would not use it as an absolute standard,but as a guideline or ballpark
type of measurement.

Of course,that -assumes- even pad wear for inner and outer pads....

It would be an interesting experiment.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

jim beam

On 12/29/2009 08:51 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
> "E. Meyer"<e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:C75F6F84.15109%e.p.meyer@verizon.net:
>
>> On 12/29/09 8:10 AM, in article
>> 8a0ce1bd-921e-451a-bb11-3c076f0c17b7...oglegroups.com,
>> "esara"
>> <esara123@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 28, 10:35�pm, Dddudley<puzzl...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>> esara wrote:
>>>>> i did today service b for my honda civic 2001 sedan, manual
>>>>> transmission. the dealer wrote the following in the note ""all
>>>>> tires 7.5mm front pads 7mm (aftermrkt) rear shoes 4mm" �what does
>>>>> that mean please? what does "aftermrkt" means (that how the spell
>>>>> it)?
>>>>
>>>>> thanks a lot.
>>>>
>>>> Just a SWAG (Scientific, Wild-Assed Guess)but I think it means that
>>>> your tires (all of them)have approximately 7.5 mm of remaining
>>>> tread. �Your front brake pads, not Honda OEM, have 7mm of wear left
>>>> and, last but not least, you have 4mm remaining wear on the rear
>>>> shoes.
>>>>
>>>> Aftermkt = After market parts which means nothing other than the
>>>> parts are not made by Honda or labeled as such by one of their
>>>> suppliers.
>>>
>>> thanks a lot for your reply. i understand it now. do you think i
>>> should change them soon or how long i can wait before replace them?
>>> thanks a lot. they also recomend me to do the time build thing.
>>> should i do it or wait? my car is 125km and it civic 2001. thanks
>>
>> They used to give this info in a more useful manner, such as 55%
>> remaining, etc. Simply giving you a number for the brakes or tires
>> without also giving you the appropriate service limits is pretty
>> useless.
>>
>> 7.5mm on the tires is practically new. As far as the brake numbers,
>> you should ask them point blank what the service limits are so you can
>> make an intelligent decision. I suspect there is no hurry there
>> either.
>>
>> As far as the timing belt (build?), if the belt has never been
>> changed, it is about due based on age. You didn't list your mileage,
>> but 2001 Hondas generally specified the belt change interval at 7
>> years or 105,000 miles.
>>
>>
>
> If the pads when new were,say 10mm,and he knows at what mileage they were
> installed,he could figure his remaining life of the pads.
>
> 7/new pad thickness in mm(X) = miles driven on those pads/N miles total.
> Solve for N.
>
> N= (X) times miles driven/7
>
> then subtract miles driven,and you've got remaining miles,approximately,for
> his driving style.
>


in principle, you're right, but the math you show doesn't factor unless
the 7mm is pad material only, and not the pad /and/ backing plate [which
is what most shops measure]. and even then, you still shouldn't run it
down to zero. total thickness minus backing plate minus "safe residual"
is all you have to work with - "wearable" thickness. 7mm total with
backing plate is probably not a lot of wearable pad left.

Jim Yanik

jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in
news:-bOdnQpNdq1ddqfWnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@speakeasy.net:

> On 12/29/2009 08:51 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
>> "E. Meyer"<e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote in
>> news:C75F6F84.15109%e.p.meyer@verizon.net:
>>
>>> On 12/29/09 8:10 AM, in article
>>> 8a0ce1bd-921e-451a-bb11-3c076f0c17b7...oglegroups.com,
>>> "esara"
>>> <esara123@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Dec 28, 10:35�pm, Dddudley<puzzl...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>> esara wrote:
>>>>>> i did today service b for my honda civic 2001 sedan, manual
>>>>>> transmission. the dealer wrote the following in the note ""all
>>>>>> tires 7.5mm front pads 7mm (aftermrkt) rear shoes 4mm" �what
>>>>>> does that mean please? what does "aftermrkt" means (that how the
>>>>>> spell it)?
>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks a lot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just a SWAG (Scientific, Wild-Assed Guess)but I think it means
>>>>> that your tires (all of them)have approximately 7.5 mm of
>>>>> remaining tread. �Your front brake pads, not Honda OEM, have 7mm
>>>>> of wear left and, last but not least, you have 4mm remaining wear
>>>>> on the rear shoes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Aftermkt = After market parts which means nothing other than the
>>>>> parts are not made by Honda or labeled as such by one of their
>>>>> suppliers.
>>>>
>>>> thanks a lot for your reply. i understand it now. do you think i
>>>> should change them soon or how long i can wait before replace them?
>>>> thanks a lot. they also recomend me to do the time build thing.
>>>> should i do it or wait? my car is 125km and it civic 2001. thanks
>>>
>>> They used to give this info in a more useful manner, such as 55%
>>> remaining, etc. Simply giving you a number for the brakes or tires
>>> without also giving you the appropriate service limits is pretty
>>> useless.
>>>
>>> 7.5mm on the tires is practically new. As far as the brake numbers,
>>> you should ask them point blank what the service limits are so you
>>> can make an intelligent decision. I suspect there is no hurry there
>>> either.
>>>
>>> As far as the timing belt (build?), if the belt has never been
>>> changed, it is about due based on age. You didn't list your
>>> mileage, but 2001 Hondas generally specified the belt change
>>> interval at 7 years or 105,000 miles.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> If the pads when new were,say 10mm,and he knows at what mileage they
>> were installed,he could figure his remaining life of the pads.
>>
>> 7/new pad thickness in mm(X) = miles driven on those pads/N miles
>> total. Solve for N.
>>
>> N= (X) times miles driven/7
>>
>> then subtract miles driven,and you've got remaining
>> miles,approximately,for his driving style.
>>
>
>
> in principle, you're right, but the math you show doesn't factor
> unless the 7mm is pad material only,

it's not logical to measure the backing plate WRT pad wear.

> and not the pad /and/ backing
> plate [which is what most shops measure].

then the OP's "7 mm remaining" is EXTREMELY thin and dangerous,and the
mechanic should have recommended pad replacement.

> and even then, you still
> shouldn't run it down to zero. total thickness minus backing plate
> minus "safe residual" is all you have to work with - "wearable"
> thickness. 7mm total with backing plate is probably not a lot of
> wearable pad left.
>
>

the backing plate alone is probably 7mm,or close to it.

Yes,after figuring remaining mileage for total pad thickness remaining,you
should subtract the minimum pad thickness(in miles) to determine how much
usable mileage you have remaining.

That minimum pad thickness is a safety reserve,to keep you from grinding
the rotor with the backing plate,and causing a greater repair expense.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

jim beam

On 12/30/2009 05:14 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in
> news:-bOdnQpNdq1ddqfWnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@speakeasy.net:
>
>> On 12/29/2009 08:51 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
>>> "E. Meyer"<e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote in
>>> news:C75F6F84.15109%e.p.meyer@verizon.net:
>>>
>>>> On 12/29/09 8:10 AM, in article
>>>> 8a0ce1bd-921e-451a-bb11-3c076f0c17b7...oglegroups.com,
>>>> "esara"
>>>> <esara123@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 28, 10:35�pm, Dddudley<puzzl...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>> esara wrote:
>>>>>>> i did today service b for my honda civic 2001 sedan, manual
>>>>>>> transmission. the dealer wrote the following in the note ""all
>>>>>>> tires 7.5mm front pads 7mm (aftermrkt) rear shoes 4mm" �what
>>>>>>> does that mean please? what does "aftermrkt" means (that how the
>>>>>>> spell it)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks a lot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just a SWAG (Scientific, Wild-Assed Guess)but I think it means
>>>>>> that your tires (all of them)have approximately 7.5 mm of
>>>>>> remaining tread. �Your front brake pads, not Honda OEM, have 7mm
>>>>>> of wear left and, last but not least, you have 4mm remaining wear
>>>>>> on the rear shoes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aftermkt = After market parts which means nothing other than the
>>>>>> parts are not made by Honda or labeled as such by one of their
>>>>>> suppliers.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks a lot for your reply. i understand it now. do you think i
>>>>> should change them soon or how long i can wait before replace them?
>>>>> thanks a lot. they also recomend me to do the time build thing.
>>>>> should i do it or wait? my car is 125km and it civic 2001. thanks
>>>>
>>>> They used to give this info in a more useful manner, such as 55%
>>>> remaining, etc. Simply giving you a number for the brakes or tires
>>>> without also giving you the appropriate service limits is pretty
>>>> useless.
>>>>
>>>> 7.5mm on the tires is practically new. As far as the brake numbers,
>>>> you should ask them point blank what the service limits are so you
>>>> can make an intelligent decision. I suspect there is no hurry there
>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>> As far as the timing belt (build?), if the belt has never been
>>>> changed, it is about due based on age. You didn't list your
>>>> mileage, but 2001 Hondas generally specified the belt change
>>>> interval at 7 years or 105,000 miles.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> If the pads when new were,say 10mm,and he knows at what mileage they
>>> were installed,he could figure his remaining life of the pads.
>>>
>>> 7/new pad thickness in mm(X) = miles driven on those pads/N miles
>>> total. Solve for N.
>>>
>>> N= (X) times miles driven/7
>>>
>>> then subtract miles driven,and you've got remaining
>>> miles,approximately,for his driving style.
>>>
>>
>>
>> in principle, you're right, but the math you show doesn't factor
>> unless the 7mm is pad material only,
>
> it's not logical to measure the backing plate WRT pad wear.

indeed, but it's the simplest measurement to make.


>
>> and not the pad /and/ backing
>> plate [which is what most shops measure].
>
> then the OP's "7 mm remaining" is EXTREMELY thin and dangerous,and the
> mechanic should have recommended pad replacement.
>
>> and even then, you still
>> shouldn't run it down to zero. total thickness minus backing plate
>> minus "safe residual" is all you have to work with - "wearable"
>> thickness. 7mm total with backing plate is probably not a lot of
>> wearable pad left.
>>
>>
>
> the backing plate alone is probably 7mm,or close to it.

6.1mm on a set of new oem honda. total thickness 17.0mm. with a 1.9mm*
"reserve", that's 9.0mm "wearable" from new.


>
> Yes,after figuring remaining mileage for total pad thickness remaining,you
> should subtract the minimum pad thickness(in miles) to determine how much
> usable mileage you have remaining.
>
> That minimum pad thickness is a safety reserve,to keep you from grinding
> the rotor with the backing plate,and causing a greater repair expense.
>


* - a "round" guesstimated number.

Jim Yanik

jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in
news:L4mdnSHzfpFW-qbWnZ2dnUVZ_q-dnZ2d@speakeasy.net:

> On 12/30/2009 05:14 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in
>> news:-bOdnQpNdq1ddqfWnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@speakeasy.net:
>>
>>> On 12/29/2009 08:51 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>> "E. Meyer"<e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote in
>>>> news:C75F6F84.15109%e.p.meyer@verizon.net:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/29/09 8:10 AM, in article
>>>>> 8a0ce1bd-921e-451a-bb11-3c076f0c17b7...oglegroups.com,
>>>>> "esara"
>>>>> <esara123@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 28, 10:35�pm, Dddudley<puzzl...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> esara wrote:
>>>>>>>> i did today service b for my honda civic 2001 sedan, manual
>>>>>>>> transmission. the dealer wrote the following in the note ""all
>>>>>>>> tires 7.5mm front pads 7mm (aftermrkt) rear shoes 4mm" �what
>>>>>>>> does that mean please? what does "aftermrkt" means (that how
>>>>>>>> the spell it)?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thanks a lot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just a SWAG (Scientific, Wild-Assed Guess)but I think it means
>>>>>>> that your tires (all of them)have approximately 7.5 mm of
>>>>>>> remaining tread. �Your front brake pads, not Honda OEM, have
>>>>>>> 7mm of wear left and, last but not least, you have 4mm remaining
>>>>>>> wear on the rear shoes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aftermkt = After market parts which means nothing other than the
>>>>>>> parts are not made by Honda or labeled as such by one of their
>>>>>>> suppliers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks a lot for your reply. i understand it now. do you think i
>>>>>> should change them soon or how long i can wait before replace
>>>>>> them? thanks a lot. they also recomend me to do the time build
>>>>>> thing. should i do it or wait? my car is 125km and it civic 2001.
>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> They used to give this info in a more useful manner, such as 55%
>>>>> remaining, etc. Simply giving you a number for the brakes or
>>>>> tires without also giving you the appropriate service limits is
>>>>> pretty useless.
>>>>>
>>>>> 7.5mm on the tires is practically new. As far as the brake
>>>>> numbers, you should ask them point blank what the service limits
>>>>> are so you can make an intelligent decision. I suspect there is
>>>>> no hurry there either.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as the timing belt (build?), if the belt has never been
>>>>> changed, it is about due based on age. You didn't list your
>>>>> mileage, but 2001 Hondas generally specified the belt change
>>>>> interval at 7 years or 105,000 miles.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If the pads when new were,say 10mm,and he knows at what mileage
>>>> they were installed,he could figure his remaining life of the pads.
>>>>
>>>> 7/new pad thickness in mm(X) = miles driven on those pads/N miles
>>>> total. Solve for N.
>>>>
>>>> N= (X) times miles driven/7
>>>>
>>>> then subtract miles driven,and you've got remaining
>>>> miles,approximately,for his driving style.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> in principle, you're right, but the math you show doesn't factor
>>> unless the 7mm is pad material only,
>>
>> it's not logical to measure the backing plate WRT pad wear.
>
> indeed, but it's the simplest measurement to make.
>
>
>>
>>> and not the pad /and/ backing
>>> plate [which is what most shops measure].
>>
>> then the OP's "7 mm remaining" is EXTREMELY thin and dangerous,and
>> the mechanic should have recommended pad replacement.
>>
>>> and even then, you still
>>> shouldn't run it down to zero. total thickness minus backing plate
>>> minus "safe residual" is all you have to work with - "wearable"
>>> thickness. 7mm total with backing plate is probably not a lot of
>>> wearable pad left.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> the backing plate alone is probably 7mm,or close to it.
>
> 6.1mm on a set of new oem honda. total thickness 17.0mm. with a
> 1.9mm* "reserve", that's 9.0mm "wearable" from new.

Thanks,this is good to know.
Heh,I was pretty close on my guesstimate of 10mm for a new pad.
and that from memory!

So,the OP's mechanic would have been "remiss" in not recommending new pads
with his "7mm" measurement,as that would only leave 0.9mm "reserve" before
the operator gouges his rotors.(if he included the backing plate in it)

But 7mm of a 9mm pad would not even be worth mentioning to the
customer IMO,plenty of pad life left.

>
>
>>
>> Yes,after figuring remaining mileage for total pad thickness
>> remaining,you should subtract the minimum pad thickness(in miles) to
>> determine how much usable mileage you have remaining.
>>
>> That minimum pad thickness is a safety reserve,to keep you from
>> grinding the rotor with the backing plate,and causing a greater
>> repair expense.
>>
>
>
> * - a "round" guesstimated number.
>

The two Haynes manuals(yes,but that's all I have...) I checked cited a
1/16"(.0625) reserve pad thickness,that works out to 1.6mm,so you would
have 9.3mm usable pad thickness. However,in calculating "mileage per
mm",all you need is original pad thickness and how much was left after the
miles you drove,to get the amount of pad used per miles driven.
What's left only matters in how close you want to gamble before installing
new pads.

Some people might choose to set a larger "reserve",in case uneven wear
occurs due to a stuck caliper or other problem. That happened on my last
brake job,I only had maybe 1mm left on the outside pad,and inside pad had
hardly any wear.I had stuck caliper pins(Sentra) and had to buy a new
bracket and pin kits,couldn't free one pin from the bracket.


It's important to note (for the lurkers)that this calc only fits an
individual driver and car,as people differ in their driving habits and use
of their brakes.
Some people like to ride their brakes,too... ;-(


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

jim beam

On 12/30/2009 09:23 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in
> news:L4mdnSHzfpFW-qbWnZ2dnUVZ_q-dnZ2d@speakeasy.net:
>
>> On 12/30/2009 05:14 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in
>>> news:-bOdnQpNdq1ddqfWnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@speakeasy.net:
>>>
>>>> On 12/29/2009 08:51 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>>> "E. Meyer"<e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote in
>>>>> news:C75F6F84.15109%e.p.meyer@verizon.net:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/29/09 8:10 AM, in article
>>>>>> 8a0ce1bd-921e-451a-bb11-3c076f0c17b7...oglegroups.com,
>>>>>> "esara"
>>>>>> <esara123@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 28, 10:35�pm, Dddudley<puzzl...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> esara wrote:
>>>>>>>>> i did today service b for my honda civic 2001 sedan, manual
>>>>>>>>> transmission. the dealer wrote the following in the note ""all
>>>>>>>>> tires 7.5mm front pads 7mm (aftermrkt) rear shoes 4mm" �what
>>>>>>>>> does that mean please? what does "aftermrkt" means (that how
>>>>>>>>> the spell it)?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thanks a lot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just a SWAG (Scientific, Wild-Assed Guess)but I think it means
>>>>>>>> that your tires (all of them)have approximately 7.5 mm of
>>>>>>>> remaining tread. �Your front brake pads, not Honda OEM, have
>>>>>>>> 7mm of wear left and, last but not least, you have 4mm remaining
>>>>>>>> wear on the rear shoes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Aftermkt = After market parts which means nothing other than the
>>>>>>>> parts are not made by Honda or labeled as such by one of their
>>>>>>>> suppliers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks a lot for your reply. i understand it now. do you think i
>>>>>>> should change them soon or how long i can wait before replace
>>>>>>> them? thanks a lot. they also recomend me to do the time build
>>>>>>> thing. should i do it or wait? my car is 125km and it civic 2001.
>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They used to give this info in a more useful manner, such as 55%
>>>>>> remaining, etc. Simply giving you a number for the brakes or
>>>>>> tires without also giving you the appropriate service limits is
>>>>>> pretty useless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 7.5mm on the tires is practically new. As far as the brake
>>>>>> numbers, you should ask them point blank what the service limits
>>>>>> are so you can make an intelligent decision. I suspect there is
>>>>>> no hurry there either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as the timing belt (build?), if the belt has never been
>>>>>> changed, it is about due based on age. You didn't list your
>>>>>> mileage, but 2001 Hondas generally specified the belt change
>>>>>> interval at 7 years or 105,000 miles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If the pads when new were,say 10mm,and he knows at what mileage
>>>>> they were installed,he could figure his remaining life of the pads.
>>>>>
>>>>> 7/new pad thickness in mm(X) = miles driven on those pads/N miles
>>>>> total. Solve for N.
>>>>>
>>>>> N= (X) times miles driven/7
>>>>>
>>>>> then subtract miles driven,and you've got remaining
>>>>> miles,approximately,for his driving style.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> in principle, you're right, but the math you show doesn't factor
>>>> unless the 7mm is pad material only,
>>>
>>> it's not logical to measure the backing plate WRT pad wear.
>>
>> indeed, but it's the simplest measurement to make.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> and not the pad /and/ backing
>>>> plate [which is what most shops measure].
>>>
>>> then the OP's "7 mm remaining" is EXTREMELY thin and dangerous,and
>>> the mechanic should have recommended pad replacement.
>>>
>>>> and even then, you still
>>>> shouldn't run it down to zero. total thickness minus backing plate
>>>> minus "safe residual" is all you have to work with - "wearable"
>>>> thickness. 7mm total with backing plate is probably not a lot of
>>>> wearable pad left.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> the backing plate alone is probably 7mm,or close to it.
>>
>> 6.1mm on a set of new oem honda. total thickness 17.0mm. with a
>> 1.9mm* "reserve", that's 9.0mm "wearable" from new.
>
> Thanks,this is good to know.
> Heh,I was pretty close on my guesstimate of 10mm for a new pad.
> and that from memory!
>
> So,the OP's mechanic would have been "remiss" in not recommending new pads
> with his "7mm" measurement,as that would only leave 0.9mm "reserve" before
> the operator gouges his rotors.(if he included the backing plate in it)
>
> But 7mm of a 9mm pad would not even be worth mentioning to the
> customer IMO,plenty of pad life left.
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Yes,after figuring remaining mileage for total pad thickness
>>> remaining,you should subtract the minimum pad thickness(in miles) to
>>> determine how much usable mileage you have remaining.
>>>
>>> That minimum pad thickness is a safety reserve,to keep you from
>>> grinding the rotor with the backing plate,and causing a greater
>>> repair expense.
>>>
>>
>>
>> * - a "round" guesstimated number.
>>
>
> The two Haynes manuals(yes,but that's all I have...) I checked cited a
> 1/16"(.0625) reserve pad thickness,that works out to 1.6mm,so you would
> have 9.3mm usable pad thickness.

just looked in the service manuals i have - it's inconsistent. the 89
civic has a service limit of 3.0mm, the 2000 civic has 1.6mm. given
that modern brake pad materials are better than 20 years ago, i think
you can safely choose your own poison anywhere between these two.


> However,in calculating "mileage per
> mm",all you need is original pad thickness and how much was left after the
> miles you drove,to get the amount of pad used per miles driven.
> What's left only matters in how close you want to gamble before installing
> new pads.
>
> Some people might choose to set a larger "reserve",in case uneven wear
> occurs due to a stuck caliper or other problem. That happened on my last
> brake job,I only had maybe 1mm left on the outside pad,and inside pad had
> hardly any wear.I had stuck caliper pins(Sentra) and had to buy a new
> bracket and pin kits,couldn't free one pin from the bracket.
>
>
> It's important to note (for the lurkers)that this calc only fits an
> individual driver and car,as people differ in their driving habits and use
> of their brakes.
> Some people like to ride their brakes,too... ;-(
>
>