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Re: whats your favorite scan tool
On 28 Mar 2005 18:17:42 -0800, "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Do I understand this right: One downloads the appropriate software for >the car of interest? > OBD-II is actually three separate protocols: ISO, VPW, and PMW. Your car uses just one of these three. Inorder to be compliant to OBD-II the device must be able to interface to each of the three protocols. I suspect taht ISO, VPW, and PMW are lower layer protocols that are just responsible for getting the "OBD-II content message" (i.e., trouble code X) transmitted from the vehicle to the reading device. The code itself is universal across the three protocol (e.g., trouble code 1011 (made up) means speed sensor malfunction over each of the three protocols). Many of the cheap PC versions of the interface require the user to purchase a cheap interface card (under $100) that supports just one of the three protocols. So it is technically not a certified OBD-II device. Then there are an assortment of free and non-free programs that you can use with the card. Each manufacture has extended OBD-II interface and will have codes that are unique to that manufacturer. I believe you can get access to these online but if not the service manual should theoretically have the codes. OBD-II is quite limited in that there are just a few operations that can be invoked. Examples include: a) fetch code, b) run a test c) clear code. Many (all?) manufactures have extended the interface to allow other operations. One program allows you to send any command but you basically have to figure out the binary representation of the command. Theoretically this is dangerous because it is error prone and the specs probably arent published. I wonder if you can reload the firmware of the engine control module this way? |
Re: whats your favorite scan tool
On 28 Mar 2005 18:17:42 -0800, "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Do I understand this right: One downloads the appropriate software for >the car of interest? > OBD-II is actually three separate protocols: ISO, VPW, and PMW. Your car uses just one of these three. Inorder to be compliant to OBD-II the device must be able to interface to each of the three protocols. I suspect taht ISO, VPW, and PMW are lower layer protocols that are just responsible for getting the "OBD-II content message" (i.e., trouble code X) transmitted from the vehicle to the reading device. The code itself is universal across the three protocol (e.g., trouble code 1011 (made up) means speed sensor malfunction over each of the three protocols). Many of the cheap PC versions of the interface require the user to purchase a cheap interface card (under $100) that supports just one of the three protocols. So it is technically not a certified OBD-II device. Then there are an assortment of free and non-free programs that you can use with the card. Each manufacture has extended OBD-II interface and will have codes that are unique to that manufacturer. I believe you can get access to these online but if not the service manual should theoretically have the codes. OBD-II is quite limited in that there are just a few operations that can be invoked. Examples include: a) fetch code, b) run a test c) clear code. Many (all?) manufactures have extended the interface to allow other operations. One program allows you to send any command but you basically have to figure out the binary representation of the command. Theoretically this is dangerous because it is error prone and the specs probably arent published. I wonder if you can reload the firmware of the engine control module this way? |
Re: whats your favorite scan tool
<kiselink@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:um1i419kl841j5h8o1is5ao7cnq3f4k9o5@4ax.com... > On 28 Mar 2005 18:17:42 -0800, "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>Do I understand this right: One downloads the appropriate software for >>the car of interest? >> <snip> > Many of the cheap PC versions of the interface require the user to > purchase a cheap interface card (under $100) that supports just one of > the three protocols. So it is technically not a certified OBD-II > device. Then there are an assortment of free and non-free programs > that you can use with the card. > I'd be surprised if any software can make the interface work without the hardware, because the connector and voltage levels are not compatible with any normal pc hardware. Usually the card does the hardware adaptation and changes the message to a byte-oriented protocol the computer can deal with. I opted for a stand-alone tool because I don't have a laptop or PDA handy and I don't foresee the need for logging, etc. Mike |
Re: whats your favorite scan tool
<kiselink@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:um1i419kl841j5h8o1is5ao7cnq3f4k9o5@4ax.com... > On 28 Mar 2005 18:17:42 -0800, "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>Do I understand this right: One downloads the appropriate software for >>the car of interest? >> <snip> > Many of the cheap PC versions of the interface require the user to > purchase a cheap interface card (under $100) that supports just one of > the three protocols. So it is technically not a certified OBD-II > device. Then there are an assortment of free and non-free programs > that you can use with the card. > I'd be surprised if any software can make the interface work without the hardware, because the connector and voltage levels are not compatible with any normal pc hardware. Usually the card does the hardware adaptation and changes the message to a byte-oriented protocol the computer can deal with. I opted for a stand-alone tool because I don't have a laptop or PDA handy and I don't foresee the need for logging, etc. Mike |
Re: whats your favorite scan tool
OBDII dictates the EPA code in the computer. It does not dictate the
protocol used to communicate with the test tool. That is why there are three different types. ISO is used by Chrysler and most foreign cars, VPW is used by GM, and PMW is used by ford. A device with only one of these is still OBDII compliant for that car line. Most will attach to all three, some you pay extra for each connection type. All car manufacturers put a lot of diagnostic code in their systems above the compliant code. Most consumer scanners do not have the ability to get this proprietary information. There are some that can get some of the information but they get expensive. That said for the majority of the home users the consumer products work fine. Just make sure the one you get covers the car lines you expect to use it on. <kiselink@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:um1i419kl841j5h8o1is5ao7cnq3f4k9o5@4ax.com... > On 28 Mar 2005 18:17:42 -0800, "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>Do I understand this right: One downloads the appropriate software for >>the car of interest? >> > > > OBD-II is actually three separate protocols: ISO, VPW, and PMW. Your > car uses just one of these three. Inorder to be compliant to OBD-II > the device must be able to interface to each of the three protocols. > > I suspect taht ISO, VPW, and PMW are lower layer protocols that are > just responsible for getting the "OBD-II content message" (i.e., > trouble code X) transmitted from the vehicle to the reading device. > The code itself is universal across the three protocol (e.g., trouble > code 1011 (made up) means speed sensor malfunction over each of the > three protocols). > > > Many of the cheap PC versions of the interface require the user to > purchase a cheap interface card (under $100) that supports just one of > the three protocols. So it is technically not a certified OBD-II > device. Then there are an assortment of free and non-free programs > that you can use with the card. > > Each manufacture has extended OBD-II interface and will have codes > that are unique to that manufacturer. I believe you can get access to > these online but if not the service manual should theoretically have > the codes. > > OBD-II is quite limited in that there are just a few operations that > can be invoked. Examples include: a) fetch code, b) run a test c) > clear code. > > Many (all?) manufactures have extended the interface to allow other > operations. One program allows you to send any command but you > basically have to figure out the binary representation of the command. > Theoretically this is dangerous because it is error prone and the > specs probably arent published. > > I wonder if you can reload the firmware of the engine control module > this way? |
Re: whats your favorite scan tool
OBDII dictates the EPA code in the computer. It does not dictate the
protocol used to communicate with the test tool. That is why there are three different types. ISO is used by Chrysler and most foreign cars, VPW is used by GM, and PMW is used by ford. A device with only one of these is still OBDII compliant for that car line. Most will attach to all three, some you pay extra for each connection type. All car manufacturers put a lot of diagnostic code in their systems above the compliant code. Most consumer scanners do not have the ability to get this proprietary information. There are some that can get some of the information but they get expensive. That said for the majority of the home users the consumer products work fine. Just make sure the one you get covers the car lines you expect to use it on. <kiselink@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:um1i419kl841j5h8o1is5ao7cnq3f4k9o5@4ax.com... > On 28 Mar 2005 18:17:42 -0800, "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>Do I understand this right: One downloads the appropriate software for >>the car of interest? >> > > > OBD-II is actually three separate protocols: ISO, VPW, and PMW. Your > car uses just one of these three. Inorder to be compliant to OBD-II > the device must be able to interface to each of the three protocols. > > I suspect taht ISO, VPW, and PMW are lower layer protocols that are > just responsible for getting the "OBD-II content message" (i.e., > trouble code X) transmitted from the vehicle to the reading device. > The code itself is universal across the three protocol (e.g., trouble > code 1011 (made up) means speed sensor malfunction over each of the > three protocols). > > > Many of the cheap PC versions of the interface require the user to > purchase a cheap interface card (under $100) that supports just one of > the three protocols. So it is technically not a certified OBD-II > device. Then there are an assortment of free and non-free programs > that you can use with the card. > > Each manufacture has extended OBD-II interface and will have codes > that are unique to that manufacturer. I believe you can get access to > these online but if not the service manual should theoretically have > the codes. > > OBD-II is quite limited in that there are just a few operations that > can be invoked. Examples include: a) fetch code, b) run a test c) > clear code. > > Many (all?) manufactures have extended the interface to allow other > operations. One program allows you to send any command but you > basically have to figure out the binary representation of the command. > Theoretically this is dangerous because it is error prone and the > specs probably arent published. > > I wonder if you can reload the firmware of the engine control module > this way? |
Re: whats your favorite scan tool
I like the Honda HDS. ha ha.
"halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> wrote in message news:Z4WdnfIsLsAa69XfRVn-ug@comcast.com... > For those who do repairs what is your favorite scan tool? I am thinking > about purchasing an Actron cp9145 for $180.00 > |
Re: whats your favorite scan tool
I like the Honda HDS. ha ha.
"halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> wrote in message news:Z4WdnfIsLsAa69XfRVn-ug@comcast.com... > For those who do repairs what is your favorite scan tool? I am thinking > about purchasing an Actron cp9145 for $180.00 > |
Re: whats your favorite scan tool
Me too but it costs more than my Odyssey....
"Lex" <aacevedo4@elp.rr.com> wrote in message news:%bn2e.42297$Ux.25320@tornado.texas.rr.com... >I like the Honda HDS. ha ha. > "halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> wrote in message > news:Z4WdnfIsLsAa69XfRVn-ug@comcast.com... >> For those who do repairs what is your favorite scan tool? I am thinking >> about purchasing an Actron cp9145 for $180.00 >> > > > |
Re: whats your favorite scan tool
Me too but it costs more than my Odyssey....
"Lex" <aacevedo4@elp.rr.com> wrote in message news:%bn2e.42297$Ux.25320@tornado.texas.rr.com... >I like the Honda HDS. ha ha. > "halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> wrote in message > news:Z4WdnfIsLsAa69XfRVn-ug@comcast.com... >> For those who do repairs what is your favorite scan tool? I am thinking >> about purchasing an Actron cp9145 for $180.00 >> > > > |
Re: whats your favorite scan tool
i didn't pay for it, i was Honda trained how to use it.
"Woody" <TheDuck@pond.net> wrote in message news:fTV3e.28804$hU7.8182@newssvr33.news.prodigy.c om... > Me too but it costs more than my Odyssey.... > > > "Lex" <aacevedo4@elp.rr.com> wrote in message > news:%bn2e.42297$Ux.25320@tornado.texas.rr.com... >>I like the Honda HDS. ha ha. >> "halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> wrote in message >> news:Z4WdnfIsLsAa69XfRVn-ug@comcast.com... >>> For those who do repairs what is your favorite scan tool? I am thinking >>> about purchasing an Actron cp9145 for $180.00 >>> >> >> >> > > |
Re: whats your favorite scan tool
i didn't pay for it, i was Honda trained how to use it.
"Woody" <TheDuck@pond.net> wrote in message news:fTV3e.28804$hU7.8182@newssvr33.news.prodigy.c om... > Me too but it costs more than my Odyssey.... > > > "Lex" <aacevedo4@elp.rr.com> wrote in message > news:%bn2e.42297$Ux.25320@tornado.texas.rr.com... >>I like the Honda HDS. ha ha. >> "halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> wrote in message >> news:Z4WdnfIsLsAa69XfRVn-ug@comcast.com... >>> For those who do repairs what is your favorite scan tool? I am thinking >>> about purchasing an Actron cp9145 for $180.00 >>> >> >> >> > > |
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