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windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
When the windshield defogger is operating in my 2003 Accord (on
a cool temperature setting), and the A/C is apparently off (the A/C indicator lamp is unlit), I note that really cool air comes out of the upper dash vents even in mid-80s weather. The air is so cool, especially when the car's interior is not hot, that I find myself not even needing to activate the A/C! What is the source of this cool air? Is the A/C system actually operating in tandem with the windshield defogger on the cool setting? Paul |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
Yes it is. The purpose being to dehumidify the air.
Adjust the temperature setting to suit. mike hunt Paul Stuart wrote: > >Is the A/C system actually > operating in tandem with the windshield defogger on the cool setting? > > Paul |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
Yes it is. The purpose being to dehumidify the air.
Adjust the temperature setting to suit. mike hunt Paul Stuart wrote: > >Is the A/C system actually > operating in tandem with the windshield defogger on the cool setting? > > Paul |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
It actually is the reverse........use the recirc air button once the air is
cold inside the cabin......make the ac work less as it is recirculating cooler air. Don't use the recirc button until the air is cool.....and open the window for a few moments to have hot air escape faster "bearman" <noyb@home.com> wrote in message news:Yr2cnWhSMeDilt-iU-KYuQ@comcast.com... > > I thought we were supposed to run the a/c in recirc (with a window open to > get rid of the warm air) when first starting it to cool down quicker then > switch to Fresh. Seems like running in recirc all the time would cause the > interior air to get pretty stale and maybe even dangerous. > > > "Paul Stuart" <pstuart03@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:b46b8f39.0308190228.2578785b@posting.google.c om... > > BigJohnson@mailcity.com wrote in message > news:<3F412874.34017441@mailcity.com>... > > > Yes it is. The purpose being to dehumidify the air. > > > Adjust the temperature setting to suit. > > > > Hello, Mike! > > > > Thanks for your information. Because I thought the A/C system was > > inactive before receiving your response, I was hoping that I had found > > a way to actually conserve the use of the system and compressor > > during warm days. > > > > When I need a quick cool off on hot days, I let the A/C run for a few > > minutes on Fresh Air mode to cool off the interior, then I press the > > Recirc button and adjust the temperature setting to a warmer one. > > With the Recirc and warmer setting, the system and compressor would not > > need to work as hard to continue cooling, which I think is better for > > the system in the long run. > > > > I also get slightly better fuel economy when I do this. I note that > > I travel about 360 miles on 12 gallons of 87 octane, which is about > > 30 mpg, with very little of this highway driving. I think I might > > get better mileage during the winter, but I'm not so sure, because > > these New Jersey gas stations use oxygenated fuels starting in November. > > > > Paul > > |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
It actually is the reverse........use the recirc air button once the air is
cold inside the cabin......make the ac work less as it is recirculating cooler air. Don't use the recirc button until the air is cool.....and open the window for a few moments to have hot air escape faster "bearman" <noyb@home.com> wrote in message news:Yr2cnWhSMeDilt-iU-KYuQ@comcast.com... > > I thought we were supposed to run the a/c in recirc (with a window open to > get rid of the warm air) when first starting it to cool down quicker then > switch to Fresh. Seems like running in recirc all the time would cause the > interior air to get pretty stale and maybe even dangerous. > > > "Paul Stuart" <pstuart03@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:b46b8f39.0308190228.2578785b@posting.google.c om... > > BigJohnson@mailcity.com wrote in message > news:<3F412874.34017441@mailcity.com>... > > > Yes it is. The purpose being to dehumidify the air. > > > Adjust the temperature setting to suit. > > > > Hello, Mike! > > > > Thanks for your information. Because I thought the A/C system was > > inactive before receiving your response, I was hoping that I had found > > a way to actually conserve the use of the system and compressor > > during warm days. > > > > When I need a quick cool off on hot days, I let the A/C run for a few > > minutes on Fresh Air mode to cool off the interior, then I press the > > Recirc button and adjust the temperature setting to a warmer one. > > With the Recirc and warmer setting, the system and compressor would not > > need to work as hard to continue cooling, which I think is better for > > the system in the long run. > > > > I also get slightly better fuel economy when I do this. I note that > > I travel about 360 miles on 12 gallons of 87 octane, which is about > > 30 mpg, with very little of this highway driving. I think I might > > get better mileage during the winter, but I'm not so sure, because > > these New Jersey gas stations use oxygenated fuels starting in November. > > > > Paul > > |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
Actually you have it backward. One should run on fresh (outside)
air to pull in outside air and push out the hot air within, when using Air conditioner. Once the vehicle begins to cool, go to recirc to re-cool the dehumidified air inside the vehicle. There is always an infusion of some outside air in any event. In the defrost mode the air source is from outside. If you vehicle has a manual recirc/fresh (outside) air controller, the recirc should only be used for AC, not heating, or your will build up humidity. Read your owners manual for complete instruction of the operating of the HVAC system, WBMA mike hunt bearman wrote: > > I thought we were supposed to run the a/c in recirc (with a window open to > get rid of the warm air) when first starting it to cool down quicker then > switch to Fresh. Seems like running in recirc all the time would cause the > interior air to get pretty stale and maybe even dangerous. > > "Paul Stuart" <pstuart03@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:b46b8f39.0308190228.2578785b@posting.google.c om... > > BigJohnson@mailcity.com wrote in message > news:<3F412874.34017441@mailcity.com>... > > > Yes it is. The purpose being to dehumidify the air. > > > Adjust the temperature setting to suit. > > > > Hello, Mike! > > > > Thanks for your information. Because I thought the A/C system was > > inactive before receiving your response, I was hoping that I had found > > a way to actually conserve the use of the system and compressor > > during warm days. > > > > When I need a quick cool off on hot days, I let the A/C run for a few > > minutes on Fresh Air mode to cool off the interior, then I press the > > Recirc button and adjust the temperature setting to a warmer one. > > With the Recirc and warmer setting, the system and compressor would not > > need to work as hard to continue cooling, which I think is better for > > the system in the long run. > > > > I also get slightly better fuel economy when I do this. I note that > > I travel about 360 miles on 12 gallons of 87 octane, which is about > > 30 mpg, with very little of this highway driving. I think I might > > get better mileage during the winter, but I'm not so sure, because > > these New Jersey gas stations use oxygenated fuels starting in November. > > > > Paul |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
Actually you have it backward. One should run on fresh (outside)
air to pull in outside air and push out the hot air within, when using Air conditioner. Once the vehicle begins to cool, go to recirc to re-cool the dehumidified air inside the vehicle. There is always an infusion of some outside air in any event. In the defrost mode the air source is from outside. If you vehicle has a manual recirc/fresh (outside) air controller, the recirc should only be used for AC, not heating, or your will build up humidity. Read your owners manual for complete instruction of the operating of the HVAC system, WBMA mike hunt bearman wrote: > > I thought we were supposed to run the a/c in recirc (with a window open to > get rid of the warm air) when first starting it to cool down quicker then > switch to Fresh. Seems like running in recirc all the time would cause the > interior air to get pretty stale and maybe even dangerous. > > "Paul Stuart" <pstuart03@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:b46b8f39.0308190228.2578785b@posting.google.c om... > > BigJohnson@mailcity.com wrote in message > news:<3F412874.34017441@mailcity.com>... > > > Yes it is. The purpose being to dehumidify the air. > > > Adjust the temperature setting to suit. > > > > Hello, Mike! > > > > Thanks for your information. Because I thought the A/C system was > > inactive before receiving your response, I was hoping that I had found > > a way to actually conserve the use of the system and compressor > > during warm days. > > > > When I need a quick cool off on hot days, I let the A/C run for a few > > minutes on Fresh Air mode to cool off the interior, then I press the > > Recirc button and adjust the temperature setting to a warmer one. > > With the Recirc and warmer setting, the system and compressor would not > > need to work as hard to continue cooling, which I think is better for > > the system in the long run. > > > > I also get slightly better fuel economy when I do this. I note that > > I travel about 360 miles on 12 gallons of 87 octane, which is about > > 30 mpg, with very little of this highway driving. I think I might > > get better mileage during the winter, but I'm not so sure, because > > these New Jersey gas stations use oxygenated fuels starting in November. > > > > Paul |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
<StonyRhoads@lycos.com> wrote in message news:3F4263FA.B88A4F91@lycos.com... > Actually you have it backward. One should run on fresh (outside) > air to pull in outside air and push out the hot air within, when > using Air conditioner. Once the vehicle begins to cool, go to > recirc to re-cool the dehumidified air inside the vehicle. There > is always an infusion of some outside air in any event. In the > defrost mode the air source is from outside. If you vehicle has a > manual recirc/fresh (outside) air controller, the recirc should > only be used for AC, not heating, or your will build up > humidity. Read your owners manual for complete instruction of > the operating of the HVAC system, WBMA Good advice. Mine says to open a window for sec to dump the hot air, and run the A/C in recirc. Even says to run in recirc for fast heating, but switch to fresh if things begin to fog up. 1991 Honda Accord Owners Manual > > > mike hunt > > > > bearman wrote: > > > > I thought we were supposed to run the a/c in recirc (with a window open to > > get rid of the warm air) when first starting it to cool down quicker then > > switch to Fresh. Seems like running in recirc all the time would cause the > > interior air to get pretty stale and maybe even dangerous. > > > > "Paul Stuart" <pstuart03@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:b46b8f39.0308190228.2578785b@posting.google.c om... > > > BigJohnson@mailcity.com wrote in message > > news:<3F412874.34017441@mailcity.com>... > > > > Yes it is. The purpose being to dehumidify the air. > > > > Adjust the temperature setting to suit. > > > > > > Hello, Mike! > > > > > > Thanks for your information. Because I thought the A/C system was > > > inactive before receiving your response, I was hoping that I had found > > > a way to actually conserve the use of the system and compressor > > > during warm days. > > > > > > When I need a quick cool off on hot days, I let the A/C run for a few > > > minutes on Fresh Air mode to cool off the interior, then I press the > > > Recirc button and adjust the temperature setting to a warmer one. > > > With the Recirc and warmer setting, the system and compressor would not > > > need to work as hard to continue cooling, which I think is better for > > > the system in the long run. > > > > > > I also get slightly better fuel economy when I do this. I note that > > > I travel about 360 miles on 12 gallons of 87 octane, which is about > > > 30 mpg, with very little of this highway driving. I think I might > > > get better mileage during the winter, but I'm not so sure, because > > > these New Jersey gas stations use oxygenated fuels starting in November. > > > > > > Paul |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
<StonyRhoads@lycos.com> wrote in message news:3F4263FA.B88A4F91@lycos.com... > Actually you have it backward. One should run on fresh (outside) > air to pull in outside air and push out the hot air within, when > using Air conditioner. Once the vehicle begins to cool, go to > recirc to re-cool the dehumidified air inside the vehicle. There > is always an infusion of some outside air in any event. In the > defrost mode the air source is from outside. If you vehicle has a > manual recirc/fresh (outside) air controller, the recirc should > only be used for AC, not heating, or your will build up > humidity. Read your owners manual for complete instruction of > the operating of the HVAC system, WBMA Good advice. Mine says to open a window for sec to dump the hot air, and run the A/C in recirc. Even says to run in recirc for fast heating, but switch to fresh if things begin to fog up. 1991 Honda Accord Owners Manual > > > mike hunt > > > > bearman wrote: > > > > I thought we were supposed to run the a/c in recirc (with a window open to > > get rid of the warm air) when first starting it to cool down quicker then > > switch to Fresh. Seems like running in recirc all the time would cause the > > interior air to get pretty stale and maybe even dangerous. > > > > "Paul Stuart" <pstuart03@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:b46b8f39.0308190228.2578785b@posting.google.c om... > > > BigJohnson@mailcity.com wrote in message > > news:<3F412874.34017441@mailcity.com>... > > > > Yes it is. The purpose being to dehumidify the air. > > > > Adjust the temperature setting to suit. > > > > > > Hello, Mike! > > > > > > Thanks for your information. Because I thought the A/C system was > > > inactive before receiving your response, I was hoping that I had found > > > a way to actually conserve the use of the system and compressor > > > during warm days. > > > > > > When I need a quick cool off on hot days, I let the A/C run for a few > > > minutes on Fresh Air mode to cool off the interior, then I press the > > > Recirc button and adjust the temperature setting to a warmer one. > > > With the Recirc and warmer setting, the system and compressor would not > > > need to work as hard to continue cooling, which I think is better for > > > the system in the long run. > > > > > > I also get slightly better fuel economy when I do this. I note that > > > I travel about 360 miles on 12 gallons of 87 octane, which is about > > > 30 mpg, with very little of this highway driving. I think I might > > > get better mileage during the winter, but I'm not so sure, because > > > these New Jersey gas stations use oxygenated fuels starting in November. > > > > > > Paul |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
"Larry" <zieglerl@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<ass0b.2415$Gi6.179310767@newssvr13.news.prod igy.com>...
> It actually is the reverse........use the recirc air button once the air is > cold inside the cabin......make the ac work less as it is recirculating > cooler air. Don't use the recirc button until the air is cool.....and open > the window for a few moments to have hot air escape faster Whether you're recirculating air or not, your air conditioning system is still working just as hard. Your air conditioner is either on or off, there's no (or very little) difference in the amount of work required. When you have your internal temperature warm or cold, recirculating or not, you're AC system is working just as hard. The only way to reduce the amount of fuel consumption is to not use AC. If you know how air conditioners work, the COMPRESSOR compresses a gas (R134 or equivalent) within the cooling system. It requires energy to compress the gas, which is supplied by your engine (via a belt/pulley). When this gas is allowed to expand, it gets very cold. This entire cycle is contained within it's own system so that gas isn't lost. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
"Larry" <zieglerl@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<ass0b.2415$Gi6.179310767@newssvr13.news.prod igy.com>...
> It actually is the reverse........use the recirc air button once the air is > cold inside the cabin......make the ac work less as it is recirculating > cooler air. Don't use the recirc button until the air is cool.....and open > the window for a few moments to have hot air escape faster Whether you're recirculating air or not, your air conditioning system is still working just as hard. Your air conditioner is either on or off, there's no (or very little) difference in the amount of work required. When you have your internal temperature warm or cold, recirculating or not, you're AC system is working just as hard. The only way to reduce the amount of fuel consumption is to not use AC. If you know how air conditioners work, the COMPRESSOR compresses a gas (R134 or equivalent) within the cooling system. It requires energy to compress the gas, which is supplied by your engine (via a belt/pulley). When this gas is allowed to expand, it gets very cold. This entire cycle is contained within it's own system so that gas isn't lost. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
In article <Yr2cnWhSMeDilt-iU-KYuQ@comcast.com>,
"bearman" <noyb@home.com> wrote: > I thought we were supposed to run the a/c in recirc (with a window open to > get rid of the warm air) when first starting it to cool down quicker then > switch to Fresh. Nope. Open the windows and set to fresh air. Once the superhot air has left the inside of the car, and the car is at outside temperature, close the windows and set to recirculate. You need to exhaust the superhot interior air before the A/C can really do any good. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
In article <Yr2cnWhSMeDilt-iU-KYuQ@comcast.com>,
"bearman" <noyb@home.com> wrote: > I thought we were supposed to run the a/c in recirc (with a window open to > get rid of the warm air) when first starting it to cool down quicker then > switch to Fresh. Nope. Open the windows and set to fresh air. Once the superhot air has left the inside of the car, and the car is at outside temperature, close the windows and set to recirculate. You need to exhaust the superhot interior air before the A/C can really do any good. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <4031f12e.0308191312.26ed29e6@posting.google.com >, > audi4sale2k@yahoo.com (Mike S) wrote: > >>Whether you're recirculating air or not, your air conditioning system >>is still working just as hard. Your air conditioner is either on or >>off, there's no (or very little) difference in the amount of work >>required. > > Well, there's the difference between the temperature of the expanded > refrigerant as it comes into the compressor, and the temperature of the > compressed refrigerant as it leaves the compressor. That difference is > how hard the compressor works. > > The smaller the difference, the less hard the compressor has to work to > re-compress the refrigerant. > > If you're simply cooling already cool air, on recirculate, then the > difference is minimized and the compressor doesn't work as hard. But if > you're always cooling 90 degree air from the outside, the difference is > greater and the compressor works harder. > > Then there's the "how humid is the outside air" argument. If you're > bringing in a lot of moisture, the evaporator can easily ice up as it > removes that moisture. That will definitely happen much more easily > with fresh air than recirculated air. > > Face it: in your house, you never bring in fresh air via the air > conditioning and heating system, do you? You're always recirculating > the air and re-conditioning it. The only fresh air that comes in, does > so from leaks (windows, etc.) and when you open the door. > > So if you're not worried about it in your house, why worry about it in > your car? The interior of the car is what - 2-3% of the interior volue of your house? Plus you have many materials in the car not usually seen in a house. I don't think this is a very good comparison. There's also a huge difference in how they're expected to operate, e.g., a house may take hours to cool, whereas if the car isn't cold in 5 minutes, the %^&$$%^& a/c is broken! FWIW, everything I've read over the years has recommended opening a window and running on RECIRC when starting up a car with a heated interior, then closing the window and switching to FRESH. With the windows (& moonroof, if present) closed, there isn't much fresh air coming in, just equal to what the cabin vents permit to escape (otherwise the interior would get pressurized and it would be like scuba diving). Finally, as the a/c compressor cycles on & off, it's consuming significant power only when it's running. The fan runs constantly and consumes *much* less power than the compressor. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <4031f12e.0308191312.26ed29e6@posting.google.com >, > audi4sale2k@yahoo.com (Mike S) wrote: > >>Whether you're recirculating air or not, your air conditioning system >>is still working just as hard. Your air conditioner is either on or >>off, there's no (or very little) difference in the amount of work >>required. > > Well, there's the difference between the temperature of the expanded > refrigerant as it comes into the compressor, and the temperature of the > compressed refrigerant as it leaves the compressor. That difference is > how hard the compressor works. > > The smaller the difference, the less hard the compressor has to work to > re-compress the refrigerant. > > If you're simply cooling already cool air, on recirculate, then the > difference is minimized and the compressor doesn't work as hard. But if > you're always cooling 90 degree air from the outside, the difference is > greater and the compressor works harder. > > Then there's the "how humid is the outside air" argument. If you're > bringing in a lot of moisture, the evaporator can easily ice up as it > removes that moisture. That will definitely happen much more easily > with fresh air than recirculated air. > > Face it: in your house, you never bring in fresh air via the air > conditioning and heating system, do you? You're always recirculating > the air and re-conditioning it. The only fresh air that comes in, does > so from leaks (windows, etc.) and when you open the door. > > So if you're not worried about it in your house, why worry about it in > your car? The interior of the car is what - 2-3% of the interior volue of your house? Plus you have many materials in the car not usually seen in a house. I don't think this is a very good comparison. There's also a huge difference in how they're expected to operate, e.g., a house may take hours to cool, whereas if the car isn't cold in 5 minutes, the %^&$$%^& a/c is broken! FWIW, everything I've read over the years has recommended opening a window and running on RECIRC when starting up a car with a heated interior, then closing the window and switching to FRESH. With the windows (& moonroof, if present) closed, there isn't much fresh air coming in, just equal to what the cabin vents permit to escape (otherwise the interior would get pressurized and it would be like scuba diving). Finally, as the a/c compressor cycles on & off, it's consuming significant power only when it's running. The fan runs constantly and consumes *much* less power than the compressor. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
In article <4NC0b.126851$_R5.48164664@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net >,
Gus <GusPod@XXX.optonline.net> wrote: > The interior of the car is what - 2-3% of the interior volue of your > house? Plus you have many materials in the car not usually seen in a > house. There's *always* outside air being brought in, even in recirculate. And as for materials in the car, everything in a car is seen in a house. The chemical makeup is no different--even the exhaust. Speaking of, recirculate minimizes the exhaust you bring through the car. That's why Japanese cars have the separate recirc button--Japanese law requires it because of the exhaust and pollution issue. American cars typically don't have such a button, because nobody ever made them have one. > FWIW, everything I've read over the years has recommended opening a > window and running on RECIRC when starting up a car with a heated > interior, then closing the window and switching to FRESH. Have you ever read your owner's manual? What *have* you read that recommends the above? It makes no sense, actually, to start out on recirculate. You want to cool the car down quickly, which means drawing in outside air--which is much cooler and therefore easier for the A/C to cool even further--and exhausting the very hot trapped air. > With the > windows (& moonroof, if present) closed, there isn't much fresh air > coming in, just equal to what the cabin vents permit to escape Right, which is why you open the windows to allow the extra hot trapped air to be blown out by outside 90 degree air being drawn in and much more efficiently cooled by the A/C. The net effect is that the interior cools down MUCH more quickly than if you asked the A/C to start cooling the 140 degree interior air. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
In article <4NC0b.126851$_R5.48164664@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net >,
Gus <GusPod@XXX.optonline.net> wrote: > The interior of the car is what - 2-3% of the interior volue of your > house? Plus you have many materials in the car not usually seen in a > house. There's *always* outside air being brought in, even in recirculate. And as for materials in the car, everything in a car is seen in a house. The chemical makeup is no different--even the exhaust. Speaking of, recirculate minimizes the exhaust you bring through the car. That's why Japanese cars have the separate recirc button--Japanese law requires it because of the exhaust and pollution issue. American cars typically don't have such a button, because nobody ever made them have one. > FWIW, everything I've read over the years has recommended opening a > window and running on RECIRC when starting up a car with a heated > interior, then closing the window and switching to FRESH. Have you ever read your owner's manual? What *have* you read that recommends the above? It makes no sense, actually, to start out on recirculate. You want to cool the car down quickly, which means drawing in outside air--which is much cooler and therefore easier for the A/C to cool even further--and exhausting the very hot trapped air. > With the > windows (& moonroof, if present) closed, there isn't much fresh air > coming in, just equal to what the cabin vents permit to escape Right, which is why you open the windows to allow the extra hot trapped air to be blown out by outside 90 degree air being drawn in and much more efficiently cooled by the A/C. The net effect is that the interior cools down MUCH more quickly than if you asked the A/C to start cooling the 140 degree interior air. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
In article <XZG0b.20321$Bo6.5857@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
riccardo@smile.org (Ric) wrote: > I've always wondered, does the warm/cold dial have any effect on the > compressor, or does it merely introduce heated air to regulate the > temperature? It controls a blend door, which introduces more or less heated air as required. The A/C always runs the same. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
In article <XZG0b.20321$Bo6.5857@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
riccardo@smile.org (Ric) wrote: > I've always wondered, does the warm/cold dial have any effect on the > compressor, or does it merely introduce heated air to regulate the > temperature? It controls a blend door, which introduces more or less heated air as required. The A/C always runs the same. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
On 19 Aug 2003 14:12:56 -0700, audi4sale2k@yahoo.com (Mike S) wrote:
>"Larry" <zieglerl@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<ass0b.2415$Gi6.179310767@newssvr13.news.prod igy.com>... >> It actually is the reverse........use the recirc air button once the air is >> cold inside the cabin......make the ac work less as it is recirculating >> cooler air. Don't use the recirc button until the air is cool.....and open >> the window for a few moments to have hot air escape faster > >Whether you're recirculating air or not, your air conditioning system >is still working just as hard. Your air conditioner is either on or >off, there's no (or very little) difference in the amount of work >required. When you have your internal temperature warm or cold, >recirculating or not, you're AC system is working just as hard. The >only way to reduce the amount of fuel consumption is to not use AC. There's a thermoswitch in contact with the evaporator fins - just like a home A/C window unit. When the temp at that switch, which depends on the temp of the air entering and the temp of the fins themselves, gets below a certain value, the compressor is disengaged. IOW the compressor cycles on and off according to the temp of the evaporator fins and air just as it's entering the evaporator. Climate control systems are a little more complicated since they also take account of cabin air temp/humidity and vary the speed of the ventilation fan and the blend of air. >If you know how air conditioners work, the COMPRESSOR compresses a gas >(R134 or equivalent) within the cooling system. It requires energy to >compress the gas, which is supplied by your engine (via a >belt/pulley). When this gas is allowed to expand, it gets very cold. >This entire cycle is contained within it's own system so that gas >isn't lost. There's a clutch on the drive belt pulley which is engaged when necessary to turn the compressor on and provide more cooling as needed. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
On 19 Aug 2003 14:12:56 -0700, audi4sale2k@yahoo.com (Mike S) wrote:
>"Larry" <zieglerl@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<ass0b.2415$Gi6.179310767@newssvr13.news.prod igy.com>... >> It actually is the reverse........use the recirc air button once the air is >> cold inside the cabin......make the ac work less as it is recirculating >> cooler air. Don't use the recirc button until the air is cool.....and open >> the window for a few moments to have hot air escape faster > >Whether you're recirculating air or not, your air conditioning system >is still working just as hard. Your air conditioner is either on or >off, there's no (or very little) difference in the amount of work >required. When you have your internal temperature warm or cold, >recirculating or not, you're AC system is working just as hard. The >only way to reduce the amount of fuel consumption is to not use AC. There's a thermoswitch in contact with the evaporator fins - just like a home A/C window unit. When the temp at that switch, which depends on the temp of the air entering and the temp of the fins themselves, gets below a certain value, the compressor is disengaged. IOW the compressor cycles on and off according to the temp of the evaporator fins and air just as it's entering the evaporator. Climate control systems are a little more complicated since they also take account of cabin air temp/humidity and vary the speed of the ventilation fan and the blend of air. >If you know how air conditioners work, the COMPRESSOR compresses a gas >(R134 or equivalent) within the cooling system. It requires energy to >compress the gas, which is supplied by your engine (via a >belt/pulley). When this gas is allowed to expand, it gets very cold. >This entire cycle is contained within it's own system so that gas >isn't lost. There's a clutch on the drive belt pulley which is engaged when necessary to turn the compressor on and provide more cooling as needed. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <XZG0b.20321$Bo6.5857@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>, > riccardo@smile.org (Ric) wrote: > >>I've always wondered, does the warm/cold dial have any effect on the >>compressor, or does it merely introduce heated air to regulate the >>temperature? > > It controls a blend door, which introduces more or less heated air as > required. The A/C always runs the same. Are we discussing straight A/C or climate control? |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <XZG0b.20321$Bo6.5857@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>, > riccardo@smile.org (Ric) wrote: > >>I've always wondered, does the warm/cold dial have any effect on the >>compressor, or does it merely introduce heated air to regulate the >>temperature? > > It controls a blend door, which introduces more or less heated air as > required. The A/C always runs the same. Are we discussing straight A/C or climate control? |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
Elmo Shag Pnasty wrote:
> In article <4NC0b.126851$_R5.48164664@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net >, > Gus <GusPod@XXX.optonline.net> wrote: > >>The interior of the car is what - 2-3% of the interior volue of your >>house? Plus you have many materials in the car not usually seen in a >>house. > > There's *always* outside air being brought in, even in recirculate. And > as for materials in the car, everything in a car is seen in a house. > The chemical makeup is no different--even the exhaust. If you have auto exhaust gases in your house, why aren't you dead? ;) > Speaking of, recirculate minimizes the exhaust you bring through the > car. That's why Japanese cars have the separate recirc button--Japanese > law requires it because of the exhaust and pollution issue. American > cars typically don't have such a button, because nobody ever made them > have one. Nonsense! The fresh air intakes on my 2003 Accord and every other car I've driven in the past 25 years are located at the base of the windshield. If you're sucking in exhaust or other pollutants, they're someone else's, not yours, so you can zoom along the interstate in Fresh Air mode and not draw in your own exhaust. I have routinely used recirc mode when going through tunnels, e.g., Holland & Lincoln, for years. Avoids sucking in the exhaust & other pollutants in the tunnels. Back to Fresh Air mode when I pop out the other side, of course. Japanese law may require a recirc button, but other cars I've driven, including US makes, have also had them. If you're claiming only Japanese cars have a recirc mode, better document it. >>FWIW, everything I've read over the years has recommended opening a >>window and running on RECIRC when starting up a car with a heated >>interior, then closing the window and switching to FRESH. > > Have you ever read your owner's manual? What *have* you read that > recommends the above? I refer you to pg. 113 in the 2003 Accord owner's manual, which describes what happens when you push the Max A/C button: "The system automatically turns on the A/C and switches to Recirculation mode." Hmmm, I guess Honda screwed up big time here. You might want to offer your services to Honda design so they can get it right the next time. Actually, Honda seems to contradict itself on pg. 116, where it recommends initially cooling a very hot car with the windows open & fresh air mode. It further recommends recirc when the outside air is humid and fresh air when the outside air is dry. I refer you to pg. 115 which states: "It is better to leave the system in Fresh Air mode under almost all conditions. ... Switch to Recirculation mode you are driving smoky or dusty conditions, then switch back to Fresh Air when the condition clears." There's no way that can be interpreted as recommending recirc mode most of the time, as you stated in your original post. Still, the Max A/C mode sets the A/C to recirc mode, so... > It makes no sense, actually, to start out on > recirculate. You want to cool the car down quickly, which means drawing > in outside air--which is much cooler and therefore easier for the A/C to > cool even further--and exhausting the very hot trapped air. Did you miss or are you ignoring the part about opening windows? They're a major source of fresh air. >>With the >>windows (& moonroof, if present) closed, there isn't much fresh air >>coming in, just equal to what the cabin vents permit to escape > > Right, which is why you open the windows to allow the extra hot trapped > air to be blown out by outside 90 degree air being drawn in and much > more efficiently cooled by the A/C. The net effect is that the interior > cools down MUCH more quickly than if you asked the A/C to start cooling > the 140 degree interior air. I was talking about *after* the initial cool down period, when you recommend recirc and Honda recommends fresh air. My point is that there's not a whole lot of fresh air coming in in fresh air mode with all windows closed, which means a relatively small incremental load on the A/C when compared to recirc mode. It's not like having the windows open. Anyway, re: the OP's question, pg. 117 describes how the A/C is switched on when defrost mode is selected, with a note that the indicator above the A/C button stays off. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer, I'm discussing the A/C system which is available on all 2003 Accord models except EX w/leather and EX w/V6. They have climate control which operates differently. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
Elmo Shag Pnasty wrote:
> In article <4NC0b.126851$_R5.48164664@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net >, > Gus <GusPod@XXX.optonline.net> wrote: > >>The interior of the car is what - 2-3% of the interior volue of your >>house? Plus you have many materials in the car not usually seen in a >>house. > > There's *always* outside air being brought in, even in recirculate. And > as for materials in the car, everything in a car is seen in a house. > The chemical makeup is no different--even the exhaust. If you have auto exhaust gases in your house, why aren't you dead? ;) > Speaking of, recirculate minimizes the exhaust you bring through the > car. That's why Japanese cars have the separate recirc button--Japanese > law requires it because of the exhaust and pollution issue. American > cars typically don't have such a button, because nobody ever made them > have one. Nonsense! The fresh air intakes on my 2003 Accord and every other car I've driven in the past 25 years are located at the base of the windshield. If you're sucking in exhaust or other pollutants, they're someone else's, not yours, so you can zoom along the interstate in Fresh Air mode and not draw in your own exhaust. I have routinely used recirc mode when going through tunnels, e.g., Holland & Lincoln, for years. Avoids sucking in the exhaust & other pollutants in the tunnels. Back to Fresh Air mode when I pop out the other side, of course. Japanese law may require a recirc button, but other cars I've driven, including US makes, have also had them. If you're claiming only Japanese cars have a recirc mode, better document it. >>FWIW, everything I've read over the years has recommended opening a >>window and running on RECIRC when starting up a car with a heated >>interior, then closing the window and switching to FRESH. > > Have you ever read your owner's manual? What *have* you read that > recommends the above? I refer you to pg. 113 in the 2003 Accord owner's manual, which describes what happens when you push the Max A/C button: "The system automatically turns on the A/C and switches to Recirculation mode." Hmmm, I guess Honda screwed up big time here. You might want to offer your services to Honda design so they can get it right the next time. Actually, Honda seems to contradict itself on pg. 116, where it recommends initially cooling a very hot car with the windows open & fresh air mode. It further recommends recirc when the outside air is humid and fresh air when the outside air is dry. I refer you to pg. 115 which states: "It is better to leave the system in Fresh Air mode under almost all conditions. ... Switch to Recirculation mode you are driving smoky or dusty conditions, then switch back to Fresh Air when the condition clears." There's no way that can be interpreted as recommending recirc mode most of the time, as you stated in your original post. Still, the Max A/C mode sets the A/C to recirc mode, so... > It makes no sense, actually, to start out on > recirculate. You want to cool the car down quickly, which means drawing > in outside air--which is much cooler and therefore easier for the A/C to > cool even further--and exhausting the very hot trapped air. Did you miss or are you ignoring the part about opening windows? They're a major source of fresh air. >>With the >>windows (& moonroof, if present) closed, there isn't much fresh air >>coming in, just equal to what the cabin vents permit to escape > > Right, which is why you open the windows to allow the extra hot trapped > air to be blown out by outside 90 degree air being drawn in and much > more efficiently cooled by the A/C. The net effect is that the interior > cools down MUCH more quickly than if you asked the A/C to start cooling > the 140 degree interior air. I was talking about *after* the initial cool down period, when you recommend recirc and Honda recommends fresh air. My point is that there's not a whole lot of fresh air coming in in fresh air mode with all windows closed, which means a relatively small incremental load on the A/C when compared to recirc mode. It's not like having the windows open. Anyway, re: the OP's question, pg. 117 describes how the A/C is switched on when defrost mode is selected, with a note that the indicator above the A/C button stays off. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer, I'm discussing the A/C system which is available on all 2003 Accord models except EX w/leather and EX w/V6. They have climate control which operates differently. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
In article <rMK0b.128907$_R5.49685693@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net >,
Gus <GusPod@XXX.optonline.net> wrote: > > There's *always* outside air being brought in, even in recirculate. And > > as for materials in the car, everything in a car is seen in a house. > > The chemical makeup is no different--even the exhaust. > > If you have auto exhaust gases in your house, why aren't you dead? ;) Because the concentration isn't high enough. Nonetheless, city and suburb dwellers who have cars and trucks driving around their houses have exhaust pollution inside their houses. > > Speaking of, recirculate minimizes the exhaust you bring through the > > car. That's why Japanese cars have the separate recirc button--Japanese > > law requires it because of the exhaust and pollution issue. American > > cars typically don't have such a button, because nobody ever made them > > have one. > > Nonsense! The fresh air intakes on my 2003 Accord and every other car > I've driven in the past 25 years are located at the base of the > windshield. If you're sucking in exhaust or other pollutants, they're > someone else's, not yours, so you can zoom along the interstate in Fresh > Air mode and not draw in your own exhaust. That wasn't what I was talking about. In Japan, where conditions are very crowded, it's actually law that the cars be built with a separate recirculate button--for when you're following a stinky car and don't want to smell the gas. Check it out. Really. It's law over there. > Japanese law may require a recirc button, but other cars I've driven, > including US makes, have also had them. I've seen one or two, but usually they tie the recirculate directly to the A/C and call it "Max AC" or something similar. American designed cars usually don't have the recirc button as a standalone piece, giving the driver the ability simply to shut out the outside world for a bit. Japanese designed cars ALL have that, because in Japan it's required by law. The American mindset with regard to recirculate is goofy, in my opinion. I want independent choice at any time for where the air is coming from, where it's going to, and how much--if any--dehumidifying is happening. Japanese cars ALL give such independent control. Ford Taurus? Mainstream American car, but no such luck. > I refer you to pg. 113 in the 2003 Accord owner's manual, which > describes what happens when you push the Max A/C button: > > "The system automatically turns on the A/C and switches to Recirculation > mode." yeah, in 2003 Honda finally bows to the American car design of calling something "Max AC". But all it does is turn the air on and activate recirculate. Shoot, American cars have had max AC for years and years. But with Japanese cars, the user can hit that recirculate button any time he wants for any reason. With American cars, the only time air is recirculated is with the max AC function engaged. Sorry, too limiting. I want total control of the system, something the American cars don't offer. > Actually, Honda seems to contradict itself on pg. 116, where it > recommends initially cooling a very hot car with the windows open & > fresh air mode. It further recommends recirc when the outside air is > humid and fresh air when the outside air is dry. I refer you to pg. 115 > which states: > > "It is better to leave the system in Fresh Air mode under almost all > conditions. ... Switch to Recirculation mode you are driving smoky or > dusty conditions, then switch back to Fresh Air when the condition clears." Ooooo, isn't that amazing. Honda says to hit that INDEPENDENT recirc button when it's humid outside. Why? Because the A/C is really a dehumidfier first, using the coolant to extract moisture from the air. If the outside air is horribly humid, your A/C has to work harder and won't be as effective. So, hit recirc. Or when there's pollution and you don't want to smell it--hit the INDEPENDENT recirc button. The one that American cars by and large don't have. > > It makes no sense, actually, to start out on > > recirculate. You want to cool the car down quickly, which means drawing > > in outside air--which is much cooler and therefore easier for the A/C to > > cool even further--and exhausting the very hot trapped air. > > Did you miss or are you ignoring the part about opening windows? They're > a major source of fresh air. Right. And you use the blower fan to force outside (cooler) air in, which forces the inside (much hotter) air out the open windows. So, start out in fresh air mode. (Why you'd hit recirculate when the goal is to blow the inside air out, I don't know. Recirculate simply blows the horribly hot inside air around inside the cabin...) Then, when you've gotten the inside of the car in equilibrium with the outside environment, hit that recirc button. Your A/C won't have to work so hard, because it will be working with less humid and cooler air. You'll also be able to turn the fan down, thanks to the cooler and drier air, which means less noise. > I was talking about *after* the initial cool down period, when you > recommend recirc and Honda recommends fresh air. Except when Honda doesn't recommend fresh air, as you quoted above. And in fact, since a little outside air is always getting in anyway, it's' no big deal simply to keep it in recirculate. > My point is that > there's not a whole lot of fresh air coming in in fresh air mode with > all windows closed, which means a relatively small incremental load on > the A/C when compared to recirc mode. Unless it's very humid, in which case you want to use recirculate--as Honda says--to lessen the load on the dehumidifying A/C system. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
In article <rMK0b.128907$_R5.49685693@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net >,
Gus <GusPod@XXX.optonline.net> wrote: > > There's *always* outside air being brought in, even in recirculate. And > > as for materials in the car, everything in a car is seen in a house. > > The chemical makeup is no different--even the exhaust. > > If you have auto exhaust gases in your house, why aren't you dead? ;) Because the concentration isn't high enough. Nonetheless, city and suburb dwellers who have cars and trucks driving around their houses have exhaust pollution inside their houses. > > Speaking of, recirculate minimizes the exhaust you bring through the > > car. That's why Japanese cars have the separate recirc button--Japanese > > law requires it because of the exhaust and pollution issue. American > > cars typically don't have such a button, because nobody ever made them > > have one. > > Nonsense! The fresh air intakes on my 2003 Accord and every other car > I've driven in the past 25 years are located at the base of the > windshield. If you're sucking in exhaust or other pollutants, they're > someone else's, not yours, so you can zoom along the interstate in Fresh > Air mode and not draw in your own exhaust. That wasn't what I was talking about. In Japan, where conditions are very crowded, it's actually law that the cars be built with a separate recirculate button--for when you're following a stinky car and don't want to smell the gas. Check it out. Really. It's law over there. > Japanese law may require a recirc button, but other cars I've driven, > including US makes, have also had them. I've seen one or two, but usually they tie the recirculate directly to the A/C and call it "Max AC" or something similar. American designed cars usually don't have the recirc button as a standalone piece, giving the driver the ability simply to shut out the outside world for a bit. Japanese designed cars ALL have that, because in Japan it's required by law. The American mindset with regard to recirculate is goofy, in my opinion. I want independent choice at any time for where the air is coming from, where it's going to, and how much--if any--dehumidifying is happening. Japanese cars ALL give such independent control. Ford Taurus? Mainstream American car, but no such luck. > I refer you to pg. 113 in the 2003 Accord owner's manual, which > describes what happens when you push the Max A/C button: > > "The system automatically turns on the A/C and switches to Recirculation > mode." yeah, in 2003 Honda finally bows to the American car design of calling something "Max AC". But all it does is turn the air on and activate recirculate. Shoot, American cars have had max AC for years and years. But with Japanese cars, the user can hit that recirculate button any time he wants for any reason. With American cars, the only time air is recirculated is with the max AC function engaged. Sorry, too limiting. I want total control of the system, something the American cars don't offer. > Actually, Honda seems to contradict itself on pg. 116, where it > recommends initially cooling a very hot car with the windows open & > fresh air mode. It further recommends recirc when the outside air is > humid and fresh air when the outside air is dry. I refer you to pg. 115 > which states: > > "It is better to leave the system in Fresh Air mode under almost all > conditions. ... Switch to Recirculation mode you are driving smoky or > dusty conditions, then switch back to Fresh Air when the condition clears." Ooooo, isn't that amazing. Honda says to hit that INDEPENDENT recirc button when it's humid outside. Why? Because the A/C is really a dehumidfier first, using the coolant to extract moisture from the air. If the outside air is horribly humid, your A/C has to work harder and won't be as effective. So, hit recirc. Or when there's pollution and you don't want to smell it--hit the INDEPENDENT recirc button. The one that American cars by and large don't have. > > It makes no sense, actually, to start out on > > recirculate. You want to cool the car down quickly, which means drawing > > in outside air--which is much cooler and therefore easier for the A/C to > > cool even further--and exhausting the very hot trapped air. > > Did you miss or are you ignoring the part about opening windows? They're > a major source of fresh air. Right. And you use the blower fan to force outside (cooler) air in, which forces the inside (much hotter) air out the open windows. So, start out in fresh air mode. (Why you'd hit recirculate when the goal is to blow the inside air out, I don't know. Recirculate simply blows the horribly hot inside air around inside the cabin...) Then, when you've gotten the inside of the car in equilibrium with the outside environment, hit that recirc button. Your A/C won't have to work so hard, because it will be working with less humid and cooler air. You'll also be able to turn the fan down, thanks to the cooler and drier air, which means less noise. > I was talking about *after* the initial cool down period, when you > recommend recirc and Honda recommends fresh air. Except when Honda doesn't recommend fresh air, as you quoted above. And in fact, since a little outside air is always getting in anyway, it's' no big deal simply to keep it in recirculate. > My point is that > there's not a whole lot of fresh air coming in in fresh air mode with > all windows closed, which means a relatively small incremental load on > the A/C when compared to recirc mode. Unless it's very humid, in which case you want to use recirculate--as Honda says--to lessen the load on the dehumidifying A/C system. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
That's my usual approach. At the start I'm much more interested in
getting the superheated air out of a hot car than worrying about cooling. I have the automatic climate control on my 03 Accord and it always wants to go straight to recirculate when the car is hot. I always over-ride that. Frankly, I find the fresh air works better most of the time. The exception is trying to warm up a car when it's 20 below out. You do have to switch to fresh air at some point to avoid the windows fogging. When it's hot, I really don't notice a big improvement with recirculate, and seldom use it. BTW, I like the autoclimate control precisely because it allows you to pick and choose which aspects are automatic. I can over-ride the fresh air, or which vents are chosen, fan speed, AC etc and the rest stays in the auto mode (ie, manages to the temp setting). On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:51:44 GMT, Gus <GusPod@XXX.optonline.net> wrote: >Stephen Bigelow wrote: >> <StonyRhoads@lycos.com> wrote in message news:3F4263FA.B88A4F91@lycos.com... >> >>>Actually you have it backward. One should run on fresh (outside) >>>air to pull in outside air and push out the hot air within, when >>>using Air conditioner. Once the vehicle begins to cool, go to >>>recirc to re-cool the dehumidified air inside the vehicle. There >>>is always an infusion of some outside air in any event. In the >>>defrost mode the air source is from outside. If you vehicle has a >>>manual recirc/fresh (outside) air controller, the recirc should >>>only be used for AC, not heating, or your will build up >>>humidity. Read your owners manual for complete instruction of >>>the operating of the HVAC system, WBMA >> >> Good advice. >> Mine says to open a window for sec to dump the hot air, and run the A/C in >> recirc. >> Even says to run in recirc for fast heating, but switch to fresh if things >> begin to fog up. >> >> 1991 Honda Accord Owners Manual > >Mr. Shagnasty please take note. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
That's my usual approach. At the start I'm much more interested in
getting the superheated air out of a hot car than worrying about cooling. I have the automatic climate control on my 03 Accord and it always wants to go straight to recirculate when the car is hot. I always over-ride that. Frankly, I find the fresh air works better most of the time. The exception is trying to warm up a car when it's 20 below out. You do have to switch to fresh air at some point to avoid the windows fogging. When it's hot, I really don't notice a big improvement with recirculate, and seldom use it. BTW, I like the autoclimate control precisely because it allows you to pick and choose which aspects are automatic. I can over-ride the fresh air, or which vents are chosen, fan speed, AC etc and the rest stays in the auto mode (ie, manages to the temp setting). On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:51:44 GMT, Gus <GusPod@XXX.optonline.net> wrote: >Stephen Bigelow wrote: >> <StonyRhoads@lycos.com> wrote in message news:3F4263FA.B88A4F91@lycos.com... >> >>>Actually you have it backward. One should run on fresh (outside) >>>air to pull in outside air and push out the hot air within, when >>>using Air conditioner. Once the vehicle begins to cool, go to >>>recirc to re-cool the dehumidified air inside the vehicle. There >>>is always an infusion of some outside air in any event. In the >>>defrost mode the air source is from outside. If you vehicle has a >>>manual recirc/fresh (outside) air controller, the recirc should >>>only be used for AC, not heating, or your will build up >>>humidity. Read your owners manual for complete instruction of >>>the operating of the HVAC system, WBMA >> >> Good advice. >> Mine says to open a window for sec to dump the hot air, and run the A/C in >> recirc. >> Even says to run in recirc for fast heating, but switch to fresh if things >> begin to fog up. >> >> 1991 Honda Accord Owners Manual > >Mr. Shagnasty please take note. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
I haven't owned a Japanese vehicle since my 1997 Lexus but it and
my two previous Lexus' did not have a manual recirc, they ALL had automatic recirc as part of the system, as do most American cars. Only the low end American cars like the Escort have the less expensive manual recirc. Even on recirc some air is drawn from outside and exhausted, in any event mike hunt "Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote: > > In article <rMK0b.128907$_R5.49685693@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net >, > Gus <GusPod@XXX.optonline.net> wrote: > > > > There's *always* outside air being brought in, even in recirculate. And > > > as for materials in the car, everything in a car is seen in a house. > > > The chemical makeup is no different--even the exhaust. > > > > If you have auto exhaust gases in your house, why aren't you dead? ;) > > Because the concentration isn't high enough. Nonetheless, city and > suburb dwellers who have cars and trucks driving around their houses > have exhaust pollution inside their houses. > > > > Speaking of, recirculate minimizes the exhaust you bring through the > > > car. That's why Japanese cars have the separate recirc button--Japanese > > > law requires it because of the exhaust and pollution issue. American > > > cars typically don't have such a button, because nobody ever made them > > > have one. > > > > Nonsense! The fresh air intakes on my 2003 Accord and every other car > > I've driven in the past 25 years are located at the base of the > > windshield. If you're sucking in exhaust or other pollutants, they're > > someone else's, not yours, so you can zoom along the interstate in Fresh > > Air mode and not draw in your own exhaust. > > That wasn't what I was talking about. In Japan, where conditions are > very crowded, it's actually law that the cars be built with a separate > recirculate button--for when you're following a stinky car and don't > want to smell the gas. Check it out. Really. It's law over there. > > > Japanese law may require a recirc button, but other cars I've driven, > > including US makes, have also had them. > > I've seen one or two, but usually they tie the recirculate directly to > the A/C and call it "Max AC" or something similar. American designed > cars usually don't have the recirc button as a standalone piece, giving > the driver the ability simply to shut out the outside world for a bit. > Japanese designed cars ALL have that, because in Japan it's required by > law. > > The American mindset with regard to recirculate is goofy, in my opinion. > I want independent choice at any time for where the air is coming from, > where it's going to, and how much--if any--dehumidifying is happening. > Japanese cars ALL give such independent control. Ford Taurus? > Mainstream American car, but no such luck. > > > I refer you to pg. 113 in the 2003 Accord owner's manual, which > > describes what happens when you push the Max A/C button: > > > > "The system automatically turns on the A/C and switches to Recirculation > > mode." > > yeah, in 2003 Honda finally bows to the American car design of calling > something "Max AC". But all it does is turn the air on and activate > recirculate. Shoot, American cars have had max AC for years and years. > But with Japanese cars, the user can hit that recirculate button any > time he wants for any reason. With American cars, the only time air is > recirculated is with the max AC function engaged. Sorry, too limiting. > I want total control of the system, something the American cars don't > offer. > > > Actually, Honda seems to contradict itself on pg. 116, where it > > recommends initially cooling a very hot car with the windows open & > > fresh air mode. It further recommends recirc when the outside air is > > humid and fresh air when the outside air is dry. I refer you to pg. 115 > > which states: > > > > "It is better to leave the system in Fresh Air mode under almost all > > conditions. ... Switch to Recirculation mode you are driving smoky or > > dusty conditions, then switch back to Fresh Air when the condition clears." > > Ooooo, isn't that amazing. Honda says to hit that INDEPENDENT recirc > button when it's humid outside. Why? Because the A/C is really a > dehumidfier first, using the coolant to extract moisture from the air. > If the outside air is horribly humid, your A/C has to work harder and > won't be as effective. So, hit recirc. > > Or when there's pollution and you don't want to smell it--hit the > INDEPENDENT recirc button. The one that American cars by and large > don't have. > > > > It makes no sense, actually, to start out on > > > recirculate. You want to cool the car down quickly, which means drawing > > > in outside air--which is much cooler and therefore easier for the A/C to > > > cool even further--and exhausting the very hot trapped air. > > > > Did you miss or are you ignoring the part about opening windows? They're > > a major source of fresh air. > > Right. And you use the blower fan to force outside (cooler) air in, > which forces the inside (much hotter) air out the open windows. So, > start out in fresh air mode. (Why you'd hit recirculate when the goal > is to blow the inside air out, I don't know. Recirculate simply blows > the horribly hot inside air around inside the cabin...) > > Then, when you've gotten the inside of the car in equilibrium with the > outside environment, hit that recirc button. Your A/C won't have to > work so hard, because it will be working with less humid and cooler air. > You'll also be able to turn the fan down, thanks to the cooler and drier > air, which means less noise. > > > I was talking about *after* the initial cool down period, when you > > recommend recirc and Honda recommends fresh air. > > Except when Honda doesn't recommend fresh air, as you quoted above. > > And in fact, since a little outside air is always getting in anyway, > it's' no big deal simply to keep it in recirculate. > > > My point is that > > there's not a whole lot of fresh air coming in in fresh air mode with > > all windows closed, which means a relatively small incremental load on > > the A/C when compared to recirc mode. > > Unless it's very humid, in which case you want to use recirculate--as > Honda says--to lessen the load on the dehumidifying A/C system. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
I haven't owned a Japanese vehicle since my 1997 Lexus but it and
my two previous Lexus' did not have a manual recirc, they ALL had automatic recirc as part of the system, as do most American cars. Only the low end American cars like the Escort have the less expensive manual recirc. Even on recirc some air is drawn from outside and exhausted, in any event mike hunt "Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote: > > In article <rMK0b.128907$_R5.49685693@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net >, > Gus <GusPod@XXX.optonline.net> wrote: > > > > There's *always* outside air being brought in, even in recirculate. And > > > as for materials in the car, everything in a car is seen in a house. > > > The chemical makeup is no different--even the exhaust. > > > > If you have auto exhaust gases in your house, why aren't you dead? ;) > > Because the concentration isn't high enough. Nonetheless, city and > suburb dwellers who have cars and trucks driving around their houses > have exhaust pollution inside their houses. > > > > Speaking of, recirculate minimizes the exhaust you bring through the > > > car. That's why Japanese cars have the separate recirc button--Japanese > > > law requires it because of the exhaust and pollution issue. American > > > cars typically don't have such a button, because nobody ever made them > > > have one. > > > > Nonsense! The fresh air intakes on my 2003 Accord and every other car > > I've driven in the past 25 years are located at the base of the > > windshield. If you're sucking in exhaust or other pollutants, they're > > someone else's, not yours, so you can zoom along the interstate in Fresh > > Air mode and not draw in your own exhaust. > > That wasn't what I was talking about. In Japan, where conditions are > very crowded, it's actually law that the cars be built with a separate > recirculate button--for when you're following a stinky car and don't > want to smell the gas. Check it out. Really. It's law over there. > > > Japanese law may require a recirc button, but other cars I've driven, > > including US makes, have also had them. > > I've seen one or two, but usually they tie the recirculate directly to > the A/C and call it "Max AC" or something similar. American designed > cars usually don't have the recirc button as a standalone piece, giving > the driver the ability simply to shut out the outside world for a bit. > Japanese designed cars ALL have that, because in Japan it's required by > law. > > The American mindset with regard to recirculate is goofy, in my opinion. > I want independent choice at any time for where the air is coming from, > where it's going to, and how much--if any--dehumidifying is happening. > Japanese cars ALL give such independent control. Ford Taurus? > Mainstream American car, but no such luck. > > > I refer you to pg. 113 in the 2003 Accord owner's manual, which > > describes what happens when you push the Max A/C button: > > > > "The system automatically turns on the A/C and switches to Recirculation > > mode." > > yeah, in 2003 Honda finally bows to the American car design of calling > something "Max AC". But all it does is turn the air on and activate > recirculate. Shoot, American cars have had max AC for years and years. > But with Japanese cars, the user can hit that recirculate button any > time he wants for any reason. With American cars, the only time air is > recirculated is with the max AC function engaged. Sorry, too limiting. > I want total control of the system, something the American cars don't > offer. > > > Actually, Honda seems to contradict itself on pg. 116, where it > > recommends initially cooling a very hot car with the windows open & > > fresh air mode. It further recommends recirc when the outside air is > > humid and fresh air when the outside air is dry. I refer you to pg. 115 > > which states: > > > > "It is better to leave the system in Fresh Air mode under almost all > > conditions. ... Switch to Recirculation mode you are driving smoky or > > dusty conditions, then switch back to Fresh Air when the condition clears." > > Ooooo, isn't that amazing. Honda says to hit that INDEPENDENT recirc > button when it's humid outside. Why? Because the A/C is really a > dehumidfier first, using the coolant to extract moisture from the air. > If the outside air is horribly humid, your A/C has to work harder and > won't be as effective. So, hit recirc. > > Or when there's pollution and you don't want to smell it--hit the > INDEPENDENT recirc button. The one that American cars by and large > don't have. > > > > It makes no sense, actually, to start out on > > > recirculate. You want to cool the car down quickly, which means drawing > > > in outside air--which is much cooler and therefore easier for the A/C to > > > cool even further--and exhausting the very hot trapped air. > > > > Did you miss or are you ignoring the part about opening windows? They're > > a major source of fresh air. > > Right. And you use the blower fan to force outside (cooler) air in, > which forces the inside (much hotter) air out the open windows. So, > start out in fresh air mode. (Why you'd hit recirculate when the goal > is to blow the inside air out, I don't know. Recirculate simply blows > the horribly hot inside air around inside the cabin...) > > Then, when you've gotten the inside of the car in equilibrium with the > outside environment, hit that recirc button. Your A/C won't have to > work so hard, because it will be working with less humid and cooler air. > You'll also be able to turn the fan down, thanks to the cooler and drier > air, which means less noise. > > > I was talking about *after* the initial cool down period, when you > > recommend recirc and Honda recommends fresh air. > > Except when Honda doesn't recommend fresh air, as you quoted above. > > And in fact, since a little outside air is always getting in anyway, > it's' no big deal simply to keep it in recirculate. > > > My point is that > > there's not a whole lot of fresh air coming in in fresh air mode with > > all windows closed, which means a relatively small incremental load on > > the A/C when compared to recirc mode. > > Unless it's very humid, in which case you want to use recirculate--as > Honda says--to lessen the load on the dehumidifying A/C system. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message news:X4I0b.11640$zC4.6398@fe13.atl2.webusenet.com. .. > In article <4NC0b.126851$_R5.48164664@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net >, > Gus <GusPod@XXX.optonline.net> wrote: > > > The interior of the car is what - 2-3% of the interior volue of your > > house? Plus you have many materials in the car not usually seen in a > > house. > > There's *always* outside air being brought in, even in recirculate. And > as for materials in the car, everything in a car is seen in a house. > The chemical makeup is no different--even the exhaust. > > Speaking of, recirculate minimizes the exhaust you bring through the > car. That's why Japanese cars have the separate recirc button--Japanese > law requires it because of the exhaust and pollution issue. American > cars typically don't have such a button, because nobody ever made them > have one. they have a "MAX A/C" button- same thing. > > > > > FWIW, everything I've read over the years has recommended opening a > > window and running on RECIRC when starting up a car with a heated > > interior, then closing the window and switching to FRESH. > > Have you ever read your owner's manual? What *have* you read that > recommends the above? It makes no sense, actually, to start out on > recirculate. You want to cool the car down quickly, which means drawing > in outside air--which is much cooler and therefore easier for the A/C to > cool even further--and exhausting the very hot trapped air. > > > > > With the > > windows (& moonroof, if present) closed, there isn't much fresh air > > coming in, just equal to what the cabin vents permit to escape > > Right, which is why you open the windows to allow the extra hot trapped > air to be blown out by outside 90 degree air being drawn in and much > more efficiently cooled by the A/C. The net effect is that the interior > cools down MUCH more quickly than if you asked the A/C to start cooling > the 140 degree interior air. > |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message news:X4I0b.11640$zC4.6398@fe13.atl2.webusenet.com. .. > In article <4NC0b.126851$_R5.48164664@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net >, > Gus <GusPod@XXX.optonline.net> wrote: > > > The interior of the car is what - 2-3% of the interior volue of your > > house? Plus you have many materials in the car not usually seen in a > > house. > > There's *always* outside air being brought in, even in recirculate. And > as for materials in the car, everything in a car is seen in a house. > The chemical makeup is no different--even the exhaust. > > Speaking of, recirculate minimizes the exhaust you bring through the > car. That's why Japanese cars have the separate recirc button--Japanese > law requires it because of the exhaust and pollution issue. American > cars typically don't have such a button, because nobody ever made them > have one. they have a "MAX A/C" button- same thing. > > > > > FWIW, everything I've read over the years has recommended opening a > > window and running on RECIRC when starting up a car with a heated > > interior, then closing the window and switching to FRESH. > > Have you ever read your owner's manual? What *have* you read that > recommends the above? It makes no sense, actually, to start out on > recirculate. You want to cool the car down quickly, which means drawing > in outside air--which is much cooler and therefore easier for the A/C to > cool even further--and exhausting the very hot trapped air. > > > > > With the > > windows (& moonroof, if present) closed, there isn't much fresh air > > coming in, just equal to what the cabin vents permit to escape > > Right, which is why you open the windows to allow the extra hot trapped > air to be blown out by outside 90 degree air being drawn in and much > more efficiently cooled by the A/C. The net effect is that the interior > cools down MUCH more quickly than if you asked the A/C to start cooling > the 140 degree interior air. > |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
In article <WYT0b.210690$o%2.96646@sccrnsc02>,
"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote: > > law requires it because of the exhaust and pollution issue. American > > cars typically don't have such a button, because nobody ever made them > > have one. > > they have a "MAX A/C" button- same thing. no, it's not. MAC A/C turns on the air conditioner--period. I may not want that. I want control of my systems, including a separate recirculate button that's not tied to any other system. It just operates the blend door and closes it. Period. No other system is touched, and the A/C doesn't come on just because I wanted recirculate for a moment or two while I get away from the stinky bus. |
Re: windshield defogger -- cool air in warm weather w/o A/C?
In article <WYT0b.210690$o%2.96646@sccrnsc02>,
"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote: > > law requires it because of the exhaust and pollution issue. American > > cars typically don't have such a button, because nobody ever made them > > have one. > > they have a "MAX A/C" button- same thing. no, it's not. MAC A/C turns on the air conditioner--period. I may not want that. I want control of my systems, including a separate recirculate button that's not tied to any other system. It just operates the blend door and closes it. Period. No other system is touched, and the A/C doesn't come on just because I wanted recirculate for a moment or two while I get away from the stinky bus. |
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