Re: 2006 Sonata GL 2.5L/5 speed manual initial impressions
 

Matt Whiting wrote:

> Yes, I've confirmed that. I haven't taken it back to the dealer yet,
> but will do so this spring when things get really damp. I found turning
> the fan up to speed 3 or 4 helps, but I've never had to do that in my
> other cars. The only other car that had this problem was a 1971 Beetle,
> but it had basically no defrost capability at all!! I expected more
> from a modern design.

I can't speak about the Sonata, but that's typical of the Elantra. The
fans are just wimpy. I routinely have to use the 3 and 4 fan settings.
You'll get used to it.

Re: 2006 Sonata GL 2.5L/5 speed manual initial impressions
 

Matt Whiting wrote:

> Yes, I've confirmed that. I haven't taken it back to the dealer yet,
> but will do so this spring when things get really damp. I found turning
> the fan up to speed 3 or 4 helps, but I've never had to do that in my
> other cars. The only other car that had this problem was a 1971 Beetle,
> but it had basically no defrost capability at all!! I expected more
> from a modern design.

I can't speak about the Sonata, but that's typical of the Elantra. The
fans are just wimpy. I routinely have to use the 3 and 4 fan settings.
You'll get used to it.

Re: 2006 Sonata GL 2.5L/5 speed manual initial impressions
 

Matt Whiting wrote:
>
> The car handles well and the Michelin tires perform great in snow.

I laugh every time I see a statement like this. Get some snow tires and
you'll discover how pathetic "all season" tires truly are in the snow.
> The steering is a little too light with too little feedback, but not a major
> problem.

The Elantra is the same. The Elantra is my first car with power steering
and I'd rather not have it at all. Manual rack and pinion is far more
precise. If I could find a manual rack for it, I'd change it in a heartbeat!

> Heater doesn't distribute heat well to the footwells.

Ditto for the Elantra.

> Fuel economy - First tank was 27 MPG (60-70% highway probably) and
> second tank was 29 MPG (maybe 70-80% highway), both in weather running
> in the high 20s to low 30s. I'm hoping for at least 30 in my normal mix
> of driving once the car is broke in and the weather gets a little
> warmer. I drive 70-80% highway typically. I'd like to get closer to
> the 34 highway rating, but I doubt that will happen as all of the road
> tests I've seen of Hyundais show that they don't get as close to the EPA
> ratings as to most other car makers (Toyota in particular does well in
> this regard).

I don't know what reports you've been reading, but manual transmission
Hyundais, typically exceed their EPA ratings if they're driven sensibly.
My '04 Elantra GT hatchback is rated at 34 mpg, but I regularly get
35-37 mpg @65 mph on highway drives in the summer. I'll typically
average 34 or so combined. With snow tires on, winter blend gas and cold
weather, my winter mileage drops to 33-35 mpg on the highway and ~32
overall.

You don't specify the speeds you drive at or what your driving habits
are. That will have more of an effect on your mileage than any other factor.

Re: 2006 Sonata GL 2.5L/5 speed manual initial impressions
 

Matt Whiting wrote:
>
> The car handles well and the Michelin tires perform great in snow.

I laugh every time I see a statement like this. Get some snow tires and
you'll discover how pathetic "all season" tires truly are in the snow.
> The steering is a little too light with too little feedback, but not a major
> problem.

The Elantra is the same. The Elantra is my first car with power steering
and I'd rather not have it at all. Manual rack and pinion is far more
precise. If I could find a manual rack for it, I'd change it in a heartbeat!

> Heater doesn't distribute heat well to the footwells.

Ditto for the Elantra.

> Fuel economy - First tank was 27 MPG (60-70% highway probably) and
> second tank was 29 MPG (maybe 70-80% highway), both in weather running
> in the high 20s to low 30s. I'm hoping for at least 30 in my normal mix
> of driving once the car is broke in and the weather gets a little
> warmer. I drive 70-80% highway typically. I'd like to get closer to
> the 34 highway rating, but I doubt that will happen as all of the road
> tests I've seen of Hyundais show that they don't get as close to the EPA
> ratings as to most other car makers (Toyota in particular does well in
> this regard).

I don't know what reports you've been reading, but manual transmission
Hyundais, typically exceed their EPA ratings if they're driven sensibly.
My '04 Elantra GT hatchback is rated at 34 mpg, but I regularly get
35-37 mpg @65 mph on highway drives in the summer. I'll typically
average 34 or so combined. With snow tires on, winter blend gas and cold
weather, my winter mileage drops to 33-35 mpg on the highway and ~32
overall.

You don't specify the speeds you drive at or what your driving habits
are. That will have more of an effect on your mileage than any other factor.

Re: 2006 Sonata GL 2.5L/5 speed manual initial impressions
 

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:M_8wf.4944$lb.429636@news1.epix.net...
> James Atkinson wrote:
>
> > I have a 40 miles GL AT, I can compare it with a V6 2003 Camry: feels
> > exactly the same, handles the road a little better (possible due to
superior
> > tires), power is adequate, suspension feels unrefined (running over the
> > speed bumps produces a loud thud), quiet otherwise. Transmission shifts
> > nicely, shiftronic is a un-necessary addition: does anybody use this on
a
> > current basis?!
>
> That reminds me that I have a loud snap/pop sound in my dash when I hit
> a really sharp bump. It does it rarely, but if I hit just the right
> bump (usually the leading edge of a bridge where the road has settle a
> couple of inches before the concrete bridge apron), it makes one loud
> snap that sounds like it is coming from the upper center of the dash.
>
> As for the tranny, I test drove the shiftronic and felt it largely a
> gimic. It wasn't natural to me to shift gears by toggling the handle.
> I've driven stick all my driving life (30 years now) and I kept wanting
> to go opposite directions on alternate gears! The only advantage I
> could see was the ability to hold the transmission in a given gear.
> However, this could have been accomplished much more easily and cheaply
> with a button on the shifter. My minivans are notorious for shifting
> constantly when driving on hilly roads (like interstate 80 through
> western PA) and route 15 near where I live. The are constantly going
> from lock to unlock in 4th to 3rd back to 4th back to lockup and then
> repeating. And the engine doesn't really lug at all before the
> transmission downshifts. I like to be able to use the throttle rather
> than the transmission to maintain speed on little hills.
>
> Matt

I just checked the pressure in the tires. Dealer over-inflated them to 35
psi (recommended 30 front, 29 rear). That might be the reason for the
roughness of the suspension. I didn't have the chance to drive the care on a
highway only local streets. Never exceeded 50 mph, but my wife that followed
me with the other car told me that at a certain moment I was driving with 65
mph. The speedometer might not be accurate (Sonata's) or she did not drive
it at constant speed.

James

Re: 2006 Sonata GL 2.5L/5 speed manual initial impressions
 

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:M_8wf.4944$lb.429636@news1.epix.net...
> James Atkinson wrote:
>
> > I have a 40 miles GL AT, I can compare it with a V6 2003 Camry: feels
> > exactly the same, handles the road a little better (possible due to
superior
> > tires), power is adequate, suspension feels unrefined (running over the
> > speed bumps produces a loud thud), quiet otherwise. Transmission shifts
> > nicely, shiftronic is a un-necessary addition: does anybody use this on
a
> > current basis?!
>
> That reminds me that I have a loud snap/pop sound in my dash when I hit
> a really sharp bump. It does it rarely, but if I hit just the right
> bump (usually the leading edge of a bridge where the road has settle a
> couple of inches before the concrete bridge apron), it makes one loud
> snap that sounds like it is coming from the upper center of the dash.
>
> As for the tranny, I test drove the shiftronic and felt it largely a
> gimic. It wasn't natural to me to shift gears by toggling the handle.
> I've driven stick all my driving life (30 years now) and I kept wanting
> to go opposite directions on alternate gears! The only advantage I
> could see was the ability to hold the transmission in a given gear.
> However, this could have been accomplished much more easily and cheaply
> with a button on the shifter. My minivans are notorious for shifting
> constantly when driving on hilly roads (like interstate 80 through
> western PA) and route 15 near where I live. The are constantly going
> from lock to unlock in 4th to 3rd back to 4th back to lockup and then
> repeating. And the engine doesn't really lug at all before the
> transmission downshifts. I like to be able to use the throttle rather
> than the transmission to maintain speed on little hills.
>
> Matt

I just checked the pressure in the tires. Dealer over-inflated them to 35
psi (recommended 30 front, 29 rear). That might be the reason for the
roughness of the suspension. I didn't have the chance to drive the care on a
highway only local streets. Never exceeded 50 mph, but my wife that followed
me with the other car told me that at a certain moment I was driving with 65
mph. The speedometer might not be accurate (Sonata's) or she did not drive
it at constant speed.

James

Re: 2006 Sonata GL 2.5L/5 speed manual initial impressions
 

Brian Nystrom wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>>
>> The car handles well and the Michelin tires perform great in snow.
>
>
> I laugh every time I see a statement like this. Get some snow tires and
> you'll discover how pathetic "all season" tires truly are in the snow.

Like I do with your statement. People who don't know how to drive in
snow say this all the time. I've got 30 years of winter driving
experience, including five years driving tractor trailers on and off
road hauling logs.

I drive my K1500 quite regularly in the snow as I plow my 1700' long
driveway with it. It has the heaviest lug M&S tires I could find. Snow
tires are better in snow, but the difference is relatively minor in most
conditions. In the conditions that prevail 95% of the time in PA and NY
(dry or wet pavement), all-season tires are better performers than snow
tires.

I've had no problem climbing my driveway with the Sonata's stock
Michelins, so adding snow tires would be solving a problem that doesn't
exist.


>> The steering is a little too light with too little feedback, but not a
>> major problem.
>
>
> The Elantra is the same. The Elantra is my first car with power steering
> and I'd rather not have it at all. Manual rack and pinion is far more
> precise. If I could find a manual rack for it, I'd change it in a
> heartbeat!

Yes, I agree that in a small car, there is little need for power
steering unless you are physically handicapped. I'd prefer manual myself.


>> Heater doesn't distribute heat well to the footwells.
>
>
> Ditto for the Elantra.

I guess every brand has to have its achilles heel!


>> Fuel economy - First tank was 27 MPG (60-70% highway probably) and
>> second tank was 29 MPG (maybe 70-80% highway), both in weather running
>> in the high 20s to low 30s. I'm hoping for at least 30 in my normal
>> mix of driving once the car is broke in and the weather gets a little
>> warmer. I drive 70-80% highway typically. I'd like to get closer to
>> the 34 highway rating, but I doubt that will happen as all of the road
>> tests I've seen of Hyundais show that they don't get as close to the
>> EPA ratings as to most other car makers (Toyota in particular does
>> well in this regard).
>
>
> I don't know what reports you've been reading, but manual transmission
> Hyundais, typically exceed their EPA ratings if they're driven sensibly.
> My '04 Elantra GT hatchback is rated at 34 mpg, but I regularly get
> 35-37 mpg @65 mph on highway drives in the summer. I'll typically
> average 34 or so combined. With snow tires on, winter blend gas and cold
> weather, my winter mileage drops to 33-35 mpg on the highway and ~32
> overall.

I've seen no reports on a standard shift hyundais. One report I saw was
one handed out by the salesman. I think it was Motor Trend, but I'm
not sure. I believe there was a Consumer Reports test a while back on
either the Sonata (not the new model) or the Elantra and it didn't fair
well mileage-wise. I check every tank in all of my cars so I'll know in
a few months how the Sonata is doing.


> You don't specify the speeds you drive at or what your driving habits
> are. That will have more of an effect on your mileage than any other
> factor.

I've been driving 55 mostly with excursions to 50 and 60 to vary the
speed during break-in. I've been shifting at the recommended 15, 25, 35
and 45 points, which is pretty conservative ... less than 3,000 RPM in
most gears. I've not yet revved the engine past 4,000 grand.

Matt

Re: 2006 Sonata GL 2.5L/5 speed manual initial impressions
 

Brian Nystrom wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>>
>> The car handles well and the Michelin tires perform great in snow.
>
>
> I laugh every time I see a statement like this. Get some snow tires and
> you'll discover how pathetic "all season" tires truly are in the snow.

Like I do with your statement. People who don't know how to drive in
snow say this all the time. I've got 30 years of winter driving
experience, including five years driving tractor trailers on and off
road hauling logs.

I drive my K1500 quite regularly in the snow as I plow my 1700' long
driveway with it. It has the heaviest lug M&S tires I could find. Snow
tires are better in snow, but the difference is relatively minor in most
conditions. In the conditions that prevail 95% of the time in PA and NY
(dry or wet pavement), all-season tires are better performers than snow
tires.

I've had no problem climbing my driveway with the Sonata's stock
Michelins, so adding snow tires would be solving a problem that doesn't
exist.


>> The steering is a little too light with too little feedback, but not a
>> major problem.
>
>
> The Elantra is the same. The Elantra is my first car with power steering
> and I'd rather not have it at all. Manual rack and pinion is far more
> precise. If I could find a manual rack for it, I'd change it in a
> heartbeat!

Yes, I agree that in a small car, there is little need for power
steering unless you are physically handicapped. I'd prefer manual myself.


>> Heater doesn't distribute heat well to the footwells.
>
>
> Ditto for the Elantra.

I guess every brand has to have its achilles heel!


>> Fuel economy - First tank was 27 MPG (60-70% highway probably) and
>> second tank was 29 MPG (maybe 70-80% highway), both in weather running
>> in the high 20s to low 30s. I'm hoping for at least 30 in my normal
>> mix of driving once the car is broke in and the weather gets a little
>> warmer. I drive 70-80% highway typically. I'd like to get closer to
>> the 34 highway rating, but I doubt that will happen as all of the road
>> tests I've seen of Hyundais show that they don't get as close to the
>> EPA ratings as to most other car makers (Toyota in particular does
>> well in this regard).
>
>
> I don't know what reports you've been reading, but manual transmission
> Hyundais, typically exceed their EPA ratings if they're driven sensibly.
> My '04 Elantra GT hatchback is rated at 34 mpg, but I regularly get
> 35-37 mpg @65 mph on highway drives in the summer. I'll typically
> average 34 or so combined. With snow tires on, winter blend gas and cold
> weather, my winter mileage drops to 33-35 mpg on the highway and ~32
> overall.

I've seen no reports on a standard shift hyundais. One report I saw was
one handed out by the salesman. I think it was Motor Trend, but I'm
not sure. I believe there was a Consumer Reports test a while back on
either the Sonata (not the new model) or the Elantra and it didn't fair
well mileage-wise. I check every tank in all of my cars so I'll know in
a few months how the Sonata is doing.


> You don't specify the speeds you drive at or what your driving habits
> are. That will have more of an effect on your mileage than any other
> factor.

I've been driving 55 mostly with excursions to 50 and 60 to vary the
speed during break-in. I've been shifting at the recommended 15, 25, 35
and 45 points, which is pretty conservative ... less than 3,000 RPM in
most gears. I've not yet revved the engine past 4,000 grand.

Matt

Re: 2006 Sonata GL 2.5L/5 speed manual initial impressions
 

Matt Whiting wrote:

>
> Well, I'm closing in on 1,000 miles now and am on my third tank of gas.
> My early impressions of the car are:
>
> Pros -
>
> Styling is great, but then this is very subjective.
> Interior room is great for this size (exterior-wise) car.
> Power is great for a 4 cylinder.
> Braking is impressive and I like having disks on all four corners.
> Quietness for a car of this price.
> Controls are pretty good and easy to find, although I dislike the dimmer
> switch that must be pushed forward and pulled back. I much prefer the
> toggle style dimmers in my American cars.
> Sound system is pretty good.
> Assembly quality seems very good.
> The car handles well and the Michelin tires perform great in snow. The
> steering is a little too light with too little feedback, but not a major
> problem.
>
> Cons -
>
> Heater doesn't distribute heat well to the footwells.
> Windows fog up with more than two people in the car.
> The seat belts are too close to the interior panel making it hard for me
> to grab ahold of them to put them on. The receptacle is also too close
> to the console leaving insufficient room for my hand to insert the buckle.
> The electronic throttle is too light (too little feedback) making it
> hard to make a smooth start in 1st gear as the engine is also too quiet
> to hear. In an automatic this wouldn't be an issue.
> The storage bins are all the wrong size for common items. I use a 4x6"
> spiral bound notebook to keep my vehicle log for fuel purchases and
> maintenance. The cubby under the heater controls is about 5 7/8" wide
> which means this notebook won't fit in it. It fits perfectly in a
> similar cubby in my Chrysler minivan. Likewise, the top compartment of
> the console looks like it was designed to hold a short stack of CDs, but
> again it is about 1/8" too small for a standard CD case. And the bottom
> compartment looks like it is the right size for a standard square box of
> tissues, but again it is about 1/8" too small. Fortunately, the tissue
> boxes give and I can jamb one in there.
>
> Neutral -
>
> Fuel economy - First tank was 27 MPG (60-70% highway probably) and
> second tank was 29 MPG (maybe 70-80% highway), both in weather running
> in the high 20s to low 30s. I'm hoping for at least 30 in my normal mix
> of driving once the car is broke in and the weather gets a little
> warmer. I drive 70-80% highway typically. I'd like to get closer to
> the 34 highway rating, but I doubt that will happen as all of the road
> tests I've seen of Hyundais show that they don't get as close to the EPA
> ratings as to most other car makers (Toyota in particular does well in
> this regard).
>
>
> I'm be curious to hear others initial impressions of their Sonatas.
>
>
> Matt

One more small nit on the 4 cylinder is the dipstick. The tube is about
4" down in a hole in the engine decorative cover (I still can't figure
out why anyone needs these on their engine fer cryin' out loud!). And
the tube is black. I can't even see the tube in anything other than
bright sunlight or with a flashlight. Getting the dipstick back into
the tube at night or on a cloudy day is a pain.

Matt

Re: 2006 Sonata GL 2.5L/5 speed manual initial impressions
 

Matt Whiting wrote:

>
> Well, I'm closing in on 1,000 miles now and am on my third tank of gas.
> My early impressions of the car are:
>
> Pros -
>
> Styling is great, but then this is very subjective.
> Interior room is great for this size (exterior-wise) car.
> Power is great for a 4 cylinder.
> Braking is impressive and I like having disks on all four corners.
> Quietness for a car of this price.
> Controls are pretty good and easy to find, although I dislike the dimmer
> switch that must be pushed forward and pulled back. I much prefer the
> toggle style dimmers in my American cars.
> Sound system is pretty good.
> Assembly quality seems very good.
> The car handles well and the Michelin tires perform great in snow. The
> steering is a little too light with too little feedback, but not a major
> problem.
>
> Cons -
>
> Heater doesn't distribute heat well to the footwells.
> Windows fog up with more than two people in the car.
> The seat belts are too close to the interior panel making it hard for me
> to grab ahold of them to put them on. The receptacle is also too close
> to the console leaving insufficient room for my hand to insert the buckle.
> The electronic throttle is too light (too little feedback) making it
> hard to make a smooth start in 1st gear as the engine is also too quiet
> to hear. In an automatic this wouldn't be an issue.
> The storage bins are all the wrong size for common items. I use a 4x6"
> spiral bound notebook to keep my vehicle log for fuel purchases and
> maintenance. The cubby under the heater controls is about 5 7/8" wide
> which means this notebook won't fit in it. It fits perfectly in a
> similar cubby in my Chrysler minivan. Likewise, the top compartment of
> the console looks like it was designed to hold a short stack of CDs, but
> again it is about 1/8" too small for a standard CD case. And the bottom
> compartment looks like it is the right size for a standard square box of
> tissues, but again it is about 1/8" too small. Fortunately, the tissue
> boxes give and I can jamb one in there.
>
> Neutral -
>
> Fuel economy - First tank was 27 MPG (60-70% highway probably) and
> second tank was 29 MPG (maybe 70-80% highway), both in weather running
> in the high 20s to low 30s. I'm hoping for at least 30 in my normal mix
> of driving once the car is broke in and the weather gets a little
> warmer. I drive 70-80% highway typically. I'd like to get closer to
> the 34 highway rating, but I doubt that will happen as all of the road
> tests I've seen of Hyundais show that they don't get as close to the EPA
> ratings as to most other car makers (Toyota in particular does well in
> this regard).
>
>
> I'm be curious to hear others initial impressions of their Sonatas.
>
>
> Matt

One more small nit on the 4 cylinder is the dipstick. The tube is about
4" down in a hole in the engine decorative cover (I still can't figure
out why anyone needs these on their engine fer cryin' out loud!). And
the tube is black. I can't even see the tube in anything other than
bright sunlight or with a flashlight. Getting the dipstick back into
the tube at night or on a cloudy day is a pain.

Matt

Re: 2006 Sonata GL 2.5L/5 speed manual initial impressions
 

James Atkinson wrote:

> I just checked the pressure in the tires. Dealer over-inflated them to 35
> psi (recommended 30 front, 29 rear). That might be the reason for the
> roughness of the suspension.

That's not actually overinflated. The tires are rated to 44 psi. You'll
find that the car handles best and the tires wear most evenly with 4-5
psi more pressure in the front than in the rear. That's because the
front tires carry ~60% of the weight of the vehicle. Lower pressures may
feel more comfortable, but you'll pay for it in the long run with
increased tire wear.

> I didn't have the chance to drive the care on a
> highway only local streets. Never exceeded 50 mph, but my wife that followed
> me with the other car told me that at a certain moment I was driving with 65
> mph. The speedometer might not be accurate (Sonata's) or she did not drive
> it at constant speed.

It's really hard to believe that the speedo could be off by 15 mph. If
you want to guage it, do it while driving side-by-side on the highway.
Or, if you can find a measured mile locally, drive it at 60 mph and time
how long it takes. It should take exactly 1 minute. If it varies
significantly, take it to the dealer.

Re: 2006 Sonata GL 2.5L/5 speed manual initial impressions
 

James Atkinson wrote:

> I just checked the pressure in the tires. Dealer over-inflated them to 35
> psi (recommended 30 front, 29 rear). That might be the reason for the
> roughness of the suspension.

That's not actually overinflated. The tires are rated to 44 psi. You'll
find that the car handles best and the tires wear most evenly with 4-5
psi more pressure in the front than in the rear. That's because the
front tires carry ~60% of the weight of the vehicle. Lower pressures may
feel more comfortable, but you'll pay for it in the long run with
increased tire wear.

> I didn't have the chance to drive the care on a
> highway only local streets. Never exceeded 50 mph, but my wife that followed
> me with the other car told me that at a certain moment I was driving with 65
> mph. The speedometer might not be accurate (Sonata's) or she did not drive
> it at constant speed.

It's really hard to believe that the speedo could be off by 15 mph. If
you want to guage it, do it while driving side-by-side on the highway.
Or, if you can find a measured mile locally, drive it at 60 mph and time
how long it takes. It should take exactly 1 minute. If it varies
significantly, take it to the dealer.

Re: 2006 Sonata GL 2.5L/5 speed manual initial impressions
 

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Brian Nystrom wrote:
>
>> Matt Whiting wrote:

>>> The car handles well and the Michelin tires perform great in snow.

>> I laugh every time I see a statement like this. Get some snow tires
>> and you'll discover how pathetic "all season" tires truly are in the
>> snow.

> Like I do with your statement. People who don't know how to drive in
> snow say this all the time. I've got 30 years of winter driving
> experience, including five years driving tractor trailers on and off
> road hauling logs.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this point. I'm in my 1st winter
driving in New Hampshire and I know how to drive in snow. I've compared
good snow tires (Nokian) to the stock Michellins and there is absolutely
no comparison in traction. The Nokians are FAR better in snow and
significantly better on ice.

> I drive my K1500 quite regularly in the snow as I plow my 1700' long
> driveway with it. It has the heaviest lug M&S tires I could find. Snow
> tires are better in snow, but the difference is relatively minor in most
> conditions. In the conditions that prevail 95% of the time in PA and NY
> (dry or wet pavement), all-season tires are better performers than snow
> tires.

Granted, the stock tires are better on wet/dry pavement, but that's not
my concern in winter. Snow tires are better on snow and ice.

>>> The steering is a little too light with too little feedback, but not
>>> a major problem.

>> The Elantra is the same. The Elantra is my first car with power
>> steering and I'd rather not have it at all. Manual rack and pinion is
>> far more precise. If I could find a manual rack for it, I'd change it
>> in a heartbeat!
>
> Yes, I agree that in a small car, there is little need for power
> steering unless you are physically handicapped. I'd prefer manual myself.

Unfortunately, I haven't found anyone that makes a manual rack for
Hyundais. I've considered just disconnecting the p/s pump and draining
the fluid, since the steering is rack and pinion and the stock steering
ratio seems reasonable for use un-boosted, but I'm not sure how well
that will work. I may try it next summer, as an experiment. It would be
nice to get rid of the extra weight and drag of the p/s pump. I would
think it would gain an extra mpg or two.

>>> Heater doesn't distribute heat well to the footwells.

>> Ditto for the Elantra.

> I guess every brand has to have its achilles heel!

In this case, one warm heel and one cold heel. ;-)

>>> Fuel economy - First tank was 27 MPG (60-70% highway probably) and
>>> second tank was 29 MPG (maybe 70-80% highway), both in weather
>>> running in the high 20s to low 30s. I'm hoping for at least 30 in my
>>> normal mix of driving once the car is broke in and the weather gets a
>>> little warmer. I drive 70-80% highway typically. I'd like to get
>>> closer to the 34 highway rating, but I doubt that will happen as all
>>> of the road tests I've seen of Hyundais show that they don't get as
>>> close to the EPA ratings as to most other car makers (Toyota in
>>> particular does well in this regard).

>> I don't know what reports you've been reading, but manual transmission
>> Hyundais, typically exceed their EPA ratings if they're driven
>> sensibly. My '04 Elantra GT hatchback is rated at 34 mpg, but I
>> regularly get 35-37 mpg @65 mph on highway drives in the summer. I'll
>> typically average 34 or so combined. With snow tires on, winter blend
>> gas and cold weather, my winter mileage drops to 33-35 mpg on the
>> highway and ~32 overall.

> I've seen no reports on a standard shift hyundais. One report I saw was
> one handed out by the salesman. I think it was Motor Trend, but I'm
> not sure. I believe there was a Consumer Reports test a while back on
> either the Sonata (not the new model) or the Elantra and it didn't fair
> well mileage-wise. I check every tank in all of my cars so I'll know in
> a few months how the Sonata is doing.

Hyundai automatics seem to struggle to meet their EPA ratings and most
often don't in the real world.

>> You don't specify the speeds you drive at or what your driving habits
>> are. That will have more of an effect on your mileage than any other
>> factor.

> I've been driving 55 mostly with excursions to 50 and 60 to vary the
> speed during break-in. I've been shifting at the recommended 15, 25, 35
> and 45 points, which is pretty conservative ... less than 3,000 RPM in
> most gears. I've not yet revved the engine past 4,000 grand.

Like you, I was initially disappointed with the gas mileage in my
Elantra. However, it increased rapidly for the first few tankfulls and
continued to increase gradually for ~10K miles. I switched the engine to
synthetic oil at 3000 miles and the transmission to synthetic lube at
10K. That seems to increase fuel mileage, particularly in winter. If you
decide to do the same, Redline MT-90 seems to be the synthetic gear lube
of choice for the tranny. You must use a GL-3 lube and it's one of the
few available.

Re: 2006 Sonata GL 2.5L/5 speed manual initial impressions
 

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Brian Nystrom wrote:
>
>> Matt Whiting wrote:

>>> The car handles well and the Michelin tires perform great in snow.

>> I laugh every time I see a statement like this. Get some snow tires
>> and you'll discover how pathetic "all season" tires truly are in the
>> snow.

> Like I do with your statement. People who don't know how to drive in
> snow say this all the time. I've got 30 years of winter driving
> experience, including five years driving tractor trailers on and off
> road hauling logs.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this point. I'm in my 1st winter
driving in New Hampshire and I know how to drive in snow. I've compared
good snow tires (Nokian) to the stock Michellins and there is absolutely
no comparison in traction. The Nokians are FAR better in snow and
significantly better on ice.

> I drive my K1500 quite regularly in the snow as I plow my 1700' long
> driveway with it. It has the heaviest lug M&S tires I could find. Snow
> tires are better in snow, but the difference is relatively minor in most
> conditions. In the conditions that prevail 95% of the time in PA and NY
> (dry or wet pavement), all-season tires are better performers than snow
> tires.

Granted, the stock tires are better on wet/dry pavement, but that's not
my concern in winter. Snow tires are better on snow and ice.

>>> The steering is a little too light with too little feedback, but not
>>> a major problem.

>> The Elantra is the same. The Elantra is my first car with power
>> steering and I'd rather not have it at all. Manual rack and pinion is
>> far more precise. If I could find a manual rack for it, I'd change it
>> in a heartbeat!
>
> Yes, I agree that in a small car, there is little need for power
> steering unless you are physically handicapped. I'd prefer manual myself.

Unfortunately, I haven't found anyone that makes a manual rack for
Hyundais. I've considered just disconnecting the p/s pump and draining
the fluid, since the steering is rack and pinion and the stock steering
ratio seems reasonable for use un-boosted, but I'm not sure how well
that will work. I may try it next summer, as an experiment. It would be
nice to get rid of the extra weight and drag of the p/s pump. I would
think it would gain an extra mpg or two.

>>> Heater doesn't distribute heat well to the footwells.

>> Ditto for the Elantra.

> I guess every brand has to have its achilles heel!

In this case, one warm heel and one cold heel. ;-)

>>> Fuel economy - First tank was 27 MPG (60-70% highway probably) and
>>> second tank was 29 MPG (maybe 70-80% highway), both in weather
>>> running in the high 20s to low 30s. I'm hoping for at least 30 in my
>>> normal mix of driving once the car is broke in and the weather gets a
>>> little warmer. I drive 70-80% highway typically. I'd like to get
>>> closer to the 34 highway rating, but I doubt that will happen as all
>>> of the road tests I've seen of Hyundais show that they don't get as
>>> close to the EPA ratings as to most other car makers (Toyota in
>>> particular does well in this regard).

>> I don't know what reports you've been reading, but manual transmission
>> Hyundais, typically exceed their EPA ratings if they're driven
>> sensibly. My '04 Elantra GT hatchback is rated at 34 mpg, but I
>> regularly get 35-37 mpg @65 mph on highway drives in the summer. I'll
>> typically average 34 or so combined. With snow tires on, winter blend
>> gas and cold weather, my winter mileage drops to 33-35 mpg on the
>> highway and ~32 overall.

> I've seen no reports on a standard shift hyundais. One report I saw was
> one handed out by the salesman. I think it was Motor Trend, but I'm
> not sure. I believe there was a Consumer Reports test a while back on
> either the Sonata (not the new model) or the Elantra and it didn't fair
> well mileage-wise. I check every tank in all of my cars so I'll know in
> a few months how the Sonata is doing.

Hyundai automatics seem to struggle to meet their EPA ratings and most
often don't in the real world.

>> You don't specify the speeds you drive at or what your driving habits
>> are. That will have more of an effect on your mileage than any other
>> factor.

> I've been driving 55 mostly with excursions to 50 and 60 to vary the
> speed during break-in. I've been shifting at the recommended 15, 25, 35
> and 45 points, which is pretty conservative ... less than 3,000 RPM in
> most gears. I've not yet revved the engine past 4,000 grand.

Like you, I was initially disappointed with the gas mileage in my
Elantra. However, it increased rapidly for the first few tankfulls and
continued to increase gradually for ~10K miles. I switched the engine to
synthetic oil at 3000 miles and the transmission to synthetic lube at
10K. That seems to increase fuel mileage, particularly in winter. If you
decide to do the same, Redline MT-90 seems to be the synthetic gear lube
of choice for the tranny. You must use a GL-3 lube and it's one of the
few available.

Re: 2006 Sonata GL 2.5L/5 speed manual initial impressions
 

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>>
>> Well, I'm closing in on 1,000 miles now and am on my third tank of
>> gas. My early impressions of the car are:
>>
>> Pros -
>>
>> Styling is great, but then this is very subjective.
>> Interior room is great for this size (exterior-wise) car.
>> Power is great for a 4 cylinder.
>> Braking is impressive and I like having disks on all four corners.
>> Quietness for a car of this price.
>> Controls are pretty good and easy to find, although I dislike the
>> dimmer switch that must be pushed forward and pulled back. I much
>> prefer the toggle style dimmers in my American cars.
>> Sound system is pretty good.
>> Assembly quality seems very good.
>> The car handles well and the Michelin tires perform great in snow.
>> The steering is a little too light with too little feedback, but not a
>> major problem.
>>
>> Cons -
>>
>> Heater doesn't distribute heat well to the footwells.
>> Windows fog up with more than two people in the car.
>> The seat belts are too close to the interior panel making it hard for
>> me to grab ahold of them to put them on. The receptacle is also too
>> close to the console leaving insufficient room for my hand to insert
>> the buckle.
>> The electronic throttle is too light (too little feedback) making it
>> hard to make a smooth start in 1st gear as the engine is also too
>> quiet to hear. In an automatic this wouldn't be an issue.
>> The storage bins are all the wrong size for common items. I use a
>> 4x6" spiral bound notebook to keep my vehicle log for fuel purchases
>> and maintenance. The cubby under the heater controls is about 5 7/8"
>> wide which means this notebook won't fit in it. It fits perfectly in
>> a similar cubby in my Chrysler minivan. Likewise, the top compartment
>> of the console looks like it was designed to hold a short stack of
>> CDs, but again it is about 1/8" too small for a standard CD case. And
>> the bottom compartment looks like it is the right size for a standard
>> square box of tissues, but again it is about 1/8" too small.
>> Fortunately, the tissue boxes give and I can jamb one in there.
>>
>> Neutral -
>>
>> Fuel economy - First tank was 27 MPG (60-70% highway probably) and
>> second tank was 29 MPG (maybe 70-80% highway), both in weather running
>> in the high 20s to low 30s. I'm hoping for at least 30 in my normal
>> mix of driving once the car is broke in and the weather gets a little
>> warmer. I drive 70-80% highway typically. I'd like to get closer to
>> the 34 highway rating, but I doubt that will happen as all of the road
>> tests I've seen of Hyundais show that they don't get as close to the
>> EPA ratings as to most other car makers (Toyota in particular does
>> well in this regard).
>>
>>
>> I'm be curious to hear others initial impressions of their Sonatas.
>>
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> One more small nit on the 4 cylinder is the dipstick. The tube is about
> 4" down in a hole in the engine decorative cover (I still can't figure
> out why anyone needs these on their engine fer cryin' out loud!).

I can only think of two reasons for them:

1) Showroom appeal. It looks nice.
2) It does keep the engine cleaner, which makes it more pleasant to work
on. At least the Hyundai covers are quick to remove and you could always
leave them off, if you want to.

If you think Hyundai engines are bad, take a look at a VW sometime. My
girlfriend's Passat's engine compartment has so many covers that it take
half an hour of disassembly to gain access to anything in it. It's the
most inconveniently designed car I've ever worked on. Fortunately for
me, it's pretty reliable and when she bought it (used), it came with a
transferrable extended warranty. She just has her friendly, local VW
mechanic work on it and the warranty covers everything significant. It
gets me off the hook. ;-)