Re: 2006 Sonata traction control vs 4WD?
 

BillyGoat wrote:
> Don't forget that with the shiftronic Xmission, you can force it to start in
> 2nd gear. That helps a lot to start off in snow/ice.

Just like the old Rambler "Flash-O-Matic" transmission with its "D1"
and "D2" positions. (For 1st gear and 2nd gear starts, respectively.)
Everything old is new again!

Don't even get me started on that GMC SUV that has the sliding roof
panel in the back like the old Studebaker "Wagonaire" station wagons...

Re: 2006 Sonata traction control vs 4WD?
 

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:6TcAf.157$Jn1.44@trndny01...

>
> If you want to be safe in the winter there are three things you should do:
>
> 1- Install good quality snow tires on all four wheels. Nokian tires are
> my personal favorite.

Brian and I disagree on this point and we both have roughly the same number
of years of driving experience in the Northeast. I use good ASR tires
(M&S), and Brian likes snows - we both get through the winters just fine...


>
> 2- Practice driving on slippery surfaces. Relying on technology is not a
> good idea, as it will often let you down when you need it most.
>
> 3- Drive sensibly. No car is foolproof and if you exceed the available
> traction, you'll be in trouble no matter what "gee wiz" technology your
> car is equipped with.

.... but that's largely because we both agree completely on the two points
above.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Re: 2006 Sonata traction control vs 4WD?
 

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:6TcAf.157$Jn1.44@trndny01...

>
> If you want to be safe in the winter there are three things you should do:
>
> 1- Install good quality snow tires on all four wheels. Nokian tires are
> my personal favorite.

Brian and I disagree on this point and we both have roughly the same number
of years of driving experience in the Northeast. I use good ASR tires
(M&S), and Brian likes snows - we both get through the winters just fine...


>
> 2- Practice driving on slippery surfaces. Relying on technology is not a
> good idea, as it will often let you down when you need it most.
>
> 3- Drive sensibly. No car is foolproof and if you exceed the available
> traction, you'll be in trouble no matter what "gee wiz" technology your
> car is equipped with.

.... but that's largely because we both agree completely on the two points
above.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Re: 2006 Sonata traction control vs 4WD?
 

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:6TcAf.157$Jn1.44@trndny01...

>
> If you want to be safe in the winter there are three things you should do:
>
> 1- Install good quality snow tires on all four wheels. Nokian tires are
> my personal favorite.

Brian and I disagree on this point and we both have roughly the same number
of years of driving experience in the Northeast. I use good ASR tires
(M&S), and Brian likes snows - we both get through the winters just fine...


>
> 2- Practice driving on slippery surfaces. Relying on technology is not a
> good idea, as it will often let you down when you need it most.
>
> 3- Drive sensibly. No car is foolproof and if you exceed the available
> traction, you'll be in trouble no matter what "gee wiz" technology your
> car is equipped with.

.... but that's largely because we both agree completely on the two points
above.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Re: 2006 Sonata traction control vs 4WD?
 

pdp11@techie.com wrote in
news:1137785000.057532.139080@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com:

> Anyone have experience yet with how the traction control in the 2006
> Sonata actually performs in the snow? We are considering the purchase
> of a new Hyundai vehicle, and are actually looking to replace an older
> 4-wheel-drive car (AMC Eagle) that was recently totalled in an
> accident. We're in the Northeast and have a fairly long, uphill
> driveway that the Eagle was able to navigate with ease even after a
> fairly heavy snowstorm.
>
> The Tuscson looks attractive, but I'm concerned over reports about
> very poor gas mileage -- on the order of 15 to 20 mpg. (This is about
> the same as the ancient AMC with its emissions-strangled, carbureted
> 4.2 liter six and 3-speed automatic!) With the rising price of gas
> this is obviously a concern. Hyundai is still using their older series
> engines and transmissions in both the Tuscon and Santa Fe, but the
> design is not *that* old -- I would have expected some improvement in
> efficiency over an AMC drivetrain that dates to the 1960s!
>
>>From what i've been reading, the new Sonata, with its new engine
> designs, gets decent mileage (mid to high 20s) even with the V6. I've
> also heard people say that with traction control you "don't need
> 4-wheel drive," but how true is this? Would a Sonata with traction
> control be able to scoot up a snow-covered driveway?
>

I've been driving in the northeasst for 20+ years. There was only one
time I needed 4 wheel drive, and that was in the blizzard of 1996. We
had 34" of snow in one day during that storm.

I've also never purchased snow tires (although a 1987 Honda Civic I had
came with them). Never needed them.

Now to comment on the 2006 Sonata, it is by far the best car I have
driven in the snow. I drove it in a 10" "mini-blizzard" and it was as
if I was driving on wet pavement. We've had at least four mornings with
black ice. I think that is where the traction control really comes into
play.

But as others have said, if you don't know how to drive in the weather,
and the limits of the car, you can still get yourself into deep water
quickly.

If you get a really heavy snow, you are not going to be able to plow up
your driveway without chains and/or snow tires. It's not going to be as
easy as the AMC, but I think in most cases you will be just fine.

Incidentally, and anecdotally, the guy I work with has a 2004 Sante Fe.
He only has a 2WD model, but his ground clearence is a little better
than mine. He was unable to make it to work when wew had the 10" snow.
Last Winter we had a good 18" snow while we were at work. When we left
for the day, he could not drive his Sante Fe out of the plant we work at
(about a 1500' driveway, up a slight hill with two turns). I was able
to get in and drive it right out without any trouble.

Re: 2006 Sonata traction control vs 4WD?
 

pdp11@techie.com wrote in
news:1137785000.057532.139080@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com:

> Anyone have experience yet with how the traction control in the 2006
> Sonata actually performs in the snow? We are considering the purchase
> of a new Hyundai vehicle, and are actually looking to replace an older
> 4-wheel-drive car (AMC Eagle) that was recently totalled in an
> accident. We're in the Northeast and have a fairly long, uphill
> driveway that the Eagle was able to navigate with ease even after a
> fairly heavy snowstorm.
>
> The Tuscson looks attractive, but I'm concerned over reports about
> very poor gas mileage -- on the order of 15 to 20 mpg. (This is about
> the same as the ancient AMC with its emissions-strangled, carbureted
> 4.2 liter six and 3-speed automatic!) With the rising price of gas
> this is obviously a concern. Hyundai is still using their older series
> engines and transmissions in both the Tuscon and Santa Fe, but the
> design is not *that* old -- I would have expected some improvement in
> efficiency over an AMC drivetrain that dates to the 1960s!
>
>>From what i've been reading, the new Sonata, with its new engine
> designs, gets decent mileage (mid to high 20s) even with the V6. I've
> also heard people say that with traction control you "don't need
> 4-wheel drive," but how true is this? Would a Sonata with traction
> control be able to scoot up a snow-covered driveway?
>

I've been driving in the northeasst for 20+ years. There was only one
time I needed 4 wheel drive, and that was in the blizzard of 1996. We
had 34" of snow in one day during that storm.

I've also never purchased snow tires (although a 1987 Honda Civic I had
came with them). Never needed them.

Now to comment on the 2006 Sonata, it is by far the best car I have
driven in the snow. I drove it in a 10" "mini-blizzard" and it was as
if I was driving on wet pavement. We've had at least four mornings with
black ice. I think that is where the traction control really comes into
play.

But as others have said, if you don't know how to drive in the weather,
and the limits of the car, you can still get yourself into deep water
quickly.

If you get a really heavy snow, you are not going to be able to plow up
your driveway without chains and/or snow tires. It's not going to be as
easy as the AMC, but I think in most cases you will be just fine.

Incidentally, and anecdotally, the guy I work with has a 2004 Sante Fe.
He only has a 2WD model, but his ground clearence is a little better
than mine. He was unable to make it to work when wew had the 10" snow.
Last Winter we had a good 18" snow while we were at work. When we left
for the day, he could not drive his Sante Fe out of the plant we work at
(about a 1500' driveway, up a slight hill with two turns). I was able
to get in and drive it right out without any trouble.

Re: 2006 Sonata traction control vs 4WD?
 

pdp11@techie.com wrote in
news:1137785000.057532.139080@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com:

> Anyone have experience yet with how the traction control in the 2006
> Sonata actually performs in the snow? We are considering the purchase
> of a new Hyundai vehicle, and are actually looking to replace an older
> 4-wheel-drive car (AMC Eagle) that was recently totalled in an
> accident. We're in the Northeast and have a fairly long, uphill
> driveway that the Eagle was able to navigate with ease even after a
> fairly heavy snowstorm.
>
> The Tuscson looks attractive, but I'm concerned over reports about
> very poor gas mileage -- on the order of 15 to 20 mpg. (This is about
> the same as the ancient AMC with its emissions-strangled, carbureted
> 4.2 liter six and 3-speed automatic!) With the rising price of gas
> this is obviously a concern. Hyundai is still using their older series
> engines and transmissions in both the Tuscon and Santa Fe, but the
> design is not *that* old -- I would have expected some improvement in
> efficiency over an AMC drivetrain that dates to the 1960s!
>
>>From what i've been reading, the new Sonata, with its new engine
> designs, gets decent mileage (mid to high 20s) even with the V6. I've
> also heard people say that with traction control you "don't need
> 4-wheel drive," but how true is this? Would a Sonata with traction
> control be able to scoot up a snow-covered driveway?
>

I've been driving in the northeasst for 20+ years. There was only one
time I needed 4 wheel drive, and that was in the blizzard of 1996. We
had 34" of snow in one day during that storm.

I've also never purchased snow tires (although a 1987 Honda Civic I had
came with them). Never needed them.

Now to comment on the 2006 Sonata, it is by far the best car I have
driven in the snow. I drove it in a 10" "mini-blizzard" and it was as
if I was driving on wet pavement. We've had at least four mornings with
black ice. I think that is where the traction control really comes into
play.

But as others have said, if you don't know how to drive in the weather,
and the limits of the car, you can still get yourself into deep water
quickly.

If you get a really heavy snow, you are not going to be able to plow up
your driveway without chains and/or snow tires. It's not going to be as
easy as the AMC, but I think in most cases you will be just fine.

Incidentally, and anecdotally, the guy I work with has a 2004 Sante Fe.
He only has a 2WD model, but his ground clearence is a little better
than mine. He was unable to make it to work when wew had the 10" snow.
Last Winter we had a good 18" snow while we were at work. When we left
for the day, he could not drive his Sante Fe out of the plant we work at
(about a 1500' driveway, up a slight hill with two turns). I was able
to get in and drive it right out without any trouble.

Re: 2006 Sonata traction control vs 4WD?
 

Brian Nystrom wrote:
> pdp11@techie.com wrote:
>
>> Anyone have experience yet with how the traction control in the 2006
>> Sonata actually performs in the snow? We are considering the purchase
>> of a new Hyundai vehicle, and are actually looking to replace an older
>> 4-wheel-drive car (AMC Eagle) that was recently totalled in an
>> accident. We're in the Northeast and have a fairly long, uphill
>> driveway that the Eagle was able to navigate with ease even after a
>> fairly heavy snowstorm.
>
>
> If you want to be safe in the winter there are three things you should do:
>
> 1- Install good quality snow tires on all four wheels. Nokian tires are
> my personal favorite.
>
> 2- Practice driving on slippery surfaces. Relying on technology is not a
> good idea, as it will often let you down when you need it most.
>
> 3- Drive sensibly. No car is foolproof and if you exceed the available
> traction, you'll be in trouble no matter what "gee wiz" technology your
> car is equipped with.
>
> After 31 winters of driving in New Hampshire, I find no need for
> 4WD/AWD, ABS or TCS. Pick the vehicle you want, equip it properly and
> learn to control it under challenging conditions. Good driving skills
> and preparation trump technology every time.

Does that mean I'm not safe since I run all-season tires during all
seasons? :-)

I agree with what Brian says, only adding that snow tires are one more
thing I find no need for. I do find a need for 4WD as it is hard to
plow snow with only 2WD. :-)


Matt

Re: 2006 Sonata traction control vs 4WD?
 

Brian Nystrom wrote:
> pdp11@techie.com wrote:
>
>> Anyone have experience yet with how the traction control in the 2006
>> Sonata actually performs in the snow? We are considering the purchase
>> of a new Hyundai vehicle, and are actually looking to replace an older
>> 4-wheel-drive car (AMC Eagle) that was recently totalled in an
>> accident. We're in the Northeast and have a fairly long, uphill
>> driveway that the Eagle was able to navigate with ease even after a
>> fairly heavy snowstorm.
>
>
> If you want to be safe in the winter there are three things you should do:
>
> 1- Install good quality snow tires on all four wheels. Nokian tires are
> my personal favorite.
>
> 2- Practice driving on slippery surfaces. Relying on technology is not a
> good idea, as it will often let you down when you need it most.
>
> 3- Drive sensibly. No car is foolproof and if you exceed the available
> traction, you'll be in trouble no matter what "gee wiz" technology your
> car is equipped with.
>
> After 31 winters of driving in New Hampshire, I find no need for
> 4WD/AWD, ABS or TCS. Pick the vehicle you want, equip it properly and
> learn to control it under challenging conditions. Good driving skills
> and preparation trump technology every time.

Does that mean I'm not safe since I run all-season tires during all
seasons? :-)

I agree with what Brian says, only adding that snow tires are one more
thing I find no need for. I do find a need for 4WD as it is hard to
plow snow with only 2WD. :-)


Matt

Re: 2006 Sonata traction control vs 4WD?
 

Brian Nystrom wrote:
> pdp11@techie.com wrote:
>
>> Anyone have experience yet with how the traction control in the 2006
>> Sonata actually performs in the snow? We are considering the purchase
>> of a new Hyundai vehicle, and are actually looking to replace an older
>> 4-wheel-drive car (AMC Eagle) that was recently totalled in an
>> accident. We're in the Northeast and have a fairly long, uphill
>> driveway that the Eagle was able to navigate with ease even after a
>> fairly heavy snowstorm.
>
>
> If you want to be safe in the winter there are three things you should do:
>
> 1- Install good quality snow tires on all four wheels. Nokian tires are
> my personal favorite.
>
> 2- Practice driving on slippery surfaces. Relying on technology is not a
> good idea, as it will often let you down when you need it most.
>
> 3- Drive sensibly. No car is foolproof and if you exceed the available
> traction, you'll be in trouble no matter what "gee wiz" technology your
> car is equipped with.
>
> After 31 winters of driving in New Hampshire, I find no need for
> 4WD/AWD, ABS or TCS. Pick the vehicle you want, equip it properly and
> learn to control it under challenging conditions. Good driving skills
> and preparation trump technology every time.

Does that mean I'm not safe since I run all-season tires during all
seasons? :-)

I agree with what Brian says, only adding that snow tires are one more
thing I find no need for. I do find a need for 4WD as it is hard to
plow snow with only 2WD. :-)


Matt

Re: 2006 Sonata traction control vs 4WD?
 

pdp11@techie.com wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>>Keep in mind that traction control only helps maximize the traction
>>available to the FWD car, it isn't magic and certainly can't match the
>>traction that the additional two wheels will provide in an AWD vehicle.
>
>
> Yes, I do understand that, I'm just trying to determine whether the
> Sonata with traction control would be 'good enough' for our purposes.

That is really hard to say without seeing your driveway or knowing more
about how much snow you get and how often. I'd say the Sonata ranks
right up there with other FWD vehicles I own or have owned. I honestly
haven't used the ESC enough to know if it adds much value. I'm guessing
it doesn't add much to hill climbing traction. If you've driven in snow
for as long as it sounds like you have, then you are like me and
probably are pretty skilled at maintaining the maximum speed possible
and slowly backing off on the throttle as you climb your driveway to
minimize wheel-spin. ESC may help a little in this regard, but I really
had to mash the throttle intentionally to even get the ESC to kick in on
my new Sonata. It likely has more benefit in skid recovery than in
straight-line hill climbing capability.


Matt

Re: 2006 Sonata traction control vs 4WD?
 

pdp11@techie.com wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>>Keep in mind that traction control only helps maximize the traction
>>available to the FWD car, it isn't magic and certainly can't match the
>>traction that the additional two wheels will provide in an AWD vehicle.
>
>
> Yes, I do understand that, I'm just trying to determine whether the
> Sonata with traction control would be 'good enough' for our purposes.

That is really hard to say without seeing your driveway or knowing more
about how much snow you get and how often. I'd say the Sonata ranks
right up there with other FWD vehicles I own or have owned. I honestly
haven't used the ESC enough to know if it adds much value. I'm guessing
it doesn't add much to hill climbing traction. If you've driven in snow
for as long as it sounds like you have, then you are like me and
probably are pretty skilled at maintaining the maximum speed possible
and slowly backing off on the throttle as you climb your driveway to
minimize wheel-spin. ESC may help a little in this regard, but I really
had to mash the throttle intentionally to even get the ESC to kick in on
my new Sonata. It likely has more benefit in skid recovery than in
straight-line hill climbing capability.


Matt

Re: 2006 Sonata traction control vs 4WD?
 

pdp11@techie.com wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>>Keep in mind that traction control only helps maximize the traction
>>available to the FWD car, it isn't magic and certainly can't match the
>>traction that the additional two wheels will provide in an AWD vehicle.
>
>
> Yes, I do understand that, I'm just trying to determine whether the
> Sonata with traction control would be 'good enough' for our purposes.

That is really hard to say without seeing your driveway or knowing more
about how much snow you get and how often. I'd say the Sonata ranks
right up there with other FWD vehicles I own or have owned. I honestly
haven't used the ESC enough to know if it adds much value. I'm guessing
it doesn't add much to hill climbing traction. If you've driven in snow
for as long as it sounds like you have, then you are like me and
probably are pretty skilled at maintaining the maximum speed possible
and slowly backing off on the throttle as you climb your driveway to
minimize wheel-spin. ESC may help a little in this regard, but I really
had to mash the throttle intentionally to even get the ESC to kick in on
my new Sonata. It likely has more benefit in skid recovery than in
straight-line hill climbing capability.


Matt

Re: 2006 Sonata traction control vs 4WD?
 

pdp11@techie.com wrote:

> BillyGoat wrote:
>
>>Don't forget that with the shiftronic Xmission, you can force it to start in
>>2nd gear. That helps a lot to start off in snow/ice.
>
>
> Just like the old Rambler "Flash-O-Matic" transmission with its "D1"
> and "D2" positions. (For 1st gear and 2nd gear starts, respectively.)
> Everything old is new again!

Actually, many automatics still let you start out in 2 or even 3rd.

I just noticed your "handle" of pdp11. You do mean THE PDR-11, right?
That sure brings back old memories. I still remember way too many
RSX-11 commands...


Matt

Re: 2006 Sonata traction control vs 4WD?
 

pdp11@techie.com wrote:

> BillyGoat wrote:
>
>>Don't forget that with the shiftronic Xmission, you can force it to start in
>>2nd gear. That helps a lot to start off in snow/ice.
>
>
> Just like the old Rambler "Flash-O-Matic" transmission with its "D1"
> and "D2" positions. (For 1st gear and 2nd gear starts, respectively.)
> Everything old is new again!

Actually, many automatics still let you start out in 2 or even 3rd.

I just noticed your "handle" of pdp11. You do mean THE PDR-11, right?
That sure brings back old memories. I still remember way too many
RSX-11 commands...


Matt