Bad tune-up...
 

So I took my car in this morning to get it tuned up, in order to help
it pass the smog test. At least the oil change, I thought, might help.

It was running fine when I took it in to the garage today, though, and
when I picked it up afterwards (plugs oil filter and air filter and all
that) (Hyundai Accent GT fuel injected engine) it seemed to be running
maybe a bit better, not much difference, but it was running fine,
before.

So I drove it about 5 miles to work and parked it, then 3 hours later I
drove it to lunch. As soon as I started it to go to lunch, the CHECK
ENGINE light came on AND it was running rough, almost dying at stop
lights.

I am going to take it back to the mechanic tomorrow, but I want to
know: What could have happened? Why did it only start running bad AFTER
I left the garage and let it sit for 3 hours? What might be wrong with
it that he would have done to cause the check engine light to come on
and run rough, only AFTER sitting in the garage at work for 3 hours?

What is the mechanic likely to say? Can he in any way claim it was NOT
a result of something he did wrong?

What can you tell me to help me resolve this without my paying more
money, getting taken for more parts, etc.? I'm looking for knowledge,
here; knowledge is power.

Re: Bad tune-up...
 

Jim wrote:
> So I took my car in this morning to get it tuned up, in order to help
> it pass the smog test. At least the oil change, I thought, might help.
>
> It was running fine when I took it in to the garage today, though, and
> when I picked it up afterwards (plugs oil filter and air filter and all
> that) (Hyundai Accent GT fuel injected engine) it seemed to be running
> maybe a bit better, not much difference, but it was running fine,
> before.
>
> So I drove it about 5 miles to work and parked it, then 3 hours later I
> drove it to lunch. As soon as I started it to go to lunch, the CHECK
> ENGINE light came on AND it was running rough, almost dying at stop
> lights.
>
> I am going to take it back to the mechanic tomorrow, but I want to
> know: What could have happened? Why did it only start running bad AFTER
> I left the garage and let it sit for 3 hours? What might be wrong with
> it that he would have done to cause the check engine light to come on
> and run rough, only AFTER sitting in the garage at work for 3 hours?
>
> What is the mechanic likely to say? Can he in any way claim it was NOT
> a result of something he did wrong?
>
> What can you tell me to help me resolve this without my paying more
> money, getting taken for more parts, etc.? I'm looking for knowledge,
> here; knowledge is power.

It's quite possible that one of the plug wires wasn't connected properly
and came loose. Although it's less likely, one of the plugs may have
cracked or broken. Also, check the oil level to make sure that there
wasn't a leak and the engine didn't run dry.

These are some of the reasons that everyone should learn to do simple
maintentance like this for themselves. You save yourself a bunch of
money and you know exactly what was done, how it was done and what parts
were used.

Re: Bad tune-up...
 

Jim wrote:
> So I took my car in this morning to get it tuned up, in order to help
> it pass the smog test. At least the oil change, I thought, might help.
>
> It was running fine when I took it in to the garage today, though, and
> when I picked it up afterwards (plugs oil filter and air filter and all
> that) (Hyundai Accent GT fuel injected engine) it seemed to be running
> maybe a bit better, not much difference, but it was running fine,
> before.
>
> So I drove it about 5 miles to work and parked it, then 3 hours later I
> drove it to lunch. As soon as I started it to go to lunch, the CHECK
> ENGINE light came on AND it was running rough, almost dying at stop
> lights.
>
> I am going to take it back to the mechanic tomorrow, but I want to
> know: What could have happened? Why did it only start running bad AFTER
> I left the garage and let it sit for 3 hours? What might be wrong with
> it that he would have done to cause the check engine light to come on
> and run rough, only AFTER sitting in the garage at work for 3 hours?
>
> What is the mechanic likely to say? Can he in any way claim it was NOT
> a result of something he did wrong?
>
> What can you tell me to help me resolve this without my paying more
> money, getting taken for more parts, etc.? I'm looking for knowledge,
> here; knowledge is power.

It's quite possible that one of the plug wires wasn't connected properly
and came loose. Although it's less likely, one of the plugs may have
cracked or broken. Also, check the oil level to make sure that there
wasn't a leak and the engine didn't run dry.

These are some of the reasons that everyone should learn to do simple
maintentance like this for themselves. You save yourself a bunch of
money and you know exactly what was done, how it was done and what parts
were used.

Re: Bad tune-up...
 

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:pmYif.3$GA2.2@trndny02...

>
> These are some of the reasons that everyone should learn to do simple
> maintentance like this for themselves. You save yourself a bunch of
> money and you know exactly what was done, how it was done and what parts
> were used.

Thank you Mr. Wizard! Really - no sarcasm. It is a shame that today's
consumer wants to be just that - a consumer and not invest in any real
understanding of the products that they buy. Big ticket items like a car
almost scream for some level of understanding. But... folks want to go plop
their money down, drive around town, and not even understand something as
basic as an oil change and then come looking for "knowledge" when something
is broken. Knowledge does not come instantly through usenet posts. It's
accumulated. Advice and information that contribute to knowledge can come
from a forum like this, but knowledge is just not one of those things that
the instant gratification generation can demand. Just a little bit of
investment on the part of the owner would go so far in reducing the number
of foolish "my car is broke now, what's wrong with it and did the
mechanic/dealer break it or what should I do?" posts.

In the case of the OP, I suspect the mechanic did not use winterized air in
the air cleaner.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Re: Bad tune-up...
 

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:pmYif.3$GA2.2@trndny02...

>
> These are some of the reasons that everyone should learn to do simple
> maintentance like this for themselves. You save yourself a bunch of
> money and you know exactly what was done, how it was done and what parts
> were used.

Thank you Mr. Wizard! Really - no sarcasm. It is a shame that today's
consumer wants to be just that - a consumer and not invest in any real
understanding of the products that they buy. Big ticket items like a car
almost scream for some level of understanding. But... folks want to go plop
their money down, drive around town, and not even understand something as
basic as an oil change and then come looking for "knowledge" when something
is broken. Knowledge does not come instantly through usenet posts. It's
accumulated. Advice and information that contribute to knowledge can come
from a forum like this, but knowledge is just not one of those things that
the instant gratification generation can demand. Just a little bit of
investment on the part of the owner would go so far in reducing the number
of foolish "my car is broke now, what's wrong with it and did the
mechanic/dealer break it or what should I do?" posts.

In the case of the OP, I suspect the mechanic did not use winterized air in
the air cleaner.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Re: Bad tune-up...
 

Take it back like you indicated and see what they say.

If the mechanic is honest, he will tell you what the problem is and will
be honest about whether it's related to the repairs. If it's unrelated,
he can and should claim it was not a result of something he did. While
odds lean heavily toward the tune-up, there are still many things
unrelated that could have caused the issue.

Not much knowledge to impart until I know what the issue was and exactly
what was done on the initial visit.

Re: Bad tune-up...
 

Take it back like you indicated and see what they say.

If the mechanic is honest, he will tell you what the problem is and will
be honest about whether it's related to the repairs. If it's unrelated,
he can and should claim it was not a result of something he did. While
odds lean heavily toward the tune-up, there are still many things
unrelated that could have caused the issue.

Not much knowledge to impart until I know what the issue was and exactly
what was done on the initial visit.

Re: Bad tune-up...
 

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:05:25 GMT, Brian Nystrom
<brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:


>
>It's quite possible that one of the plug wires wasn't connected properly
>and came loose. Although it's less likely, one of the plugs may have
>cracked or broken. Also, check the oil level to make sure that there
>wasn't a leak and the engine didn't run dry.
>
>These are some of the reasons that everyone should learn to do simple
>maintentance like this for themselves. You save yourself a bunch of
>money and you know exactly what was done, how it was done and what parts
>were used.
Actually, the sad part is, I do know how to change the oil and plugs
and air filters and so on. But I have no place to do it; my apt. does
not allow working on cars, and I know no one with a home nearby where
I could do it. I also do not have a 2nd car I can use to go to the
parts store once I get the car taken apart and realize I need this or
that.

Also there is the issue that when I did do these things for myself,
sometimes it was more hassle than it was worth. Like, if a tiny part
dropped on the ground, or broke, or if I discovered a part I needed, I
had to walk 2 miles to the nearest parts store to get one, they didn't
have it and I had to walk to a 2nd one... next thing you know, that
"simple half hour job" becomes a 4-5 hour ordeal, simply because of
not having the resources that an Auto Repair place has.

Another thing is having ALL the tools that help to make the job
easier. The average Joe does not have all the little things that the
mechanic has, to make the job easier to perform, for example a
hydraulic rack to put the car up on. What about recycling the oil? If
you have to put it in something and drive it across town to dispose of
it, there goes the gas money and the time for that...

So, the fact is, I quit doing these things because it was just too
much trouble and required too much time sometimes. And I make good
money and my free time is more important than the $19.95 I spend on an
oil and filter change. A tune up, yes, is overpriced, and I do resent
paying $225 for the hour or so they spend giving my car a tune-up, but
still and yet, I don't have the place to do it. If I had my own home
with a garage, I might consider doing things like this.

One more issue is that some of these compact cars are so tight, it is
just a pain in the ass to get in the engine compartment to work on
them.

Re: Bad tune-up...
 

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:05:25 GMT, Brian Nystrom
<brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:


>
>It's quite possible that one of the plug wires wasn't connected properly
>and came loose. Although it's less likely, one of the plugs may have
>cracked or broken. Also, check the oil level to make sure that there
>wasn't a leak and the engine didn't run dry.
>
>These are some of the reasons that everyone should learn to do simple
>maintentance like this for themselves. You save yourself a bunch of
>money and you know exactly what was done, how it was done and what parts
>were used.
Actually, the sad part is, I do know how to change the oil and plugs
and air filters and so on. But I have no place to do it; my apt. does
not allow working on cars, and I know no one with a home nearby where
I could do it. I also do not have a 2nd car I can use to go to the
parts store once I get the car taken apart and realize I need this or
that.

Also there is the issue that when I did do these things for myself,
sometimes it was more hassle than it was worth. Like, if a tiny part
dropped on the ground, or broke, or if I discovered a part I needed, I
had to walk 2 miles to the nearest parts store to get one, they didn't
have it and I had to walk to a 2nd one... next thing you know, that
"simple half hour job" becomes a 4-5 hour ordeal, simply because of
not having the resources that an Auto Repair place has.

Another thing is having ALL the tools that help to make the job
easier. The average Joe does not have all the little things that the
mechanic has, to make the job easier to perform, for example a
hydraulic rack to put the car up on. What about recycling the oil? If
you have to put it in something and drive it across town to dispose of
it, there goes the gas money and the time for that...

So, the fact is, I quit doing these things because it was just too
much trouble and required too much time sometimes. And I make good
money and my free time is more important than the $19.95 I spend on an
oil and filter change. A tune up, yes, is overpriced, and I do resent
paying $225 for the hour or so they spend giving my car a tune-up, but
still and yet, I don't have the place to do it. If I had my own home
with a garage, I might consider doing things like this.

One more issue is that some of these compact cars are so tight, it is
just a pain in the ass to get in the engine compartment to work on
them.

Re: Bad tune-up...
 

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:20:49 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net> wrote:


>
>In the case of the OP, I suspect the mechanic did not use winterized air in
>the air cleaner.
)-; Nice try, but I ain't that dumb!

Re: Bad tune-up...
 

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:20:49 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net> wrote:


>
>In the case of the OP, I suspect the mechanic did not use winterized air in
>the air cleaner.
)-; Nice try, but I ain't that dumb!

Re: Bad tune-up...
 

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:58:42 -0500, "hyundaitech"
<notpublic@not.public.com> wrote:

>Take it back like you indicated and see what they say.
>
>If the mechanic is honest, he will tell you what the problem is and will
>be honest about whether it's related to the repairs. If it's unrelated,
>he can and should claim it was not a result of something he did. While
>odds lean heavily toward the tune-up, there are still many things
>unrelated that could have caused the issue.
>
>Not much knowledge to impart until I know what the issue was and exactly
>what was done on the initial visit.
Thanks. I was just looking for some ideas as to what MIGHT cause it,
as much for my own knowledge in general, as for this particular case.

Fortunately it turned out to just be something loose that the mechanic
found right away and fixed easily and without cost to me. Thanks for
replying, though.

Re: Bad tune-up...
 

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:58:42 -0500, "hyundaitech"
<notpublic@not.public.com> wrote:

>Take it back like you indicated and see what they say.
>
>If the mechanic is honest, he will tell you what the problem is and will
>be honest about whether it's related to the repairs. If it's unrelated,
>he can and should claim it was not a result of something he did. While
>odds lean heavily toward the tune-up, there are still many things
>unrelated that could have caused the issue.
>
>Not much knowledge to impart until I know what the issue was and exactly
>what was done on the initial visit.
Thanks. I was just looking for some ideas as to what MIGHT cause it,
as much for my own knowledge in general, as for this particular case.

Fortunately it turned out to just be something loose that the mechanic
found right away and fixed easily and without cost to me. Thanks for
replying, though.

Re: Bad tune-up...
 

DanKaye wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:05:25 GMT, Brian Nystrom
> <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>It's quite possible that one of the plug wires wasn't connected properly
>>and came loose. Although it's less likely, one of the plugs may have
>>cracked or broken. Also, check the oil level to make sure that there
>>wasn't a leak and the engine didn't run dry.
>>
>>These are some of the reasons that everyone should learn to do simple
>>maintentance like this for themselves. You save yourself a bunch of
>>money and you know exactly what was done, how it was done and what parts
>>were used.
>
> Actually, the sad part is, I do know how to change the oil and plugs
> and air filters and so on. But I have no place to do it; my apt. does
> not allow working on cars, and I know no one with a home nearby where
> I could do it.

For the 10 minutes it would take to change plugs and wires, I doubt
anyone would notice.

> I also do not have a 2nd car I can use to go to the
> parts store once I get the car taken apart and realize I need this or
> that.
>
> Also there is the issue that when I did do these things for myself,
> sometimes it was more hassle than it was worth. Like, if a tiny part
> dropped on the ground, or broke, or if I discovered a part I needed, I
> had to walk 2 miles to the nearest parts store to get one, they didn't
> have it and I had to walk to a 2nd one... next thing you know, that
> "simple half hour job" becomes a 4-5 hour ordeal, simply because of
> not having the resources that an Auto Repair place has.

That's true of more susbstantial repairs, but not basic maintenance.

> Another thing is having ALL the tools that help to make the job
> easier.

The tools to do basic maintenance will fit in a shoebox.

> The average Joe does not have all the little things that the
> mechanic has, to make the job easier to perform, for example a
> hydraulic rack to put the car up on.

Are we going to have a rational discussion or are you going to be
ridiculous? No one needs a lift to do basic maintenance on a car.

> What about recycling the oil? If
> you have to put it in something and drive it across town to dispose of
> it, there goes the gas money and the time for that...

Any gas station that does service has an oil reclamation tank.

> So, the fact is, I quit doing these things because it was just too
> much trouble and required too much time sometimes. And I make good
> money and my free time is more important than the $19.95 I spend on an
> oil and filter change. A tune up, yes, is overpriced, and I do resent
> paying $225 for the hour or so they spend giving my car a tune-up, but
> still and yet, I don't have the place to do it. If I had my own home
> with a garage, I might consider doing things like this.

If you're making good money, why not buy a house with a garage instead
of stuffing your cash in some "slumlord's" pocket? It's the best
investment you'll ever make, for a lot of reasons. Being able to work on
your own car is just one of them.

> One more issue is that some of these compact cars are so tight, it is
> just a pain in the ass to get in the engine compartment to work on
> them.

Again, that's not generally true of basic maintenance. Yeah, getting to
the starter or replacing a timing belt can be a bit of a hassle, but
that's not what we're talking about.

Re: Bad tune-up...
 

DanKaye wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:05:25 GMT, Brian Nystrom
> <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>It's quite possible that one of the plug wires wasn't connected properly
>>and came loose. Although it's less likely, one of the plugs may have
>>cracked or broken. Also, check the oil level to make sure that there
>>wasn't a leak and the engine didn't run dry.
>>
>>These are some of the reasons that everyone should learn to do simple
>>maintentance like this for themselves. You save yourself a bunch of
>>money and you know exactly what was done, how it was done and what parts
>>were used.
>
> Actually, the sad part is, I do know how to change the oil and plugs
> and air filters and so on. But I have no place to do it; my apt. does
> not allow working on cars, and I know no one with a home nearby where
> I could do it.

For the 10 minutes it would take to change plugs and wires, I doubt
anyone would notice.

> I also do not have a 2nd car I can use to go to the
> parts store once I get the car taken apart and realize I need this or
> that.
>
> Also there is the issue that when I did do these things for myself,
> sometimes it was more hassle than it was worth. Like, if a tiny part
> dropped on the ground, or broke, or if I discovered a part I needed, I
> had to walk 2 miles to the nearest parts store to get one, they didn't
> have it and I had to walk to a 2nd one... next thing you know, that
> "simple half hour job" becomes a 4-5 hour ordeal, simply because of
> not having the resources that an Auto Repair place has.

That's true of more susbstantial repairs, but not basic maintenance.

> Another thing is having ALL the tools that help to make the job
> easier.

The tools to do basic maintenance will fit in a shoebox.

> The average Joe does not have all the little things that the
> mechanic has, to make the job easier to perform, for example a
> hydraulic rack to put the car up on.

Are we going to have a rational discussion or are you going to be
ridiculous? No one needs a lift to do basic maintenance on a car.

> What about recycling the oil? If
> you have to put it in something and drive it across town to dispose of
> it, there goes the gas money and the time for that...

Any gas station that does service has an oil reclamation tank.

> So, the fact is, I quit doing these things because it was just too
> much trouble and required too much time sometimes. And I make good
> money and my free time is more important than the $19.95 I spend on an
> oil and filter change. A tune up, yes, is overpriced, and I do resent
> paying $225 for the hour or so they spend giving my car a tune-up, but
> still and yet, I don't have the place to do it. If I had my own home
> with a garage, I might consider doing things like this.

If you're making good money, why not buy a house with a garage instead
of stuffing your cash in some "slumlord's" pocket? It's the best
investment you'll ever make, for a lot of reasons. Being able to work on
your own car is just one of them.

> One more issue is that some of these compact cars are so tight, it is
> just a pain in the ass to get in the engine compartment to work on
> them.

Again, that's not generally true of basic maintenance. Yeah, getting to
the starter or replacing a timing belt can be a bit of a hassle, but
that's not what we're talking about.