Just begun to change the plugs on the XG300
 

I have one question, I took of one coil, the rightmost one, and I
smelled oil maybe a little burnt. Inside the walls of the shaft where
the plug sits, there is oil, there is oil on the outside of the part
of the coil that connects to the spark plug and when I put the socket
down the shaft, the sides got coated with oil. Should there be oil in
there and could that have caused the misfires? Why is that oil in
there. It's not gasoline.

If it's Ok to have the oil in the shaft, how ard is it to get a spark
plug out? How hard do you have to push the arm of the socket? I
haven't done this in a while and the car is a 2001 with low mileage
but stayed outside always.

I can see that the plenum on the XG300 is not the same as the plenum
on the Santa Fe. It seems as though there are two top sections.

Alan

Re: Just begun to change the plugs on the XG300
 

Ok, I got the plug out and it is drenched in oil. That can't be right
and now I don't want to put a new plug in there because of the oil in
there.

Now what?

Let me remind you that the engine sounded ok once the car got past
idle before I brought it in to this Hyundai dealer and I bet it needed
another air sensor and they wanted to turn it into a big paying job.
When I told the service manager that I don't believe him, I bet he
threw some oil in the shaft.

Can there be another explanation, given the engine sounded fine before
Hyundai got there hands on the car and it was just idling badly
because of the sensor or because the computer had to re-initialize
because of the new battery and they screwed around to make things
worse? How do you get the oil out of there?



On Sun, 17 May 2009 15:33:49 -0400, Alan Calan <alancalan@excite.com>
wrote:

>I have one question, I took of one coil, the rightmost one, and I
>smelled oil maybe a little burnt. Inside the walls of the shaft where
>the plug sits, there is oil, there is oil on the outside of the part
>of the coil that connects to the spark plug and when I put the socket
>down the shaft, the sides got coated with oil. Should there be oil in
>there and could that have caused the misfires? Why is that oil in
>there. It's not gasoline.
>
>If it's Ok to have the oil in the shaft, how ard is it to get a spark
>plug out? How hard do you have to push the arm of the socket? I
>haven't done this in a while and the car is a 2001 with low mileage
>but stayed outside always.
>
>I can see that the plenum on the XG300 is not the same as the plenum
>on the Santa Fe. It seems as though there are two top sections.
>
>Alan

Re: Just begun to change the plugs on the XG300
 

On May 17, 3:33 pm, Alan Calan <alanca...@excite.com> wrote:
> I have one question, I took of one coil, the rightmost one, and I
> smelled oil maybe a little burnt. Inside the walls of the shaft where
> the plug sits, there is oil, there is oil on the outside of the part
> of the coil that connects to the spark plug and when I put the socket
> down the shaft, the sides got coated with oil. Should there be oil in
> there and could that have caused the misfires? Why is that oil in
> there. It's not gasoline.


Around each spark plug tube, there's a circular gasket that seals its
junction with the valve cover. This should not cause a misfire unless
it has severly eroded the insulation of the coil boot, which isn't
likely. To repair, you'll need to remove the valve cover and replace
the gaskets. I do not recall whether the tube seals are separate or
made as part of the valve cover gasket

>
> If it's Ok to have the oil in the shaft, how ard is it to get a spark
> plug out? How hard do you have to push the arm of the socket? I
> haven't done this in a while and the car is a 2001 with low mileage
> but stayed outside always.

The spark plug should unscrew easily. Expect a reasonable amount of
force to break it loose from being tightened, then come out with
little effort the rest of the way.

Re: Just begun to change the plugs on the XG300
 

OK, but, the car was not misfiring before Hyundai got there hands on
it. I know what misfiring is becaus eit is doing that now. What was
happening was the same thing that happened a few months earlier when
they replaced the air sensor. The car was trying to stall but once it
got passed the idle stage it was as smooth as can be.


So, either the car needed another air flow sensor or the almost
stalling came from the computer having to reset itself.

I read about the gaskets but what is the likelihood that that happened
just when the battery died. Before the battery died the car was
running great and it was smooth and quiet. Immediatelyt after I
picked up the car from Hyundai, it sounded like a bus. Therefore, if
the guy was pissed at me for not falling for his lies, how difficult
would it have been for him to take a little oin and put it down the
shaft.

How do you get that oil out of the shaft? Could the seal have been
broken from overtightening the plug on purpose?




On Sun, 17 May 2009 12:51:37 -0700 (PDT), hyundaitech
<hyundaimech@gmail.com> wrote:

>On May 17, 3:33 pm, Alan Calan <alanca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> I have one question, I took of one coil, the rightmost one, and I
>> smelled oil maybe a little burnt. Inside the walls of the shaft where
>> the plug sits, there is oil, there is oil on the outside of the part
>> of the coil that connects to the spark plug and when I put the socket
>> down the shaft, the sides got coated with oil. Should there be oil in
>> there and could that have caused the misfires? Why is that oil in
>> there. It's not gasoline.
>
>
>Around each spark plug tube, there's a circular gasket that seals its
>junction with the valve cover. This should not cause a misfire unless
>it has severly eroded the insulation of the coil boot, which isn't
>likely. To repair, you'll need to remove the valve cover and replace
>the gaskets. I do not recall whether the tube seals are separate or
>made as part of the valve cover gasket
>
>>
>> If it's Ok to have the oil in the shaft, how ard is it to get a spark
>> plug out? How hard do you have to push the arm of the socket? I
>> haven't done this in a while and the car is a 2001 with low mileage
>> but stayed outside always.
>
>The spark plug should unscrew easily. Expect a reasonable amount of
>force to break it loose from being tightened, then come out with
>little effort the rest of the way.

Re: Just begun to change the plugs on the XG300
 

One more thing, there is so much oil it is all the way up the plug,
passed the threads and metal parts and there are spots on the ceramic
part too, it's drenched, and if you look down the shaft, and because
it is sitting on an angle the oil pooled to the bottom or south part
ofthe shaft.

Couldn't the oil have come from the top, is in poured in? Is it
easier to remove the valve cover than to get to those back plugs?



On Sun, 17 May 2009 12:51:37 -0700 (PDT), hyundaitech
<hyundaimech@gmail.com> wrote:

>On May 17, 3:33 pm, Alan Calan <alanca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> I have one question, I took of one coil, the rightmost one, and I
>> smelled oil maybe a little burnt. Inside the walls of the shaft where
>> the plug sits, there is oil, there is oil on the outside of the part
>> of the coil that connects to the spark plug and when I put the socket
>> down the shaft, the sides got coated with oil. Should there be oil in
>> there and could that have caused the misfires? Why is that oil in
>> there. It's not gasoline.
>
>
>Around each spark plug tube, there's a circular gasket that seals its
>junction with the valve cover. This should not cause a misfire unless
>it has severly eroded the insulation of the coil boot, which isn't
>likely. To repair, you'll need to remove the valve cover and replace
>the gaskets. I do not recall whether the tube seals are separate or
>made as part of the valve cover gasket
>
>>
>> If it's Ok to have the oil in the shaft, how ard is it to get a spark
>> plug out? How hard do you have to push the arm of the socket? I
>> haven't done this in a while and the car is a 2001 with low mileage
>> but stayed outside always.
>
>The spark plug should unscrew easily. Expect a reasonable amount of
>force to break it loose from being tightened, then come out with
>little effort the rest of the way.

Re: Just begun to change the plugs on the XG300
 

It started raining here so I checked another plug and it was drenched
and socket was drenched. When I told them I didn't believe them and I
want to pick up the car, they said to give them about an hour to get
the car back together. How could the car be apart and they wouldn't
notice this? If you tell someone they have to spend $550 for spark
plugs and wires, shouldn't you look at one first before jumping to
that conclusion?

The question now is, am I better off getting three new plugs, not the
best kind, the $3.00 kind and putting it all back and bring it
someplace else? I can't see me changing those valve gaskets because I
don't know what to unhook and then I will never get it all back. Is
there any way to get the oil out of the shaft? Will I have trouble
getting the socket off the plug or should I take out the rubber nipple
that catches the plug? When I first tried to loosen the plug and I
felt the resistance, I tried to pull the socket off but it remained on
the plug and the extension piece came out of the socket.

On the two plugs I took out the is a ring of brown at the beginning of
the ceramic part of the plug maybe a 1/4 inch in thickness.


On Sun, 17 May 2009 12:51:37 -0700 (PDT), hyundaitech
<hyundaimech@gmail.com> wrote:

>On May 17, 3:33 pm, Alan Calan <alanca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> I have one question, I took of one coil, the rightmost one, and I
>> smelled oil maybe a little burnt. Inside the walls of the shaft where
>> the plug sits, there is oil, there is oil on the outside of the part
>> of the coil that connects to the spark plug and when I put the socket
>> down the shaft, the sides got coated with oil. Should there be oil in
>> there and could that have caused the misfires? Why is that oil in
>> there. It's not gasoline.
>
>
>Around each spark plug tube, there's a circular gasket that seals its
>junction with the valve cover. This should not cause a misfire unless
>it has severly eroded the insulation of the coil boot, which isn't
>likely. To repair, you'll need to remove the valve cover and replace
>the gaskets. I do not recall whether the tube seals are separate or
>made as part of the valve cover gasket
>
>>
>> If it's Ok to have the oil in the shaft, how ard is it to get a spark
>> plug out? How hard do you have to push the arm of the socket? I
>> haven't done this in a while and the car is a 2001 with low mileage
>> but stayed outside always.
>
>The spark plug should unscrew easily. Expect a reasonable amount of
>force to break it loose from being tightened, then come out with
>little effort the rest of the way.

Re: Just begun to change the plugs on the XG300
 

Craftsman at Sears sells locking extensions that prevent the
socket from disconnecting from the extension unless you
press a release button. I always use one when working on
deeply set spark plugs.

You can clean off the spark plugs with brake cleaner or
carb cleaner and they'll be good as ever. No need to buy
cheap plugs. (If you do, buy NGK.)

Spray a little brake cleaner on a clean rag, wrap it around
a dowel or something that won't damage the bore and clean
the bores as best you can.

Put everything back together and check it again in a few
days for oil. There should be none. If it's soaked again,
you'll need to replace the valve cover gasket before you
replace the plugs. The valve cover gasket gets brittle
with age, and if the cover had to be removed, it wouldn't
necessarily seal well when put back together.

"Alan Calan" <alancalan@excite.com> wrote in message
news:u5u0151b9e8d60i24bb7shocqau3qspn9e@4ax.com...
> It started raining here so I checked another plug and it was drenched
> and socket was drenched. When I told them I didn't believe them and I
> want to pick up the car, they said to give them about an hour to get
> the car back together. How could the car be apart and they wouldn't
> notice this? If you tell someone they have to spend $550 for spark
> plugs and wires, shouldn't you look at one first before jumping to
> that conclusion?
>
> The question now is, am I better off getting three new plugs, not the
> best kind, the $3.00 kind and putting it all back and bring it
> someplace else? I can't see me changing those valve gaskets because I
> don't know what to unhook and then I will never get it all back. Is
> there any way to get the oil out of the shaft? Will I have trouble
> getting the socket off the plug or should I take out the rubber nipple
> that catches the plug? When I first tried to loosen the plug and I
> felt the resistance, I tried to pull the socket off but it remained on
> the plug and the extension piece came out of the socket.
>
> On the two plugs I took out the is a ring of brown at the beginning of
> the ceramic part of the plug maybe a 1/4 inch in thickness.
>
>
> On Sun, 17 May 2009 12:51:37 -0700 (PDT), hyundaitech
> <hyundaimech@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On May 17, 3:33 pm, Alan Calan <alanca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>> I have one question, I took of one coil, the rightmost one, and I
>>> smelled oil maybe a little burnt. Inside the walls of the shaft where
>>> the plug sits, there is oil, there is oil on the outside of the part
>>> of the coil that connects to the spark plug and when I put the socket
>>> down the shaft, the sides got coated with oil. Should there be oil in
>>> there and could that have caused the misfires? Why is that oil in
>>> there. It's not gasoline.
>>
>>
>>Around each spark plug tube, there's a circular gasket that seals its
>>junction with the valve cover. This should not cause a misfire unless
>>it has severly eroded the insulation of the coil boot, which isn't
>>likely. To repair, you'll need to remove the valve cover and replace
>>the gaskets. I do not recall whether the tube seals are separate or
>>made as part of the valve cover gasket
>>
>>>
>>> If it's Ok to have the oil in the shaft, how ard is it to get a spark
>>> plug out? How hard do you have to push the arm of the socket? I
>>> haven't done this in a while and the car is a 2001 with low mileage
>>> but stayed outside always.
>>
>>The spark plug should unscrew easily. Expect a reasonable amount of
>>force to break it loose from being tightened, then come out with
>>little effort the rest of the way.

Re: Just begun to change the plugs on the XG300
 

On May 17, 4:15 pm, Alan Calan <alanca...@excite.com> wrote:
> I read about the gaskets but what is the likelihood that that happened
> just when the battery died. Before the battery died the car was
> running great and it was smooth and quiet. Immediatelyt after I
> picked up the car from Hyundai, it sounded like a bus. Therefore, if
> the guy was pissed at me for not falling for his lies, how difficult
> would it have been for him to take a little oin and put it down the
> shaft.

I think you're paranoid, Alan. I've heard of mechanics sabotaging
customer's cars but never seen it. Look at the oil in the tubes. Is
it nice and golden like it just came out of the bottle? If not, I
doubt anyone put it there. New oil is much more convenient to obtain
than used oil. Even if a mechanic were sabotaging your car, which I
doubt, he'd not go to any more effort than necessary to do it.

> How do you get that oil out of the shaft? Could the seal have been
> broken from overtightening the plug on purpose?

The oil will run down into the cylinder when you remove the plug.
Instead of replaing the plugs all at one time, remove all of them.
Then crank the engine for 15 seconds or so with the plugs out (and
nothing that can get sucked into the engine blocking the intake
runners). This will blow the oil back out of the plug holes. You'll
have a bit of a mess to clean up, but this will prevent any engine
damage in the event you get too much oil into the cylinder.

The spark plug doesn't contact the tube seal with the valve cover
gasket, so there's no way removing/reinstalling the plug would have
damaged it.

Re: Just begun to change the plugs on the XG300
 

On May 17, 4:23 pm, Alan Calan <alanca...@excite.com> wrote:
> One more thing, there is so much oil it is all the way up the plug,
> passed the threads and metal parts and there are spots on the ceramic
> part too, it's drenched, and if you look down the shaft, and because
> it is sitting on an angle the oil pooled to the bottom or south part
> ofthe shaft.
>
> Couldn't the oil have come from the top, is in poured in? Is it
> easier to remove the valve cover than to get to those back plugs?

The oil is leaking in from the seals between the valve cover and the
plug tubes. This is not an uncommon problem on an older car. Age and
heat deteriorate the rubber in the gaskets. It's not poured in; it's
leaking in.

It's easier to remove the front valve cover than access the back
plugs. It's harder to remove the back valve cover than access the
rear plugs. Basically, removing the valve covers requires all the
steps of replacing the plugs (except the actual removal and
installation of the plugs), removing additional brackets from the rear
of the engine, and removing the bolts holding the valve covers in
place. If you're capable of doing the six plugs, you should be able
to do the valve covers.

Keep in mind I'm not convinced you're up to either task. Based on
your recent posts, I'd suggest having someone experienced with basic
automotive maintenance present to be a guide and mentor. It's very
difficult via internet for us to make sure we're guiding you
correctly. On the other hand, having someone present will enhance the
understanding of both parties.

Re: Just begun to change the plugs on the XG300
 

On May 17, 5:03 pm, Alan Calan <alanca...@excite.com> wrote:
> It started raining here so I checked another plug and it was drenched
> and socket was drenched. When I told them I didn't believe them and I
> want to pick up the car, they said to give them about an hour to get
> the car back together. How could the car be apart and they wouldn't
> notice this? If you tell someone they have to spend $550 for spark
> plugs and wires, shouldn't you look at one first before jumping to
> that conclusion?

We don't know what they took apart and put together. But ordinarily,
yes, one should look at least at one spark plugs to get an idea of
condition.

> The question now is, am I better off getting three new plugs, not the
> best kind, the $3.00 kind and putting it all back and bring it
> someplace else? I can't see me changing those valve gaskets because I
> don't know what to unhook and then I will never get it all back. Is
> there any way to get the oil out of the shaft? Will I have trouble
> getting the socket off the plug or should I take out the rubber nipple
> that catches the plug? When I first tried to loosen the plug and I
> felt the resistance, I tried to pull the socket off but it remained on
> the plug and the extension piece came out of the socket.

A pair of long-handled needlenose pliers works well to remove the
socket from the plug. If you don't have any, you can remove the
rubber from the socket and then remove the socket and spark plugs with
a magnet, but not having the rubber insert will increase the
likelihood of breaking or cracking the plug porcelain.

Replacing the valve cover gaskets doesn't take significantly more work
than the plugs. If you anticipate having trouble with the gasket, you
should also anticipate having trouble with the plugs.

> On the two plugs I took out the is a ring of brown at the beginning of
> the ceramic part of the plug maybe a 1/4 inch in thickness.

This is a common occurrence on plugs with high mileage. It doesn't
indicate anything else wrong, and isn't there because of the oil. If
you insert one of the plugs into a coil, you'll see that the brown
area coincides with the exposed area of the porcelain.