Tom

Can anyone give me a techical reason why the 'ABS' and 'TCS Off'
indicators have both become permanently illuminated on my Sonata V6 /
2.5 (2000).

The car seems to drive normally.

I'm an experienced electronics engineer so happy to do some serious
diagnostics.

Ed Pawlowski

"Tom" <usenet@neumena.com> wrote in message
news:n3ik35pl0rcnup6jjaei8qcvdmo92uhnet@4ax.com...
> Can anyone give me a techical reason why the 'ABS' and 'TCS Off'
> indicators have both become permanently illuminated on my Sonata V6 /
> 2.5 (2000).
>
> The car seems to drive normally.
>
> I'm an experienced electronics engineer so happy to do some serious
> diagnostics.

It will drive normally, but if you need the abs, it won't be there. The
brake systems are designed to function in normal mode if any electronics
fail.

You may have a bad wheel sensor or some other malady. Hook up the diagnostic
computer and get the code. Many auto parts will do it for you.

Tom

>It will drive normally, but if you need the abs, it won't be there. The
>brake systems are designed to function in normal mode if any electronics
>fail.
>
>You may have a bad wheel sensor or some other malady. Hook up the diagnostic
>computer and get the code. Many auto parts will do it for you.

Fail-safe would make sense. I would like to understand the common
elements of the ABS and the TCS that would cause my 'TCS-OFF' and
'ABS' indicators to both become permanently illunmninated at the same
time.

The wheel sensor you mention - Could you tell me roughly where to
locate it so I can trace its wiring ?

Do you know what technology the sensor uses; magnet/hall-effect - reed
switch!!

THanks
>

Ed Pawlowski

"Tom" <usenet@neumena.com> wrote in message
news:kajm35dfovm2m4rl3u742ne7vv7u0mgrjq@4ax.com...
> >It will drive normally, but if you need the abs, it won't be there. The
>>brake systems are designed to function in normal mode if any electronics
>>fail.
>>
>>You may have a bad wheel sensor or some other malady. Hook up the
>>diagnostic
>>computer and get the code. Many auto parts will do it for you.
>
> Fail-safe would make sense. I would like to understand the common
> elements of the ABS and the TCS that would cause my 'TCS-OFF' and
> 'ABS' indicators to both become permanently illunmninated at the same
> time.
>
> The wheel sensor you mention - Could you tell me roughly where to
> locate it so I can trace its wiring ?
>
> Do you know what technology the sensor uses; magnet/hall-effect - reed
> switch!!
>
> THanks
>>

The ABS and TCS use some parts in common. You can get more information as
to location and so forth by signing up for a free account at
www.hmaservice.com You need IE and may have to download a free viewer from
Adobe to see the drawings.

Mike Marlow

"Tom" <usenet@neumena.com> wrote in message
news:kajm35dfovm2m4rl3u742ne7vv7u0mgrjq@4ax.com...

>
> Fail-safe would make sense. I would like to understand the common
> elements of the ABS and the TCS that would cause my 'TCS-OFF' and
> 'ABS' indicators to both become permanently illunmninated at the same
> time.
>
> The wheel sensor you mention - Could you tell me roughly where to
> locate it so I can trace its wiring ?
>
> Do you know what technology the sensor uses; magnet/hall-effect - reed
> switch!!
>

Typically, it's part of the wheel bearing. Easy to see - there is a wire
running to the bearing. Magnetic in nature, and it just creates a square
wave pulse. The common elements are simply the sensor. Both ABS and TCS
operate using the input from these sensors, one to prevent lock up and the
other to attempt to maintain proper relationship between the rotation of
each tire.

The other day I picked up a nail or something in the inside sidewall of my
passenger side front tire. Had to have another tire ordered in at the place
where I purchased these tires. So, in the meantime, I drove around with the
space saver spare mounted up there. ABS and TCS lights burning the entire
time. Got the new tire mounted and poof - they were out. The space saver
is a different size tire than the real stuff, so the wheel on that side is
rolling at a different speed than the others. Throws the system off.
Heck - even the speedo was off. It showed almost 10mph faster than what my
GPS showed me traveling.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net

hyundaitech

On Jun 18, 10:05 am, Tom <use...@neumena.com> wrote:
> Can anyone give me a techical reason why the 'ABS' and 'TCS Off'
> indicators have both become permanently illuminated on my Sonata V6 /
> 2.5 (2000).
>
> The car seems to drive normally.
>
> I'm an experienced electronics engineer so happy to do some serious
> diagnostics.

Typically, this would be the lack of any sort of input that would
cause both the ABS and TCS to not be able to operate properly. If you
make a couple panic stops, you'll see that the ABS is no longer
functional. Both the ABS and TCS are controlled by the same module
and actuators. Since you're an electronics engineer, you can probably
infer a very good understanding of how the system works by consulting
the schematic at www.hmaservice.com as Edwin has suggested.

Checking individual components and wiring until you find an issue is
not an efficient way to go about solving this problem. There are
simply too many possibilities. Normally, I'd suggest checking the
wheel speed sensor tone wheels (on the axle or wheel hub) since it's
quick to do if you can get under the car. But since you don't seem to
have a good idea of what you'd be looking at, that's likely a futile
exercise. The place to start is to take the car to a shop capable of
diagnosing the ABS/TCS system. They'll read the codes and inspect the
specific items that could potentially cause that particular code.
Once you know the specific problem, you're in a better position to
determine whether it's a repair you'll be able to do yourself.

Tom

Hmm, before I can put the oscilloscope on the wheel sensor signals I
must get the schematic for the vehicle from HMASERVICE when I figure
what my Sonata V6 2.5 (year 200) is in terms of the choice made
available, vis:

Sonata EF
Sonata NF
Sonata Y2
Sonata Y3

Then, I recall that one of the following links leads to schematics

ETM
DTC
TSB

hyundaitech

On Jun 23, 4:14 am, Tom <use...@neumena.com> wrote:
> Hmm, before I can put the oscilloscope on the wheel sensor signals I
> must get the schematic for the vehicle from HMASERVICE when I figure
> what my Sonata V6 2.5 (year 200) is in terms of the choice made
> available, vis:
>
> Sonata EF
> Sonata NF
> Sonata Y2
> Sonata Y3
>
> Then, I recall that one of the following links leads to schematics
>
> ETM
> DTC
> TSB

Years 1999 to 2005 are Sonata EF. Once you choose one of the models,
the page will delete all years which do not apply.

The ETM (Electrical Troubleshooting Manual) leads to schematics. DTC
= Diagnostic Trouble Codes. TSB = Techncial Service Bulletin,

Tom

>Years 1999 to 2005 are Sonata EF. Once you choose one of the models,
>the page will delete all years which do not apply.
>
>The ETM (Electrical Troubleshooting Manual) leads to schematics. DTC
>= Diagnostic Trouble Codes. TSB = Techncial Service Bulletin,


Thanks for that advice.

Today, in an effort to obtain the CAN diagnostic error code I took the
car to the garage only to be told by the service manager that
hooking-up their diagnostic device would amount to 'at least an hour's
work' - I didn't get the code today

I have noticed that my TCS-OFF' and 'ABD' indicators only illuminate
after the car has moved a few metres so there is perhaps a good
indicator of a movement sensor input going on here.

I obtained the schematics for the TYCS/ABS and once I have located the
ABS module I will make some diagnostic measurements.

Was interested to read one respondent refer to the toothed wheel part
of the inductive pickup as a 'tone wheel' - a fellow Hammond player I
thought! Correct tech!

Tom

This afternoon I located the four wheel inductive pickups but their
wiring disappears into a loom so I haven't located the ABS electronics
module yet. Any suggestions of where it is to be found? I figure that
this module is thelogical place for me to check all the wheel sensor
signals.

Mike Marlow

"Tom" <usenet@neumena.com> wrote in message
news:qaf5455ndpcc9co8d6j9rdlsgpspsn8irs@4ax.com...

> This afternoon I located the four wheel inductive pickups but their
> wiring disappears into a loom so I haven't located the ABS electronics
> module yet. Any suggestions of where it is to be found? I figure that
> this module is thelogical place for me to check all the wheel sensor
> signals.

Have you created a user account on the free Hyundai web site with all of the
manuals, diagrams, etc. yet, as was suggested to you in reply to your
initial question? You can flog yourself all day long, trying to muscle
through this, or you can cheat and use some of the documentation that is
provided to avoid a lot of that frustration.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net

Tom

>Have you created a user account on the free Hyundai web site with all of the...
>manuals, diagrams, etc

Yes, I registered with that site some years ago and have been using it
tho' my Browsers (Firefox and IE8) are giving me so much trouble with
Adobe's SVG format I'm finding it easier to trudge through the hard
way!).

I haven't managed to get it to show me the whereabouts of the ABS
module, Can you tell me?

hyundaitech

On Jun 25, 9:09 am, Tom <use...@neumena.com> wrote:
> >Have you created a user account on the free Hyundai web site with all ofthe...
> >manuals, diagrams, etc
>
> Yes, I registered with that site some years ago and have been using it
> tho' my Browsers (Firefox and IE8) are giving me so much trouble with
> Adobe's SVG format I'm finding it easier to trudge through the hard
> way!).
>
> I haven't managed to get it to show me the whereabouts of the ABS
> module, Can you tell me?

You'll find the ABS/TCS module on the right side of the car near the
firewall above the alternator.

The fact that your car must move for the warning lamps to illuminate
suggests that it's not a purely electrical issue, i.e. a resistance
check won't turn it up. It could be a faulty signal-- are all your
tires the same size?-- or a performance-test issue. The ABS/TCS
performs a quick self-test shortly after the vehicle begins moving.

Tom

>You'll find the ABS/TCS module on the right side of the car near the
>firewall above the alternator.

I am pretty sure I found it. A metal box with a group of brake pipes
leading from one side, a 10cm diamter black motor visible to another
side of the assembly and a substantial mutiway loom connector with a
cunning retaining mechanism.

I would like to get the pinout for that connector so I can check the
various power and sensor signals are getting that far.

>The fact that your car must move for the warning lamps to illuminate
>suggests that it's not a purely electrical issue, i.e. a resistance
>check won't turn it up. It could be a faulty signal-- are all your
>tires the same size?-- or a performance-test issue.

I measured about 3.5k ohms on the front/right and front/left sensors
but despite fishing about the boot/trunk, haven't managed to find
those in-line connections yet.

I checked the tyres, they seem ok. I guess the ABS/TCS computer has to
allow some amount of wheel speed discrepency, at least for a short
period, or perhaps at low speed. Otherwise they would set off the
alarm on a tight radious manouvre such as parking, for instance?

>... The ABS/TCS
>performs a quick self-test shortly after the vehicle begins moving.

Ah, I wonder if that is what's happening, and that test is failing and
bring on the 'TCS OFF' abd 'ABS' indicators?

Tom

Success!

All the wheel sensors are two wire devices and all have in-line
connectors just after their cable gromits bring their cable through
the body to the inside of the vehicle. The rear connections are pretty
hard to get at but accessed by folding down the rear seat back and
unscrewing a two part flat’ish panel that runs along the back shelf
and descends down on either side: This reveals the connections.

I measured each sensor at just under 1.4k ohms.

So starting the car and a short test drive and the ABS indicator is no
longer illuminated.

It’s looking to me like a connector/contact related problem. If I had
to guess I would suggest the visible corrosion-like residue on the
multiway connector fitted to the ABS control computer / actuator.

Thanks to all on this helpful folk on this group for their assistance.