Used Cobalt or Accent
 

I have a chance to purchase either a 2006 Chevy Cobalt or 2006 Hyundai
Accent for the same amout of money. Both cars are used but are both in
excellent, like new condition. I will primarily use the car as a
commuter vehicle. Overall cost of ownership including gas mileage,
repair, durability, etc. are important to me.

The Chevy is bigger and feels relatively more substantial. The Hyundai
gets better gas mileage.

Which one is likely to have a lower cost of ownership in the long term
(ten years)? My apology for cross posting.

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

Jack <buywheels@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I have a chance to purchase either a 2006 Chevy Cobalt or 2006 Hyundai
>Accent for the same amout of money. Both cars are used but are both in
>excellent, like new condition. I will primarily use the car as a
>commuter vehicle. Overall cost of ownership including gas mileage,
>repair, durability, etc. are important to me.
>
>The Chevy is bigger and feels relatively more substantial. The Hyundai
>gets better gas mileage.
>
>Which one is likely to have a lower cost of ownership in the long term
>(ten years)? My apology for cross posting.

Whichever car was treated better by the original owner. Ask for the
maintenance records. Whichever car has better maintenance records, buy
that one.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

Jack <buywheels@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1180030916.632282.256950
@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

> I have a chance to purchase either a 2006 Chevy Cobalt or 2006 Hyundai
> Accent for the same amout of money. Both cars are used but are both in
> excellent, like new condition. I will primarily use the car as a
> commuter vehicle. Overall cost of ownership including gas mileage,
> repair, durability, etc. are important to me.
>
> The Chevy is bigger and feels relatively more substantial. The Hyundai
> gets better gas mileage.
>
> Which one is likely to have a lower cost of ownership in the long term
> (ten years)? My apology for cross posting.
>


OK! first...what are the milages of each car?
second...is there a complete service history for each car?
third....What warranty is there for each car?...is there a 5year warranty
unlimited milage for the accent for example?

I like driving in my car

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

All things being equal...go with the Cobalt. Bigger, better resale, both are
good vehicles.


"Jack" <buywheels@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180030916.632282.256950@h2g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
>I have a chance to purchase either a 2006 Chevy Cobalt or 2006 Hyundai
> Accent for the same amout of money. Both cars are used but are both in
> excellent, like new condition. I will primarily use the car as a
> commuter vehicle. Overall cost of ownership including gas mileage,
> repair, durability, etc. are important to me.
>
> The Chevy is bigger and feels relatively more substantial. The Hyundai
> gets better gas mileage.
>
> Which one is likely to have a lower cost of ownership in the long term
> (ten years)? My apology for cross posting.
>

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

On May 24, 2:21 pm, Jack <buywhe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have a chance to purchase either a 2006 Chevy Cobalt or 2006 Hyundai
> Accent for the same amout of money. Both cars are used but are both in
> excellent, like new condition. I will primarily use the car as a
> commuter vehicle. Overall cost of ownership including gas mileage,
> repair, durability, etc. are important to me.
>
> The Chevy is bigger and feels relatively more substantial. The Hyundai
> gets better gas mileage.
>
> Which one is likely to have a lower cost of ownership in the long term
> (ten years)? My apology for cross posting.

It also depends on what you do for a living. If you work on a Union
job site or in construction some people can get very nasty toward
buying a car not made in the U.S., even if the U.S. doesn't make a car
worth buying and a lot of the "American" cars have less domestic parts
and assembly then others.
Bill

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

"Jack" <buywheels@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180030916.632282.256950@h2g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
>I have a chance to purchase either a 2006 Chevy Cobalt or 2006 Hyundai
> Accent for the same amout of money. Both cars are used but are both in
> excellent, like new condition. I will primarily use the car as a
> commuter vehicle. Overall cost of ownership including gas mileage,
> repair, durability, etc. are important to me.
>
> The Chevy is bigger and feels relatively more substantial. The Hyundai
> gets better gas mileage.
>
> Which one is likely to have a lower cost of ownership in the long term
> (ten years)? My apology for cross posting.

It is hard to predict what will be in ten years but right now gas mileage is
a big factor to consider. My choice would be the Accent, for durability and
mileage. If resale after ten years is a factor then the Cobalt MAY be a
better choice. I have a 05 Accent that I purchased new as a commuter car
and IMO it was a great choice, After 30,000 miles it has been completely
trouble free, something I cannot say about my last two new car purchases, A
1999 Ford F250 and a 2000 Mercury Grand Marquis.

Jack Cassidy

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

Indeed, there are politics in car buying/car parking.
Eg, german cars in synogogues.
Japanese cars in Filipino or chinese strongholds.
At my wife's job, two filipino's got into near-fisticuffs over one's
purchase of a japanese car.
American blacks/"minorities" shouldn't be too keen on japanese cars, either,
given recent statements.

I forgot the context, but some companies doesn't even allow a certain makes
(or non-makes) on their premisses--could be Merkin automakers.

The Japanese continue their juggernauting on Merkin throats:
Nissan w/ $2,000 headlights (maxima)
Honda w/ a $400 Yuasa motorcycle battery in a car (Fit)
God knows what else.
12 sets of Nissan headlights, or 40 Honda batteries, and you have a new
goddamm car.

But, ain't gonna change.
We (the (M)asses) are little more than puppets on a string, with occasional
erections.
The fact that Paris Hilton is allowed to live, much less thrive on TV, is
the death knell of our society.
At least give her a hysterectomy.
DAT would be an inneresting episode.

Me, I forget about politics and just plaster confederate flags all over
m'pickup--and on my shotgun rack.

Investment advice: Vaseline, Prep H.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"billyboy24d" <billyboy24d@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1180101025.487056.314450@w5g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
> On May 24, 2:21 pm, Jack <buywhe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I have a chance to purchase either a 2006 Chevy Cobalt or 2006 Hyundai
>> Accent for the same amout of money. Both cars are used but are both in
>> excellent, like new condition. I will primarily use the car as a
>> commuter vehicle. Overall cost of ownership including gas mileage,
>> repair, durability, etc. are important to me.
>>
>> The Chevy is bigger and feels relatively more substantial. The Hyundai
>> gets better gas mileage.
>>
>> Which one is likely to have a lower cost of ownership in the long term
>> (ten years)? My apology for cross posting.
>
> It also depends on what you do for a living. If you work on a Union
> job site or in construction some people can get very nasty toward
> buying a car not made in the U.S., even if the U.S. doesn't make a car
> worth buying and a lot of the "American" cars have less domestic parts
> and assembly then others.
> Bill
>

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

I'm not much of a fan of GM cars, but the Cobalt is an exception. I rented
a lot of cars in the spring of 2006, and the Cobalt was the only one of
them I really liked. I drove it thousands of miles, and never had any
problems with it. It was comfortable, almost fun to drive, and got amazing
fuel economy, consistently.

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

CR gives the Cobalt dismal ratings, esp. reliability, and overall mpg of
only 23 for the 4 cyl.
They like the Accent better, altho apparently it's too new to rate fully.
But CR listed 28 mpg's--big diff vs. the cobalt.

Not really a fan of CR, but , they are about the only show in town.
Don't know how accurate their mpg ratings are, but hopefully they are at
least correct on a *relative* comparison basis.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"Tom Y" <tomy@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns993B6A121B329tomy548121@140.99.99.130...
> I'm not much of a fan of GM cars, but the Cobalt is an exception. I
> rented
> a lot of cars in the spring of 2006, and the Cobalt was the only one of
> them I really liked. I drove it thousands of miles, and never had any
> problems with it. It was comfortable, almost fun to drive, and got
> amazing
> fuel economy, consistently.

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

"Jack Cassidy" <Jacapat2@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> If resale after ten years is a factor then the Cobalt MAY be a better
> choice.

Yes, in ten years it may be worth $15 while the Accent is worth only $12.

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news:HuD5i.10$eO5.4@trndny08...
>
> "Jack Cassidy" <Jacapat2@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>>
>> If resale after ten years is a factor then the Cobalt MAY be a better
>> choice.
>
> Yes, in ten years it may be worth $15 while the Accent is worth only $12.

Yeah but that $30

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news:HuD5i.10$eO5.4@trndny08...
>
> "Jack Cassidy" <Jacapat2@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>>
>> If resale after ten years is a factor then the Cobalt MAY be a better
>> choice.
>
> Yes, in ten years it may be worth $15 while the Accent is worth only $12.
Yeah but that $3.00 may be important to some people. :c)
If my Accent gives me good service for 10 years I won't care if it's only
worth 12 cents, I'll put it in the trash and go buy another. When I
purchased mine they literally took it off the truck, took off the plastic
protecting the paint, washed it and filled the gas tank and I drove it away.
It has not been back to the dealer for anything since. No adjustments, no
tweaking on anything, Made a believer out of me.

Jack Cassidy

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

Tom Y wrote:
> I'm not much of a fan of GM cars, but the Cobalt is an exception. I rented
> a lot of cars in the spring of 2006, and the Cobalt was the only one of
> them I really liked. I drove it thousands of miles, and never had any
> problems with it. It was comfortable, almost fun to drive, and got amazing
> fuel economy, consistently.

Interesting. I test drove a Cobalt before buying my Sonata and it was
the most uncomfortable car I've driven since my 79 Chevette. Actually,
it was worse than the Chevette. The seat was hard as a rock and the car
road like a buckboard.

Matt

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

"Jack Cassidy" <Jacapat2@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>> Yes, in ten years it may be worth $15 while the Accent is worth only $12.
> Yeah but that $3.00 may be important to some people. :c)
> If my Accent gives me good service for 10 years I won't care if it's only
> worth 12 cents, I'll put it in the trash and go buy another.

I keep cars until they are used up. I've had a couple towed to the junk
yard but I "traded in" my 91 Regal. The book value if in good condition
was $850 according to KBB. Problem is, I'd have to spend about $1200 to get
it to be worth that. Dealer gave me $100 for it. I figured it was just
transportation to go pick up the new one. I managed to even work out the
gas so that the warning light for low fuel came on about two miles from the
dealer.

Sonata now has 15200 and still perfect.

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

On 2007-05-24, Jack <buywheels@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have a chance to purchase either a 2006 Chevy Cobalt or 2006 Hyundai
> Accent for the same amout of money. Both cars are used but are both in
> excellent, like new condition. I will primarily use the car as a
> commuter vehicle. Overall cost of ownership including gas mileage,
> repair, durability, etc. are important to me.

They are two different size classes, hardly comparable to each
other. But I wouldn't get the Cobalt. Consumer Reports' reliability
ratings say that the Cobalt is horribly bad in this department. It's
so bad that the defect rate is literally off their charts. Absolute
rock bottom. In the basement. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole
for fear the pole will melt.

The current Accent is unrated, but at least you got that 5yr/60K
bumper-to-bumper warranty.

Chris

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

Edwin:

So tell us the rest of your life story you A.H. Do you really think we all
care about your problems.

--
P

"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news:YjK5i.3249$u56.352@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net ...
>
> "Jack Cassidy" <Jacapat2@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> Yes, in ten years it may be worth $15 while the Accent is worth only
>>> $12.
>> Yeah but that $3.00 may be important to some people. :c)
>> If my Accent gives me good service for 10 years I won't care if it's only
>> worth 12 cents, I'll put it in the trash and go buy another.
>
> I keep cars until they are used up. I've had a couple towed to the junk
> yard but I "traded in" my 91 Regal. The book value if in good condition
> was $850 according to KBB. Problem is, I'd have to spend about $1200 to
> get it to be worth that. Dealer gave me $100 for it. I figured it was
> just transportation to go pick up the new one. I managed to even work out
> the gas so that the warning light for low fuel came on about two miles
> from the dealer.
>
> Sonata now has 15200 and still perfect.
>

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

"p" <dontemail@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:M6w6i.4376$Nj2.1839@newsfe12.lga...
> Edwin:
>
> So tell us the rest of your life story you A.H. Do you really think we
> all care about your problems.

Since you took the time to reply, you must have enjoyed reading my post.
Thank you for your interest. Chapter 2 will be posted later today.

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

On 24 May 2007 11:21:56 -0700, Jack <buywheels@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I have a chance to purchase either a 2006 Chevy Cobalt or 2006 Hyundai
>Accent for the same amout of money. Both cars are used but are both in
>excellent, like new condition. I will primarily use the car as a
>commuter vehicle. Overall cost of ownership including gas mileage,
>repair, durability, etc. are important to me.
>
>The Chevy is bigger and feels relatively more substantial. The Hyundai
>gets better gas mileage.
>
>Which one is likely to have a lower cost of ownership in the long term
>(ten years)? My apology for cross posting.

Hyundai = 10 yr bumper to bumper warranty to original owner - they do
it to show the quality

GM - 5 year drive train to try to convince us they are getting serious
about quality if they are still here to cover the warranty.

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

nothermark wrote:
> On 24 May 2007 11:21:56 -0700, Jack <buywheels@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a chance to purchase either a 2006 Chevy Cobalt or 2006 Hyundai
>> Accent for the same amout of money. Both cars are used but are both in
>> excellent, like new condition. I will primarily use the car as a
>> commuter vehicle. Overall cost of ownership including gas mileage,
>> repair, durability, etc. are important to me.
>>
>> The Chevy is bigger and feels relatively more substantial. The Hyundai
>> gets better gas mileage.
>>
>> Which one is likely to have a lower cost of ownership in the long term
>> (ten years)? My apology for cross posting.
>
> Hyundai = 10 yr bumper to bumper warranty to original owner - they do
> it to show the quality
>
> GM - 5 year drive train to try to convince us they are getting serious
> about quality if they are still here to cover the warranty.

If I HAD to pick between an Accent and a Cobalt, I'd take a Cobalt.

I test drove an 06 Accent with my mother when she was car shopping. It
drove and felt and sounded a lot like her old 86 Excel, right down to
the door chime. Considering how much of a turd that car was I cannot
recommend a Hyundai to anyone. (and yes, I'm using the same logic that
people use who once drove an 82 Chevette and deduced all GM's were crap.)

Frankly, if you're looking for an econobox commuter car, I'd suggest a
Corolla or Civic. Neither car has anything resembling a personality,
but generally seem to run for about 10 years with minimal investment.
And I'm a GM guy...I'm yet to be convinced the Cobalts will hold up.

If you want a car with a personality... that's a different question.

TCO is tricky - when I was car shopping in the fall for a family car I
spent a lot of time adding up fuel costs, insurance costs, and estimated
repair costs for a lot of cars... and ended up buying the car that had
the features I wanted anyway. (Subaru Legacy wagon with a manual
transmission and AWD.)

FWIW, in Manitoba, here's a comparison of insurance rates for basic
coverage for your cars (base cars, base coverage) (www.mpi.mb.ca)
06 Cobalt: $1612
06 Accent: $1504
06 Civic: $1707
06 Legacy Wagon: $1504

Ray

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

"Ray" <ray@nospam.example.com> wrote in message
> I test drove an 06 Accent with my mother when she was car shopping. It
> drove and felt and sounded a lot like her old 86 Excel, right down to the
> door chime. Considering how much of a turd that car was I cannot
> recommend a Hyundai to anyone.

Fortunately, there has been major improvements by Hyundai over the past 20
years. The old Excel certainly was a turd but if they kept making cars like
that, they'd not be in business today. It is not easy to overcome those
early impressions though.

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Ray" <ray@nospam.example.com> wrote in message
>> I test drove an 06 Accent with my mother when she was car shopping. It
>> drove and felt and sounded a lot like her old 86 Excel, right down to the
>> door chime. Considering how much of a turd that car was I cannot
>> recommend a Hyundai to anyone.
>
> Fortunately, there has been major improvements by Hyundai over the past 20
> years. The old Excel certainly was a turd but if they kept making cars like
> that, they'd not be in business today. It is not easy to overcome those
> early impressions though.
>
>

fwiw, I still have it in my back yard. My mom finally parked it in 2002
when it was consuming equal amounts of gas and oil. I'm going to start
it up this year so I can laugh one last time and then recycle it. It is
the car I took my driver's test in...

So, if anyone wants parts off an 86 Hyundai Excel GL, let me know... you
pay shipping...

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

On Mon, 28 May 2007 11:56:03 -0500, Ray <ray@nospam.example.com>
wrote:

>Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "Ray" <ray@nospam.example.com> wrote in message
>>> I test drove an 06 Accent with my mother when she was car shopping. It
>>> drove and felt and sounded a lot like her old 86 Excel, right down to the
>>> door chime. Considering how much of a turd that car was I cannot
>>> recommend a Hyundai to anyone.
>>
>> Fortunately, there has been major improvements by Hyundai over the past 20
>> years. The old Excel certainly was a turd but if they kept making cars like
>> that, they'd not be in business today. It is not easy to overcome those
>> early impressions though.
>>
>>
>
>fwiw, I still have it in my back yard. My mom finally parked it in 2002
>when it was consuming equal amounts of gas and oil. I'm going to start
>it up this year so I can laugh one last time and then recycle it. It is
>the car I took my driver's test in...
>
>So, if anyone wants parts off an 86 Hyundai Excel GL, let me know... you
>pay shipping...

I need an automatic temp control head and the electronic memory power
seat controls.

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>
>> So, if anyone wants parts off an 86 Hyundai Excel GL, let me know... you
>> pay shipping...
>
> I need an automatic temp control head and the electronic memory power
> seat controls.

lol.
it's an 86 Excel, which means it has manual heater controls (no AC) and
manual seats.

those are probably two of the only things working left on the car.

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

On Mon, 28 May 2007 08:51:17 -0500, Ray <ray@nospam.example.com>
wrote:

>nothermark wrote:
>> On 24 May 2007 11:21:56 -0700, Jack <buywheels@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a chance to purchase either a 2006 Chevy Cobalt or 2006 Hyundai
>>> Accent for the same amout of money. Both cars are used but are both in
>>> excellent, like new condition. I will primarily use the car as a
>>> commuter vehicle. Overall cost of ownership including gas mileage,
>>> repair, durability, etc. are important to me.
>>>
>>> The Chevy is bigger and feels relatively more substantial. The Hyundai
>>> gets better gas mileage.
>>>
>>> Which one is likely to have a lower cost of ownership in the long term
>>> (ten years)? My apology for cross posting.
>>
>> Hyundai = 10 yr bumper to bumper warranty to original owner - they do
>> it to show the quality
>>
>> GM - 5 year drive train to try to convince us they are getting serious
>> about quality if they are still here to cover the warranty.
>
>If I HAD to pick between an Accent and a Cobalt, I'd take a Cobalt.
>
>I test drove an 06 Accent with my mother when she was car shopping. It
>drove and felt and sounded a lot like her old 86 Excel, right down to
>the door chime. Considering how much of a turd that car was I cannot
>recommend a Hyundai to anyone. (and yes, I'm using the same logic that
>people use who once drove an 82 Chevette and deduced all GM's were crap.)
>
>Frankly, if you're looking for an econobox commuter car, I'd suggest a
>Corolla or Civic. Neither car has anything resembling a personality,
>but generally seem to run for about 10 years with minimal investment.
>And I'm a GM guy...I'm yet to be convinced the Cobalts will hold up.
>
>If you want a car with a personality... that's a different question.
>
>TCO is tricky - when I was car shopping in the fall for a family car I
>spent a lot of time adding up fuel costs, insurance costs, and estimated
>repair costs for a lot of cars... and ended up buying the car that had
>the features I wanted anyway. (Subaru Legacy wagon with a manual
>transmission and AWD.)
>
>FWIW, in Manitoba, here's a comparison of insurance rates for basic
>coverage for your cars (base cars, base coverage) (www.mpi.mb.ca)
>06 Cobalt: $1612
>06 Accent: $1504
>06 Civic: $1707
>06 Legacy Wagon: $1504
>
>Ray


You really don't get it. GM is losing their ass because they are like
microshaft. They own(ed) the market so long they could produce junk
and people bought it. I can now buy much better cars for much less
money with better engineering and often with more US content. GM and
Ford have both made a point of making their small cars low end junk to
justify the sale price of the bigger but not that much more expensive
to build full size stuff. But you will recommend them over somebody
that took quality seriously and fixed it more than 10 years ago.

Oh, and BTW, that includes Honda as their maintenance schedule is
really a scheduled rebuild the last time I looked.

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

nothermark wrote:
> On Mon, 28 May 2007 08:51:17 -0500, Ray <ray@nospam.example.com>
> wrote:
>
>> nothermark wrote:
>>> On 24 May 2007 11:21:56 -0700, Jack <buywheels@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a chance to purchase either a 2006 Chevy Cobalt or 2006 Hyundai
>>>> Accent for the same amout of money. Both cars are used but are both in
>>>> excellent, like new condition. I will primarily use the car as a
>>>> commuter vehicle. Overall cost of ownership including gas mileage,
>>>> repair, durability, etc. are important to me.
>>>>
>>>> The Chevy is bigger and feels relatively more substantial. The Hyundai
>>>> gets better gas mileage.
>>>>
>>>> Which one is likely to have a lower cost of ownership in the long term
>>>> (ten years)? My apology for cross posting.
>>> Hyundai = 10 yr bumper to bumper warranty to original owner - they do
>>> it to show the quality
>>>
>>> GM - 5 year drive train to try to convince us they are getting serious
>>> about quality if they are still here to cover the warranty.
>> If I HAD to pick between an Accent and a Cobalt, I'd take a Cobalt.
>>
>> I test drove an 06 Accent with my mother when she was car shopping. It
>> drove and felt and sounded a lot like her old 86 Excel, right down to
>> the door chime. Considering how much of a turd that car was I cannot
>> recommend a Hyundai to anyone. (and yes, I'm using the same logic that
>> people use who once drove an 82 Chevette and deduced all GM's were crap.)
>>
>> Frankly, if you're looking for an econobox commuter car, I'd suggest a
>> Corolla or Civic. Neither car has anything resembling a personality,
>> but generally seem to run for about 10 years with minimal investment.
>> And I'm a GM guy...I'm yet to be convinced the Cobalts will hold up.
>>
>> If you want a car with a personality... that's a different question.
>>
>> TCO is tricky - when I was car shopping in the fall for a family car I
>> spent a lot of time adding up fuel costs, insurance costs, and estimated
>> repair costs for a lot of cars... and ended up buying the car that had
>> the features I wanted anyway. (Subaru Legacy wagon with a manual
>> transmission and AWD.)
>>
>> FWIW, in Manitoba, here's a comparison of insurance rates for basic
>> coverage for your cars (base cars, base coverage) (www.mpi.mb.ca)
>> 06 Cobalt: $1612
>> 06 Accent: $1504
>> 06 Civic: $1707
>> 06 Legacy Wagon: $1504
>>
>> Ray
>
>
> You really don't get it. GM is losing their ass because they are like
> microshaft. They own(ed) the market so long they could produce junk
> and people bought it. I can now buy much better cars for much less
> money with better engineering and often with more US content. GM and
> Ford have both made a point of making their small cars low end junk to
> justify the sale price of the bigger but not that much more expensive
> to build full size stuff. But you will recommend them over somebody
> that took quality seriously and fixed it more than 10 years ago.
>
> Oh, and BTW, that includes Honda as their maintenance schedule is
> really a scheduled rebuild the last time I looked.

Did you read my post? If I had to choose between a Cobalt and an Accent
for an automotive appliance, I'd recommend a Civic or a Corolla.

FWIW, I bought a Subaru Legacy in the fall because I needed a wagon or a
minivan, and wanted awd and a stick shift.

Frankly, nothing compares to driving my Trans Am. If you've never been
slideways on a road course at 120mph, you'll never understand.

Ray

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

A "scheduled rebuild" in what way? Replacement of more parts than other
makes?
Which parts?
Does this imply poor construction?
Is this scheduled rebuild on Honda's or the owner's dime?
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"nothermark" <nothermark@not.here> wrote in message
news:72pq53touruu4uljqq5m85h4ne46rm9e0b@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 May 2007 08:51:17 -0500, Ray <ray@nospam.example.com>
> wrote:
>
>>nothermark wrote:
>>> On 24 May 2007 11:21:56 -0700, Jack <buywheels@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a chance to purchase either a 2006 Chevy Cobalt or 2006 Hyundai
>>>> Accent for the same amout of money. Both cars are used but are both in
>>>> excellent, like new condition. I will primarily use the car as a
>>>> commuter vehicle. Overall cost of ownership including gas mileage,
>>>> repair, durability, etc. are important to me.
>>>>
>>>> The Chevy is bigger and feels relatively more substantial. The Hyundai
>>>> gets better gas mileage.
>>>>
>>>> Which one is likely to have a lower cost of ownership in the long term
>>>> (ten years)? My apology for cross posting.
>>>
>>> Hyundai = 10 yr bumper to bumper warranty to original owner - they do
>>> it to show the quality
>>>
>>> GM - 5 year drive train to try to convince us they are getting serious
>>> about quality if they are still here to cover the warranty.
>>
>>If I HAD to pick between an Accent and a Cobalt, I'd take a Cobalt.
>>
>>I test drove an 06 Accent with my mother when she was car shopping. It
>>drove and felt and sounded a lot like her old 86 Excel, right down to
>>the door chime. Considering how much of a turd that car was I cannot
>>recommend a Hyundai to anyone. (and yes, I'm using the same logic that
>>people use who once drove an 82 Chevette and deduced all GM's were crap.)
>>
>>Frankly, if you're looking for an econobox commuter car, I'd suggest a
>>Corolla or Civic. Neither car has anything resembling a personality,
>>but generally seem to run for about 10 years with minimal investment.
>>And I'm a GM guy...I'm yet to be convinced the Cobalts will hold up.
>>
>>If you want a car with a personality... that's a different question.
>>
>>TCO is tricky - when I was car shopping in the fall for a family car I
>>spent a lot of time adding up fuel costs, insurance costs, and estimated
>>repair costs for a lot of cars... and ended up buying the car that had
>>the features I wanted anyway. (Subaru Legacy wagon with a manual
>>transmission and AWD.)
>>
>>FWIW, in Manitoba, here's a comparison of insurance rates for basic
>>coverage for your cars (base cars, base coverage) (www.mpi.mb.ca)
>>06 Cobalt: $1612
>>06 Accent: $1504
>>06 Civic: $1707
>>06 Legacy Wagon: $1504
>>
>>Ray
>
>
> You really don't get it. GM is losing their ass because they are like
> microshaft. They own(ed) the market so long they could produce junk
> and people bought it. I can now buy much better cars for much less
> money with better engineering and often with more US content. GM and
> Ford have both made a point of making their small cars low end junk to
> justify the sale price of the bigger but not that much more expensive
> to build full size stuff. But you will recommend them over somebody
> that took quality seriously and fixed it more than 10 years ago.
>
> Oh, and BTW, that includes Honda as their maintenance schedule is
> really a scheduled rebuild the last time I looked.

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

On Wed, 30 May 2007 18:56:14 -0400, "Proctologically Violated©®"
<entropic3.14decay@optonline2.718.net> wrote:

>A "scheduled rebuild" in what way? Replacement of more parts than other
>makes?
>Which parts?
>Does this imply poor construction?
>Is this scheduled rebuild on Honda's or the owner's dime?

owner's dime. It's the basic bitch I have heard from every Honda
owner I know. Pull their maintenance schedule for a source. As I
understand it they replace a lot of pars proactively. That said, I
was looking at Accord last year and they were advertising no
maintenance for the first 100,000 miles so they are doing something
about it. I jut couldn't stand the car so I bought my Elantra. One
of the guys I work with bought an Accord. He's around 60K and talking
about the $1000 shop charge for his next maintenace cycle. Go figure.

Oh, and yes, we drive a lot. Service business.

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

choice was Cobalt or Accent. You said Cobalt. I said I couldn't
understand why.


On Wed, 30 May 2007 09:31:43 -0500, Ray <ray@nospam.example.com>
wrote:

>nothermark wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 May 2007 08:51:17 -0500, Ray <ray@nospam.example.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> nothermark wrote:
>>>> On 24 May 2007 11:21:56 -0700, Jack <buywheels@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have a chance to purchase either a 2006 Chevy Cobalt or 2006 Hyundai
>>>>> Accent for the same amout of money. Both cars are used but are both in
>>>>> excellent, like new condition. I will primarily use the car as a
>>>>> commuter vehicle. Overall cost of ownership including gas mileage,
>>>>> repair, durability, etc. are important to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Chevy is bigger and feels relatively more substantial. The Hyundai
>>>>> gets better gas mileage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which one is likely to have a lower cost of ownership in the long term
>>>>> (ten years)? My apology for cross posting.
>>>> Hyundai = 10 yr bumper to bumper warranty to original owner - they do
>>>> it to show the quality
>>>>
>>>> GM - 5 year drive train to try to convince us they are getting serious
>>>> about quality if they are still here to cover the warranty.
>>> If I HAD to pick between an Accent and a Cobalt, I'd take a Cobalt.
>>>
>>> I test drove an 06 Accent with my mother when she was car shopping. It
>>> drove and felt and sounded a lot like her old 86 Excel, right down to
>>> the door chime. Considering how much of a turd that car was I cannot
>>> recommend a Hyundai to anyone. (and yes, I'm using the same logic that
>>> people use who once drove an 82 Chevette and deduced all GM's were crap.)
>>>
>>> Frankly, if you're looking for an econobox commuter car, I'd suggest a
>>> Corolla or Civic. Neither car has anything resembling a personality,
>>> but generally seem to run for about 10 years with minimal investment.
>>> And I'm a GM guy...I'm yet to be convinced the Cobalts will hold up.
>>>
>>> If you want a car with a personality... that's a different question.
>>>
>>> TCO is tricky - when I was car shopping in the fall for a family car I
>>> spent a lot of time adding up fuel costs, insurance costs, and estimated
>>> repair costs for a lot of cars... and ended up buying the car that had
>>> the features I wanted anyway. (Subaru Legacy wagon with a manual
>>> transmission and AWD.)
>>>
>>> FWIW, in Manitoba, here's a comparison of insurance rates for basic
>>> coverage for your cars (base cars, base coverage) (www.mpi.mb.ca)
>>> 06 Cobalt: $1612
>>> 06 Accent: $1504
>>> 06 Civic: $1707
>>> 06 Legacy Wagon: $1504
>>>
>>> Ray
>>
>>
>> You really don't get it. GM is losing their ass because they are like
>> microshaft. They own(ed) the market so long they could produce junk
>> and people bought it. I can now buy much better cars for much less
>> money with better engineering and often with more US content. GM and
>> Ford have both made a point of making their small cars low end junk to
>> justify the sale price of the bigger but not that much more expensive
>> to build full size stuff. But you will recommend them over somebody
>> that took quality seriously and fixed it more than 10 years ago.
>>
>> Oh, and BTW, that includes Honda as their maintenance schedule is
>> really a scheduled rebuild the last time I looked.
>
>Did you read my post? If I had to choose between a Cobalt and an Accent
>for an automotive appliance, I'd recommend a Civic or a Corolla.
>
>FWIW, I bought a Subaru Legacy in the fall because I needed a wagon or a
>minivan, and wanted awd and a stick shift.
>
>Frankly, nothing compares to driving my Trans Am. If you've never been
>slideways on a road course at 120mph, you'll never understand.
>
>Ray

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

"nothermark" <nothermark@not.here> wrote in message
> One
> of the guys I work with bought an Accord. He's around 60K and talking
> about the $1000 shop charge for his next maintenace cycle. Go figure.
>
> Oh, and yes, we drive a lot. Service business.

Having that service done is, of course going to prolong the life of the car.
OTOH, not having some of the functions done may have very little effect on
the life of the car. No way would I ever follow the dealer's
recommendations. They are a profit center, not just a booster for your
driving comfort. Most important single thing you can do is change the oil
at the proper interval. If you drive a lot, that is probably 7500 miles.

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

Well, I'll take some nervous solace in the "Lowest Cost to Own" glyphic that
Edmund's put on the Honda Fit.
I hope to god they figgered in Honda maintenance. :)
I'll proly have my local very honest guy do the service/assessments.

I used to thank god I wadn't born in the feudal lords/pirate days, cuz I
didn't think I could cope.
Instead, today we have NYS and their bevy of regulatory agencies, including
the out-of-control DMV, and car mfr's/dealerships.

Bluebeard is looking kind of tame....

Time for another tea party?
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"nothermark" <nothermark@not.here> wrote in message
news:v5uu53133on7egfa1nlfjdlm9nifjcq6uf@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 30 May 2007 18:56:14 -0400, "Proctologically Violated©®"
> <entropic3.14decay@optonline2.718.net> wrote:
>
>>A "scheduled rebuild" in what way? Replacement of more parts than other
>>makes?
>>Which parts?
>>Does this imply poor construction?
>>Is this scheduled rebuild on Honda's or the owner's dime?
>
> owner's dime. It's the basic bitch I have heard from every Honda
> owner I know. Pull their maintenance schedule for a source. As I
> understand it they replace a lot of pars proactively. That said, I
> was looking at Accord last year and they were advertising no
> maintenance for the first 100,000 miles so they are doing something
> about it. I jut couldn't stand the car so I bought my Elantra. One
> of the guys I work with bought an Accord. He's around 60K and talking
> about the $1000 shop charge for his next maintenace cycle. Go figure.
>
> Oh, and yes, we drive a lot. Service business.

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

nothermark wrote:
> choice was Cobalt or Accent. You said Cobalt. I said I couldn't
> understand why.
>

because of my experience with cars.
Hyundai = korean for garbage.

A Cobalt ain't that great, but it's better than a Hyundai.

For me, it's also a GM, which because I fix my own cars, means I stand a
chance of being able to service it. I can rebuild my wife's Beretta
blindfolded by now, but every time I open the hood of my Subaru, I'm
reaching for the manual for anything beyond checking the oil - it's all
the same and yet completely different.

That's why.

I've also driven in an Accent and a Cobalt, and the Cobalt is the better
driving car.

Ray

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

Ray <ray@nospam.example.com> wrote in
news:QJV7i.2570$NU1.686@newsfe13.lga:

> because of my experience with cars.

I can't argue with your experience, but are you talking about anything
recent? Or are we pre-2000?

> Hyundai = korean for garbage.

Every time I see this statement I feel my wallet get fatter. Keep it up
as you are saving me and the other Hyundai owners money.

> A Cobalt ain't that great, but it's better than a Hyundai.

Actually, no it isn't. And up until the last few years (and yes I know
the Cobalt is fairly new) this was just a matter of personal opinion.

> For me, it's also a GM, which because I fix my own cars, means I stand
> a chance of being able to service it.

Again, that is your personal choice. If you can service a GM, you can
service just about any other vehicle if you want to spend a few minutes
to learn about it.

> I can rebuild my wife's Beretta blindfolded by now,

LOL. I could do that on the '86 Excel my sister owned too. Since about
'99 or so, I haven't had to rebuild an Hyundai's I've owned. Seriously,
if you know how to rebuild a car blindfolded, you probably done it too
many times. Buy a Hyundai and you won't ever have to worry about that
again.

> but every time I open the hood of my Subaru, I'm
> reaching for the manual for anything beyond checking the oil - it's >
> > all the same and yet completely different.

No offense but it sounds like you don't really want to learn it.

> That's why.
>
> I've also driven in an Accent and a Cobalt, and the Cobalt is the
> better driving car.

Again, I can't argue with your opinion, but I drove a Cobalt and the
thing felt like a real POS. Others have expressed the same opinion.
And there are probably just as many people that think the Accent is a
POS. Personally, I give the Accent the win hands down.

Eric

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

Eric G. wrote:
> Ray <ray@nospam.example.com> wrote in
> news:QJV7i.2570$NU1.686@newsfe13.lga:
>
>> because of my experience with cars.
>
> I can't argue with your experience, but are you talking about anything
> recent? Or are we pre-2000?
>
>> Hyundai = korean for garbage.
>
> Every time I see this statement I feel my wallet get fatter. Keep it up
> as you are saving me and the other Hyundai owners money.
>
>> A Cobalt ain't that great, but it's better than a Hyundai.
>
> Actually, no it isn't. And up until the last few years (and yes I know
> the Cobalt is fairly new) this was just a matter of personal opinion.
>
>> For me, it's also a GM, which because I fix my own cars, means I stand
>> a chance of being able to service it.
>
> Again, that is your personal choice. If you can service a GM, you can
> service just about any other vehicle if you want to spend a few minutes
> to learn about it.
>
>> I can rebuild my wife's Beretta blindfolded by now,
>
> LOL. I could do that on the '86 Excel my sister owned too. Since about
> '99 or so, I haven't had to rebuild an Hyundai's I've owned. Seriously,
> if you know how to rebuild a car blindfolded, you probably done it too
> many times. Buy a Hyundai and you won't ever have to worry about that
> again.
>
>> but every time I open the hood of my Subaru, I'm
>> reaching for the manual for anything beyond checking the oil - it's >
>>> all the same and yet completely different.
>
> No offense but it sounds like you don't really want to learn it.
>
>> That's why.
>>
>> I've also driven in an Accent and a Cobalt, and the Cobalt is the
>> better driving car.
>
> Again, I can't argue with your opinion, but I drove a Cobalt and the
> thing felt like a real POS. Others have expressed the same opinion.
> And there are probably just as many people that think the Accent is a
> POS. Personally, I give the Accent the win hands down.
>
> Eric

I'm not looking to argue, really I'm not.

I test drove an 06 Accent with my mom (she eventually bought an 05 Neon
and loves it) and immediately felt like I was in a time warp back to the
86 Excel. I've also test driven an 06 Pontiac G6 and thought "this is a
really nice 1990 Beretta" so it's not just Hyundai. It's a combination
of milking the same old crap under a new hood, as well as the "common
look and feel" each car company has.

Remember, a Cobalt isn't a Cavalier, which has been likened to a
cockroach - ugly and hard to kill. The Cobalt is supposely miles
better, but it was too small of a car for me to consider with two small
kids, and my mom didn't like it when she was car shopping, so we skipped it.

I know I can service any car, but because I've primarily owned GM's and
my friend has owned GM's, the learning curve is a lot shorter when it
comes time to servicing stuff. I'm only a DIY'er, not a professional
mechanic. I have the shop manual for my Subie, but it's just completely
different than any of the other 15 cars I've ever owned.

I can rebuild the Beretta because my wife has owned since 1994, and it's
been a pretty good car - never left me stranded in 10 winters, and in
Winnipeg, that's a pretty good record. When I replaced the struts and
shocks and balljoints last winter, I was able to do most of the work
from memory and barely needed the shop manual for more than torque
specs. It's like on my race car, we can pull the engine in 45 minutes
including time for a beer.

Practice makes perfect. Every car company does a lot of good/stupid
stuff under the hood, but at least it's usually the same across all
their cars, so servicing one gets you some experience servicing them all.

And frankly, if people are allowed to say "all domestic cars are "
because they once owned a 77 Bobcat that was a POS, then I'm allowed to
say that Hyundai sucks because of my experience with an 86 Excel.

If I had to choose between an Accent and a Cobalt, I'd probably pick a
used Camaro. ;)

Ray

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

Ray wrote:
> nothermark wrote:
>> choice was Cobalt or Accent. You said Cobalt. I said I couldn't
>> understand why.
>>
>
> because of my experience with cars.
> Hyundai = korean for garbage.

You are playing a old tape...

Matt

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

Ray <ray@nospam.example.com> wrote in
news:JM%7i.161289$mJ1.81640@newsfe22.lga:

> Eric G. wrote:
>> Ray <ray@nospam.example.com> wrote in
>> news:QJV7i.2570$NU1.686@newsfe13.lga:
>>
>>> because of my experience with cars.
>>
>> I can't argue with your experience, but are you talking about
>> anything recent? Or are we pre-2000?
>>
>>> Hyundai = korean for garbage.
>>
>> Every time I see this statement I feel my wallet get fatter. Keep it
>> up as you are saving me and the other Hyundai owners money.
>>
>>> A Cobalt ain't that great, but it's better than a Hyundai.
>>
>> Actually, no it isn't. And up until the last few years (and yes I
>> know the Cobalt is fairly new) this was just a matter of personal
>> opinion.
>>
>>> For me, it's also a GM, which because I fix my own cars, means I
>>> stand a chance of being able to service it.
>>
>> Again, that is your personal choice. If you can service a GM, you
>> can service just about any other vehicle if you want to spend a few
>> minutes to learn about it.
>>
>>> I can rebuild my wife's Beretta blindfolded by now,
>>
>> LOL. I could do that on the '86 Excel my sister owned too. Since
>> about '99 or so, I haven't had to rebuild an Hyundai's I've owned.
>> Seriously, if you know how to rebuild a car blindfolded, you probably
>> done it too many times. Buy a Hyundai and you won't ever have to
>> worry about that again.
>>
>>> but every time I open the hood of my Subaru, I'm
>>> reaching for the manual for anything beyond checking the oil - it's
>>> >
>>>> all the same and yet completely different.
>>
>> No offense but it sounds like you don't really want to learn it.
>>
>>> That's why.
>>>
>>> I've also driven in an Accent and a Cobalt, and the Cobalt is the
>>> better driving car.
>>
>> Again, I can't argue with your opinion, but I drove a Cobalt and the
>> thing felt like a real POS. Others have expressed the same opinion.
>> And there are probably just as many people that think the Accent is a
>> POS. Personally, I give the Accent the win hands down.
>>
>> Eric
>
> I'm not looking to argue, really I'm not.
>
> I test drove an 06 Accent with my mom (she eventually bought an 05
> Neon and loves it) and immediately felt like I was in a time warp back
> to the 86 Excel. I've also test driven an 06 Pontiac G6 and thought
> "this is a really nice 1990 Beretta" so it's not just Hyundai. It's a
> combination of milking the same old crap under a new hood, as well as
> the "common look and feel" each car company has.
>
> Remember, a Cobalt isn't a Cavalier, which has been likened to a
> cockroach - ugly and hard to kill. The Cobalt is supposely miles
> better, but it was too small of a car for me to consider with two
> small kids, and my mom didn't like it when she was car shopping, so we
> skipped it.
>
> I know I can service any car, but because I've primarily owned GM's
> and my friend has owned GM's, the learning curve is a lot shorter when
> it comes time to servicing stuff. I'm only a DIY'er, not a
> professional mechanic. I have the shop manual for my Subie, but it's
> just completely different than any of the other 15 cars I've ever
> owned.
>
> I can rebuild the Beretta because my wife has owned since 1994, and
> it's been a pretty good car - never left me stranded in 10 winters,
> and in Winnipeg, that's a pretty good record. When I replaced the
> struts and shocks and balljoints last winter, I was able to do most of
> the work from memory and barely needed the shop manual for more than
> torque specs. It's like on my race car, we can pull the engine in 45
> minutes including time for a beer.
>
> Practice makes perfect. Every car company does a lot of good/stupid
> stuff under the hood, but at least it's usually the same across all
> their cars, so servicing one gets you some experience servicing them
> all.
>
> And frankly, if people are allowed to say "all domestic cars are "
> because they once owned a 77 Bobcat that was a POS, then I'm allowed
> to say that Hyundai sucks because of my experience with an 86 Excel.
>
> If I had to choose between an Accent and a Cobalt, I'd probably pick a
> used Camaro. ;)
>
> Ray

I never took it as arguing (maybe the comment about Hyundai = Korean for
garbage would be considered argumentative by some, but I took it as a
joke).

And no offense to your Mom, but I owned a '96 Neon. It handled great,
but was a major POS otherwise. Unless they've come leaps and bounds
since then (and they may have), that car was a classic case of M.O.P.A.R
(My Old Pig Ain't Running).

I agree with your servicing comments. I was only trying to make the
point that you shouldn't rule out buying a specific car because it may
take you a little longer to change the ball joints the first time you
need to do it in 10 years. But I guess you bought a Subaru, so you are
only half worried about it.

As to the Hyundia sucks comment, I never said you couldn't express your
opinions, and I don't think I was even picking on you for it. I don't
think all domestic cars are either, but the domestic cars that I
would buy are pretty much out of my ball park.

And yes, the choice between a Cobalt and an Accent is a choice I hope I
never have to make. My 2006 Sonata is tight enough for me and my two
kids with all of our crap. Luckily, we have the '07 Entourage to use
when we all need to travel (including the wife).

Eric

Re: Used Cobalt or Accent
 

On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 21:11:24 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
wrote:

>Ray wrote:
>> nothermark wrote:
>>> choice was Cobalt or Accent. You said Cobalt. I said I couldn't
>>> understand why.
>>>
>>
>> because of my experience with cars.
>> Hyundai = korean for garbage.
>
>You are playing a old tape...
>
>Matt

probably an 8 track

;-)