GTcarz - Automotive forums for cars & trucks. - Why/Why Not Is A Hybrid Hyundai A Solution?

Maybe this will help...
--
Messages 1-10 from thread
Message 1 in thread
From: Robert Cohen (robtcohen@aol.com.spam.no)
Subject: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
Date: 2004-04-03 12:23:26 PST

Good point is amade when people are thinking to the effect, "well, hybrids
are
here, and not much has really changed," and I too have been considering what
the hell is stiffling change

Well, here's some obvious assumptions/thoughts:

Guzzling petro SUVs are now some kind of status (keeping up with the
neighbors)

The U.S. taxpayer is subsidizing SUVs with $ incentives, and if that don't
piss
you off, then nothing should

The Japanese Toyota Prius and the Honda hybrid are deemed as too small,
which
they relatively are

There is the aspect of "not invented/produced here" toward them thar foreign
Japanese hybrids

The prices of the Toyota and Honda are not under $20,000, which I currently
deem as the actual central stiffler

I perceive that if the Korean Hyundai does an hybrid--selling it around
$15,000
U.S.--they's sell all they could bring to market, hopefully MILLIONS of the
boogers

I own two Hyundais (an Accent and an Elantra)

They have that 10 year/100,000 mile standard warranted quality now (unlike
their earlier late 1980s--early 1990s somewhat crummy exports).

They have automatic, air, and front & side air bags, and zero percent
financing
currently

They don't have a hybrid on the market; but it's surely is a matter of a
couple
more years until they offer an inexpensive, quality passenger vehicle

They are building a factory in the Montgomery-Greeneville, Alabama, area;
and
it's said to be Santa Fe/SUV oriented, but ...

They will bring that baby to us for thousands less than Bill Ford's heavily
touted hybrid SUV; while GOOD LUCK to Mr. Ford too with his SUV hybrid at
long
last
Post a follow-up to this message

Message 2 in thread
From: Eunometic (eunometic@yahoo.com.au)
Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
Date: 2004-04-07 17:26:14 PST

robtcohen@aol.com.spam.no (Robert Cohen) wrote in message
news:<20040403152229.23784.00000196@mb-m26.aol.com>...
> Good point is amade when people are thinking to the effect, "well, hybrids
are
> here, and not much has really changed," and I too have been considering
what
> the hell is stiffling change
>
> Well, here's some obvious assumptions/thoughts:
>
> Guzzling petro SUVs are now some kind of status (keeping up with the
> neighbors)

They also help to get you over the speed humps appearing in many
neighbourhoods of the world and are spacious enough for a family and
some really are used for of road purposes.

I don't believe that Hyundai or any or the Korean manufactures that
have cost input advantages will be able to do much better than
Totyota.

The first reason is this: The Prius uses a number of exotic
materials: nickel in the batteries, plus rare earth permanent
magnets in the electric motor. No amount of mass manufacturing can
get away from expensive material.

The second reson is this: The prius ADDs expensive systems. It has
apart from a 12V battery, a starter, an alternator a 144V battery and
a very large electric motor.

The sercret to cost reduction is going to be to combine all if these
systems into one: only 1 starter/alternator/electric motor and also
only 1 battery.

That is happening with such systems Continental with their "ISAD"
product and
12-Volt Stop-Start Technology from Dana, 42V Belt Alternator Starter
System from Delphi will be the devices that will make a difference in
the world.
Post a follow-up to this message

Message 3 in thread
From: James M. Blaschak (jim@localhost.localdomain)
Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
Date: 2004-04-07 21:49:12 PST

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:26:13 -0700, Eunometic wrote:

> The second reson is this: The prius ADDs expensive systems. It has
> apart from a 12V battery, a starter, an alternator a 144V battery and
> a very large electric motor.

The 2004 Prius takes away at least one expensive system. Instead of a
complicated and heavy hydraulic unit filled with clutches and valves, the
transmission consists of a single planetary gearset with the sun gear
driven by the engine, the planet carrier driven by on electric motor, and
the ring gear driven by a second electric motor. This provides a virtually
unlimited range of gear ratios, including reverse. The entire apparatus
is lubricated and cooled with five ounces of oil.
Post a follow-up to this message

Message 4 in thread
From: Robert Cohen (robtcohen@aol.com.spam.no)
Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
Date: 2004-04-08 07:38:40 PST

re: the technical aspects of the prius et cetera

thanks for your knowledge inputs

i knew the hybrid was too good to be a panacea

meanwhile, i'm rooting for 'em, and, if there is a divine metaphysical
goodness, so would it, but there probably isn't, and so, you technical geeks
please invent & facilitate whatever in this hell will get the necessary
mission
accomplished, please
Post a follow-up to this message

Message 5 in thread
From: Corey (upyoursvirusgeek@sbcglobal.net)
Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
Date: 2004-04-08 15:03:03 PST

"Robert Cohen" <robtcohen@aol.com.spam.no> wrote in message
news:20040408103758.13458.00000021@mb-m18.aol.com...
> re: the technical aspects of the prius et cetera
>
> thanks for your knowledge inputs
>
> i knew the hybrid was too good to be a panacea
>
> meanwhile, i'm rooting for 'em, and, if there is a divine metaphysical
> goodness, so would it, but there probably isn't, and so, you technical
geeks
> please invent & facilitate whatever in this hell will get the necessary
mission
> accomplished, please
>
>
>
Corey Says-

I have been told of an inventor who has invented a new engine. It only has 3
or 4 moving parts and is way more efficient than a normal combustion engine.
Something like 90%. Patents are being processed and it is costing a fortune
for lawyers. end.
Post a follow-up to this message

Message 6 in thread
From: robert luis rabello (nobody@home.com)
Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
Date: 2004-04-08 19:16:54 PST

Corey wrote:

>I have been told of an inventor who has invented a new engine. It only has
3
>or 4 moving parts and is way more efficient than a normal combustion
engine.
>Something like 90%. Patents are being processed and it is costing a fortune
>for lawyers. end.
>

We're all waiting with baited breath. . . By the way, did you EVER
take any math or science?

robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782
Post a follow-up to this message

Message 7 in thread
From: Damon Hill (damon161@comcast.com)
Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
Date: 2004-04-08 22:19:15 PST

robert luis rabello <nobody@home.com> wrote in
news:qIndc.55595$Ig.7701@pd7tw2no:

>
>
> Corey wrote:
>
>>I have been told of an inventor who has invented a new engine. It only
>>has 3 or 4 moving parts and is way more efficient than a normal
>>combustion engine. Something like 90%. Patents are being processed and
>>it is costing a fortune for lawyers. end.
>>
>
> We're all waiting with baited breath. . . By the way, did you
> EVER
> take any math or science?

"bated" (as in holding back)

and

Isn't it obvious?

The facts, especially thermodynamics, would get in the way of Corey's
fantasies. Ever notice how the pro-hydrogen true believers are
their own worst enemies?

--Damon
Post a follow-up to this message

Message 8 in thread
From: Corey (upyoursvirusgeek@sbcglobal.net)
Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
Date: 2004-04-09 22:32:09 PST

"Damon Hill" <damon161@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94C5E318439ABdamon161attbicom@216.196.105. 134...
> robert luis rabello <nobody@home.com> wrote in
> news:qIndc.55595$Ig.7701@pd7tw2no:
>
> >
> >
> > Corey wrote:
> >
> >>I have been told of an inventor who has invented a new engine. It only
> >>has 3 or 4 moving parts and is way more efficient than a normal
> >>combustion engine. Something like 90%. Patents are being processed and
> >>it is costing a fortune for lawyers. end.
> >>
> >
> > We're all waiting with baited breath. . . By the way, did you
> > EVER
> > take any math or science?
>
> "bated" (as in holding back)
>
> and
>
> Isn't it obvious?
>
> The facts, especially thermodynamics, would get in the way of Corey's
> fantasies. Ever notice how the pro-hydrogen true believers are
> their own worst enemies?
>
> --Damon

Corey Says-

Less moving parts mean less friction and energy loss to heat. What don't you
understand, public school victim? You know what? I don't feel like telling
what I know about it right now. end.
Post a follow-up to this message

Message 9 in thread
From: Damon Hill (damon161@comcast.com)
Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
Date: 2004-04-10 13:30:16 PST

"Corey" <upyoursvirusgeek@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:tELdc.20539$1p.18145@newssvr27.news.prodigy.c om:

>
> "Damon Hill" <damon161@comcast.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns94C5E318439ABdamon161attbicom@216.196.105. 134...

>> The facts, especially thermodynamics, would get in the way of Corey's
>> fantasies. Ever notice how the pro-hydrogen true believers are
>> their own worst enemies?
>>
>> --Damon
>
> Corey Says-
>
> Less moving parts mean less friction and energy loss to heat. What
> don't you understand, public school victim? You know what? I don't
> feel like telling what I know about it right now. end.

Because you don't know it and don't understand it. Friction won't
account for more than a small fraction of the total energy lost.

--Damon
Post a follow-up to this message

Message 10 in thread
From: Eunometic (eunometic@yahoo.com.au)
Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
Date: 2004-04-09 01:01:26 PST

robtcohen@aol.com.spam.no (Robert Cohen) wrote in message
news:<20040408103758.13458.00000021@mb-m18.aol.com>...
> re: the technical aspects of the prius et cetera
>
> thanks for your knowledge inputs
>
> i knew the hybrid was too good to be a panacea
>
> meanwhile, i'm rooting for 'em, and, if there is a divine metaphysical
> goodness, so would it, but there probably isn't, and so, you technical
geeks
> please invent & facilitate whatever in this hell will get the necessary
mission
> accomplished, please

Toyota WILL get there.

I expect that the rare earth permanent magnet motors will be replaced
with variable reluctance motors which have the required performance
and size but are not only cheap to make but use no more than silicon
steel. That will get rid of one cost disadvantage.

(Pemanent magent motors are easier to control and they were developed
by the aerospace, militray, servo, robot and machine tool industry.
For these purposes the development costs dwarf the raw material cost)

With the battery there is also hope: hypercapitors (Mr okimura with
his nanogate hypercapitors is the world leader) these are only made of
carbon.
The use of high drain lead foil batteries is also an alternative to
nickel metal hydride.

So keep rooting. Toyota will get their but expect some competition.
The Americans are often caught creatively napping by largesse that
cheap oil and cheap labour they have access to.

Personaly I'd be tempted to buy a Prius. Although I is not very cost
effective it will be if the price of gasoline goes up and the 20L of
gasoline I can store in my car port in Australia will keep me going
for 1.5 weeks.
Post a follow-up to this message

©2004 Google

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 4/9/2004

Well here's my (unrequested) $.02 .....
If you offer me two versions of an otherwise identical car, but the
differences are that one version is: 200 pounds heavier, costs $1000 dollars
more, and has 5 cubic feet less storage, but gets 40% better mileage..... If
it's a mid-size sedan or hatchback, I'd take that one. On fuel economy
alone, it would pay for itself rather quickly.

--

S.

Don't fight with Idiots.
They will overwhelm you with their numbers and beat you with their
experience.

"The Steven" <me@here.com> wrote in message
news:Wfjfc.53825$1y1.1527@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> Maybe this will help...
> --
> Messages 1-10 from thread
> Message 1 in thread
> From: Robert Cohen (robtcohen@aol.com.spam.no)
> Subject: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality
>
>
> View this article only
> Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
> Date: 2004-04-03 12:23:26 PST
>
>
> Good point is amade when people are thinking to the effect, "well, hybrids
> are
> here, and not much has really changed," and I too have been considering
what
> the hell is stiffling change
>
> Well, here's some obvious assumptions/thoughts:
>
> Guzzling petro SUVs are now some kind of status (keeping up with the
> neighbors)
>
> The U.S. taxpayer is subsidizing SUVs with $ incentives, and if that don't
> piss
> you off, then nothing should
>
> The Japanese Toyota Prius and the Honda hybrid are deemed as too small,
> which
> they relatively are
>
> There is the aspect of "not invented/produced here" toward them thar
foreign
> Japanese hybrids
>
> The prices of the Toyota and Honda are not under $20,000, which I
currently
> deem as the actual central stiffler
>
> I perceive that if the Korean Hyundai does an hybrid--selling it around
> $15,000
> U.S.--they's sell all they could bring to market, hopefully MILLIONS of
the
> boogers
>
> I own two Hyundais (an Accent and an Elantra)
>
> They have that 10 year/100,000 mile standard warranted quality now (unlike
> their earlier late 1980s--early 1990s somewhat crummy exports).
>
> They have automatic, air, and front & side air bags, and zero percent
> financing
> currently
>
> They don't have a hybrid on the market; but it's surely is a matter of a
> couple
> more years until they offer an inexpensive, quality passenger vehicle
>
> They are building a factory in the Montgomery-Greeneville, Alabama, area;
> and
> it's said to be Santa Fe/SUV oriented, but ...
>
> They will bring that baby to us for thousands less than Bill Ford's
heavily
> touted hybrid SUV; while GOOD LUCK to Mr. Ford too with his SUV hybrid at
> long
> last
> Post a follow-up to this message
>
> Message 2 in thread
> From: Eunometic (eunometic@yahoo.com.au)
> Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality
>
>
> View this article only
> Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
> Date: 2004-04-07 17:26:14 PST
>
>
> robtcohen@aol.com.spam.no (Robert Cohen) wrote in message
> news:<20040403152229.23784.00000196@mb-m26.aol.com>...
> > Good point is amade when people are thinking to the effect, "well,
hybrids
> are
> > here, and not much has really changed," and I too have been considering
> what
> > the hell is stiffling change
> >
> > Well, here's some obvious assumptions/thoughts:
> >
> > Guzzling petro SUVs are now some kind of status (keeping up with the
> > neighbors)
>
> They also help to get you over the speed humps appearing in many
> neighbourhoods of the world and are spacious enough for a family and
> some really are used for of road purposes.
>
> I don't believe that Hyundai or any or the Korean manufactures that
> have cost input advantages will be able to do much better than
> Totyota.
>
> The first reason is this: The Prius uses a number of exotic
> materials: nickel in the batteries, plus rare earth permanent
> magnets in the electric motor. No amount of mass manufacturing can
> get away from expensive material.
>
> The second reson is this: The prius ADDs expensive systems. It has
> apart from a 12V battery, a starter, an alternator a 144V battery and
> a very large electric motor.
>
> The sercret to cost reduction is going to be to combine all if these
> systems into one: only 1 starter/alternator/electric motor and also
> only 1 battery.
>
> That is happening with such systems Continental with their "ISAD"
> product and
> 12-Volt Stop-Start Technology from Dana, 42V Belt Alternator Starter
> System from Delphi will be the devices that will make a difference in
> the world.
> Post a follow-up to this message
>
> Message 3 in thread
> From: James M. Blaschak (jim@localhost.localdomain)
> Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality
>
>
> View this article only
> Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
> Date: 2004-04-07 21:49:12 PST
>
>
> On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:26:13 -0700, Eunometic wrote:
>
> > The second reson is this: The prius ADDs expensive systems. It has
> > apart from a 12V battery, a starter, an alternator a 144V battery and
> > a very large electric motor.
>
> The 2004 Prius takes away at least one expensive system. Instead of a
> complicated and heavy hydraulic unit filled with clutches and valves, the
> transmission consists of a single planetary gearset with the sun gear
> driven by the engine, the planet carrier driven by on electric motor, and
> the ring gear driven by a second electric motor. This provides a virtually
> unlimited range of gear ratios, including reverse. The entire apparatus
> is lubricated and cooled with five ounces of oil.
> Post a follow-up to this message
>
> Message 4 in thread
> From: Robert Cohen (robtcohen@aol.com.spam.no)
> Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality
>
>
> View this article only
> Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
> Date: 2004-04-08 07:38:40 PST
>
>
> re: the technical aspects of the prius et cetera
>
> thanks for your knowledge inputs
>
> i knew the hybrid was too good to be a panacea
>
> meanwhile, i'm rooting for 'em, and, if there is a divine metaphysical
> goodness, so would it, but there probably isn't, and so, you technical
geeks
> please invent & facilitate whatever in this hell will get the necessary
> mission
> accomplished, please
> Post a follow-up to this message
>
> Message 5 in thread
> From: Corey (upyoursvirusgeek@sbcglobal.net)
> Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality
>
>
> View this article only
> Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
> Date: 2004-04-08 15:03:03 PST
>
>
> "Robert Cohen" <robtcohen@aol.com.spam.no> wrote in message
> news:20040408103758.13458.00000021@mb-m18.aol.com...
> > re: the technical aspects of the prius et cetera
> >
> > thanks for your knowledge inputs
> >
> > i knew the hybrid was too good to be a panacea
> >
> > meanwhile, i'm rooting for 'em, and, if there is a divine metaphysical
> > goodness, so would it, but there probably isn't, and so, you technical
> geeks
> > please invent & facilitate whatever in this hell will get the necessary
> mission
> > accomplished, please
> >
> >
> >
> Corey Says-
>
> I have been told of an inventor who has invented a new engine. It only has
3
> or 4 moving parts and is way more efficient than a normal combustion
engine.
> Something like 90%. Patents are being processed and it is costing a
fortune
> for lawyers. end.
> Post a follow-up to this message
>
> Message 6 in thread
> From: robert luis rabello (nobody@home.com)
> Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality
>
>
> View this article only
> Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
> Date: 2004-04-08 19:16:54 PST
>
>
> Corey wrote:
>
> >I have been told of an inventor who has invented a new engine. It only
has
> 3
> >or 4 moving parts and is way more efficient than a normal combustion
> engine.
> >Something like 90%. Patents are being processed and it is costing a
fortune
> >for lawyers. end.
> >
>
> We're all waiting with baited breath. . . By the way, did you EVER
> take any math or science?
>
>
> robert luis rabello
> "The Edge of Justice"
> Adventure for Your Mind
> http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782
> Post a follow-up to this message
>
> Message 7 in thread
> From: Damon Hill (damon161@comcast.com)
> Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality
>
>
> View this article only
> Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
> Date: 2004-04-08 22:19:15 PST
>
>
> robert luis rabello <nobody@home.com> wrote in
> news:qIndc.55595$Ig.7701@pd7tw2no:
>
> >
> >
> > Corey wrote:
> >
> >>I have been told of an inventor who has invented a new engine. It only
> >>has 3 or 4 moving parts and is way more efficient than a normal
> >>combustion engine. Something like 90%. Patents are being processed and
> >>it is costing a fortune for lawyers. end.
> >>
> >
> > We're all waiting with baited breath. . . By the way, did you
> > EVER
> > take any math or science?
>
> "bated" (as in holding back)
>
> and
>
> Isn't it obvious?
>
> The facts, especially thermodynamics, would get in the way of Corey's
> fantasies. Ever notice how the pro-hydrogen true believers are
> their own worst enemies?
>
> --Damon
> Post a follow-up to this message
>
> Message 8 in thread
> From: Corey (upyoursvirusgeek@sbcglobal.net)
> Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality
>
>
> View this article only
> Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
> Date: 2004-04-09 22:32:09 PST
>
>
> "Damon Hill" <damon161@comcast.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns94C5E318439ABdamon161attbicom@216.196.105. 134...
> > robert luis rabello <nobody@home.com> wrote in
> > news:qIndc.55595$Ig.7701@pd7tw2no:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Corey wrote:
> > >
> > >>I have been told of an inventor who has invented a new engine. It only
> > >>has 3 or 4 moving parts and is way more efficient than a normal
> > >>combustion engine. Something like 90%. Patents are being processed and
> > >>it is costing a fortune for lawyers. end.
> > >>
> > >
> > > We're all waiting with baited breath. . . By the way, did you
> > > EVER
> > > take any math or science?
> >
> > "bated" (as in holding back)
> >
> > and
> >
> > Isn't it obvious?
> >
> > The facts, especially thermodynamics, would get in the way of Corey's
> > fantasies. Ever notice how the pro-hydrogen true believers are
> > their own worst enemies?
> >
> > --Damon
>
> Corey Says-
>
> Less moving parts mean less friction and energy loss to heat. What don't
you
> understand, public school victim? You know what? I don't feel like telling
> what I know about it right now. end.
> Post a follow-up to this message
>
> Message 9 in thread
> From: Damon Hill (damon161@comcast.com)
> Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality
>
>
> View this article only
> Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
> Date: 2004-04-10 13:30:16 PST
>
>
> "Corey" <upyoursvirusgeek@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> news:tELdc.20539$1p.18145@newssvr27.news.prodigy.c om:
>
> >
> > "Damon Hill" <damon161@comcast.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns94C5E318439ABdamon161attbicom@216.196.105. 134...
>
>
> >> The facts, especially thermodynamics, would get in the way of Corey's
> >> fantasies. Ever notice how the pro-hydrogen true believers are
> >> their own worst enemies?
> >>
> >> --Damon
> >
> > Corey Says-
> >
> > Less moving parts mean less friction and energy loss to heat. What
> > don't you understand, public school victim? You know what? I don't
> > feel like telling what I know about it right now. end.
>
> Because you don't know it and don't understand it. Friction won't
> account for more than a small fraction of the total energy lost.
>
> --Damon
> Post a follow-up to this message
>
> Message 10 in thread
> From: Eunometic (eunometic@yahoo.com.au)
> Subject: Re: Alternative Hyundai Would Substantially Change Reality
>
>
> View this article only
> Newsgroups: sci.energy.hydrogen
> Date: 2004-04-09 01:01:26 PST
>
>
> robtcohen@aol.com.spam.no (Robert Cohen) wrote in message
> news:<20040408103758.13458.00000021@mb-m18.aol.com>...
> > re: the technical aspects of the prius et cetera
> >
> > thanks for your knowledge inputs
> >
> > i knew the hybrid was too good to be a panacea
> >
> > meanwhile, i'm rooting for 'em, and, if there is a divine metaphysical
> > goodness, so would it, but there probably isn't, and so, you technical
> geeks
> > please invent & facilitate whatever in this hell will get the necessary
> mission
> > accomplished, please
>
> Toyota WILL get there.
>
> I expect that the rare earth permanent magnet motors will be replaced
> with variable reluctance motors which have the required performance
> and size but are not only cheap to make but use no more than silicon
> steel. That will get rid of one cost disadvantage.
>
> (Pemanent magent motors are easier to control and they were developed
> by the aerospace, militray, servo, robot and machine tool industry.
> For these purposes the development costs dwarf the raw material cost)
>
> With the battery there is also hope: hypercapitors (Mr okimura with
> his nanogate hypercapitors is the world leader) these are only made of
> carbon.
> The use of high drain lead foil batteries is also an alternative to
> nickel metal hydride.
>
> So keep rooting. Toyota will get their but expect some competition.
> The Americans are often caught creatively napping by largesse that
> cheap oil and cheap labour they have access to.
>
> Personaly I'd be tempted to buy a Prius. Although I is not very cost
> effective it will be if the price of gasoline goes up and the 20L of
> gasoline I can store in my car port in Australia will keep me going
> for 1.5 weeks.
> Post a follow-up to this message
>
>
>
>
> ©2004 Google
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