Richard Steinfeld wrote:
> Brian Nystrom wrote:
>
>> Richard Steinfeld wrote:
>>
>>> joe wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am working on the design of remotes here at Rochester Institute of
>>>> Technolgy and would like to here from some Hyundai owners.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right away, put major attention into making these goddamn systems
>>> silent! These products have been designed by people who are
>>> thoughtless, arrogant, and stupid. I detest being forced to endure
>>> all the beeps and whoops coming from people getting in and out of
>>> their cars! Make the systems announce status with lights only, and
>>> absolutely no audio whatsoever unless someone is actually breaking
>>> into the car.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Hyundai system IS completely silent, other than the sound of the
>> locks actuating. It only chirps if you press the lock button twice,
>> which isn't necessary in order to arm the system. The second press
>> simply gives an audible confirmation of locking an arming for those
>> who feel they need it.
>>
>> BTW, Joe's question was about the remote itself, which has nothing to
>> do with whether the system is silent or not.
>
>
> Actually, I'm on target. You see, I after my Ford was smashed up by a
> drunk, I rented a Hyundai Elantra to try it on. And, indeed, I set off
> the alarm from far away by accident. My causing a cacophony of whoops
> and blasts in the parking lot was caused by the remote's design, as well
> as the system's switching. The design of the system -- the
> lock/alarm/remote together is stupid, and this went the same way for the
> next car: a Ford Focus (the Hyundai was defective so I swapped it at
> Hertz).


So because YOU screwed up and set of the alarm, the system is "stupid".
I beg to differ. It works just fine and it's silent unless you press the
lock button twice or hit the alarm button. Figuring out the remote is
NOT rocket science.
>
> The issue is that most people actually press the button twice -- and
> sound the horn, or crazy box, because there's no visible confirmation of
> the first press. On the Ford and a GM car, I noticed that when you
> _unlock_ the car, it flashes the headlights. So far, so good.
>
> But when you _lock_ the car, you don't know because all it does is blink
> the dome light. Now, when in the world are you going to notice _that?_
> So, you think that nothing happened, and you press again and whoop 'n
> blast everyone in the neighborhood.
>
> The mindless stupidity of the designers, and then the slavish copying of
> what's already been done leads to lots of unwanted bleeping, squawking,
> honking, angry electo-chirps.

So what does that have to do with Hyundai? The Hyundai system doesn't
work that way. If you want to bitch about other cars, there are
appropriate forums to do so. This is not it.

> The OP asked about the handheld remote. Right there is one immediate
> issue that I discovered: it's too easy to hit the panic button by
> accident. But the remote is part of an overall system -- the whole thing
> needs some tweaking. The bottom line, of course, is the abuse of people
> who may be more sensitive to sound than the designer -- perhaps a guy
> who couldn't care less, and, "What the hell is wrong with you; get a life!"

You hit the panic button ONCE, so it's a bad design? Give me a break!
The panic button is there and readily accessible for good reason.

> One of my work hats has been closely involved with human engineering
> (computers, mostly). And I'm amazed by how much people with brains
> overlook sensible accommodations and common sense when they design things.

Sure, that's a problem with a lot of products. However, just because one
of us doesn't like something, it doesn't mean that it's a poor design or
that most other people aren't happy with it.

> Here's a guy who was interested enough to ask, and I'm more impressed
> that he did than by his gramatical slip. Many engineers I've met aren't
> as aware -- they just want their designs to function, and off to the
> next project.

What gramatical error are you talking about?

> A few years ago, when my late electronics technician friend was looking
> for a car, I recommended that he pay attention to Hyundais. I've been
> interested in Korean products since I began checking out the insides of
> some stereo products during the 80s. He bought an Elantra, and I was
> impressed with a number of design aspects of it. I honestly don't know
> if the cars are designed in Korea, in the USA, or both. But there's a
> little more thoughtfulness in the Hyundai's engineering than I'm used to
> seeing in domestic cars. So, what's common here is the application of
> some reasoning and consideration into design -- whether it's to the car
> itself or to the OP's interest in what the _user_ might want in the
> remote control. And I know he's a student, but here's a guy I'd love to
> work with on a design project. Don't you agree?

As I said before, the only change I'd like to see is to make the remote
thinner. Other than that, I'm happy with it.

 

"Richard Steinfeld" <rgsteinBUTREMOVETHIS@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:11eijgj1l9k0267@corp.supernews.com...

> >
> > The chirp serves a much important purpose IMO. If a door isn't fully
closed
> > meaning the door won't lock, then the alarm will not chirp. Very useful
> > when kids and elderly relatives don't close their door fully.
> >
>
> That's cool. However, I don't want to be awakened from a nap because
> your grandma didn't shut your car door. We need an alternative system
> that's not alarming to a neighbor, such as, perhaps, a bright strobe
> light. And until the time has come when all cars are outfitted with
> bright flashing lights, I want the existing systems deactivated.
>

You must be a very light sleeper or are sleeping in your car to be awoken by
what really is quite a quiet chirp -- on my Elantra at least. Your bright
strobe light idea sounds quite interesting. Hopefully for your sake that if
implemented, it doesn't shine in your home and awake you in the night.

> Note that we already have a warning: in my Hyundai, if a door isn't
> fully closed, the ding-dong keeps sounding _inside_ the car. What more
> does the driver need?

You're missing the point. The alarm doesn't chirp if the door is not fully
shut. The door ding-dong only happens when the keys are in the ignition I
believe. I wouldn't be trying to lock the car with the remote if it were
still with the keys in the ignition.

> Those chirps are maddening to have to listen to
> for me and for others who are sensitive to sound. It's noise, and even
> though the chirps are brief, they're damn loud. And alarming.
>

They are alarming by definition and on purpose. The chirp also serves to
inform any potential car thieves in the vicinity that your car is locked.

> The noise levels in our environment have steadily risen -- 100 years
> ago, there were no unmuffled small gasoline engines -- no leaf blowers,
> chainsaws; there were no boom cars, and no worthless car alarms and door
> lock boopers and whoopers driving everyone else crazy. In an urban area,
> the overall noise pollution has a psychological effect -- it certainly
> makes people tense. Time to get back to quiet.

Good luck with your quest.

 

Maybe it's my particular unit, but the "panic" button sticks.

Also, on the Hyundai remotes, all 3 buttons (lock/unlock/panic) are on
the face in close proximity. I'veset of the panic button by accident
when holding a handful of keys.

The VW Jetta "switchblade" remote has the panic button on the side away
from the other buttons.

New features? How about a programmable button for my garage door?
Can you make it an MP3 player?

 

I agree. I've had my 2002 XG unlock itself numerous times and I assume its
because the unlock button is being pressed when the remote is in my pocket.

Dan


"B Crawford" <bcdcinbc@telus.net> wrote in message
news:m8ZFe.107005$wr.30169@clgrps12...
> Hi,
> I have a 2001 XG & I've had the remote stick 'on'. When I pressed it to
> lock, nothing would happen & when I moved into the shade I could see the
red
> LED was flickering & had most likely been on for quite awhile. Took it
apart
> & put in new battery which seemed to fix it.
> My real complaint is however that it is very easy to trip the unlock
button
> in your pocket & my wife has locked the car but after tossing the keys in
> her purse & closing that has unlocked it again. A design to reduce chance
> engagement would be welcome.
> BCinBC
> "joe" <wwtcmd@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1122485074.046898.228290@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> > how about the mechanical design? do you think it could be designed
> > better?
> >
>
>

 

Brian Nystrom wrote:
> Richard Steinfeld wrote:
>
>> Andy S wrote:
>>
>>> You aren't forced to endure this. You just don't like it because you
>>> find it annoying.
>>> I hear it so often that it doesn't bother me.
>>>
>>
>> Beg your pardon: I am indeed forced to endure other peoples' noise
>> pollution. I'm into silence. Forcing other people to endure your noise
>> is abuse. Just because it doesn't bother you is loopy and
>> inconsiderate logic as to why it should not bother me. I pay attention
>> to sound; perhaps you don't. To quote the Noise Pollution
>> Clearinghouse: "Your noise penetrates my silence but my silence will
>> never penetrate your noise."
>>
>> Noise pollution is a serious issue in our society. Some people want
>> peace and quiet.
>>
> Amen to that. We can start by mandating that motorcycles meet the same
> noise regulations that cars must meet. I find that a heck of a lot more
> offensive than chirps from alarms systems.

Different people, of course, are troubled by different types of
particular noises. But they're all intrusive to someone. I feel that we
need broadband quiet. Muffle eveything that's mufflable.

In the case of motorcyles, at least here in California, I'm pretty sure
that they've got to meet the same standards as cars. However, many the
guys who drive them feel otherwise, and get off on removing mufflers
altogether, and even adding gadgets that boost the sound. I think that
the issue is enforcement (same as with boom cars); the cops don't do it.
And (catchin' comes before hangin') it's hard for you or I to turn in
one of these yokels because they're long gone before we can read the
license plates, especially the little ones on the bikes.

Dunno. It's a problem.

Richard

 

Brian Nystrom wrote:

> While I'm all for reducing noise pollution, if the innocuous chirp from
> an alarm system is "alarming" to you, I daresay the the problem is you,
> not the chirp. If noise is such a problem for you, you should move to a
> more remote area where the ambient noise level is lower. All the
> complaining in the world is not going to significantly reduce noise
> levels in a city. Cities are what they are and no one is obligated to
> accommodate you.

It's not innocuous when it's right outside my bedroom, focused by the
alley. Cities can be quiet, too. People should not have to put up with
abuse because they live in a city. Let's say that your neighbor comes
home at 3:00 AM when you're sleeping and lets out a war-whoop locking
the car door. People do that. Or, since you posted about motorcycles,
how about the guy who blasts past your house at 3:00 AM with their
Harley. It's all unwanted noise. In that case, since you are bothered by
loud bikes, that one's your problem, too.

Richard

 

Brian Nystrom wrote:
>>
>> Actually, I'm on target. You see, I after my Ford was smashed up by a
>> drunk, I rented a Hyundai Elantra to try it on. And, indeed, I set off
>> the alarm from far away by accident. My causing a cacophony of whoops
>> and blasts in the parking lot was caused by the remote's design, as
>> well as the system's switching. The design of the system -- the
>> lock/alarm/remote together is stupid, and this went the same way for
>> the next car: a Ford Focus (the Hyundai was defective so I swapped it
>> at Hertz).
>
>
>
> So because YOU screwed up and set of the alarm, the system is "stupid".
> I beg to differ. It works just fine and it's silent unless you press the
> lock button twice or hit the alarm button. Figuring out the remote is
> NOT rocket science.
>

Uh, Brian, please read my material more carefully before you put me
down. I posted about the bad human engineering of the confirmation
circuitry, which causes people to almost always press the button twice;
and whoop it up because they can't see the confirmation from the first
silent press.

Read the following paragraphs. Again. You quoted them, you know.

>>
>> The issue is that most people actually press the button twice -- and
>> sound the horn, or crazy box, because there's no visible confirmation
>> of the first press. On the Ford and a GM car, I noticed that when you
>> _unlock_ the car, it flashes the headlights. So far, so good.
>>
>> But when you _lock_ the car, you don't know because all it does is
>> blink the dome light. Now, when in the world are you going to notice
>> _that?_ So, you think that nothing happened, and you press again and
>> whoop 'n blast everyone in the neighborhood.
>>
>> The mindless stupidity of the designers, and then the slavish copying
>> of what's already been done leads to lots of unwanted bleeping,
>> squawking, honking, angry electo-chirps.
>
>
> So what does that have to do with Hyundai? The Hyundai system doesn't
> work that way. If you want to bitch about other cars, there are
> appropriate forums to do so. This is not it.
>

The Hyundai that I rented worked this way.
>
> You hit the panic button ONCE, so it's a bad design? Give me a break!
> The panic button is there and readily accessible for good reason.
>
It is too easy to hit by accident.

>> One of my work hats has been closely involved with human engineering
>> (computers, mostly). And I'm amazed by how much people with brains
>> overlook sensible accommodations and common sense when they design
>> things.
>
>
> Sure, that's a problem with a lot of products. However, just because one
> of us doesn't like something, it doesn't mean that it's a poor design or
> that most other people aren't happy with it.
>

It's a thoughtless design that annoys other people. Annoying other
people isn't cool, even if your attitude is "What's wrong with you: get
a life." That's insulting, Bryan. It happens that many people are
disturbed by unneccessary noise pollution. Just like you are with
motorcycles. Hey, Bryan: what's wrong with you? I love the sound of
loud-as-hell motorcycles. I'm going to part outside your house and revv
my motorcycle: Vroom, Vroom, Bryan! Deal with it. Get a life!

>> Here's a guy who was interested enough to ask, and I'm more impressed
>> that he did than by his gramatical slip. Many engineers I've met
>> aren't as aware -- they just want their designs to function, and off
>> to the next project.
>
>
> What gramatical error are you talking about?
>

"...would like to here..."

Richard

 

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:56:35 -0700, Richard Steinfeld
<rgsteinBUTREMOVETHIS@sonic.net> wrote:

>Brian Nystrom wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually, I'm on target. You see, I after my Ford was smashed up by a
>>> drunk, I rented a Hyundai Elantra to try it on. And, indeed, I set off
>>> the alarm from far away by accident. My causing a cacophony of whoops
>>> and blasts in the parking lot was caused by the remote's design, as
>>> well as the system's switching. The design of the system -- the
>>> lock/alarm/remote together is stupid, and this went the same way for
>>> the next car: a Ford Focus (the Hyundai was defective so I swapped it
>>> at Hertz).
>>
>>
>>
>> So because YOU screwed up and set of the alarm, the system is "stupid".
>> I beg to differ. It works just fine and it's silent unless you press the
>> lock button twice or hit the alarm button. Figuring out the remote is
>> NOT rocket science.
>>
>
>Uh, Brian, please read my material more carefully before you put me
>down. I posted about the bad human engineering of the confirmation
>circuitry, which causes people to almost always press the button twice;
>and whoop it up because they can't see the confirmation from the first
>silent press.
>
>Read the following paragraphs. Again. You quoted them, you know.
>
>>>
>>> The issue is that most people actually press the button twice -- and
>>> sound the horn, or crazy box, because there's no visible confirmation
>>> of the first press. On the Ford and a GM car, I noticed that when you
>>> _unlock_ the car, it flashes the headlights. So far, so good.
>>>
>>> But when you _lock_ the car, you don't know because all it does is
>>> blink the dome light. Now, when in the world are you going to notice
>>> _that?_ So, you think that nothing happened, and you press again and
>>> whoop 'n blast everyone in the neighborhood.
>>>
>>> The mindless stupidity of the designers, and then the slavish copying
>>> of what's already been done leads to lots of unwanted bleeping,
>>> squawking, honking, angry electo-chirps.
>>
>>
>> So what does that have to do with Hyundai? The Hyundai system doesn't
>> work that way. If you want to bitch about other cars, there are
>> appropriate forums to do so. This is not it.
>>
>
>The Hyundai that I rented worked this way.
>>
>> You hit the panic button ONCE, so it's a bad design? Give me a break!
>> The panic button is there and readily accessible for good reason.
>>
>It is too easy to hit by accident.
>
>>> One of my work hats has been closely involved with human engineering
>>> (computers, mostly). And I'm amazed by how much people with brains
>>> overlook sensible accommodations and common sense when they design
>>> things.
>>
>>
>> Sure, that's a problem with a lot of products. However, just because one
>> of us doesn't like something, it doesn't mean that it's a poor design or
>> that most other people aren't happy with it.
>>
>
>It's a thoughtless design that annoys other people. Annoying other
>people isn't cool, even if your attitude is "What's wrong with you: get
>a life." That's insulting, Bryan. It happens that many people are
>disturbed by unneccessary noise pollution. Just like you are with
>motorcycles. Hey, Bryan: what's wrong with you? I love the sound of
>loud-as-hell motorcycles. I'm going to part outside your house and revv
>my motorcycle: Vroom, Vroom, Bryan! Deal with it. Get a life!
>
>>> Here's a guy who was interested enough to ask, and I'm more impressed
>>> that he did than by his gramatical slip. Many engineers I've met
>>> aren't as aware -- they just want their designs to function, and off
>>> to the next project.
>>
>>
>> What gramatical error are you talking about?
>>
>
>"...would like to here..."
>
>Richard


I only use the audible alert to tell me the doors locked. I like it.
I don't really care at all if you don't.

 

Richard Steinfeld wrote:
> Brian Nystrom wrote:
>
>>> Actually, I'm on target. You see, I after my Ford was smashed up by a
>>> drunk, I rented a Hyundai Elantra to try it on. And, indeed, I set
>>> off the alarm from far away by accident. My causing a cacophony of
>>> whoops and blasts in the parking lot was caused by the remote's
>>> design, as well as the system's switching. The design of the system
>>> -- the lock/alarm/remote together is stupid, and this went the same
>>> way for the next car: a Ford Focus (the Hyundai was defective so I
>>> swapped it at Hertz).
>>
>> So because YOU screwed up and set of the alarm, the system is
>> "stupid". I beg to differ. It works just fine and it's silent unless
>> you press the lock button twice or hit the alarm button. Figuring out
>> the remote is NOT rocket science.
>
> Uh, Brian, please read my material more carefully before you put me
> down. I posted about the bad human engineering of the confirmation
> circuitry, which causes people to almost always press the button twice;
> and whoop it up because they can't see the confirmation from the first
> silent press.

You're making assumptions and touting them as facts. You have no idea
how often people press their remote buttons twice. Judging by your other
responses, once it too much. Intolerance will get you nowhere.

> Read the following paragraphs. Again. You quoted them, you know.
>
>>> The issue is that most people actually press the button twice -- and
>>> sound the horn, or crazy box, because there's no visible confirmation
>>> of the first press. On the Ford and a GM car, I noticed that when you
>>> _unlock_ the car, it flashes the headlights. So far, so good.
>>>
>>> But when you _lock_ the car, you don't know because all it does is
>>> blink the dome light. Now, when in the world are you going to notice
>>> _that?_ So, you think that nothing happened, and you press again and
>>> whoop 'n blast everyone in the neighborhood.
>>>
>>> The mindless stupidity of the designers, and then the slavish copying
>>> of what's already been done leads to lots of unwanted bleeping,
>>> squawking, honking, angry electo-chirps.
>>
>> So what does that have to do with Hyundai? The Hyundai system doesn't
>> work that way. If you want to bitch about other cars, there are
>> appropriate forums to do so. This is not it.
>>
>
> The Hyundai that I rented worked this way.

Current Hyundais do not.

>> You hit the panic button ONCE, so it's a bad design? Give me a break!
>> The panic button is there and readily accessible for good reason.
>>
> It is too easy to hit by accident.

Really? I think I've hit it exactly once in the 15 months I've had the
car and that was in my garage. That's hardly a problem.

>>> One of my work hats has been closely involved with human engineering
>>> (computers, mostly). And I'm amazed by how much people with brains
>>> overlook sensible accommodations and common sense when they design
>>> things.
>>
>> Sure, that's a problem with a lot of products. However, just because
>> one of us doesn't like something, it doesn't mean that it's a poor
>> design or that most other people aren't happy with it.
>
> It's a thoughtless design that annoys other people.

No, it annoys you. Do you see anyone else here complaining?

> Annoying other
> people isn't cool, even if your attitude is "What's wrong with you: get
> a life." That's insulting, Bryan. It happens that many people are
> disturbed by unneccessary noise pollution. Just like you are with
> motorcycles. Hey, Bryan: what's wrong with you? I love the sound of
> loud-as-hell motorcycles. I'm going to part outside your house and revv
> my motorcycle: Vroom, Vroom, Bryan! Deal with it. Get a life!

If it gets to the point that I can't stand it, I'll do something about
it, even if it means moving. I've already done something about idiot
kids that drive by with their bass booming. The town I live in has noise
abatement ordinances and the police will enforce them when complaints
are filed. That's the way you deal with such things, not by complaining
about them in a forum.
>
>>> Here's a guy who was interested enough to ask, and I'm more impressed
>>> that he did than by his gramatical slip. Many engineers I've met
>>> aren't as aware -- they just want their designs to function, and off
>>> to the next project.
>>
>> What gramatical error are you talking about?
>
> "...would like to here..."

And that's significant?

 

Brian Nystrom wrote:
> Richard Steinfeld wrote:
>
>> joe wrote:
>>
>>> I am working on the design of remotes here at Rochester Institute of
>>> Technolgy and would like to here from some Hyundai owners.
>>>
>>
>> Right away, put major attention into making these goddamn systems
>> silent! These products have been designed by people who are
>> thoughtless, arrogant, and stupid. I detest being forced to endure all
>> the beeps and whoops coming from people getting in and out of their
>> cars! Make the systems announce status with lights only, and
>> absolutely no audio whatsoever unless someone is actually breaking
>> into the car.
>
>
> The Hyundai system IS completely silent, other than the sound of the
> locks actuating. It only chirps if you press the lock button twice,
> which isn't necessary in order to arm the system. The second press
> simply gives an audible confirmation of locking an arming for those who
> feel they need it.
>
> BTW, Joe's question was about the remote itself, which has nothing to do
> with whether the system is silent or not.

My 2004 Sonata LX doesn't ever chirp even if I push the lock button twice.

 

Bob wrote:
> Brian Nystrom wrote:
>
>> Richard Steinfeld wrote:
>>
>>> joe wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am working on the design of remotes here at Rochester Institute of
>>>> Technolgy and would like to here from some Hyundai owners.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right away, put major attention into making these goddamn systems
>>> silent! These products have been designed by people who are
>>> thoughtless, arrogant, and stupid. I detest being forced to endure
>>> all the beeps and whoops coming from people getting in and out of
>>> their cars! Make the systems announce status with lights only, and
>>> absolutely no audio whatsoever unless someone is actually breaking
>>> into the car.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Hyundai system IS completely silent, other than the sound of the
>> locks actuating. It only chirps if you press the lock button twice,
>> which isn't necessary in order to arm the system. The second press
>> simply gives an audible confirmation of locking an arming for those
>> who feel they need it.
>>
>> BTW, Joe's question was about the remote itself, which has nothing to
>> do with whether the system is silent or not.
>
>
> My 2004 Sonata LX doesn't ever chirp even if I push the lock button twice.

Maybe it's broken? Regardless, you should sell it to Richard! ;-)