If you dont own a ford, look in here. LOL
 

Passing on the message.

*sad, but true*

hahahahahahaha.....awesome. But they're taking my money too:(

niceeeeeeeeeeeeee

A 25 billion bailout would just prologue their failure by a few months.

they need management change, not the same management with reduced salary, but gm i will admit is getting better at what their doing compared to the cars they put out in the late 90s early 2000s. if they manage to turn it around great, if they dont im not gonna cry about it they brought this upon themselves

From what I understand, Ford doesn't even need the bailout, they are just taking the credit.

That said, I dont want them to use my tax money to save them under the current management and pay scales (union included).

The main problem is that these manufactorors is that they pay SOOO much to the employees that no wonder they cant afford to stay in business. I know people at the Ford plant who are part of the custodial staff and they are making 55K+ a year. Imagine how much they pay their people yearly at that plant.

Personally I DO NOT support any American companies and my hard earned money WILL NEVER go to them. Im sorry that the people in Ontario are losing jobs to because their companies cant afford to pay them but in no way should the government be getting involved. Companies close down all the time, and did the government help them? No.

VWJettaMK2, thats the joke about it. If we do a bailout here in Canada, where do you think the money is coming from??? Our pockets. And F Ford, they are now suing and trying to shut down peoples Ford related forums.

lol

Let them go Bankrupt already. Fak them. They build crap they they cry that their products is not being bought. I know people will lose jobs but my Honda is build in Alliston, Ontario and Toyota built another RAV4 plant in Ontario. Chrysler was even sold off by Daimler cause its a losing brand. Why invest in a sinking ship?

I agree COONHOUND, no one else is interested in the american 3 (lets not call them the big 3 anymore).

Why should we the taxpayers have to invest in something we do not believe in.

You guys have to remeber, these are big guys that play the public like pupets, they tell you things to make you believe whatever they want. As for buying an import I wouldn't be caught driving a jap crap, or an over priced german car.
In my opinion, they build much better, longer lasting cars and trucks.
plus that ad is not from a big 3, some hater made that up

i drive jap shitboxes that are used and preferably under 500 bucks for my beater (like my current 1992 suzuki swift that cost $350) but mind you my best beater was my 1995 ford escort....had an american badge on it, and thats how i like it...i hate driving the jap , but everyday i tell myself atleast i know i aint supporting the company or its gay aftermarket directly...american all the way, especially with trucks and performance vehicles...Ill never buy a new japanese car or german car (overpriced shitboxes those germans)

all i can say is let them sink. it was the unions selfish ways that got them sinking to begin with. asking for raises many times a year, complaining about everything etc etc , dont no many companies that can survive paying 78 bucks an hour to the GM workers. its not that they cant build cars, just no one is buying them. wages go up, price of the car goes up. u dont see hondas workers crying about wage (which they get paid very well) , unions ruin businesses and have been doing so for years. the government bails out air canada that has been in the red for years simply because they are the "nations airline" . the gov have been under rock for years. McGinitys plan to have that driving law change (19 years and up with only 1 passenger) a petition was signed by facebook to see what they thought. he threw that bill out np. maybe we should start a petition about not bailing out the "shrived 3" see what he says. many jobs are at stake but what do u expect from a company that has been off the tracks for years?>:smilie_d0 i can go on but its not worth it lol

Well, jap crap is made in North America by the same blue color type employees, how much worse can it be? In fact, the detroit 3 have been trying to make big strides to catch up to the quality of imports.
They are getting there, but they are still behind now in other features people have come to adore with jap crap and german vehicles.

Ford should last a while still, they just want the credit. But regardless, them failing will affect a lot of people.


Many of these foreign owned auto companies build their cars in the same plants, I believe Toyota does it.

By buying some imports you support N.American auto workers, which is great.


Avg wage at GM is $55 / hr (time life)


I do agree, the unions have ruined many companies due to their greed.

Should we let the big 3 fail, no. Should we demand big changes, yes.

The US gov is a joke too, bailing out AIG and then AIG giving bonuses to senior management. I would be outraged!

that is wrong.

But had a Mazda engine

Think about it...

come to think of it, you are right....probably why i got amazing mileage with it:smilie_da

Oh man...

"So now you're out $25 billion, plus the cost of your Subaru."

^^ Oh no! Not my Subaru >_< Damn you Big 3!

There's a Mercury Villager right down the road from me with one of those stupid OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN stickers on it. I pulled up next to him at a stop light, asked him if he buys his parts at the Nissan dealer or not, since it's just a rebadged Nissan Quest. He wasn't amused. Told him to get his straight before putting a sticker on his rebadged NIssan.:loser:

im happy that the US senate rejected the Big 3 out of a loan. They should have built better cars. Everyone here thats hating on German and Japanese cars you guys should realize something. Those cars were originated on the other side of the world and is a big hit in North America. Goes to show you something. the big 3 would learn something by replicating the foreigners marketing scheme and selling techniques. This is why a BMW M5 makes my head turn and a 300C SRT makes me laugh out loud.

ford sucks anyways let them jsut be done with ive never owned a american car nor am i ever planning on. let all that metal be put to better use, european or japanese cars.

At Honda in Alliston the AVG wage for online general assembly is $30/hr and Honda doesnt have unions.. I agree with 2TONE93GT the unions squeeze everything they can out of the companies so they can get more and more till there is nothing left, with low sales volume it was only a matter of time till this was gunna happen.

out of 3 brands i prefer Ford...some of their newer vehicles are pretty decent

gm is now making some good products (new malibu,new tahoe) but there is just some thing they
can't just get to do it right

chrysler on the other hand i dont even know what kinda disease the LX cars have out to the rest
but i dont get why all their interior look the same...you dont wanna be the poor sucker buying a 300c
with similar interior components as a caliber

ford by now is used to failure...they've been going down way before the other two and relied mostly
on their cash cow vehicles (crown vic,taurus,f-150)...imo they suffer from the same problems GM does with their newer products...for instance take a look at the new focus and its pretty clear why people arent giving domestics as second look

Ford Focus, is on the Top best seller cars for 08????

Here is one of those closed minded Fools, You don't have a clue how much better Ford id then any of your Imports, price, luxury, value, power. Lets not even get into how bad the Jap cars rust.

BMW M5???? what is that worth compared to a 300c SRT?
Try a viper beside the BMW you wouldn't remember that the BMW was even there.

Thats including the high payed CEO's not assemblers are from 19-22 an hour.

import cars may be great in some respects, but nobody considers the american brands anymore, and in my opinion the import brands arent much better than american cars if better at all. My 1995 ford escort that i paid 200 bucks for gave me way less problems than my bud's mint 1993 civic that he treats like a baby and bought in very good condition. I drove that escort into the ground, and if it wasnt for the lady who didnt take care of it before me, it would have lasted much longer....my dads 1988 gmc sierra 4.6L truck which lived a tough construction life before we got it still runs to this very day 400,000 clicks on it and aloooot of abuse- thats what i call like a rock. The americans have built a bad reputation for themselves in the past in a few vehicles which is going to be hard for them to clear, but like i said the japs are not that much better- things like interior fit and finish...to me i could give a rats ass about being picky on like that, and those are some of things that most people are picky about....people nowadays dont consider the american cars enough, which is a shame, because i personally think they have come a very long way since the days where they actually gave problems- people just like to think they give problems, when they wont even try them, so how would they know? and with the german cars, pfft, lets not even go there...those things are total shitboxes plain and simple...those weinerschnitzels overengineer the hell out of everything, idiots here go ooh ahh and buy it, and then when it breaks its a pain to fix and costs an arm and a leg....people who buy german are trying to buy a status- a status that says i have enough to get ripped off on the actual car and to get ripped off on all the money im going to need to spend to fix it.

AVG pension of a union worker, $45,000.

They also released a new figure, the overall cost for an employee including benefits, holidays and pay worked out to be an average of $77 / hr.

I already have family that got laid off and I know a few more who are about to be hit. But the union needs to make more concessions, and management needs to take some hits too. Otherwise, we are just prolonging their death.

Ford Focus, is on the Top best seller cars for 08????
------------------------------------------------
wasn't aware of that one...and i can swear i've seen more 09 corollas on the road then new gen focuses
imo ford completly missed on their chance to make the focus and equivalent product to the japanese

plus a bunch of other stuff that has nothing to do with what they make.

but why would somebody leave say honda and buy a ford? a honda to them is a known product. a ford or gm isn't. so why would somebody take that risk? THAT is the problem facing them.

That is totally true. If a person has hardships with a domestic product and buys a beater or even a new import and it treats them very well, people become brand loyal. The problem is, the domestics of the past haven't been the best.

While I personally don't have any complaints about the early 80's or even 90's vehicles I have owned, all the late model stuff including new off the lot have been garbage. The last new domestic I bought was in 2001. Since then I purchased with my family 3 imports which I love.

I would not take a chance going back to a Ford at this time, but, that is not to say price point wouldn't affect my decision. If i knew a certain domestic had a decent shelf life or the issues with it were easily resolved and the car was next to nothing, I may weigh the pros / cons of maintenance and take a chance on it. But this would be on only a very few select vehicles.

i leased a 2007 mustang GT for a short period and it was a great car reliability wise. granted i had it 6 months but i had no concerns with it being a very good car that way.

hey guys i agree that people are brand loyal and that it is hard for people to consider domestics because of their past reputation, but i personally think that new american cars from the last few years are some of the best out there...im not just saying that to support the i only like american dance, im saying it because thats what ive noticed and believe....like i said before it will be very hard for the americans to shake their reputation of unreliability and have more customers consider domestic instead of import

This was a couple yrs back at the auto show by a tsr member .. he predicted it

http://i44.tinypic.com/4vs280.jpg

Here is a guy who got his ass handed to him by a Z24

Now goes to show you how imature this people are, and ingorant. This companies provide jobs for us and the U.S. and around the world. So when companies need a hand everyone should stop hating, and try helping, everyone will get affected.


Oh I don't work in the Auto buisness, but I am doing my part, I just ordered my 2009 F150 and its a killer truck

so even though people dont like GM cars and their numbers have been decreasing we should help the company survive?

lol id rather invest the money elsewhere in say quebec manufacturer ZEN ( electric cars)

I bought a 2007 Dodge Charger SXT 3.5 V6 (no its not a Hemi) with 17,900 kms on it for $18,000 last February. Leather, heated seats, power everything.

I was shopping around with a open mind, looking at everything from Civics to 4x4 Avalanches. Its probably the best deal I could find.

A 2007 Civic, with higher mileage still goes for $4000+ more than a bigger, more comfortable car. I'm not ragging on Hondas, I think its great that they've made their entry-level, basic grocery getter into a nice vehicle, and if I had money to burn I'd pick on up. Sure it would have been more efficient in the gas prices of the summer, but I sacraficed gas mileage for comfort, and the overall price of buying the car off the lot. AAAAAnd with a set of steel wheels, and being dark grey, it has the appearance of an unmarked police car....:smilie_da

If the Honda was less, or at least had lower mileage, I may have gone that way.

Basically I needed a reliable, year round daily driver. The Charger does that. It had 2 minor issues which were covered under warranty, and they were known issues, so the problems were fixed within an hour of being in the shop.

What I do find interesting is that a company like Hyundai, who have always had a bad reputation of being "Korean crap" can develop a car like the Genesis, which had a lot of similar features found in a BMW or Lexus, and the "American 3" continue to build big bland, gas guzzling cars.

Ford and GM both have developed Hybrid vehicles, but none that people are interested in. Chrysler doesn't have a hybrid...but they have HEMIs!!!! This kind of mentality is what lead them down this road. While the imports were building efficient vehicles, the North American manufacturers were continuing down the road of gas guzzling SUVs and V8s. Don't get me wrong. I love the new Challenger, and the Camaro looks nice too, but the people they should be targeting are the ones that are having to sacrafice beer and wings on Sunday so they can afford to drive to work.

The new Dodge Ram is better IMO, and they really do need the help. According to Ford they are fine for the moment, so in an attempt to help the failing auto makers you helped one not doing as bad as the other two.. Can't win can you? LOL

Look at how many jobs the lose of the 3 will be lost, ZEN wont EVER replace those number of jobs. That is why we need them, ZEN can fail and it's effect of doing so wouldn't be as damaging as the Detroit 3.

I test drove a '07 3.5 also, I was iffy at first about it but was surprised by the room, comfort, and power it had. I was expecting a real gutless, struggles to pull itself car. The ride was much better then I was expecting for its size. The passenger room was great threw out(me, wife, kids). I wanted to drive a HEMI version but they didn't have any on the used lot(didn't want to fall for a new one and not be able to afford it). Wife and I wanted to take a couple of days to think it threw and add some things up. Went back and GONE! I should have signed the paperwork then. Im back to finding another one that catches my eyes, appearance and price wise. And I still want to test drive the HEMI version.

Hey Don look at the write ups on Dodge, not a good truck at all, worst gas milage, of all trucks, ford has the best pay load, towing capacity, best interior, best ride, best frame, has advance trac with roll stability control with this feature there will be no more trailer sway, a 6 speed transmission, which down shifts as you go down a hill while towing, trailer brake control built in dash, I can go on and on. I will use this to tow a 24 foot trailer to the track, plus use it for constrution, and pleasure use

What do you guys think about the Volt? Will it be enough to save GM?

chrysler has a hybrid just fyi.

the new 4cyl malibu get better mileage than a camry.

no. they won't sell enough. sales are not GM's problem. profits are. GM's cost per vehicle are extremely high. THAT'S where they need to concentrate not sales.