RonBurgundy

TheStar.com | GTA | TTC workers on strike <-- link

I say fire all the lazy greedy SOB's and get an independent operator in to run the city's transit system. Hell, even I didnt get a 3% raise this year due to a tight economy. But apparently these greedy uneducated bastards think they should be paid six digits to drive a bus all day long.

Whatever happened to working hard for your money?

Hyde

FUDGE UNIONS they can go to hell. Like you said what ever happened to working hard for money. The city over pays their employees so much it's such bull. Why go to the university when your pretty much guaranteed a job of $80'000 a year being a garbage man.

They got reduce the powers these unions. Every time a service is in need they go on strike such a money grab. Like when we get huge snow fall the plow drivers and salters go on strike. No to mention TTC fares are almost 50% more then other large cities like New York and such.

elysium

As far as what happened to working hard for your money the way I see it is they do. As you can see they are a vital part of what makes this city run. As far as walking out like they did last night I would have to agree that it was irresponsible and inconsiderate. However, despite that I do remain supportive of the workers. I mean, how would you like it if your job got contracted out and left you unemployed? I don't think anyone would like that idea. I think you would exercise your right to strike as well and as far as I can see that's why I love to live in such a democratic society.

Hyde

As bad of a president Reagan was for the USA I have to use and example from one of his actions. When the air traffic controllers of the USA threatened to go on strike. Reagan said fine but let it be known if they did go on strike which would have been illegal they would all be fired and they could then reapply for their jobs the next day at a lower salary.

All I am saying is they aren't doing anything special that requires skills 4 years of university. They don't deserve what they are making not to mention the extensive benefits they get as being employed by the government. I'm not sure what part of the TTC is on strike to my knowledge it is the repair people and such. They are no different than the average handyman or mechanic most of these guys don't even have a full college education. There is no reason they get paid as much as they do.

I understand what you mean about living in a Democratic society and exercising their right to strike but frankly these Unions have to much power. Nothing can ever get done buy the government because all the money grabbers are always going on strike and taking our tax money not to mention raising TTC fares.

Right now in the current situation they are asking for competitive wages. Basically if Joe Blow started his own private transportation service with a couple of panel vans and a couple of drivers. If he were to pay his employees at $100/hr then the City would be forced to do the same for the TTC.

Lots of people work harder then these guys for less money. Look at TTC drivers they don't even help people with strollers they just sit on their asses and complain. The service is unreliable and never on time. They should worker on their hospitality and reliability before they get talks about getting a raise. We should spend the money that the city will end up spending on the raised wages and instead maybe fix these Subways they talk about need such a major fixing.

Or maybe lets get a monorail on the lakeshore.

RonBurgundy

The reason why their jobs are being contracted out is because they are too expensive to keep as employees thanks to their persistent raises despite any reason for actually deserving a raise.

Like I say with most stuff "people bring it on themselves"

Kuztom Freak

Im not sure how unions form or operate, but I know there are thousands of ppl willing to do their jobs for half the pay. In not sure if the TTC is a gov thing or just a city thing, but if ya cant fire someone cuz they are part of a union - I say scrap the whole operation and let go of the union ppl, esp cuz it looses tens of millions a yr [meaning no more TTC, no comp packages cuz thems on strike, etc..] and form a new corp/company called the NTTC (New Toronto Transit Commision) and hire ppl at half wages and have the contract worded in such a way that an employee cannot join a union OR word it so that they are ALLWAYS on some sort of probation (which I think makes em inelligeble to join a union).

Ya I understand they have a right to strike, a right to demand more pay and the ppl/the city has a right to service and fold a corp and start a new one if they want. Loads of businesses fold and start again under a new name to get out of OR around contracts. Look how many building/reno contractor companies fold and never finish work they were paid for or never pay employees who are owed money for work done.

RonBurgundy

^^^ you are not too far off. That is what most companies will do nowadays to get rid of costly unions. They will either close the unionized business and open a similar one elsewhere, or they will outsource all of their jobs. The people in the union dont realize they are just shooting themselves in the foot by using this strike BS. Its only a matter of time before someone smartens up and takes care of it in a more responsible manner.

BabyTisha

I think the ttc should be put as an essential service......in my line of work, even though I am union, I can not strike because I am "essential". When I know for a fact that many people who are "essential" use the ttc daily to get to their jobs, how can they say they are not essential???? I'm just baffled.

elysium

Because it's not essential. TTC is only one mode of transportation out of many. If you rely on the TTC to get to work it's your responsibility to find other means of transportation. We are privileged to have such a transit system in our city and that's all it is, a privilege. As far as getting rid of unions you crazy communist bastards should probably move to China or Cuba or something.

Hyde

Your so wrong on this. The TTC should be made essential as so many people use it to get to work downtown or across the city. If you didn't have TTC your would have a congestion tax, parking prices would be sky high downtown, downtown would be worse then a parking lot. Saying that those that rely on the TTC should just find another form of transportation is just pure ignorance. Theres no point for say a bartender to work all night if he can't get home on TTC because a cab is gonna cost him his nights wages.

Getting rid of Unions is more right wing actually well it occurs both in Communist and Fascist states.

It is not a privilege it is essential to the functioning of our city. Like someone else said they're holding the city at hostage. We don't have enough cabs to move the amount of people as fast or as efficiently as the city does.

Fire them all and they can re apply at half the wages and they keep none of the seniority like I said before Reagan did it with the Air Traffic Controllers.

elysium

I don't see it as pure ignorance. The only reason why I would see the TTC as an essential service is for the elderly and disabled. I would agree 100% for the TTC being an essential service in that respect. However, transportation isn't limited to cars. You could buy a scooter or even ride a bike to work and truthfully the exercise might do you some good. I agree with you, getting rid of unions would be considered more right wing however I was taking the extreme forms of both wings into consideration when I said that. We pretty much live in a middle of the road democratic society and if you don't approve of it, all I can say is move to a country where you will be more at home, I guess....

And as far as firing all of the employees, its an extremely costly scenario. I'm sure you can see why, I'd rather not explain. All this political talk makes me somewhat upset. I respect all your opinions and the bottom line for me is the union acted irresponsibly leaving people stranded, and the TTC should not be deemed an essential service. The workers are worth every penny they earn as you can see. You're absolutely correct the city cannot function properly without the TTC. We have a very class system in this city and we should all consider ourselves lucky. Anyways going for a bike ride since I mentioned riding lol...

voltar

elysium you're a foool. UNIONS contradict pure capitalism! So think before you speak. Second off Unions are suicidal they squeeze and squeeze and eventually eat up their pasture and starve to death, case in point The United Auto Workers. They had a good run, ended up with a guy with 0 education and 0 training except like a 2 day course, getting paid $50-70 an hour (factoring in benefits and etc) to screw 2 bolts by hand (Factual, actually met a guy who does that).


But Anyyyyyywways, driving the bus is a shitty ****ing job, they deserve decent money because they put up with alot of . However they should be essential, especially if Toronto wants to keep claiming to be a world classs city. But I'd say they curretnyl make plenty and 3% is the best they should expect. But if IIRC their main issue was that they get a pay-cut if they get time off due to in injury or some (if a bus driver gets traumatized and has hgimself commited into counseling and like that for a few months), whwile most other city workers don't get a pay cut in that situation. Of course it should be considered that rates of TTC employees taking time off for like that is higher then anby other city branch, including the police or social workers.

RonBurgundy

Whats so crazy about being paid for performance?

And going with your point, the TTC workers should feel PRIVILEGED to have a job with the lack of education they have. There are some of us out there who have spent $$$$$ trying to better ourselves and we dont get the increases that these blood sucking union bastards do.

as long as they keep increasing the cost to the city of toronto, they will eventually lose their jobs when the city has to cut back on transit costs. The UAW is a great example of this.

Kuztom Freak

Can you say Canadian winter? how about stormy rainy weather? Can you carry groceries home on a bike in traffic with crappy drivers and not get killed? What about parents (single or otherwise) with children? <-- ya lets put lil kids on bikes in traffic while mom watches them and carries all their school bags n *****.

Many ppl live pay check to pay check - no money for a scooter + gas + insurance.

and employees happy to work for half and no bennifits are worth even more.


I dont ride the TTC or any transit, not for over a decade, so I dont care really. Making it an esential service tho, would actually increase the fairs - just look at other essential services like police/fire/etc... they get exactly what they want meaning you pay for it.

Too costly to train new ppl to replace the existing workers, start training them now and replace em one by one over a year, it doesnt need to be done all in one shot. How hard is it to operate a subway [push lever to go, pull lever to stop] a squirl could do that - hell, you could totally automate that system and dump all the drivers. Streetcars arnt far off either. Buses - well we allways hear about immagrants with skills looking fer work, bring over those with bus licences.

My point is - there are other solututions, way better solutions. Hire new ppl at half wages who are extatic to make $25/hr = less financial overhead = not so much in debpt, eventually the TTC could start making money, lower fairs or freeze em, and get more vehicles. Its a business, plain and simple, its just poorly run.

RonBurgundy