.y2a.

Lets not continue to assume that the cars that were allegedly street racing had their headlighting system on or even working.

v8mike

Regardless of how many times you spell it out for them, some people will never quite grasp the concept that right of way does not apply in ALL situations.

Turbo Jer

Can anyone say speculation, why wouldn't they have had there lights on? If you are going for a pull up Yonge St., you are not going to turn off your lights for f#$k sakes. The only time anyone ever does that is at the track or an organized event, and even that is stupid.

Turbo Jer

Why don't you enlighten us?

gldwngr

The information is out there and readily available. Why don't you find it for yourself?

By the way, the part of your vision that does the best job of determing speed of an approaching object is your peripheral vision. Of course, by the time your peripheral vision comes into play, that approaching object is already upon you...

In perfect daylight conditions absent mist or excessive heat haze, you can get a vague idea of approaching speed by estimation based on the rate at which the object grows "larger" in yourt field of vision, but that only works when you have a clear view of the approaching object, can clearly define the outline of that object in relation to it's background, and can utilize the changing position of that approaching object in relation to fixed objects at the side of the road. Even with all that going for you, it's still a crap shoot once you start trying to evaluate the speed of objects that are travelling at speeds that you do not ordinarily see in day to day experience. Variables such as vehicle size and even colour can cause huge variations in how fast we think that vehicle is approaching us.

Our personal experience also comes into play - how does one estimate speed without have a frame of reference and personal experience by which to do that estimate, and if that is so, how may people really have any degree of extensive experience guaging the speed of traffic approaching them at double the speed limit? Remember, people make decisions acording to the frame of reference provided by their own personal experiences.

Night time darkness and approaching headlights provide the absolutely toughest environment in which to estimate the speed of approaching traffic. You have no outline definition of the approaching vehicle by which to judge how fast the object is growing in your field of vision. Headlights don't provide much clue because they vary so much is size and shape (sealed beam vs projectors), glare, intensity and hue (different from glare), high beam vs low beam, etc. There is no reliable "constant" from which to even begin speed estimation.

Research shows that most of us just guess whether it is safe based on perceived distance of the object away from us, and not on any reliable estimate of approaching speed simply because we are not able to estimate with any degree of accuracy. We just guess, with out "guess" being in part based on the speed we expect the approaching vehicle to be doing according to our frame of experience, and our "confirmation" of that guess really only comes when the vehicle passes (hopefully) alongside of us and our peripheral vision comes into play. That's just the way our vision is wired.

That is one of the reasons Ontario law (and that of several US states) is written to remove the legal right of way from persons who are exceeding teh speed limit. In Ontario, that threshhold is 16 kmph or more over the limit. The reason is that our ability to make effective driving decisions relies on a reasonable expectation of what the other users on the road will be doing in a given set of circumstances, including vehicle speeds. Yes, defensive driving can help you avoid the unexpected acts of others, but for users to safely share the road with each other, all need to be largely playing by the same rule book.

Turbo Jer

Because I am not the one trying to use it to prove my point, you are. I'm not saying you aren't right, I'm just asking you to convince without hearsay.

gldwngr

I'm throwing it out there. I know it's fact. Now, you can verify it for yourself or you can disprove it.

Supra90T

You still have a visible object moving at a certain speed towards your vantage point. Plain and simple. It might be different than during the daytime, but if you are unable to perceive the approximate rate that a car is closing in on you...You shouldn't be driving on the public roads.

Now, of course none of us know the true circumstances in this particular event, so that is a generalization...Either way, it's annoying how the media jumps on it as a chance to hit down the "street racers" as more or less anyone with a modified car

kyriian

dont make me sound as if im blaming the dam victims here.... im merely stating that it does state that USUALLY the one making a left turn is ALMOST always at fault.... im not saying in this case the victims is at fault for doing an illegal left turn as a result of these 2 ****ed up kids doin double the speed limit

we are not lawyers, and we can only assume things as none of us were at the scene of the accident and we are merely speculating what happen from what the media told us

kyriian

double posted

v8mike

Then what exactly was the point of your contribution? Everyone is well aware that under normal circumstances, the driver making the left turn is at fault. As a recap, the issue being discussed here is whether the person making the left turn is at fault when the other parties are travelling well in excess of the speed limit and/or "racing".

kyriian

maybe i just missed that discussion.....

lancer9225

The end result to this whole mess is not racing or left hand turns. SPEED is the only factor. We have speed limits on all roads for a reason. To all the idiots on this thread blaming the victims in this crash, if I was speeding down any road where ever doing 200 km/h and crashed into someone you love driving their car, it doesnt matter what they were doing, making left hand turns or whatnot, the fact is I was the end result of this crash because of my speed.

So wake up people

B6T

Did the Hyundai get hit by both oncoming cars?

red93_si