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100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
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Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"Sparrow" <funnybunnyfive@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1184934200.704687.50770@57g2000hsv.googlegrou ps.com... > Read about it at http://Muvy.org > > Spam, spam, spam.... These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was kicked around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC it was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges. If you're going to spam us, try getting your feet on the ground first. Mike |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"Sparrow" <funnybunnyfive@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1184934200.704687.50770@57g2000hsv.googlegrou ps.com... > Read about it at http://Muvy.org > > Spam, spam, spam.... These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was kicked around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC it was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges. If you're going to spam us, try getting your feet on the ground first. Mike |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"Sparrow" <funnybunnyfive@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1184934200.704687.50770@57g2000hsv.googlegrou ps.com... > Read about it at http://Muvy.org > > Spam, spam, spam.... These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was kicked around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC it was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges. If you're going to spam us, try getting your feet on the ground first. Mike |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
Michael Pardee wrote:
> These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was kicked > around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big > hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC it > was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges. Actually, that doesn't sound that unreasonable. 250 KW for ten minutes is 41.7 KWH, about $5 worth of electricity. I leave it to someone else with a much wilder imagination than I have to figure out where to get a battery that will charge significantly in ten minutes, much less a whole pack of them. -- "Justice Thomas pointed out that the Constitution does not waive the rights of the individual because an elite has decided its motives are pure." -- Paul Greenberg |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
Michael Pardee wrote:
> These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was kicked > around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big > hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC it > was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges. Actually, that doesn't sound that unreasonable. 250 KW for ten minutes is 41.7 KWH, about $5 worth of electricity. I leave it to someone else with a much wilder imagination than I have to figure out where to get a battery that will charge significantly in ten minutes, much less a whole pack of them. -- "Justice Thomas pointed out that the Constitution does not waive the rights of the individual because an elite has decided its motives are pure." -- Paul Greenberg |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
Michael Pardee wrote:
> These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was kicked > around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big > hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC it > was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges. Actually, that doesn't sound that unreasonable. 250 KW for ten minutes is 41.7 KWH, about $5 worth of electricity. I leave it to someone else with a much wilder imagination than I have to figure out where to get a battery that will charge significantly in ten minutes, much less a whole pack of them. -- "Justice Thomas pointed out that the Constitution does not waive the rights of the individual because an elite has decided its motives are pure." -- Paul Greenberg |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:09g8n4-ao1.ln1@remote.clifto.com... > Michael Pardee wrote: >> These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was kicked >> around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big >> hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC it >> was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges. > > Actually, that doesn't sound that unreasonable. 250 KW for ten minutes is > 41.7 KWH, about $5 worth of electricity. > All we have to do is upgrade our homes' electric service to 1000A and we will be in great shape! |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:09g8n4-ao1.ln1@remote.clifto.com... > Michael Pardee wrote: >> These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was kicked >> around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big >> hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC it >> was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges. > > Actually, that doesn't sound that unreasonable. 250 KW for ten minutes is > 41.7 KWH, about $5 worth of electricity. > All we have to do is upgrade our homes' electric service to 1000A and we will be in great shape! |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:09g8n4-ao1.ln1@remote.clifto.com... > Michael Pardee wrote: >> These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was kicked >> around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big >> hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC it >> was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges. > > Actually, that doesn't sound that unreasonable. 250 KW for ten minutes is > 41.7 KWH, about $5 worth of electricity. > All we have to do is upgrade our homes' electric service to 1000A and we will be in great shape! |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 23:00:09 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote: >"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message >news:09g8n4-ao1.ln1@remote.clifto.com... >> Michael Pardee wrote: >>> These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was kicked >>> around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big >>> hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC it >>> was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges. >> >> Actually, that doesn't sound that unreasonable. 250 KW for ten minutes is >> 41.7 KWH, about $5 worth of electricity. >> >All we have to do is upgrade our homes' electric service to 1000A and we >will be in great shape! Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 worth of gasoline. |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 23:00:09 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote: >"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message >news:09g8n4-ao1.ln1@remote.clifto.com... >> Michael Pardee wrote: >>> These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was kicked >>> around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big >>> hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC it >>> was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges. >> >> Actually, that doesn't sound that unreasonable. 250 KW for ten minutes is >> 41.7 KWH, about $5 worth of electricity. >> >All we have to do is upgrade our homes' electric service to 1000A and we >will be in great shape! Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 worth of gasoline. |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 23:00:09 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote: >"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message >news:09g8n4-ao1.ln1@remote.clifto.com... >> Michael Pardee wrote: >>> These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was kicked >>> around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big >>> hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC it >>> was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges. >> >> Actually, that doesn't sound that unreasonable. 250 KW for ten minutes is >> 41.7 KWH, about $5 worth of electricity. >> >All we have to do is upgrade our homes' electric service to 1000A and we >will be in great shape! Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 worth of gasoline. |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:5gn5a39fglhmuep94hvr40no7e4sidmre8@4ax.com... > On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 23:00:09 -0700, "Michael Pardee" > <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote: > >>"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message >>news:09g8n4-ao1.ln1@remote.clifto.com... >>> Michael Pardee wrote: >>>> These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was >>>> kicked >>>> around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big >>>> hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC >>>> it >>>> was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges. >>> >>> Actually, that doesn't sound that unreasonable. 250 KW for ten minutes >>> is >>> 41.7 KWH, about $5 worth of electricity. >>> >>All we have to do is upgrade our homes' electric service to 1000A and we >>will be in great shape! > > Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to > run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute > charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" > wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A > service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 > worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a > profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill > up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 > worth of gasoline. What? Your house doesn't have 1000 Amp. service? I thought that was the bare minimum. ROFL!!!! Seriously, most houses up here have either 100 or 200 amp service. Back in the 50's, 75 amp was the norm. |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:5gn5a39fglhmuep94hvr40no7e4sidmre8@4ax.com... > On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 23:00:09 -0700, "Michael Pardee" > <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote: > >>"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message >>news:09g8n4-ao1.ln1@remote.clifto.com... >>> Michael Pardee wrote: >>>> These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was >>>> kicked >>>> around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big >>>> hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC >>>> it >>>> was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges. >>> >>> Actually, that doesn't sound that unreasonable. 250 KW for ten minutes >>> is >>> 41.7 KWH, about $5 worth of electricity. >>> >>All we have to do is upgrade our homes' electric service to 1000A and we >>will be in great shape! > > Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to > run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute > charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" > wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A > service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 > worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a > profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill > up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 > worth of gasoline. What? Your house doesn't have 1000 Amp. service? I thought that was the bare minimum. ROFL!!!! Seriously, most houses up here have either 100 or 200 amp service. Back in the 50's, 75 amp was the norm. |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:5gn5a39fglhmuep94hvr40no7e4sidmre8@4ax.com... > On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 23:00:09 -0700, "Michael Pardee" > <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote: > >>"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message >>news:09g8n4-ao1.ln1@remote.clifto.com... >>> Michael Pardee wrote: >>>> These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was >>>> kicked >>>> around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big >>>> hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC >>>> it >>>> was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges. >>> >>> Actually, that doesn't sound that unreasonable. 250 KW for ten minutes >>> is >>> 41.7 KWH, about $5 worth of electricity. >>> >>All we have to do is upgrade our homes' electric service to 1000A and we >>will be in great shape! > > Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to > run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute > charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" > wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A > service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 > worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a > profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill > up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 > worth of gasoline. What? Your house doesn't have 1000 Amp. service? I thought that was the bare minimum. ROFL!!!! Seriously, most houses up here have either 100 or 200 amp service. Back in the 50's, 75 amp was the norm. |
Re: Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote: >Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to >run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute >charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" >wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A >service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 >worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a >profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill >up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 >worth of gasoline. And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service??? What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75 KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only 60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way out of that problem) ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote: >Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to >run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute >charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" >wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A >service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 >worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a >profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill >up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 >worth of gasoline. And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service??? What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75 KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only 60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way out of that problem) ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote: >Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to >run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute >charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" >wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A >service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 >worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a >profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill >up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 >worth of gasoline. And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service??? What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75 KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only 60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way out of that problem) ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
SnoMan wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew > <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote: > >> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to >> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute >> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" >> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A >> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 >> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a >> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill >> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 >> worth of gasoline. > > And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service??? > What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it > or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning > that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your > car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75 > KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you > need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem > with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that > much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it > because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW > of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and > charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even > more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range > will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car > and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge > it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is > going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive > that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being > kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve > because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it > in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow > our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only > 60% of the energy in gas indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff" lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature differences, http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they teach at law schools. > and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus > even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would > only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use > about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way > out of that problem) > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
SnoMan wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew > <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote: > >> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to >> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute >> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" >> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A >> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 >> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a >> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill >> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 >> worth of gasoline. > > And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service??? > What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it > or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning > that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your > car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75 > KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you > need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem > with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that > much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it > because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW > of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and > charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even > more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range > will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car > and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge > it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is > going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive > that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being > kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve > because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it > in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow > our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only > 60% of the energy in gas indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff" lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature differences, http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they teach at law schools. > and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus > even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would > only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use > about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way > out of that problem) > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
SnoMan wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew > <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote: > >> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to >> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute >> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" >> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A >> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 >> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a >> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill >> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 >> worth of gasoline. > > And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service??? > What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it > or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning > that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your > car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75 > KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you > need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem > with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that > much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it > because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW > of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and > charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even > more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range > will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car > and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge > it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is > going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive > that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being > kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve > because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it > in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow > our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only > 60% of the energy in gas indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff" lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature differences, http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they teach at law schools. > and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus > even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would > only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use > about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way > out of that problem) > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:26:04 GMT, SnoMan <admin@snoman.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew ><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote: > >>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to >>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute >>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" >>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A >>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 >>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a >>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill >>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 >>worth of gasoline. > >And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service??? >What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it >or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning >that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your >car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75 >KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you >need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem >with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that >much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it >because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW >of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and >charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even >more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range >will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car >and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge >it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is >going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive >that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being >kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve >because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it >in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow >our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only >60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus >even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would >only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use >about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way >out of that problem) >----------------- >TheSnoMan.com Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than that gallon contains. You have to consider all inputs needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer (from natural gas), fuel used by the tractor that pulls the planter, fuel used by the combine that harvests the corn, fuel used by the trucks to transport the corn, heat used to sterilize the mash, heat used to distill the ethanol, fuel used to transport the ethanol. In short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of ethanol. Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in price. Jack --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000758-3, 07/22/2007 Tested on: 7/22/2007 11:33:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:26:04 GMT, SnoMan <admin@snoman.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew ><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote: > >>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to >>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute >>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" >>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A >>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 >>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a >>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill >>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 >>worth of gasoline. > >And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service??? >What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it >or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning >that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your >car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75 >KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you >need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem >with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that >much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it >because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW >of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and >charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even >more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range >will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car >and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge >it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is >going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive >that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being >kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve >because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it >in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow >our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only >60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus >even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would >only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use >about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way >out of that problem) >----------------- >TheSnoMan.com Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than that gallon contains. You have to consider all inputs needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer (from natural gas), fuel used by the tractor that pulls the planter, fuel used by the combine that harvests the corn, fuel used by the trucks to transport the corn, heat used to sterilize the mash, heat used to distill the ethanol, fuel used to transport the ethanol. In short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of ethanol. Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in price. Jack --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000758-3, 07/22/2007 Tested on: 7/22/2007 11:33:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:26:04 GMT, SnoMan <admin@snoman.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew ><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote: > >>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to >>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute >>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" >>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A >>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 >>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a >>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill >>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 >>worth of gasoline. > >And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service??? >What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it >or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning >that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your >car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75 >KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you >need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem >with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that >much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it >because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW >of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and >charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even >more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range >will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car >and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge >it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is >going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive >that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being >kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve >because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it >in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow >our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only >60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus >even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would >only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use >about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way >out of that problem) >----------------- >TheSnoMan.com Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than that gallon contains. You have to consider all inputs needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer (from natural gas), fuel used by the tractor that pulls the planter, fuel used by the combine that harvests the corn, fuel used by the trucks to transport the corn, heat used to sterilize the mash, heat used to distill the ethanol, fuel used to transport the ethanol. In short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of ethanol. Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in price. Jack --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000758-3, 07/22/2007 Tested on: 7/22/2007 11:33:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message news:iIOdnWiF5sN88D7bnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > SnoMan wrote: >> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew >> <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote: >> >>> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to >>> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute >>> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" >>> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A >>> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 >>> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a >>> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill >>> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 >>> worth of gasoline. >> >> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service??? >> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it >> or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning >> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your >> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75 >> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you >> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem >> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that >> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it >> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW >> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and >> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even >> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range >> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car >> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge >> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is >> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive >> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being >> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve >> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it >> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow >> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only >> 60% of the energy in gas > > indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff" > lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature > differences, > > http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html > > but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they teach > at law schools. Law school 401: How to your client in the ass so bad they need a colostomy. Law school 402: How to the above, with legal impunity. -- ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive! entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs > > >> and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus >> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would >> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use >> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way >> out of that problem) >> ----------------- >> TheSnoMan.com |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message news:iIOdnWiF5sN88D7bnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > SnoMan wrote: >> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew >> <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote: >> >>> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to >>> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute >>> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" >>> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A >>> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 >>> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a >>> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill >>> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 >>> worth of gasoline. >> >> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service??? >> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it >> or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning >> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your >> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75 >> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you >> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem >> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that >> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it >> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW >> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and >> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even >> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range >> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car >> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge >> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is >> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive >> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being >> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve >> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it >> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow >> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only >> 60% of the energy in gas > > indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff" > lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature > differences, > > http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html > > but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they teach > at law schools. Law school 401: How to your client in the ass so bad they need a colostomy. Law school 402: How to the above, with legal impunity. -- ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive! entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs > > >> and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus >> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would >> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use >> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way >> out of that problem) >> ----------------- >> TheSnoMan.com |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message news:iIOdnWiF5sN88D7bnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > SnoMan wrote: >> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew >> <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote: >> >>> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to >>> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute >>> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station" >>> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A >>> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5 >>> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a >>> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill >>> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15 >>> worth of gasoline. >> >> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service??? >> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it >> or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning >> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your >> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75 >> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you >> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem >> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that >> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it >> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW >> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and >> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even >> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range >> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car >> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge >> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is >> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive >> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being >> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve >> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it >> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow >> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only >> 60% of the energy in gas > > indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff" > lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature > differences, > > http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html > > but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they teach > at law schools. Law school 401: How to your client in the ass so bad they need a colostomy. Law school 402: How to the above, with legal impunity. -- ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive! entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs > > >> and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus >> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would >> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use >> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way >> out of that problem) >> ----------------- >> TheSnoMan.com |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
SnoMan wrote:
<...> > And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service??? > What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it > or just under 40KW. Those are units of power, not energy. Power is energy divided by time. Get your units right. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning > that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your > car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75 > KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you > need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem > with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that > much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it > because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW > of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and > charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even > more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range > will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car > and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge > it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is > going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive > that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being > kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve > because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it > in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow > our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only > 60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus > even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would > only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use > about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way > out of that problem) > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
SnoMan wrote:
<...> > And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service??? > What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it > or just under 40KW. Those are units of power, not energy. Power is energy divided by time. Get your units right. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning > that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your > car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75 > KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you > need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem > with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that > much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it > because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW > of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and > charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even > more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range > will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car > and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge > it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is > going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive > that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being > kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve > because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it > in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow > our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only > 60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus > even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would > only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use > about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way > out of that problem) > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
SnoMan wrote:
<...> > And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service??? > What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it > or just under 40KW. Those are units of power, not energy. Power is energy divided by time. Get your units right. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning > that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your > car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75 > KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you > need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem > with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that > much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it > because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW > of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and > charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even > more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range > will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car > and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge > it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is > going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive > that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being > kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve > because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it > in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow > our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only > 60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus > even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would > only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use > about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way > out of that problem) > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
Retired VIP wrote:
<...> > Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon > of ethanol than that gallon contains. Of course. But that energy comes form the sun and is converted to sugar and then ethanol by different organisms. > You have to consider all inputs > needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer > (from natural gas), fuel used by the tractor that pulls the planter, > fuel used by the combine that harvests the corn, fuel used by the > trucks to transport the corn, heat used to sterilize the mash, heat > used to distill the ethanol, fuel used to transport the ethanol. In > short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of > ethanol. It depends on the process used. Today's processes used in the US take about 1 gallon of gasoline to produce about the 1.15 gallons of ethanol. So it is about break even. But, in Brazil, the processes are more efficient and that it takes less than a gallon of fuel to make 1.15 gal of ethanol, so there is a net decrease in the use of fossil fuel. > Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in > price. Boo hoo! Jeff > Jack > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 000758-3, 07/22/2007 > Tested on: 7/22/2007 11:33:27 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
Retired VIP wrote:
<...> > Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon > of ethanol than that gallon contains. Of course. But that energy comes form the sun and is converted to sugar and then ethanol by different organisms. > You have to consider all inputs > needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer > (from natural gas), fuel used by the tractor that pulls the planter, > fuel used by the combine that harvests the corn, fuel used by the > trucks to transport the corn, heat used to sterilize the mash, heat > used to distill the ethanol, fuel used to transport the ethanol. In > short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of > ethanol. It depends on the process used. Today's processes used in the US take about 1 gallon of gasoline to produce about the 1.15 gallons of ethanol. So it is about break even. But, in Brazil, the processes are more efficient and that it takes less than a gallon of fuel to make 1.15 gal of ethanol, so there is a net decrease in the use of fossil fuel. > Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in > price. Boo hoo! Jeff > Jack > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 000758-3, 07/22/2007 > Tested on: 7/22/2007 11:33:27 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
Retired VIP wrote:
<...> > Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon > of ethanol than that gallon contains. Of course. But that energy comes form the sun and is converted to sugar and then ethanol by different organisms. > You have to consider all inputs > needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer > (from natural gas), fuel used by the tractor that pulls the planter, > fuel used by the combine that harvests the corn, fuel used by the > trucks to transport the corn, heat used to sterilize the mash, heat > used to distill the ethanol, fuel used to transport the ethanol. In > short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of > ethanol. It depends on the process used. Today's processes used in the US take about 1 gallon of gasoline to produce about the 1.15 gallons of ethanol. So it is about break even. But, in Brazil, the processes are more efficient and that it takes less than a gallon of fuel to make 1.15 gal of ethanol, so there is a net decrease in the use of fossil fuel. > Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in > price. Boo hoo! Jeff > Jack > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 000758-3, 07/22/2007 > Tested on: 7/22/2007 11:33:27 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
Ummmm ok I like this logic, but consider that if they weren't growing it in
the first place, they would be using 0 gallons of fuel. Not break even if you ask me... Jeff wrote: ><...> > >> Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon >> of ethanol than that gallon contains. > >Of course. But that energy comes form the sun and is converted to sugar >and then ethanol by different organisms. > >> You have to consider all inputs >> needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer >[quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of >> ethanol. > >It depends on the process used. Today's processes used in the US take >about 1 gallon of gasoline to produce about the 1.15 gallons of ethanol. >So it is about break even. > >But, in Brazil, the processes are more efficient and that it takes less >than a gallon of fuel to make 1.15 gal of ethanol, so there is a net >decrease in the use of fossil fuel. > >> Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in >> price. > >Boo hoo! > >Jeff > >> Jack >> >[quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. >> http://www.avast.com -- Message posted via CarKB.com http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200707/1 |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
Ummmm ok I like this logic, but consider that if they weren't growing it in
the first place, they would be using 0 gallons of fuel. Not break even if you ask me... Jeff wrote: ><...> > >> Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon >> of ethanol than that gallon contains. > >Of course. But that energy comes form the sun and is converted to sugar >and then ethanol by different organisms. > >> You have to consider all inputs >> needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer >[quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of >> ethanol. > >It depends on the process used. Today's processes used in the US take >about 1 gallon of gasoline to produce about the 1.15 gallons of ethanol. >So it is about break even. > >But, in Brazil, the processes are more efficient and that it takes less >than a gallon of fuel to make 1.15 gal of ethanol, so there is a net >decrease in the use of fossil fuel. > >> Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in >> price. > >Boo hoo! > >Jeff > >> Jack >> >[quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. >> http://www.avast.com -- Message posted via CarKB.com http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200707/1 |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
Ummmm ok I like this logic, but consider that if they weren't growing it in
the first place, they would be using 0 gallons of fuel. Not break even if you ask me... Jeff wrote: ><...> > >> Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon >> of ethanol than that gallon contains. > >Of course. But that energy comes form the sun and is converted to sugar >and then ethanol by different organisms. > >> You have to consider all inputs >> needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer >[quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of >> ethanol. > >It depends on the process used. Today's processes used in the US take >about 1 gallon of gasoline to produce about the 1.15 gallons of ethanol. >So it is about break even. > >But, in Brazil, the processes are more efficient and that it takes less >than a gallon of fuel to make 1.15 gal of ethanol, so there is a net >decrease in the use of fossil fuel. > >> Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in >> price. > >Boo hoo! > >Jeff > >> Jack >> >[quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. >> http://www.avast.com -- Message posted via CarKB.com http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200707/1 |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
jim beam wrote: > snip > > indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff" > lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature > differences, > > http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html > > but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they > teach at law schools. > > Oh gawd... Don't get me started on the ethenol scam. Of course if you have stock in Archer Daniels, you might be sitting in fat city. Ethanol..... Not only does it cost more to produce a gallon than it delivers in BTUs, diversion of corn production has caused grocery prices to skyrocket. And you can bet your bottom bippy that the family farms ain't cashin' in on the bonanza. <sigh> JT |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
jim beam wrote: > snip > > indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff" > lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature > differences, > > http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html > > but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they > teach at law schools. > > Oh gawd... Don't get me started on the ethenol scam. Of course if you have stock in Archer Daniels, you might be sitting in fat city. Ethanol..... Not only does it cost more to produce a gallon than it delivers in BTUs, diversion of corn production has caused grocery prices to skyrocket. And you can bet your bottom bippy that the family farms ain't cashin' in on the bonanza. <sigh> JT |
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
jim beam wrote: > snip > > indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff" > lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature > differences, > > http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html > > but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they > teach at law schools. > > Oh gawd... Don't get me started on the ethenol scam. Of course if you have stock in Archer Daniels, you might be sitting in fat city. Ethanol..... Not only does it cost more to produce a gallon than it delivers in BTUs, diversion of corn production has caused grocery prices to skyrocket. And you can bet your bottom bippy that the family farms ain't cashin' in on the bonanza. <sigh> JT |
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