1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

I purchased a 1986 Honda LXI 5spd FI 2.0 for my son. He wanted
something that would get good gas mileage and get him back and forth
to college. He has a good head on his shoulders.

The car was sold as-is with 2 problems. No fuel to the engine and the
gas tank gauge does not register. The owner indicated that there may
also be a fuel injector not firing properly.

Let me ask, do you think this is going to be as simple as it sounds?
I am leaning towards the EFI Main relay, which I believe to be under
the dash in this model. Its been a while since I have poked around in
a Honda, but somethings are always the same. The previous owner
indicated that there was no hum from the fuel pump and he assumed it
to be the pump. I have ordered one just in case but don't the odds
favor the relay?

Please give me your serious thoughts on the subject. I intend to redo
the interior and exterior of the car for both me and my son to use.
Our other car is a 1997 Jaguar XJ6 that I have completely retooled and
retuned. I feel like this Honda should be as easy to work on as well.

Any and all advice, pictures, references and resources are
appreciated. Please also know that I intend to contribute in any way
shape or form that I can to this forum.

Peace!
Jack

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:916f8b8b-68ab-458d-b459-ba24854aae42@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>I purchased a 1986 Honda LXI 5spd FI 2.0 for my son. He wanted
> something that would get good gas mileage and get him back and forth
> to college. He has a good head on his shoulders.
>
> The car was sold as-is with 2 problems. No fuel to the engine and the
> gas tank gauge does not register. The owner indicated that there may
> also be a fuel injector not firing properly.
>
> Let me ask, do you think this is going to be as simple as it sounds?
> I am leaning towards the EFI Main relay, which I believe to be under
> the dash in this model. Its been a while since I have poked around in
> a Honda, but somethings are always the same. The previous owner
> indicated that there was no hum from the fuel pump and he assumed it
> to be the pump. I have ordered one just in case but don't the odds
> favor the relay?
>
> Please give me your serious thoughts on the subject. I intend to redo
> the interior and exterior of the car for both me and my son to use.
> Our other car is a 1997 Jaguar XJ6 that I have completely retooled and
> retuned. I feel like this Honda should be as easy to work on as well.
>
> Any and all advice, pictures, references and resources are
> appreciated. Please also know that I intend to contribute in any way
> shape or form that I can to this forum.
>
> Peace!
> Jack
>

I think the odds rather heavily favor the relay.

Mike

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in news:916f8b8b-68ab-458d-b459-
ba24854aae42@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:

> I purchased a 1986 Honda LXI 5spd FI 2.0 for my son. He wanted
> something that would get good gas mileage and get him back and forth
> to college. He has a good head on his shoulders.
>
> The car was sold as-is with 2 problems. No fuel to the engine and the
> gas tank gauge does not register. The owner indicated that there may
> also be a fuel injector not firing properly.
>
> Let me ask, do you think this is going to be as simple as it sounds?
> I am leaning towards the EFI Main relay, which I believe to be under
> the dash in this model. Its been a while since I have poked around in
> a Honda, but somethings are always the same. The previous owner
> indicated that there was no hum from the fuel pump and he assumed it
> to be the pump. I have ordered one just in case but don't the odds
> favor the relay?
>



To test the Main Relay:
1) Turn ignition key to "II" and leave it there. The Check Engine light
should immediately come on, accompanied by a loud click from under the
dash.
2) Two seconds later, the Check Engine should go off, whereupon there
should be another loud click from under the dash.
3) Turn the key to "III". The starter should crank. At the identical same
instant as the starter engages, there will be one more click from under the
dash. This one will be hard to hear on account of the starter's noise.

Remove the gas cap. Have a helper with good hearing stand with an ear close
to the gas filler hole. During step 2, while the Check Engine light is on,
you should hear a whine or hum coming from the fuel filler hole.

Try the above. What do you find?

Oh, also check ALL the fuses in BOTH fuse boxes. Fuse #1 usually controls
the ignition. And when the key is turned to "II", do ALL the dash idiot
lights illuminate?



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

On Dec 13, 8:59 am, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:916f8b8b-68ab-458d-b459-
> ba24854aa...@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > I purchased a 1986 Honda LXI 5spd FI 2.0 for my son. He wanted
> > something that would get good gas mileage and get him back and forth
> > to college. He has a good head on his shoulders.
>
> > The car was sold as-is with 2 problems. No fuel to the engine and the
> > gas tank gauge does not register. The owner indicated that there may
> > also be a fuel injector not firing properly.
>
> > Let me ask, do you think this is going to be as simple as it sounds?
> > I am leaning towards the EFI Main relay, which I believe to be under
> > the dash in this model. Its been a while since I have poked around in
> > a Honda, but somethings are always the same. The previous owner
> > indicated that there was no hum from the fuel pump and he assumed it
> > to be the pump. I have ordered one just in case but don't the odds
> > favor the relay?
>
> To test the Main Relay:
> 1) Turn ignition key to "II" and leave it there. The Check Engine light
> should immediately come on, accompanied by a loud click from under the
> dash.
> 2) Two seconds later, the Check Engine should go off, whereupon there
> should be another loud click from under the dash.
> 3) Turn the key to "III". The starter should crank. At the identical same
> instant as the starter engages, there will be one more click from under the
> dash. This one will be hard to hear on account of the starter's noise.
>
> Remove the gas cap. Have a helper with good hearing stand with an ear close
> to the gas filler hole. During step 2, while the Check Engine light is on,
> you should hear a whine or hum coming from the fuel filler hole.
>
> Try the above. What do you find?
>
> Oh, also check ALL the fuses in BOTH fuse boxes. Fuse #1 usually controls
> the ignition. And when the key is turned to "II", do ALL the dash idiot
> lights illuminate?
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Awesome help so far. What I have found was that two of the more
common problems were at fault.

#1 The EFI Main Relay (RV0028 I believe) did have cracks around one of
the soldered posts. When I fixed this I gained all the proper clicks
at all the proper times, HOWEVER the fuel pump did not hum as it
should.

#2 When I inspected the fuel pump I found that it was receiving power
but not coming on. I replaced the fuel pump and the car started
immediately.

VOILA! you say? Well kind of. I am still ignorant as to proper
cylinder numbering as I am too tired to look it up this evening. BUT
the cylinder far opposite the distributor cap is missing for some
reason. I KNOW it is receiving spark and has a good plug because I
replaced the plug and got the snot shocked out of me when my
enthusiastic son turned the ignition on too soon. When I disconnect
the wire to that plug the engine runs the same as when connected (new
wires as of today btw). Also when I disconnect the harness from the
injector the engine idle remains the same (rough, miss, etc...) The
car seems to run up and down the road fine, but that last cylinder on
the right is just not firing, or not firing enough for it's absence to
make a difference. I used my stethoscope and all four injectors are
clicking right along.

What should I look for now? Timing? Valves? Could the injector click
and still be bad? I used a light to test the injector harness and I
know it is receiving signal. Please point me in the right direction.

Many thanks for your help so far.

Peace!
Jack

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:c2e48a6e-61e7-48a6-8b68-7b1f9605ab25@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:

> On Dec 13, 8:59 am, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
>> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:916f8b8b-68ab-458d-b459-
>> ba24854aa...@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>
>>
>> > I purchased a 1986 Honda LXI 5spd FI 2.0 for my son. He wanted
>> > something that would get good gas mileage and get him back and
>> > forth to college. He has a good head on his shoulders.
>>
>> > The car was sold as-is with 2 problems. No fuel to the engine and
>> > th
> e
>> > gas tank gauge does not register. The owner indicated that there
>> > may also be a fuel injector not firing properly.
>>
>> > Let me ask, do you think this is going to be as simple as it
>> > sounds? I am leaning towards the EFI Main relay, which I believe to
>> > be under the dash in this model. Its been a while since I have
>> > poked around i
> n
>> > a Honda, but somethings are always the same. The previous owner
>> > indicated that there was no hum from the fuel pump and he assumed
>> > it to be the pump. I have ordered one just in case but don't the
>> > odds favor the relay?
>>
>> To test the Main Relay:
>> 1) Turn ignition key to "II" and leave it there. The Check Engine
>> light should immediately come on, accompanied by a loud click from
>> under the dash.
>> 2) Two seconds later, the Check Engine should go off, whereupon there
>> should be another loud click from under the dash.
>> 3) Turn the key to "III". The starter should crank. At the identical
>> same instant as the starter engages, there will be one more click
>> from under t
> he
>> dash. This one will be hard to hear on account of the starter's
>> noise.
>>
>> Remove the gas cap. Have a helper with good hearing stand with an ear
>> clo
> se
>> to the gas filler hole. During step 2, while the Check Engine light
>> is on
> ,
>> you should hear a whine or hum coming from the fuel filler hole.
>>
>> Try the above. What do you find?
>>
>> Oh, also check ALL the fuses in BOTH fuse boxes. Fuse #1 usually
>> controls the ignition. And when the key is turned to "II", do ALL the
>> dash idiot lights illuminate?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Awesome help so far. What I have found was that two of the more
> common problems were at fault.
>
> #1 The EFI Main Relay (RV0028 I believe) did have cracks around one of
> the soldered posts. When I fixed this I gained all the proper clicks
> at all the proper times, HOWEVER the fuel pump did not hum as it
> should.
>
> #2 When I inspected the fuel pump I found that it was receiving power
> but not coming on. I replaced the fuel pump and the car started
> immediately.
>
> VOILA! you say? Well kind of. I am still ignorant as to proper
> cylinder numbering as I am too tired to look it up this evening.




1-3-4-2, with #1 being closest to the timing belt.

#1 on the distributor will be the lowest terminal towards the firewall.
#3 will be uppermost nearest the firewall, and so on.




> BUT
> the cylinder far opposite the distributor cap is missing for some
> reason.



That's #4.



> I KNOW it is receiving spark and has a good plug because I
> replaced the plug and got the snot shocked out of me when my
> enthusiastic son turned the ignition on too soon. When I disconnect
> the wire to that plug the engine runs the same as when connected (new
> wires as of today btw). Also when I disconnect the harness from the
> injector the engine idle remains the same (rough, miss, etc...) The
> car seems to run up and down the road fine, but that last cylinder on
> the right is just not firing, or not firing enough for it's absence to
> make a difference. I used my stethoscope and all four injectors are
> clicking right along.
>
> What should I look for now? Timing? Valves? Could the injector click
> and still be bad? I used a light to test the injector harness and I
> know it is receiving signal. Please point me in the right direction.
>



Suspect bad compression. This can be due to several things, from broken
rings to burnt valves. A compression test will tell you for sure that
this is the problem.

What can also happen on engines that have sat for a very long time is
that a valve can stick slightly open, or the rings can be sticking on
their carbon deposits.

Take the car out for a good run, making sure to come close to the
redline a couple of times. Take note of how the engine behaves after
that. Any improvement? When it cools down, check the valve clearances to
make sure they're in spec, then do a compression test if there's still a
problem.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

On Dec 14, 4:16 pm, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:c2e48a6e-61e7-48a6-8b68-7b1f9605ab25@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 13, 8:59 am, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> >> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >> news:916f8b8b-68ab-458d-b459-
> >> ba24854aa...@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> > I purchased a 1986 Honda LXI 5spd FI 2.0 for my son. He wanted
> >> > something that would get good gas mileage and get him back and
> >> > forth to college. He has a good head on his shoulders.
>
> >> > The car was sold as-is with 2 problems. No fuel to the engine and
> >> > th
> > e
> >> > gas tank gauge does not register. The owner indicated that there
> >> > may also be a fuel injector not firing properly.
>
> >> > Let me ask, do you think this is going to be as simple as it
> >> > sounds? I am leaning towards the EFI Main relay, which I believe to
> >> > be under the dash in this model. Its been a while since I have
> >> > poked around i
> > n
> >> > a Honda, but somethings are always the same. The previous owner
> >> > indicated that there was no hum from the fuel pump and he assumed
> >> > it to be the pump. I have ordered one just in case but don't the
> >> > odds favor the relay?
>
> >> To test the Main Relay:
> >> 1) Turn ignition key to "II" and leave it there. The Check Engine
> >> light should immediately come on, accompanied by a loud click from
> >> under the dash.
> >> 2) Two seconds later, the Check Engine should go off, whereupon there
> >> should be another loud click from under the dash.
> >> 3) Turn the key to "III". The starter should crank. At the identical
> >> same instant as the starter engages, there will be one more click
> >> from under t
> > he
> >> dash. This one will be hard to hear on account of the starter's
> >> noise.
>
> >> Remove the gas cap. Have a helper with good hearing stand with an ear
> >> clo
> > se
> >> to the gas filler hole. During step 2, while the Check Engine light
> >> is on
> > ,
> >> you should hear a whine or hum coming from the fuel filler hole.
>
> >> Try the above. What do you find?
>
> >> Oh, also check ALL the fuses in BOTH fuse boxes. Fuse #1 usually
> >> controls the ignition. And when the key is turned to "II", do ALL the
> >> dash idiot lights illuminate?
>
> > Awesome help so far. What I have found was that two of the more
> > common problems were at fault.
>
> > #1 The EFI Main Relay (RV0028 I believe) did have cracks around one of
> > the soldered posts. When I fixed this I gained all the proper clicks
> > at all the proper times, HOWEVER the fuel pump did not hum as it
> > should.
>
> > #2 When I inspected the fuel pump I found that it was receiving power
> > but not coming on. I replaced the fuel pump and the car started
> > immediately.
>
> > VOILA! you say? Well kind of. I am still ignorant as to proper
> > cylinder numbering as I am too tired to look it up this evening.
>
> 1-3-4-2, with #1 being closest to the timing belt.
>
> #1 on the distributor will be the lowest terminal towards the firewall.
> #3 will be uppermost nearest the firewall, and so on.
>
> > BUT
> > the cylinder far opposite the distributor cap is missing for some
> > reason.
>
> That's #4.
>
> > I KNOW it is receiving spark and has a good plug because I
> > replaced the plug and got the snot shocked out of me when my
> > enthusiastic son turned the ignition on too soon. When I disconnect
> > the wire to that plug the engine runs the same as when connected (new
> > wires as of today btw). Also when I disconnect the harness from the
> > injector the engine idle remains the same (rough, miss, etc...) The
> > car seems to run up and down the road fine, but that last cylinder on
> > the right is just not firing, or not firing enough for it's absence to
> > make a difference. I used my stethoscope and all four injectors are
> > clicking right along.
>
> > What should I look for now? Timing? Valves? Could the injector click
> > and still be bad? I used a light to test the injector harness and I
> > know it is receiving signal. Please point me in the right direction.
>
> Suspect bad compression. This can be due to several things, from broken
> rings to burnt valves. A compression test will tell you for sure that
> this is the problem.
>
> What can also happen on engines that have sat for a very long time is
> that a valve can stick slightly open, or the rings can be sticking on
> their carbon deposits.
>
> Take the car out for a good run, making sure to come close to the
> redline a couple of times. Take note of how the engine behaves after
> that. Any improvement? When it cools down, check the valve clearances to
> make sure they're in spec, then do a compression test if there's still a
> problem.
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Ok, I think there might be some misunderstanding from my description.
If the timing belt is on the opposite side of the engine as the
distributor cap (the far end from the dc) then the cylinder I am
having trouble with would be cylinder #1 right? Since it is the one
right next to the timing belt? I think my language was a little
ambiguous.

At this point I have pulled the injectors and swapped 1 with 2 and the
problem stayed with cylinder #1, so I am pretty sure that means a
stuck valve, bad spring or something like that in #1. I will run a
compression test in the morning. That is the next logical step
right? It is not blowing oil, so that means no hole in the cylinder
head. Right???

Does anyone happen to have a picture tutorial for swapping out a
valve, spring or lifter or what have you?

Again, thanks for the marvelous input and next time I will try and be
more patient on the system to post my posts.

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

On Dec 14, 4:16 pm, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:c2e48a6e-61e7-48a6-8b68-7b1f9605ab25@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 13, 8:59 am, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> >> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >> news:916f8b8b-68ab-458d-b459-
> >> ba24854aa...@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> > I purchased a 1986 Honda LXI 5spd FI 2.0 for my son. He wanted
> >> > something that would get good gas mileage and get him back and
> >> > forth to college. He has a good head on his shoulders.
>
> >> > The car was sold as-is with 2 problems. No fuel to the engine and
> >> > th
> > e
> >> > gas tank gauge does not register. The owner indicated that there
> >> > may also be a fuel injector not firing properly.
>
> >> > Let me ask, do you think this is going to be as simple as it
> >> > sounds? I am leaning towards the EFI Main relay, which I believe to
> >> > be under the dash in this model. Its been a while since I have
> >> > poked around i
> > n
> >> > a Honda, but somethings are always the same. The previous owner
> >> > indicated that there was no hum from the fuel pump and he assumed
> >> > it to be the pump. I have ordered one just in case but don't the
> >> > odds favor the relay?
>
> >> To test the Main Relay:
> >> 1) Turn ignition key to "II" and leave it there. The Check Engine
> >> light should immediately come on, accompanied by a loud click from
> >> under the dash.
> >> 2) Two seconds later, the Check Engine should go off, whereupon there
> >> should be another loud click from under the dash.
> >> 3) Turn the key to "III". The starter should crank. At the identical
> >> same instant as the starter engages, there will be one more click
> >> from under t
> > he
> >> dash. This one will be hard to hear on account of the starter's
> >> noise.
>
> >> Remove the gas cap. Have a helper with good hearing stand with an ear
> >> clo
> > se
> >> to the gas filler hole. During step 2, while the Check Engine light
> >> is on
> > ,
> >> you should hear a whine or hum coming from the fuel filler hole.
>
> >> Try the above. What do you find?
>
> >> Oh, also check ALL the fuses in BOTH fuse boxes. Fuse #1 usually
> >> controls the ignition. And when the key is turned to "II", do ALL the
> >> dash idiot lights illuminate?
>
> > Awesome help so far. What I have found was that two of the more
> > common problems were at fault.
>
> > #1 The EFI Main Relay (RV0028 I believe) did have cracks around one of
> > the soldered posts. When I fixed this I gained all the proper clicks
> > at all the proper times, HOWEVER the fuel pump did not hum as it
> > should.
>
> > #2 When I inspected the fuel pump I found that it was receiving power
> > but not coming on. I replaced the fuel pump and the car started
> > immediately.
>
> > VOILA! you say? Well kind of. I am still ignorant as to proper
> > cylinder numbering as I am too tired to look it up this evening.
>
> 1-3-4-2, with #1 being closest to the timing belt.
>
> #1 on the distributor will be the lowest terminal towards the firewall.
> #3 will be uppermost nearest the firewall, and so on.
>
> > BUT
> > the cylinder far opposite the distributor cap is missing for some
> > reason.
>
> That's #4.
>
> > I KNOW it is receiving spark and has a good plug because I
> > replaced the plug and got the snot shocked out of me when my
> > enthusiastic son turned the ignition on too soon. When I disconnect
> > the wire to that plug the engine runs the same as when connected (new
> > wires as of today btw). Also when I disconnect the harness from the
> > injector the engine idle remains the same (rough, miss, etc...) The
> > car seems to run up and down the road fine, but that last cylinder on
> > the right is just not firing, or not firing enough for it's absence to
> > make a difference. I used my stethoscope and all four injectors are
> > clicking right along.
>
> > What should I look for now? Timing? Valves? Could the injector click
> > and still be bad? I used a light to test the injector harness and I
> > know it is receiving signal. Please point me in the right direction.
>
> Suspect bad compression. This can be due to several things, from broken
> rings to burnt valves. A compression test will tell you for sure that
> this is the problem.
>
> What can also happen on engines that have sat for a very long time is
> that a valve can stick slightly open, or the rings can be sticking on
> their carbon deposits.
>
> Take the car out for a good run, making sure to come close to the
> redline a couple of times. Take note of how the engine behaves after
> that. Any improvement? When it cools down, check the valve clearances to
> make sure they're in spec, then do a compression test if there's still a
> problem.
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Ok, couple more hours later. I did the "Italian Tune-Up" so named
for the Italian Cars of the 50s and 60s that responded so well to just
being taken out and "Blown Out" you know, redlining the thing. I read
a forum where someone got upset and made a whole racial thing out of
the term "Italian Tune-Up" so I thought I would qualify the statement
with the proper definition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_tuneup

Redlining the thing seems to have done "something"???? but I am not
sure what. There is no black, white or blue smoke coming out of the
exhaust. The engine does idle a little smoother, but unplugging the
spark plug wire on cylinder #1 still has ZERO effect. I took the
valve cover off and the rocker arms are all in place and the springs
seem to be working properly. I ran it for a few moments sans cover to
watch. Wouldn't this point toward carbon build up on the valve
causing it not to close fully? The inside of the valve cover is also
covered in that black jellified oil. At some point this thing got too
hot or too low on oil or something.

The good. It's running, and has speed. It isn't gulping gas. It
isn't burning, at least at a rate noticeable in the last few days.
Tires are new.

The bad. Cylinder #1 still missing. I will do the compression test in
the morning at a friend's shop. It needs an alignment, I will take it
to sears to a friend there. The outside of the air intake filter was
COVERED in acorns. That might give you an idea as to how long it
sat. The little fella was ready for the winter and I drove off with
his nuts, LOL.

Tegger, the valve clearance specs are going to be in my manual right?
Working on this Honda is almost as much fun as working on my Jaguar.
They are both well built machines.

Keep the suggestions and ideas coming. I am trying to give as much
info as I can because something I observe may mean more to an
experienced person than it does to me. These places are awesome. Yay
for the free exchange of ideas and information.

Peace!
Jack

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:d7147046-bcae-4c75-93ad-3fba04800963@13g2000yql.googlegroups.com:


>
> Ok, I think there might be some misunderstanding from my description.
> If the timing belt is on the opposite side of the engine as the
> distributor cap (the far end from the dc) then the cylinder I am
> having trouble with would be cylinder #1 right? Since it is the one
> right next to the timing belt?



That's #1, yes.



> I think my language was a little
> ambiguous.
>
> At this point I have pulled the injectors and swapped 1 with 2 and the
> problem stayed with cylinder #1, so I am pretty sure that means a
> stuck valve, bad spring or something like that in #1. I will run a
> compression test in the morning. That is the next logical step
> right? It is not blowing oil, so that means no hole in the cylinder
> head. Right???



The proper approach: Take the car for a spin as described before. If it's a
valve sticking, this may free it up. If no change after the drive, check
the valve clearances to make sure they're in spec, then do a compression
test.

I think you'll find #1 to be near zero or at least significantly lower than
the others.



>
> Does anyone happen to have a picture tutorial for swapping out a
> valve, spring or lifter or what have you?


If it's a burnt valve, you need to either swap in a known-good head, or get
the existing one rebuilt by a shop.

If it's a broken ring, the engine is scrap.

If it's rings that are worn out, the engine is scrap (economically,
anyway).

If it's rings that are stuck with carbon, there's another fix.




--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:fe8e5248-9568-4883-ba4d-a87e51900eea@z1g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:


>
> Tegger, the valve clearance specs are going to be in my manual right?



Yes.

I think you've got near zero compression in the #1 cylinder, and there are
several possible reasons for this.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9B755F34CF902tegger@208.90.168.18...
>
> I think you've got near zero compression in the #1 cylinder, and there are
> several possible reasons for this.
>
>
>
> --
> Tegger

In fact, compression that bad doesn't need a fancy guage to test it. If you
pull the crank through the four cylinders with a socket on the crank bolt
(CCW remember) you will feel the compression. If you feel three cylinders
and nothing where the fourth should be that is a good clue.

Mike

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

"Michael Pardee" <null@null.org> wrote in
news:pt2dnSICLsmZA9vUnZ2dnUVZ_h-dnZ2d@sedona.net:

> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9B755F34CF902tegger@208.90.168.18...
>>
>> I think you've got near zero compression in the #1 cylinder, and
>> there are several possible reasons for this.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> In fact, compression that bad doesn't need a fancy guage to test it.
> If you pull the crank through the four cylinders with a socket on the
> crank bolt (CCW remember) you will feel the compression. If you feel
> three cylinders and nothing where the fourth should be that is a good
> clue.
>


Good point. You should feel a consistent resistance to your turning as each
cylinder passes TDC on compression.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

On Dec 15, 12:12 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
> "Tegger" <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9B755F34CF902tegger@208.90.168.18...
>
>
>
> > I think you've got near zero compression in the #1 cylinder, and there are
> > several possible reasons for this.
>
> > --
> > Tegger
>
> In fact, compression that bad doesn't need a fancy guage to test it. If you
> pull the crank through the four cylinders with a socket on the crank bolt
> (CCW remember) you will feel the compression. If you feel three cylinders
> and nothing where the fourth should be that is a good clue.
>
> Mike

Compression on cylinder #1 is 75. We put a little oil in and achieved
150 just like the other three cylinders. As soon as I went back to
the spark plug the compression was lost again. Could this be as
simple as a stuck ring, not opening up against the cylinder wall?

Any other ideas?

Peace!
Jack

btw, it does run rather well on just three cylinders. LOL

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:7aadb41b-27f9-4691-bd27-9bec476b7440@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com:


>
> Compression on cylinder #1 is 75. We put a little oil in and achieved
> 150 just like the other three cylinders. As soon as I went back to
> the spark plug the compression was lost again. Could this be as
> simple as a stuck ring, not opening up against the cylinder wall?



Seventy-five PSI dry? You've got a dead cylinder. /Minimum/ would be about
150. You're expecting something close to 170 brand-new.

If oil achieved 150 on that cylinder, then the rings are shot. It's
slightly possible that carbon is the culprit, but if your Italian Tuneup
didn't free it up, it's probably just worn out.



>
> Any other ideas?



Pull the plugs again. Turn the engine (CCW!) so all the cylinders are half
way. Put a tablespoon or so of kerosene or diesel into each spark plug
hole, enough that it runs off the the piston tops to the edges. Leave it a
couple of weeks.

Crank the engine over a couple of times by hand (observing to make sure
there's not so much kerosene as to cause hydro-lock when the plugs are
returned), put the plugs back, then take it for another spirited drive. No
change? Time for a new motor.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7aadb41b-27f9-4691-bd27-9bec476b7440@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 15, 12:12 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:

Compression on cylinder #1 is 75. We put a little oil in and achieved
150 just like the other three cylinders. As soon as I went back to
the spark plug the compression was lost again. Could this be as
simple as a stuck ring, not opening up against the cylinder wall?

Any other ideas?

Peace!
Jack

btw, it does run rather well on just three cylinders. LOL

==========================================
I wouldn't hope too much or give up hope at this point. In the '60s we used
to hear about piston rings being stuck as you describe, but I never actually
encountered one. OTOH... you describe sludge on the underside of the valve
cover so it isn't far-fetched. What's the harm of putting an ounce or so of
lacquer thinner into the spark plug hole and following it up half an hour
later with enough oil to lubricate it again? I'd recommend running the
engine long enough to warm it up and boil off the lacquer thinner before
repeating the process, but it sure beats a teardown. Hmm... "Ask"ing: "do
piston rings get stuck" I see all sorts of recommendations to get them
unstuck when the piston is out of the engine, and it still sounds gnarly.
Best of luck, Jack!

Anyway, now you know what the nature of the problem is.

Mike

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

On Dec 15, 6:47 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
> "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7aadb41b-27f9-4691-bd27-9bec476b7440@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 15, 12:12 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
>
> Compression on cylinder #1 is 75. We put a little oil in and achieved
> 150 just like the other three cylinders. As soon as I went back to
> the spark plug the compression was lost again. Could this be as
> simple as a stuck ring, not opening up against the cylinder wall?
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> Peace!
> Jack
>
> btw, it does run rather well on just three cylinders. LOL
>
> ==========================================
> I wouldn't hope too much or give up hope at this point. In the '60s we used
> to hear about piston rings being stuck as you describe, but I never actually
> encountered one. OTOH... you describe sludge on the underside of the valve
> cover so it isn't far-fetched. What's the harm of putting an ounce or so of
> lacquer thinner into the spark plug hole and following it up half an hour
> later with enough oil to lubricate it again? I'd recommend running the
> engine long enough to warm it up and boil off the lacquer thinner before
> repeating the process, but it sure beats a teardown. Hmm... "Ask"ing: "do
> piston rings get stuck" I see all sorts of recommendations to get them
> unstuck when the piston is out of the engine, and it still sounds gnarly.
> Best of luck, Jack!
>
> Anyway, now you know what the nature of the problem is.
>
> Mike

Sounds like both the kerosene and the lacquer thinner approach are the
same sort of fix. Tegger, were you talking about leaving the kerosene
sit in the engine, unmoved for a couple of weeks? I may not have the
luxury of letting it sit that long.

I have used lacquer thinner before in small engine repair. I works.
Stabil does the same thing though. It cleans out stuff in the same
fashion. Ive watched it completely dissolve carbon and varnish on a
weedeater engine.

OKAY, here's the other big question. Until it is warmer and I can
pull this off the road and effect repairs, what will it do to the
engine to run it on 3 pistons? I'm not kidding when I say it is
running fine. What will happen to the engine if it is run this way?
It only has 168,000 miles on it. I have seen these engines on eBay
for 175, does anyone know anything about them??

I'm going to try the lacquer thinner I think.

Thanks again, you guys are a lot of help.

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a841d736-9b38-4c0d-a076-28645bb8aa23@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
Sounds like both the kerosene and the lacquer thinner approach are the
same sort of fix. Tegger, were you talking about leaving the kerosene
sit in the engine, unmoved for a couple of weeks? I may not have the
luxury of letting it sit that long.

I have used lacquer thinner before in small engine repair. I works.
Stabil does the same thing though. It cleans out stuff in the same
fashion. Ive watched it completely dissolve carbon and varnish on a
weedeater engine.

OKAY, here's the other big question. Until it is warmer and I can
pull this off the road and effect repairs, what will it do to the
engine to run it on 3 pistons? I'm not kidding when I say it is
running fine. What will happen to the engine if it is run this way?
It only has 168,000 miles on it. I have seen these engines on eBay
for 175, does anyone know anything about them??

I'm going to try the lacquer thinner I think.

Thanks again, you guys are a lot of help.
=============================================

You should be okay as long as you unplug the fuel injector. Don't expect
great fuel economy, but it should be drivable. Who knows - maybe the ring
(if stuck) will work itself loose while you drive.

Mike

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

On Dec 15, 9:05 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
> "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a841d736-9b38-4c0d-a076-28645bb8aa23@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
> Sounds like both the kerosene and the lacquer thinner approach are the
> same sort of fix. Tegger, were you talking about leaving the kerosene
> sit in the engine, unmoved for a couple of weeks? I may not have the
> luxury of letting it sit that long.
>
> I have used lacquer thinner before in small engine repair. I works.
> Stabil does the same thing though. It cleans out stuff in the same
> fashion. Ive watched it completely dissolve carbon and varnish on a
> weedeater engine.
>
> OKAY, here's the other big question. Until it is warmer and I can
> pull this off the road and effect repairs, what will it do to the
> engine to run it on 3 pistons? I'm not kidding when I say it is
> running fine. What will happen to the engine if it is run this way?
> It only has 168,000 miles on it. I have seen these engines on eBay
> for 175, does anyone know anything about them??
>
> I'm going to try the lacquer thinner I think.
>
> Thanks again, you guys are a lot of help.
> =============================================
>
> You should be okay as long as you unplug the fuel injector. Don't expect
> great fuel economy, but it should be drivable. Who knows - maybe the ring
> (if stuck) will work itself loose while you drive.
>
> Mike

Should I also disconnect the corresponding spark plug?

The fuel economy has been 25mpg so far. Hey, what's wrong with a
three cylinder engine after all?? I know a lot of people who aren't
using all cylinders.

Peace!
Jack

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0d1ee915-a28c-41bb-90b9-f8c74fc20b9c@v15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 15, 9:05 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
> "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a841d736-9b38-4c0d-a076-28645bb8aa23@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
> Sounds like both the kerosene and the lacquer thinner approach are the
> same sort of fix. Tegger, were you talking about leaving the kerosene
> sit in the engine, unmoved for a couple of weeks? I may not have the
> luxury of letting it sit that long.
>
> I have used lacquer thinner before in small engine repair. I works.
> Stabil does the same thing though. It cleans out stuff in the same
> fashion. Ive watched it completely dissolve carbon and varnish on a
> weedeater engine.
>
> OKAY, here's the other big question. Until it is warmer and I can
> pull this off the road and effect repairs, what will it do to the
> engine to run it on 3 pistons? I'm not kidding when I say it is
> running fine. What will happen to the engine if it is run this way?
> It only has 168,000 miles on it. I have seen these engines on eBay
> for 175, does anyone know anything about them??
>
> I'm going to try the lacquer thinner I think.
>
> Thanks again, you guys are a lot of help.
> =============================================
>
> You should be okay as long as you unplug the fuel injector. Don't expect
> great fuel economy, but it should be drivable. Who knows - maybe the ring
> (if stuck) will work itself loose while you drive.
>
> Mike

Should I also disconnect the corresponding spark plug?

The fuel economy has been 25mpg so far. Hey, what's wrong with a
three cylinder engine after all?? I know a lot of people who aren't
using all cylinders.

Peace!
Jack

==================================================

Leave the plug connected. It isn't hurting anything and running with one
lead open (unless you ground it) is bad news for the coil.
http://tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#badcoil

Mike

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:a841d736-9b38-4c0d-a076-28645bb8aa23@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com:


>
> Sounds like both the kerosene and the lacquer thinner approach are the
> same sort of fix. Tegger, were you talking about leaving the kerosene
> sit in the engine, unmoved for a couple of weeks? I may not have the
> luxury of letting it sit that long.



Leave it sit as long as you can, then. Maybe do repeated shorter
applications.


>
> I have used lacquer thinner before in small engine repair. I works.
> Stabil does the same thing though. It cleans out stuff in the same
> fashion. Ive watched it completely dissolve carbon and varnish on a
> weedeater engine.



So try it.



>
> OKAY, here's the other big question. Until it is warmer and I can
> pull this off the road and effect repairs, what will it do to the
> engine to run it on 3 pistons? I'm not kidding when I say it is
> running fine.



You know what? You've got absolutely nothing to lose at this point. Except
eventual damage to the catalytic converter, which isn't important if you
don't have to have the car smogged.

Just drive it as-is.

If there's a stuck ring, you'll know because you'll burn oil like crazy.
And it's just possible that regular use will eventually break the ring
free. It the problem never goes away, then you've got a truly dead cylinder
and you can either continue to live with it or replace the engine.




--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

Ok, that's the bottom I was looking for. Now, let's look at this from
a different direction. My oldest son knows absolutely nothing about
mechanics. If nothing else, this is tuition. We could rebuild the
pistons and have the head machined or swapped out for a known good
one. I have the space and the friends to do so, but not until it is
warmer.

In the end, if I have a 1986 Honda Accord LXI with a great running
engine, don't I have something that is worth at least a little bit? I
can do the body work, the electrical work is easy. Wouldn't this then
be a classic of some kind?

If not, at least it will be a car paid for free and clear.

So, options at this point as I see them, and feel free to let me know
of any positive ones I have missed.

#1 Run it as is and shoot some lube to the cylinder from time to time
to try and free the ring.

#2 Wait until it is warm and drop the pan, remove the head and
hopefully find that all I need to do is rering the pistons and maybe
hone the cylinder.

#3 New engine. There's a guy selling these on ebay for $175. Anyone
know of a better deal for an engine guaranteed to be working? This
will have to wait till warmer weather.

#4 Call it a loss. (Against my nature, not likely at all.)

Again, if you guys have a brain storm and are not injured in the
process, please share..

Peace and where appropriate Merry Christmas or Happy Chanukah as the
case may be.
Jack

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote
> #3 New engine. There's a guy selling these on ebay for
> $175. Anyone
> know of a better deal for an engine guaranteed to be
> working? This
> will have to wait till warmer weather.

Have the link? Honda engines are indeed pretty widely
available. Never seen one this cheap, though. Find a
reputable seller and even if it costs closer to $600 for the
engine, and this is the way I would go. If one set of rings
stuck, seems to me the others, and other parts, may show
problems.

The internet will turn up many sellers of used Honda
engines. Honda-tech.com is a very good resource for swapping
engines, both where to buy and how to do it.

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in news:3037fafe-9f99-456b-bf7f-
39a1a139ff34@k9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com:

>
>
> Ok, that's the bottom I was looking for. Now, let's look at this from
> a different direction. My oldest son knows absolutely nothing about
> mechanics. If nothing else, this is tuition. We could rebuild the
> pistons and have the head machined or swapped out for a known good
> one. I have the space and the friends to do so, but not until it is
> warmer.



Don't try to rebuild an engine yourself. Waste of money, as it will fail
REALLY fast.

You can read Elle's message, and then check your local Yellow Pages for
a local wreckers, or a used Japanese engine vendor. The JDM F22B DOHC L4
is a popular swap, and may fit in this car.



>
> In the end, if I have a 1986 Honda Accord LXI with a great running
> engine, don't I have something that is worth at least a little bit? I
> can do the body work, the electrical work is easy. Wouldn't this then
> be a classic of some kind?




You'd think, but with a very few exceptions (Nissan 240-Z, Toyota MR-2),
I think Japanese cars will be disdained on this side of the Pacific for
the foreseeable future, which is really too bad.



>
> If not, at least it will be a car paid for free and clear.



That's the way to think of it.



>
> So, options at this point as I see them, and feel free to let me know
> of any positive ones I have missed.
>
> #1 Run it as is and shoot some lube to the cylinder from time to time
> to try and free the ring.



This is a very good idea. But I think you've just got a dead cylinder...



>
> #2 Wait until it is warm and drop the pan, remove the head and
> hopefully find that all I need to do is rering the pistons and maybe
> hone the cylinder.




BAD BAD BAD idea!!!! BAD. Very bad. Don't do this. You will waste your
time and money. An engine needs to come right out for a rebuild that
will last more than 200 miles. This is not a 1929 Ford.




>
> #3 New engine. There's a guy selling these on ebay for $175.



Blah. Forget that. Find a local source, where you can at least go there
and beat somebody up if something goes wrong.




> Anyone
> know of a better deal for an engine guaranteed to be working? This
> will have to wait till warmer weather.



Call your local wrecking yard. Or check here: www.car-part.com

Wreckers have perfectly good engines they end up only selling to
garages, because people like you don't know they exist.



>
> #4 Call it a loss. (Against my nature, not likely at all.)


If the body is sound, there's no reason not to have some fun with it.



>
> Again, if you guys have a brain storm and are not injured in the
> process, please share..
>
> Peace and where appropriate Merry Christmas or Happy Chanukah as the
> case may be.



Happy Farmer's Wash Day.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

> > Peace and where appropriate Merry Christmas or Happy Chanukah as the
> > case may be.


Complements of the season (after the lawyers have
finished)

Please accept with no obligation, implied or
implicit, our best wishes for an environmentally
conscious, socially responsible, low stress,
non-addictive, gender neutral, celebration of the
winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most
enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of
your choice, or secular practices of your choice,
with respect for the religious/secular persuasions,
and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to
practice, religious or secular traditions at all.

Wishing you a fiscally successful, personally
fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition
of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year
2009, but not without due respect for the calendars
of choice of other cultures whose contributions to
society, have helped make America great, (not to
imply that America is necessarily greater than any
other country or is the only "AMERICA", in the
western hemisphere), and without regard to the race,
creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith,
and choice of computer platform.

(By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these
terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or
withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no
alteration to the original greeting. It implies no
promise by the wisher to actually implement any of
the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void
where prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole
discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to
perform as expected within the usual application of
good tidings for a period of one year, or until the
issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever
comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement
of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole
discretion of the wisher.)

Erik

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

On Dec 16, 10:55 pm, Erik <e...@spam.this> wrote:
> > > Peace and where appropriate Merry Christmas or Happy Chanukah as the
> > > case may be.
>
> Complements of the season (after the lawyers have
> finished)
>
> Please accept with no obligation, implied or
> implicit, our best wishes for an environmentally
> conscious, socially responsible, low stress,
> non-addictive, gender neutral, celebration of the
> winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most
> enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of
> your choice, or secular practices of your choice,
> with respect for the religious/secular persuasions,
> and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to
> practice, religious or secular traditions at all.
>
> Wishing you a fiscally successful, personally
> fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition
> of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year
> 2009, but not without due respect for the calendars
> of choice of other cultures whose contributions to
> society, have helped make America great, (not to
> imply that America is necessarily greater than any
> other country or is the only "AMERICA", in the
> western hemisphere), and without regard to the race,
> creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith,
> and choice of computer platform.
>
> (By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these
> terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or
> withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no
> alteration to the original greeting. It implies no
> promise by the wisher to actually implement any of
> the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void
> where prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole
> discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to
> perform as expected within the usual application of
> good tidings for a period of one year, or until the
> issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever
> comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement
> of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole
> discretion of the wisher.)
>
> Erik

GD man that was awesome. I have to applaud your ability to include
everyone and everything. Merry everything without obligation to
anything to you as well. Peace!!!!

My son and I are now playing with the engine. After all we are just
morons knocking around. It's not as if I resurrected a dead 1997
Jaguar XJ6 and made it click on all cylinders.

I have tried various of the suggestions and intend next to remove the
head if this doesnt work. I will also drop the pan, do new rings and
and pistons and make the engine what I want it to be. I may be an
absolute moron for trying but I don't care. I will count it tuition
towards my son's learning how to work on a motor vehicle. I only have
300 in in the vehicle to begin with and a little play money to make it
into something. I think I probably won't screw a ring/piston job up
too bad.

Peace!
Jack

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

On Dec 16, 10:40 am, "Elle" <honda.lion...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> > #3 New engine. There's a guy selling these on ebay for
> > $175. Anyone
> > know of a better deal for an engine guaranteed to be
> > working? This
> > will have to wait till warmer weather.
>
> Have the link? Honda engines are indeed pretty widely
> available. Never seen one this cheap, though. Find a
> reputable seller and even if it costs closer to $600 for the
> engine, and this is the way I would go. If one set of rings
> stuck, seems to me the others, and other parts, may show
> problems.
>
> The internet will turn up many sellers of used Honda
> engines. Honda-tech.com is a very good resource for swapping
> engines, both where to buy and how to do it.

Here is the link for the engines on eBay. I believe they answered the
phone "Beaver". The have a computer operated voice mail and seem to
be quite professional. Though the young man that I spoke to said he
didn't have any idea about swaps for these "older" engines.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...TQ:MOTORS:1123

When I inquired they sent me an 800 number to call.

Peace!
Jack

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

On Dec 16, 4:55 pm, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:3037fafe-9f99-456b-bf7f-
> 39a1a139f...@k9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > Ok, that's the bottom I was looking for. Now, let's look at this from
> > a different direction. My oldest son knows absolutely nothing about
> > mechanics. If nothing else, this is tuition. We could rebuild the
> > pistons and have the head machined or swapped out for a known good
> > one. I have the space and the friends to do so, but not until it is
> > warmer.
>
> Don't try to rebuild an engine yourself. Waste of money, as it will fail
> REALLY fast.
>
> You can read Elle's message, and then check your local Yellow Pages for
> a local wreckers, or a used Japanese engine vendor. The JDM F22B DOHC L4
> is a popular swap, and may fit in this car.
>
>
>
> > In the end, if I have a 1986 Honda Accord LXI with a great running
> > engine, don't I have something that is worth at least a little bit? I
> > can do the body work, the electrical work is easy. Wouldn't this then
> > be a classic of some kind?
>
> You'd think, but with a very few exceptions (Nissan 240-Z, Toyota MR-2),
> I think Japanese cars will be disdained on this side of the Pacific for
> the foreseeable future, which is really too bad.
>
>
>
> > If not, at least it will be a car paid for free and clear.
>
> That's the way to think of it.
>
>
>
> > So, options at this point as I see them, and feel free to let me know
> > of any positive ones I have missed.
>
> > #1 Run it as is and shoot some lube to the cylinder from time to time
> > to try and free the ring.
>
> This is a very good idea. But I think you've just got a dead cylinder...
>
>
>
> > #2 Wait until it is warm and drop the pan, remove the head and
> > hopefully find that all I need to do is rering the pistons and maybe
> > hone the cylinder.
>
> BAD BAD BAD idea!!!! BAD. Very bad. Don't do this. You will waste your
> time and money. An engine needs to come right out for a rebuild that
> will last more than 200 miles. This is not a 1929 Ford.
>
>
>
> > #3 New engine. There's a guy selling these on ebay for $175.
>
> Blah. Forget that. Find a local source, where you can at least go there
> and beat somebody up if something goes wrong.
>
> > Anyone
> > know of a better deal for an engine guaranteed to be working? This
> > will have to wait till warmer weather.
>
> Call your local wrecking yard. Or check here:www.car-part.com
>
> Wreckers have perfectly good engines they end up only selling to
> garages, because people like you don't know they exist.
>
>
>
> > #4 Call it a loss. (Against my nature, not likely at all.)
>
> If the body is sound, there's no reason not to have some fun with it.
>
>
>
> > Again, if you guys have a brain storm and are not injured in the
> > process, please share..
>
> > Peace and where appropriate Merry Christmas or Happy Chanukah as the
> > case may be.
>
> Happy Farmer's Wash Day.
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Ok, at this point we have tried the laquer thinner approach as well as
the Stabil. It got to a point where nothing would run down over the
piston anymore. I watched it for about three hours as it sat there
and initially it just piled up on top of the cylinder head and sort of
leaked away over time until at some point it stopped and wouldn't leak
anymore. To this humble observer, I would wonder if that doesn't mean
that something came loose and made a tighter seal in the cylinder?

I did fire it up and let it run some last night and it seems to run a
little smoother, but I will have to go back over to the shop with the
compression tester to see if that is any better for real. I can tell
you that it blasted the remains of the solvents out of the spark plug
hole with a GREAT DEAL of force before I replaced the plug. Before it
didn't spit anything anywhere. The one curious thing was that there
seemed to be no smoke coming from the exhaust from any of the solvents
I used. That may be because they were consumed in combustion more
efficiently than oil would be. I have seen the results of putting oil
on top of the cylinder to build up compression and I know that
generates quite a lot of smoke.

I could tell that the top of the piston was badly covered with
carbon. Not clean at all.

To finish the night I drained off about a pint of oil and filled the
case back up with sea-foam and ran it until it reached operating
temperature for about 30min. After that I drained it off, filled it
with 5w30 and 20oz of Rislone ring sealant. I know, additives are
usually junk, but I thought what the heck. Rislone is supposed to be
a good brand. At that point I came in and went to bed. I'll go back
out in a few and see how far it has come.

Unfortunately in Western Kentucky there are not and Junk Yards or
Wreckers that handle these types of engines on any kind of regular
basis. I don't know that anything will be obtainable within a 200mi
radius. Nashville quite probably has something, but as I said, I
won't be taking care of it this winter.

Thanks again
Jack

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

On Dec 16, 4:55 pm, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:3037fafe-9f99-456b-bf7f-
> 39a1a139f...@k9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > Ok, that's the bottom I was looking for. Now, let's look at this from
> > a different direction. My oldest son knows absolutely nothing about
> > mechanics. If nothing else, this is tuition. We could rebuild the
> > pistons and have the head machined or swapped out for a known good
> > one. I have the space and the friends to do so, but not until it is
> > warmer.
>
> Don't try to rebuild an engine yourself. Waste of money, as it will fail
> REALLY fast.
>
> You can read Elle's message, and then check your local Yellow Pages for
> a local wreckers, or a used Japanese engine vendor. The JDM F22B DOHC L4
> is a popular swap, and may fit in this car.
>
>
>
> > In the end, if I have a 1986 Honda Accord LXI with a great running
> > engine, don't I have something that is worth at least a little bit? I
> > can do the body work, the electrical work is easy. Wouldn't this then
> > be a classic of some kind?
>
> You'd think, but with a very few exceptions (Nissan 240-Z, Toyota MR-2),
> I think Japanese cars will be disdained on this side of the Pacific for
> the foreseeable future, which is really too bad.
>
>
>
> > If not, at least it will be a car paid for free and clear.
>
> That's the way to think of it.
>
>
>
> > So, options at this point as I see them, and feel free to let me know
> > of any positive ones I have missed.
>
> > #1 Run it as is and shoot some lube to the cylinder from time to time
> > to try and free the ring.
>
> This is a very good idea. But I think you've just got a dead cylinder...
>
>
>
> > #2 Wait until it is warm and drop the pan, remove the head and
> > hopefully find that all I need to do is rering the pistons and maybe
> > hone the cylinder.
>
> BAD BAD BAD idea!!!! BAD. Very bad. Don't do this. You will waste your
> time and money. An engine needs to come right out for a rebuild that
> will last more than 200 miles. This is not a 1929 Ford.
>
>
>
> > #3 New engine. There's a guy selling these on ebay for $175.
>
> Blah. Forget that. Find a local source, where you can at least go there
> and beat somebody up if something goes wrong.
>
> > Anyone
> > know of a better deal for an engine guaranteed to be working? This
> > will have to wait till warmer weather.
>
> Call your local wrecking yard. Or check here:www.car-part.com
>
> Wreckers have perfectly good engines they end up only selling to
> garages, because people like you don't know they exist.
>
>
>
> > #4 Call it a loss. (Against my nature, not likely at all.)
>
> If the body is sound, there's no reason not to have some fun with it.
>
>
>
> > Again, if you guys have a brain storm and are not injured in the
> > process, please share..
>
> > Peace and where appropriate Merry Christmas or Happy Chanukah as the
> > case may be.
>
> Happy Farmer's Wash Day.
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Do they still practice Farmer's Wash Day, or Salt Water day as some
call it? There was a wonderful article in the August 9th, 1896
edition of the New York Times about the many types of people that
descended upon Manasqua for the holiday, August 8th.

May it be well, but not so good as to spoil what you have!
Jack

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote
Here is the link for the engines on eBay. I believe they
answered the
phone "Beaver". The have a computer operated voice mail and
seem to
be quite professional. Though the young man that I spoke to
said he
didn't have any idea about swaps for these "older" engines.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...TQ:MOTORS:1123
-------------


Interesting. Are you close enough to this ebay seller to
actually pick up the engine? Three things I would do

1. Ask if they have any documentation for the mileage on
their engines.
2. Ask at honda-tech.com (a) if anyone knows this seller;
and (b) other sellers people can recommend. Registration is
free. Honda-tech.com is overwhelmingly teens and
20-somethings that are serious hobbyists particularly in the
area of engine swaps.
3. Search the net for other Accord engine sellers. E.g. a
search I just did turned up
http://www.actionsalvage.com/Engine/...rd_Used_Engine

I echo Tegger's caveats about buying a used engine.

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e29cc1f1-19b6-46e0-8b56-91f7438aee5b@13g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 16, 4:55 pm, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:

Ok, at this point we have tried the laquer thinner approach as well as
the Stabil. It got to a point where nothing would run down over the
piston anymore. I watched it for about three hours as it sat there
and initially it just piled up on top of the cylinder head and sort of
leaked away over time until at some point it stopped and wouldn't leak
anymore. To this humble observer, I would wonder if that doesn't mean
that something came loose and made a tighter seal in the cylinder?

I did fire it up and let it run some last night and it seems to run a
little smoother, but I will have to go back over to the shop with the
compression tester to see if that is any better for real. I can tell
you that it blasted the remains of the solvents out of the spark plug
hole with a GREAT DEAL of force before I replaced the plug. Before it
didn't spit anything anywhere. The one curious thing was that there
seemed to be no smoke coming from the exhaust from any of the solvents
I used. That may be because they were consumed in combustion more
efficiently than oil would be. I have seen the results of putting oil
on top of the cylinder to build up compression and I know that
generates quite a lot of smoke.

I could tell that the top of the piston was badly covered with
carbon. Not clean at all.

To finish the night I drained off about a pint of oil and filled the
case back up with sea-foam and ran it until it reached operating
temperature for about 30min. After that I drained it off, filled it
with 5w30 and 20oz of Rislone ring sealant. I know, additives are
usually junk, but I thought what the heck. Rislone is supposed to be
a good brand. At that point I came in and went to bed. I'll go back
out in a few and see how far it has come.

Unfortunately in Western Kentucky there are not and Junk Yards or
Wreckers that handle these types of engines on any kind of regular
basis. I don't know that anything will be obtainable within a 200mi
radius. Nashville quite probably has something, but as I said, I
won't be taking care of it this winter.

Thanks again
Jack

================================================== ====

I admit - I'm geeking out over this whole thing. It is an area I've
sometimes wondered about (oil abuse probably leading to a dead cylinder) and
using a host of mud-wrestling things to bring it back. So far it sounds
promising, and I am really rooting for you.

I agree about the additives - they always seem like a shot in the dark, but
in this case you are trying to fix a specific problem. I imagine if this
works you will be changing out the Risloned oil after you feel it has done
all the voodoo it can.

There's no school like old school!

Mike

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

Michael,

I will be changing out the oil again soon if it does work. I am not
fond of most additives. I do like Lucas, but it is 100% petroleum, so
I feel like it is less dangerous. It has also helped me a lot with
older engines. I appreciate the encouragement. Ive got a few other
tricks up my sleeve yet. As I said, there was so much carbon atop
that first piston, I can't imagine this will go away quickly. I am
going to do some experiments with some other solvents on the carbon
from the piston (OUTSIDE THE ENGINE) and see if there is any residual
pitting in the metal or anything that would cause the solvent to be
more harm than good. I have a woodshop, so there are quite a few
things out there that I am familiar with. I wondered briefly about
turpentine and will investigate that further. It dissolves gum
mastic, shellac and some types of varnish. Plain old paint remover is
pretty effective too, but I am afraid of possible pitting effects.
Similarly one might think of Easy Off as an option because of the way
it removes carbon in an oven, but it can have a nasty effect on some
metals. Soooo, that might be the last resort before the new engine.

Have you rebuilt any engines Michael? Or reringed any pistons?

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:23c433a5-567e-4eee-a481-f4c5c0e7a028@m4g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>
> Have you rebuilt any engines Michael? Or reringed any pistons?
>

Only once,on a 1970 Volvo. The engine had suffered a lot of detonation so
the rebuild was actually slightly more expensive than a short block would
have been - I think it cost me about $50 more than the short block by the
time I was done, and I didn't even change the oil pump. :-( Every
cylinder had at least one broken compression ring (from the detonation, I'm
sure) and there was a channel torched in one cylinder where the ring was
broken. I had to have the block bored and had to buy new pistons and rings.
Fitting the rings was a minor experience but nothing special. Each ring had
to be test fitted, checked for width of the gap, and the end filed until the
gap was as specified. It was more tedious than adventurous.

I share TeGGer's concern about trying to rebuild a modern engine. The B18 I
was working on was straight bored; I understand more recent engines are
bored with a dummy head fitted so the distortion produced when the head is
torqued down is taken into account in the boring and even the honing. In any
case, older engines were pretty used up at 200K miles while newer ones make
300K or more if reasonably cared for. There are probably more reasons than I
know.

Mike

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

"Michael Pardee" <null@null.org> wrote in
news:tt6dncheB6COGdTUnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@sedona.net:


>
> I share TeGGer's concern about trying to rebuild a modern engine.



My concern was trying to hone the bores in-situ, which is what I gathered
the OP wanted to do.



> The
> B18 I was working on was straight bored; I understand more recent
> engines are bored with a dummy head fitted so the distortion produced
> when the head is torqued down is taken into account in the boring and
> even the honing.


Apparently that's not as necessary with Honda's open-deck blocks.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

On Dec 17, 4:58 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
> "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:23c433a5-567e-4eee-a481-f4c5c0e7a028@m4g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Have you rebuilt any engines Michael? Or reringed any pistons?
>
> Only once,on a 1970 Volvo. The engine had suffered a lot of detonation so
> the rebuild was actually slightly more expensive than a short block would
> have been - I think it cost me about $50 more than the short block by the
> time I was done, and I didn't even change the oil pump. :-( Every
> cylinder had at least one broken compression ring (from the detonation, I'm
> sure) and there was a channel torched in one cylinder where the ring was
> broken. I had to have the block bored and had to buy new pistons and rings.
> Fitting the rings was a minor experience but nothing special. Each ring had
> to be test fitted, checked for width of the gap, and the end filed until the
> gap was as specified. It was more tedious than adventurous.
>
> I share TeGGer's concern about trying to rebuild a modern engine. The B18I
> was working on was straight bored; I understand more recent engines are
> bored with a dummy head fitted so the distortion produced when the head is
> torqued down is taken into account in the boring and even the honing. In any
> case, older engines were pretty used up at 200K miles while newer ones make
> 300K or more if reasonably cared for. There are probably more reasons than I
> know.
>
> Mike

I actually read an article earlier about people using Easy Off on
aluminium heads to clean the carbon deposits. Maybe that wasn't so
crazy after all. Obviously it would mean an oil change and I would
probably have to rinse out the cylinder with gasoline because water
would cause it's own problems. Again, maybe that will be a last
resort.

I watched the valves come down today for a while as my son bumped the
ignition with the coil and injector disengaged. From what little I
could see through the hole it certainly didn't look like the intake
valves were even as they came down. One was above the other. Is that
the way it is supposed to be? Is there a way of adjusting that
without taking the head off? Pictures would be good here if you have
any.

Peace!
Jack

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

On Dec 17, 9:15 am, "Elle" <honda.lion...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Here is the link for the engines on eBay. I believe they
> answered the
> phone "Beaver". The have a computer operated voice mail and
> seem to
> be quite professional. Though the young man that I spoke to
> said he
> didn't have any idea about swaps for these "older" engines.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m&item=2000404....
> -------------
>
> Interesting. Are you close enough to this ebay seller to
> actually pick up the engine? Three things I would do
>
> 1. Ask if they have any documentation for the mileage on
> their engines.
> 2. Ask at honda-tech.com (a) if anyone knows this seller;
> and (b) other sellers people can recommend. Registration is
> free. Honda-tech.com is overwhelmingly teens and
> 20-somethings that are serious hobbyists particularly in the
> area of engine swaps.
> 3. Search the net for other Accord engine sellers. E.g. a
> search I just did turned uphttp://www.actionsalvage.com/Engine/used-engine-honda.asp#Honda_Accor...
>
> I echo Tegger's caveats about buying a used engine.

I am in far Western Kentucky and they are in South Carolina. I
wouldnt mind the drive this summer, but right now it is a little far
and a little cold. They guarantee them and do keep records of mileage
and VIN numbers. Sounded like a reputable place known for Honda
parts. Believe it or not, eBay has an honest soul or two.

Peace!
Jack

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote
I am in far Western Kentucky and they are in South Carolina.
I
wouldnt mind the drive this summer, but right now it is a
little far
and a little cold. They guarantee them and do keep records
of mileage
and VIN numbers. Sounded like a reputable place known for
Honda
parts. Believe it or not, eBay has an honest soul or two.
----

I am still curious about why their engines are so
inexpensive compared to all else I have seen so far on the
net. I buy from Ebay often and have had maybe one sour
transaction out of a few dozen to date.

I too am following your engine cleaning efforts, though.
Good luck.

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

On Dec 18, 7:12 am, "Elle" <honda.lion...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote
> I am in far Western Kentucky and they are in South Carolina.
> I
> wouldnt mind the drive this summer, but right now it is a
> little far
> and a little cold. They guarantee them and do keep records
> of mileage
> and VIN numbers. Sounded like a reputable place known for
> Honda
> parts. Believe it or not, eBay has an honest soul or two.
> ----
>
> I am still curious about why their engines are so
> inexpensive compared to all else I have seen so far on the
> net. I buy from Ebay often and have had maybe one sour
> transaction out of a few dozen to date.
>
> I too am following your engine cleaning efforts, though.
> Good luck.

Could be shear volume, the economy and the fact that they require you
to come and get it. I will inquire further at Honda-Tech. I joined
yesterday.

Thanks.
Jack

BTW what is OP??

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

On Dec 18, 1:38 am, jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Dec 17, 4:58 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:23c433a5-567e-4eee-a481-f4c5c0e7a028@m4g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Have you rebuilt any engines Michael? Or reringed any pistons?
>
> > Only once,on a 1970 Volvo. The engine had suffered a lot of detonation so
> > the rebuild was actually slightly more expensive than a short block would
> > have been - I think it cost me about $50 more than the short block by the
> > time I was done, and I didn't even change the oil pump. :-( Every
> > cylinder had at least one broken compression ring (from the detonation,I'm
> > sure) and there was a channel torched in one cylinder where the ring was
> > broken. I had to have the block bored and had to buy new pistons and rings.
> > Fitting the rings was a minor experience but nothing special. Each ringhad
> > to be test fitted, checked for width of the gap, and the end filed until the
> > gap was as specified. It was more tedious than adventurous.
>
> > I share TeGGer's concern about trying to rebuild a modern engine. The B18 I
> > was working on was straight bored; I understand more recent engines are
> > bored with a dummy head fitted so the distortion produced when the headis
> > torqued down is taken into account in the boring and even the honing. In any
> > case, older engines were pretty used up at 200K miles while newer ones make
> > 300K or more if reasonably cared for. There are probably more reasons than I
> > know.
>
> > Mike
>
> I actually read an article earlier about people using Easy Off on
> aluminium heads to clean the carbon deposits. Maybe that wasn't so
> crazy after all. Obviously it would mean an oil change and I would
> probably have to rinse out the cylinder with gasoline because water
> would cause it's own problems. Again, maybe that will be a last
> resort.
>
> I watched the valves come down today for a while as my son bumped the
> ignition with the coil and injector disengaged. From what little I
> could see through the hole it certainly didn't look like the intake
> valves were even as they came down. One was above the other. Is that
> the way it is supposed to be? Is there a way of adjusting that
> without taking the head off? Pictures would be good here if you have
> any.
>
> Peace!
> Jack

Okay, here's another crazy one. My dad tells me that in carburetor
engines they would use a little water when the butterfly was open and
the engine was warmed up to clean carbon out of the engine. It would
not go into the oil at all, it would simply clean the carbon out of
the combustion chamber. Worked like a charm he said.

The FI system is pretty much closed during combustion except through
the air intake. Has anyone ever heard of or tried that?? BTW my dad
is only 69, and still in charge of his faculties, so I know he's not
too old to know what he is talking about. AAMOF, I don't know many
people that are too old to know what they are talking about.

Peace!
Jack

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote
> BTW what is OP??

OP is "original poster," meaning the person (= poster) who
originated the thread.

Clarification: I meant that I too generally trust Ebay,
especially after checking the seller's reliability rating
and reports.

You certainly may be right about why the engines are so
cheap with this SC dealer. Maybe too these engines are not
in high demand?

I was curious to see whether the ebay seller you linked
before sold other engines. I did not see any Civic engines
for sale at all. I could be wrong, but it seems he has
exactly one Accord engine for your year. Then my concern
would be if it fails you get to haul it back for a refund,
according to the seller's statement on engine sales.

Still, it may be a good gamble. Has the seller said how many
miles are on this engine?

Good to hear you are trying honda-tech. It may shed more
light on options for used engines.

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote
> I was curious to see whether the ebay seller you linked
> before sold other engines. I did not see any Civic engines
> for sale at all.

Correction: I saw none for 88-2000 Civics. He does have a
couple of 2001-05 Civic engines right now.

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
 

On Dec 18, 10:01 am, "Elle" <honda.lion...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Elle" <honda.lion...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > I was curious to see whether the ebay seller you linked
> > before sold other engines. I did not see any Civic engines
> > for sale at all.
>
> Correction: I saw none for 88-2000 Civics. He does have a
> couple of 2001-05 Civic engines right now.

Thanks for defining OP. I wondered what it meant.

When I talked to the South Carolina Honda Place on the phone it
sounded like he could sell them all day and I could get whatever I
wanted. The one I called him about had 98,000 on it. There was also
one on the site you sent me to that had 100,000 for 455 dollars. It
may seem like quite a range, but they are both in what I would call
the "cheap" category for an engine. However, I saw a 1997 AJ16 for a
Jaguar XJ6 on ebay for $189 from a seller with 50,000 feedback. That
engine usually runs for 4000 from a Jag wrecker. The reason for the
low price was that nobody is in the market for a jag anything these
days. For those of us who do our own work on them, it is a boon. For
those with parts to sell, they just want to move them. Does that make
as much sense to you as it does to me???

Peace!
Jack