BT

I have a 1999 Honda Civic CX (the US hatchback version, manual
transmission, possibly the last year it was made) with 230,000 miles.
It has been driven almost exclusively in California, and mostly
highway miles (80%). Pretty much everything is still original on this
car except for the brake pads, headlight bulbs, spark plugs, tires,
timing belt and the heater blower motor (the only non-wear part to
have gone bad). The car still runs as smooth as a sewing machine,
except that there is some clatter in the winter(!) until the engine
warms up (piston slap?). Using Castrol Syntec (0W-30) seems to help
with this, but for the last 140k miles, I've used mostly Mobil1 5W-30,
changed every 10k miles. It generally needs about a quart every 5k
miles, but there are no leaks that I can see.

There are two issues I would like some input on. One, my mileage has
gone down quite a bit over the last three or so years. Part of it
could be that my city/highway ratio has increased a bit (30:70 split
from about 10:90 earlier), and part of it could be that the highway
speeds I drive at have increased (from ~65-70 to 70-75). Both of
these are because of a move from NorCal to SoCal. But the drop in
mileage has been pretty drastic. I used to always get >38 mpg earlier
(even with some higher-speed driving), and now I get about 33-36 mpg
in the summer, and ~30-31 in the winter. I keep the tires inflated
pretty regularly, so I don't think that's it. And the winter decrease
is likely due to fuel formulation. But can anyone speculate on whether
the other factors I mentioned could lead to ~15% reduction in fuel
efficiency? If yes, I guess I just have to live with it. If not, are
there any fixes I could work on? The one thing that I've not been able
to do is to change the PCV valve on this car. It's so easy on my
wife's 1995 civic, but almost impossible to get to on my 1999 model.
And every time I've gone to the dealer to get stuff done, I've
forgotten to mention it to them.

The second question is about the shocks/struts. Based on the amount of
road I'm feeling, I have a feeling I would be better off with new ones
all around. I don't see any leaks/abnormalities when I'm under the
car, but they just don't feel right when I go over bumps/potholes. I
am incapable of doing this work myself, and have very little knowledge
of what would be a good investment. What I'm basically looking for is
input on whether I should get some really good quality shocks that
will last me a while, or given the age of the car, just do the basics.
The body is in excellent shape, so if the motor dies, I wouldn't be
averse to putting in a new motor (maybe something a little more
powerful . If that happens, I would like to be ready with decent
shocks already installed on the car, rather than having to change them
again at that time. So I guess what I'm looking for is a
recommendation on what would be good shocks/struts/both. Does it
matter if I'm only going to get ~350,000 miles out of this car? Should
I worry about getting really good quality so I'll be ready for a new
motor or is that just too far down the line? What would be the price
difference between getting OEM and something that would be top-of-the-
line?

Thanks all for your input. I've cross-posted to both alt.autos.honda
and rec.autos.makers.honda. Please follow-up as you prefer. I'll be
following both groups.

Thanks,

BT

Elle

For gas mileage tips specific to Hondas, see
http://honda.lioness.googlepages.com/gasmileagetips

I think this is a D16Y7 (see what is stamped on the engine
just inboard and below the dizzy). If so, fueleconomy.gov
says their testing yields 27/34 (and 30 combined) and
individuals' report and 29/36 (and 33 combined).

If the ride is very uncomfortable, then for keeping it
another 100k+ miles I would do the basics with OEM only. I
would expect OEM to last pretty long (maybe longer than most
or all aftermarket). Using OEM also ensures the alignment
and things like tire wear are optimal. You can consider
working with an import shop where you provide the OEM parts
using online companies like www.slhondaparts.com . But also
get an estimate from your Honda dealers, since they may get
a discount on OEM parts. Changing shocks and coils is not a
difficult job, so I would trust the import shops.

Make sure you actually need new shocks and/or coils.
Something else may be causing the potholes etc. problem.

Leftie

BT wrote:
> I have a 1999 Honda Civic CX (the US hatchback version, manual
> transmission, possibly the last year it was made) with 230,000 miles.
> It has been driven almost exclusively in California, and mostly
> highway miles (80%). Pretty much everything is still original on this
> car except for the brake pads, headlight bulbs, spark plugs, tires,
> timing belt and the heater blower motor (the only non-wear part to
> have gone bad). The car still runs as smooth as a sewing machine,
> except that there is some clatter in the winter(!) until the engine
> warms up (piston slap?). Using Castrol Syntec (0W-30) seems to help
> with this, but for the last 140k miles, I've used mostly Mobil1 5W-30,
> changed every 10k miles. It generally needs about a quart every 5k
> miles, but there are no leaks that I can see.
>
> There are two issues I would like some input on. One, my mileage has
> gone down quite a bit over the last three or so years. Part of it
> could be that my city/highway ratio has increased a bit (30:70 split
> from about 10:90 earlier), and part of it could be that the highway
> speeds I drive at have increased (from ~65-70 to 70-75). Both of
> these are because of a move from NorCal to SoCal. But the drop in
> mileage has been pretty drastic. I used to always get >38 mpg earlier
> (even with some higher-speed driving), and now I get about 33-36 mpg
> in the summer, and ~30-31 in the winter. I keep the tires inflated
> pretty regularly, so I don't think that's it. And the winter decrease
> is likely due to fuel formulation. But can anyone speculate on whether
> the other factors I mentioned could lead to ~15% reduction in fuel
> efficiency? If yes, I guess I just have to live with it. If not, are
> there any fixes I could work on? The one thing that I've not been able
> to do is to change the PCV valve on this car. It's so easy on my
> wife's 1995 civic, but almost impossible to get to on my 1999 model.
> And every time I've gone to the dealer to get stuff done, I've
> forgotten to mention it to them.
>
> The second question is about the shocks/struts. Based on the amount of
> road I'm feeling, I have a feeling I would be better off with new ones
> all around. I don't see any leaks/abnormalities when I'm under the
> car, but they just don't feel right when I go over bumps/potholes. I
> am incapable of doing this work myself, and have very little knowledge
> of what would be a good investment. What I'm basically looking for is
> input on whether I should get some really good quality shocks that
> will last me a while, or given the age of the car, just do the basics.
> The body is in excellent shape, so if the motor dies, I wouldn't be
> averse to putting in a new motor (maybe something a little more
> powerful . If that happens, I would like to be ready with decent
> shocks already installed on the car, rather than having to change them
> again at that time. So I guess what I'm looking for is a
> recommendation on what would be good shocks/struts/both. Does it
> matter if I'm only going to get ~350,000 miles out of this car? Should
> I worry about getting really good quality so I'll be ready for a new
> motor or is that just too far down the line? What would be the price
> difference between getting OEM and something that would be top-of-the-
> line?
>
> Thanks all for your input. I've cross-posted to both alt.autos.honda
> and rec.autos.makers.honda. Please follow-up as you prefer. I'll be
> following both groups.
>
> Thanks,
>
> BT


I'll comment on the economy drop. The two changes in driving you
mention could indeed account for a 15% drop in fuel economy. You can try
to compensate in two ways: higher tire pressure (10% below the max
pressure listed on the tire sidewalls, assuming the tires aren't old and
worn, and accelerating more slowly to make up for the higher cruising
speeds. If that doesn't work, it's time for some basic engine
diagnostics. If you post your last two or three smog test results here,
one of techs may be able to tell you if your fuel system is getting lax...

jim beam

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 01:16:11 -0800, BT wrote:

> I have a 1999 Honda Civic CX (the US hatchback version, manual
> transmission, possibly the last year it was made) with 230,000 miles. It
> has been driven almost exclusively in California, and mostly highway
> miles (80%). Pretty much everything is still original on this car except
> for the brake pads, headlight bulbs, spark plugs, tires, timing belt and
> the heater blower motor (the only non-wear part to have gone bad). The
> car still runs as smooth as a sewing machine, except that there is some
> clatter in the winter(!) until the engine warms up (piston slap?). Using
> Castrol Syntec (0W-30) seems to help with this, but for the last 140k
> miles, I've used mostly Mobil1 5W-30, changed every 10k miles. It
> generally needs about a quart every 5k miles, but there are no leaks
> that I can see.
>
> There are two issues I would like some input on. One, my mileage has
> gone down quite a bit over the last three or so years. Part of it could
> be that my city/highway ratio has increased a bit (30:70 split from
> about 10:90 earlier), and part of it could be that the highway speeds I
> drive at have increased (from ~65-70 to 70-75). Both of these are
> because of a move from NorCal to SoCal. But the drop in mileage has been
> pretty drastic. I used to always get >38 mpg earlier (even with some
> higher-speed driving), and now I get about 33-36 mpg in the summer, and
> ~30-31 in the winter. I keep the tires inflated pretty regularly, so I
> don't think that's it. And the winter decrease is likely due to fuel
> formulation. But can anyone speculate on whether the other factors I
> mentioned could lead to ~15% reduction in fuel efficiency? If yes, I
> guess I just have to live with it. If not, are there any fixes I could
> work on? The one thing that I've not been able to do is to change the
> PCV valve on this car. It's so easy on my wife's 1995 civic, but almost
> impossible to get to on my 1999 model. And every time I've gone to the
> dealer to get stuff done, I've forgotten to mention it to them.
>
> The second question is about the shocks/struts. Based on the amount of
> road I'm feeling, I have a feeling I would be better off with new ones
> all around. I don't see any leaks/abnormalities when I'm under the car,
> but they just don't feel right when I go over bumps/potholes. I am
> incapable of doing this work myself, and have very little knowledge of
> what would be a good investment. What I'm basically looking for is input
> on whether I should get some really good quality shocks that will last
> me a while, or given the age of the car, just do the basics. The body is
> in excellent shape, so if the motor dies, I wouldn't be averse to
> putting in a new motor (maybe something a little more powerful . If
> that happens, I would like to be ready with decent shocks already
> installed on the car, rather than having to change them again at that
> time. So I guess what I'm looking for is a recommendation on what would
> be good shocks/struts/both. Does it matter if I'm only going to get
> ~350,000 miles out of this car? Should I worry about getting really good
> quality so I'll be ready for a new motor or is that just too far down
> the line? What would be the price difference between getting OEM and
> something that would be top-of-the- line?
>
> Thanks all for your input. I've cross-posted to both alt.autos.honda and
> rec.autos.makers.honda. Please follow-up as you prefer. I'll be
> following both groups.
>
> Thanks,
>
> BT


dude, that post was /way/ too long.

mileage - check all your ignition components, air filter, etc., use a
quality engine oil [synthetics can offer better economy], decent gasoline,
valve lash, ignition timing, check your brakes aren't binding, etc. it's
a maintenance issue.

regarding ride, that model civic, for whatever reason is a real brain
beater. i had one [2000 was the last model year] and sold it for that
reason. i tried three different brands of shocks, different bushings,
different tires, and nothing could "cure" it. that's not to say none of
these things had any effect - cushy shocks like kyb agx are a fine shock
and offer a comfy ride on other vehicles, but so do oem, and they're not
enough on this vehicle. another thing that kinda helps is tires. at the
two ends of the scale, michelins were harsh, dunlops comfy, relatively.
also, steel wheels are slightly more springy than alloys.

bottom line though, if you want comfort, go with an older gen civic, or
better yet accord. i spent a lot of time, and a shed-load of money trying
to get the 2000 civic to ride like my 89, and failed utterly. and on top
of that, it's heavy, slow, and has no sway bars, so is scary-unstable if
you need to do emergency avoidance maneuvers. i say cut your losses and
get rid of it.