Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <f1e9e025.0412031250.6b418902@posting.google.com >,
kip.dunagan@gmail.com (Jumper) wrote:

> Here's my take socket head: When you stop charging me 4.0 hours of
> labor charges for work that takes you 1.5 hours because it's "in the
> book," I'll stop complaining.

It's all about the value of the work to the customer. It has nothing to
do with how long the job took to do.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <Dl7sd.60334$Oc.13628@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
Dave Kelsen <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> >> Suck my dick, you supercilious sanctimonious bastard.
> >
> > THERE'S an intelligent response.
>
>
> Do you think that by clipping the intelligent response, you'll make
> people think that there wasn't one?

Um, no, not at all.


> There's history in usenet, Elmo.

Yes, there is--and I am well aware of it. Aware enough to know to trim
quotes and quote only what I'm responding to.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <Dl7sd.60334$Oc.13628@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
Dave Kelsen <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> >> Suck my dick, you supercilious sanctimonious bastard.
> >
> > THERE'S an intelligent response.
>
>
> Do you think that by clipping the intelligent response, you'll make
> people think that there wasn't one?

Um, no, not at all.


> There's history in usenet, Elmo.

Yes, there is--and I am well aware of it. Aware enough to know to trim
quotes and quote only what I'm responding to.

Howard

"since the engine was out, i wanted new CV joints, motor mounts, etc.
of course, he just charged me for the parts... labor was included in the
rebuild/reassembly. couple hundred more, but cheaper than doing it at a
later time."

"most dealers ARE out to "get you". they dont care about dealership
loyalty, repeat business, etc."

"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ck8sd.708993$8_6.581597@attbi_s04...

Why do you think he did you a favor? Weren't your axles already removed
when he pulled your motor? If that's the case, what would be the difference
in labor to put back old or new axles?

Do you think the dealer or any business would be able to stay in business
very long if they were out to "get you "?
Think about it. What are the some of the oldest businesses in your town. How
long have some the well known dealers or successful repair shops been there?
To exist in any business you must take care of your customer.

Howard

Howard

"since the engine was out, i wanted new CV joints, motor mounts, etc.
of course, he just charged me for the parts... labor was included in the
rebuild/reassembly. couple hundred more, but cheaper than doing it at a
later time."

"most dealers ARE out to "get you". they dont care about dealership
loyalty, repeat business, etc."

"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ck8sd.708993$8_6.581597@attbi_s04...

Why do you think he did you a favor? Weren't your axles already removed
when he pulled your motor? If that's the case, what would be the difference
in labor to put back old or new axles?

Do you think the dealer or any business would be able to stay in business
very long if they were out to "get you "?
Think about it. What are the some of the oldest businesses in your town. How
long have some the well known dealers or successful repair shops been there?
To exist in any business you must take care of your customer.

Howard

SoCalMike

Howard wrote:

> "You work for a Honda service department somewhere don't you?
> Here's my take socket head:"
>
> Being around cars all my life, I'll take that as a compliment. But no, I
> don't work for a Honda service department. Contrary to most small brained
> car owners who think the dealer is only out there to rip him off, I have
> great respect for any technician who has the expertise to do the a repair
> correectly. Whether he works in a dealer or an independent shop. And if you
> actually looked before you leaped you'd have seen my previous posts DO
> suggest any brand specialist or shop that advertises as a particular brand
> specialist and is recommended by his customers for expertise on the
> particular brand. I respect the technician who has amassed thousands, or
> tens of thousands or perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars in support of
> their business. Whether they are are indepent Honda, Toyota or Chevy repair
> shops or a franchised dealer. They deserve a return on their investment up
> to a limit.

as do the independants... the really good ones having worked for a
dealer for a while. lots of schooling and training involved.

> "When you stop trying to up sell me on maintenance I "need" for my car,
> I'll stop asking for free anything."

> If your vehicle is due for a particular maintenance that you didn't ask for,
> it's their duty to inform you. If they failed to tell you, would you be the
> first to complain that the dealer or technician/mechanic/ greasemonkey
> failed to tell you if you suffered a failure because it wasn't noticed.

depends on what it is. oil changes are crucial. lubing the hinges isnt.
what gets me is all the added bullshit, which is why i stay away from
dealers. i dont want to pay $300 for a spark plug and air filter change,
that also includes "visual inspections" and oiling the door hinges...

but hey- a lot of em sit on prime real estate and have VERY nice
buildings. takes money to pay for all that.


> They are in a business. It's their job to sell., providing of course it IS
> needed. If it's not needed, shame on you for buying.

they sell whats easy.

SoCalMike

Howard wrote:

> "You work for a Honda service department somewhere don't you?
> Here's my take socket head:"
>
> Being around cars all my life, I'll take that as a compliment. But no, I
> don't work for a Honda service department. Contrary to most small brained
> car owners who think the dealer is only out there to rip him off, I have
> great respect for any technician who has the expertise to do the a repair
> correectly. Whether he works in a dealer or an independent shop. And if you
> actually looked before you leaped you'd have seen my previous posts DO
> suggest any brand specialist or shop that advertises as a particular brand
> specialist and is recommended by his customers for expertise on the
> particular brand. I respect the technician who has amassed thousands, or
> tens of thousands or perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars in support of
> their business. Whether they are are indepent Honda, Toyota or Chevy repair
> shops or a franchised dealer. They deserve a return on their investment up
> to a limit.

as do the independants... the really good ones having worked for a
dealer for a while. lots of schooling and training involved.

> "When you stop trying to up sell me on maintenance I "need" for my car,
> I'll stop asking for free anything."

> If your vehicle is due for a particular maintenance that you didn't ask for,
> it's their duty to inform you. If they failed to tell you, would you be the
> first to complain that the dealer or technician/mechanic/ greasemonkey
> failed to tell you if you suffered a failure because it wasn't noticed.

depends on what it is. oil changes are crucial. lubing the hinges isnt.
what gets me is all the added bullshit, which is why i stay away from
dealers. i dont want to pay $300 for a spark plug and air filter change,
that also includes "visual inspections" and oiling the door hinges...

but hey- a lot of em sit on prime real estate and have VERY nice
buildings. takes money to pay for all that.


> They are in a business. It's their job to sell., providing of course it IS
> needed. If it's not needed, shame on you for buying.

they sell whats easy.

SoCalMike

Howard wrote:

> "since the engine was out, i wanted new CV joints, motor mounts, etc.
> of course, he just charged me for the parts... labor was included in the
> rebuild/reassembly. couple hundred more, but cheaper than doing it at a
> later time."
>
> "most dealers ARE out to "get you". they dont care about dealership
> loyalty, repeat business, etc."
>
> "SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ck8sd.708993$8_6.581597@attbi_s04...
>
> Why do you think he did you a favor? Weren't your axles already removed
> when he pulled your motor? If that's the case, what would be the difference
> in labor to put back old or new axles?

none at all... and he didnt even bring up the idea of replacing that
stuff... *I* did.
>
> Do you think the dealer or any business would be able to stay in business
> very long if they were out to "get you "?

sure! throw enough commercials on the air, have a dealership at an "auto
mall", and you can do what you want, pretty much.

toyota of cerritos was forced to shut down for a weekend as punishment
for fraud. dunno if that was an FTC case, or what... but theyre still
around, doing booming business, and still shafting people.

> Think about it. What are the some of the oldest businesses in your town. How
> long have some the well known dealers or successful repair shops been there?
> To exist in any business you must take care of your customer.

once you got their money, em.

SoCalMike

Howard wrote:

> "since the engine was out, i wanted new CV joints, motor mounts, etc.
> of course, he just charged me for the parts... labor was included in the
> rebuild/reassembly. couple hundred more, but cheaper than doing it at a
> later time."
>
> "most dealers ARE out to "get you". they dont care about dealership
> loyalty, repeat business, etc."
>
> "SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ck8sd.708993$8_6.581597@attbi_s04...
>
> Why do you think he did you a favor? Weren't your axles already removed
> when he pulled your motor? If that's the case, what would be the difference
> in labor to put back old or new axles?

none at all... and he didnt even bring up the idea of replacing that
stuff... *I* did.
>
> Do you think the dealer or any business would be able to stay in business
> very long if they were out to "get you "?

sure! throw enough commercials on the air, have a dealership at an "auto
mall", and you can do what you want, pretty much.

toyota of cerritos was forced to shut down for a weekend as punishment
for fraud. dunno if that was an FTC case, or what... but theyre still
around, doing booming business, and still shafting people.

> Think about it. What are the some of the oldest businesses in your town. How
> long have some the well known dealers or successful repair shops been there?
> To exist in any business you must take care of your customer.

once you got their money, em.

Dave Kelsen

On 12/3/2004 7:23 PM SoCalMike spake these words of knowledge:


> Jumper wrote:
>>
>> Until then...I'll go to my ASE Master Tech and a guy I trust over you
>> any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
>
> LOL... touche!
>
> i had a VW rabbit, and a trusted watercooled VW only mechanic. he did my
> engine rebuild, and i had to upsell *him* on doing things, like new CV
> joints, etc.
>
> since the engine was out, i wanted new CV joints, motor mounts, etc.
>
> of course, he just charged me for the parts... labor was included in the
> rebuild/reassembly. couple hundred more, but cheaper than doing it at a
> later time.
>
> most dealers ARE out to "get you". they dont care about dealership
> loyalty, repeat business, etc.

I disagree with this; I think most dealers are out to make a profit,
sure. If they don't, they aren't in business long. And of course we
*all* know stories about dealers who are simply ripping customers off.
But I don't think this is 'most' dealers.

Not having been to most dealerships, this is just my unsupported opinion.


> i wonder how the service dept at the online dealers like majestic are.
> the parts depts are willing to cut a deal, and just judging from the
> people here (me included), they get lots of repeat business.

I wonder why you bother to use periods and commas, but not other aspects
of written communication. How do you decide which ones to use and which
to leave out?


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
.... "Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret
for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." - Sydney J. Harris

Dave Kelsen

On 12/3/2004 7:23 PM SoCalMike spake these words of knowledge:


> Jumper wrote:
>>
>> Until then...I'll go to my ASE Master Tech and a guy I trust over you
>> any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
>
> LOL... touche!
>
> i had a VW rabbit, and a trusted watercooled VW only mechanic. he did my
> engine rebuild, and i had to upsell *him* on doing things, like new CV
> joints, etc.
>
> since the engine was out, i wanted new CV joints, motor mounts, etc.
>
> of course, he just charged me for the parts... labor was included in the
> rebuild/reassembly. couple hundred more, but cheaper than doing it at a
> later time.
>
> most dealers ARE out to "get you". they dont care about dealership
> loyalty, repeat business, etc.

I disagree with this; I think most dealers are out to make a profit,
sure. If they don't, they aren't in business long. And of course we
*all* know stories about dealers who are simply ripping customers off.
But I don't think this is 'most' dealers.

Not having been to most dealerships, this is just my unsupported opinion.


> i wonder how the service dept at the online dealers like majestic are.
> the parts depts are willing to cut a deal, and just judging from the
> people here (me included), they get lots of repeat business.

I wonder why you bother to use periods and commas, but not other aspects
of written communication. How do you decide which ones to use and which
to leave out?


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
.... "Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret
for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." - Sydney J. Harris

Caroline

"Dave Kelsen" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote
> On 12/3/2004 7:23 PM SoCalMike spake these words of knowledge:
snip
> > most dealers ARE out to "get you". they dont care about dealership
> > loyalty, repeat business, etc.

I agree.

OTOH, because so many customers are too lazy to learn anything about engines and
motors, they're a captive audience. So why not force them to pay for the
expertise they're getting?

Like medical doctors.

Seriously.

> I disagree with this; I think most dealers are out to make a profit,
> sure. If they don't, they aren't in business long. And of course we
> *all* know stories about dealers who are simply ripping customers off.
> But I don't think this is 'most' dealers.
>
> Not having been to most dealerships, this is just my unsupported opinion.

Having worked for the service department of one dealership and done some
business with several others, I think their main goal is to profit from the
ignorance of their customers.

Just like medical doctors.

I will say that the culture in parts departments is a little different. Those
guys will offer little tips (it's part of this charm thing they have going),
many of which have value, about repairs. In addition, they'll try to be
competitive with their prices. Many a time people here report taking Majestic's
prices (printed out) to a parts person and the guy will match the price.

> > i wonder how the service dept at the online dealers like majestic are.
> > the parts depts are willing to cut a deal, and just judging from the
> > people here (me included), they get lots of repeat business.
>
> I wonder why you bother to use periods and commas, but not other aspects
> of written communication. How do you decide which ones to use and which
> to leave out?

:-)

I was hoping we might get some clarification re Majestic. Do Majestic's people
bargain a little if pushed?

Call me a chum, but their prices are usually way better than dealers' and often
competitive with other online companies. I don't want them to go out of business
like www.hparts.com (though the hparts site now says it's "under construction").
Hparts.com was recommended here at the newsgroup by many for years. I used them
at least once.

At least, I don't want Majestic to go out of business until more sites have the
great parts drawings.

Caroline

"Dave Kelsen" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote
> On 12/3/2004 7:23 PM SoCalMike spake these words of knowledge:
snip
> > most dealers ARE out to "get you". they dont care about dealership
> > loyalty, repeat business, etc.

I agree.

OTOH, because so many customers are too lazy to learn anything about engines and
motors, they're a captive audience. So why not force them to pay for the
expertise they're getting?

Like medical doctors.

Seriously.

> I disagree with this; I think most dealers are out to make a profit,
> sure. If they don't, they aren't in business long. And of course we
> *all* know stories about dealers who are simply ripping customers off.
> But I don't think this is 'most' dealers.
>
> Not having been to most dealerships, this is just my unsupported opinion.

Having worked for the service department of one dealership and done some
business with several others, I think their main goal is to profit from the
ignorance of their customers.

Just like medical doctors.

I will say that the culture in parts departments is a little different. Those
guys will offer little tips (it's part of this charm thing they have going),
many of which have value, about repairs. In addition, they'll try to be
competitive with their prices. Many a time people here report taking Majestic's
prices (printed out) to a parts person and the guy will match the price.

> > i wonder how the service dept at the online dealers like majestic are.
> > the parts depts are willing to cut a deal, and just judging from the
> > people here (me included), they get lots of repeat business.
>
> I wonder why you bother to use periods and commas, but not other aspects
> of written communication. How do you decide which ones to use and which
> to leave out?

:-)

I was hoping we might get some clarification re Majestic. Do Majestic's people
bargain a little if pushed?

Call me a chum, but their prices are usually way better than dealers' and often
competitive with other online companies. I don't want them to go out of business
like www.hparts.com (though the hparts site now says it's "under construction").
Hparts.com was recommended here at the newsgroup by many for years. I used them
at least once.

At least, I don't want Majestic to go out of business until more sites have the
great parts drawings.

SoCalMike

Caroline wrote:
>
> I was hoping we might get some clarification re Majestic. Do Majestic's people
> bargain a little if pushed?

not that i know of. but i order from them knowing that im getting a
better price than my dealer. more dealers should be like them!

SoCalMike

Caroline wrote:
>
> I was hoping we might get some clarification re Majestic. Do Majestic's people
> bargain a little if pushed?

not that i know of. but i order from them knowing that im getting a
better price than my dealer. more dealers should be like them!