Bill B. Johnson

In article <9qbkb.2170$W16.332@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, "News
Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:

> After searching several forums and this NG for a similar issue, I was
> wondering if anyone has experienced a hydraulic leaking issue with a 5-speed
> Accord EX? I picked this car up in March this year, drove it 7,500 miles,
> had already performed the initial oil change, and was plenty happy when the
> clutch went totally soft this week while driving to work. Turns out the
> hydraulic pump for the clutch leaked (the dealer said it was a
> manufacturer's defect) and needed to be replaced. With a broken-in 2003
> Honda, I was blown away something like this could go wrong so early in the
> car's lifetime.
>
> Anyway, they fixed it and I was happy, although somewhat displeased with my
> first Honda ever (after several bad GM experiences, I decided on Honda after
> considering a Toyota Solara and Nissan Altima).
>
> As luck would have it, ten minutes after I left the dealer, the clutch went
> soft again and I could not get the 5-speed into any gear at all. Stranded -
> again. The 2003 Accord is being loaded now onto a flatbed so they can fix
> again, and I will surely need a rental car for a few days.
>
> Sorry for the diatribe, but I must be the sole statistical anomaly here (or
> am I) - has anyone else seen a hydraulic clutch go bad (leaking to the point
> of ensuring you cannot get into gear) on a 2003 Accord EX coupe with a
> 5-speed? This is the standard 2.4L engine obviously.

Your vehicle is still under warranty--let the dealer do the work. If you
do it yourself or hire a private mechanic to do it--Honda will use this as
an escuse to not do work on the specific problem.

News Scout

Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles). The
towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money spent at
all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as this car
is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design defect
(and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission. The
non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is not
something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one thing.
Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.

I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California and this
may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic outsells
the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed 2.4L
2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem than just
the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential problem on
their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the hell
knows.

We'll see.................


"Bill B. Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:billbjohnson555-1910031828500001@pm5-broad-127.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <9qbkb.2170$W16.332@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, "News
> Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > After searching several forums and this NG for a similar issue, I was
> > wondering if anyone has experienced a hydraulic leaking issue with a
5-speed
> > Accord EX? I picked this car up in March this year, drove it 7,500
miles,
> > had already performed the initial oil change, and was plenty happy when
the
> > clutch went totally soft this week while driving to work. Turns out the
> > hydraulic pump for the clutch leaked (the dealer said it was a
> > manufacturer's defect) and needed to be replaced. With a broken-in 2003
> > Honda, I was blown away something like this could go wrong so early in
the
> > car's lifetime.
> >
> > Anyway, they fixed it and I was happy, although somewhat displeased with
my
> > first Honda ever (after several bad GM experiences, I decided on Honda
after
> > considering a Toyota Solara and Nissan Altima).
> >
> > As luck would have it, ten minutes after I left the dealer, the clutch
went
> > soft again and I could not get the 5-speed into any gear at all.
Stranded -
> > again. The 2003 Accord is being loaded now onto a flatbed so they can
fix
> > again, and I will surely need a rental car for a few days.
> >
> > Sorry for the diatribe, but I must be the sole statistical anomaly here
(or
> > am I) - has anyone else seen a hydraulic clutch go bad (leaking to the
point
> > of ensuring you cannot get into gear) on a 2003 Accord EX coupe with a
> > 5-speed? This is the standard 2.4L engine obviously.
>
> Your vehicle is still under warranty--let the dealer do the work. If you
> do it yourself or hire a private mechanic to do it--Honda will use this as
> an escuse to not do work on the specific problem.

News Scout

Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles). The
towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money spent at
all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as this car
is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design defect
(and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission. The
non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is not
something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one thing.
Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.

I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California and this
may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic outsells
the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed 2.4L
2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem than just
the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential problem on
their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the hell
knows.

We'll see.................


"Bill B. Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:billbjohnson555-1910031828500001@pm5-broad-127.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <9qbkb.2170$W16.332@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, "News
> Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > After searching several forums and this NG for a similar issue, I was
> > wondering if anyone has experienced a hydraulic leaking issue with a
5-speed
> > Accord EX? I picked this car up in March this year, drove it 7,500
miles,
> > had already performed the initial oil change, and was plenty happy when
the
> > clutch went totally soft this week while driving to work. Turns out the
> > hydraulic pump for the clutch leaked (the dealer said it was a
> > manufacturer's defect) and needed to be replaced. With a broken-in 2003
> > Honda, I was blown away something like this could go wrong so early in
the
> > car's lifetime.
> >
> > Anyway, they fixed it and I was happy, although somewhat displeased with
my
> > first Honda ever (after several bad GM experiences, I decided on Honda
after
> > considering a Toyota Solara and Nissan Altima).
> >
> > As luck would have it, ten minutes after I left the dealer, the clutch
went
> > soft again and I could not get the 5-speed into any gear at all.
Stranded -
> > again. The 2003 Accord is being loaded now onto a flatbed so they can
fix
> > again, and I will surely need a rental car for a few days.
> >
> > Sorry for the diatribe, but I must be the sole statistical anomaly here
(or
> > am I) - has anyone else seen a hydraulic clutch go bad (leaking to the
point
> > of ensuring you cannot get into gear) on a 2003 Accord EX coupe with a
> > 5-speed? This is the standard 2.4L engine obviously.
>
> Your vehicle is still under warranty--let the dealer do the work. If you
> do it yourself or hire a private mechanic to do it--Honda will use this as
> an escuse to not do work on the specific problem.

News Scout

Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles). The
towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money spent at
all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as this car
is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design defect
(and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission. The
non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is not
something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one thing.
Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.

I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California and this
may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic outsells
the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed 2.4L
2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem than just
the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential problem on
their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the hell
knows.

We'll see.................


"Bill B. Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:billbjohnson555-1910031828500001@pm5-broad-127.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <9qbkb.2170$W16.332@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, "News
> Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > After searching several forums and this NG for a similar issue, I was
> > wondering if anyone has experienced a hydraulic leaking issue with a
5-speed
> > Accord EX? I picked this car up in March this year, drove it 7,500
miles,
> > had already performed the initial oil change, and was plenty happy when
the
> > clutch went totally soft this week while driving to work. Turns out the
> > hydraulic pump for the clutch leaked (the dealer said it was a
> > manufacturer's defect) and needed to be replaced. With a broken-in 2003
> > Honda, I was blown away something like this could go wrong so early in
the
> > car's lifetime.
> >
> > Anyway, they fixed it and I was happy, although somewhat displeased with
my
> > first Honda ever (after several bad GM experiences, I decided on Honda
after
> > considering a Toyota Solara and Nissan Altima).
> >
> > As luck would have it, ten minutes after I left the dealer, the clutch
went
> > soft again and I could not get the 5-speed into any gear at all.
Stranded -
> > again. The 2003 Accord is being loaded now onto a flatbed so they can
fix
> > again, and I will surely need a rental car for a few days.
> >
> > Sorry for the diatribe, but I must be the sole statistical anomaly here
(or
> > am I) - has anyone else seen a hydraulic clutch go bad (leaking to the
point
> > of ensuring you cannot get into gear) on a 2003 Accord EX coupe with a
> > 5-speed? This is the standard 2.4L engine obviously.
>
> Your vehicle is still under warranty--let the dealer do the work. If you
> do it yourself or hire a private mechanic to do it--Honda will use this as
> an escuse to not do work on the specific problem.

Bill B. Johnson

In article <x7Ukb.4431$S52.803@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.n et>, "News
Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles). The
> towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money spent at
> all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as this car
> is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design defect
> (and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
> center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission. The
> non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is not
> something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one thing.
> Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.
>
> I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California and this
> may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic outsells
> the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed 2.4L
> 2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem than just
> the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential problem on
> their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the hell
> knows.

You may be right--this could be a bigger issue than just the problem with
your car. Many car companies try to keep problems that effect lots of cars
a secret from the public. They usually just fix the problems under the
warranty program as the owners bring them in for service. They will notify
the Honda mechanics via of special notices so they can fix the problems on
those effected vehicles. Rarely ever do car companies annouce a major
recall since a major recall will in most cases appear as a major news
story and no car company likes it to happen.

Bill B. Johnson

In article <x7Ukb.4431$S52.803@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.n et>, "News
Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles). The
> towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money spent at
> all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as this car
> is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design defect
> (and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
> center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission. The
> non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is not
> something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one thing.
> Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.
>
> I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California and this
> may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic outsells
> the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed 2.4L
> 2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem than just
> the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential problem on
> their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the hell
> knows.

You may be right--this could be a bigger issue than just the problem with
your car. Many car companies try to keep problems that effect lots of cars
a secret from the public. They usually just fix the problems under the
warranty program as the owners bring them in for service. They will notify
the Honda mechanics via of special notices so they can fix the problems on
those effected vehicles. Rarely ever do car companies annouce a major
recall since a major recall will in most cases appear as a major news
story and no car company likes it to happen.

Bill B. Johnson

In article <x7Ukb.4431$S52.803@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.n et>, "News
Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles). The
> towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money spent at
> all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as this car
> is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design defect
> (and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
> center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission. The
> non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is not
> something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one thing.
> Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.
>
> I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California and this
> may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic outsells
> the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed 2.4L
> 2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem than just
> the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential problem on
> their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the hell
> knows.

You may be right--this could be a bigger issue than just the problem with
your car. Many car companies try to keep problems that effect lots of cars
a secret from the public. They usually just fix the problems under the
warranty program as the owners bring them in for service. They will notify
the Honda mechanics via of special notices so they can fix the problems on
those effected vehicles. Rarely ever do car companies annouce a major
recall since a major recall will in most cases appear as a major news
story and no car company likes it to happen.

News Scout

Us an update to this NG....

The root cause of the issue was this: a metal piece in very close proximity
to the clutch mechanism had rubbed a small metal hose that connects the
clutch slave cylinder to the clutch master cylinder to the point that this
small hose had developed a "pinhole" leak analogous to a copper water pipe.

Hence, when the slave clutch cylinder was originally replaced, the dealer
thought that was the problem, seeing as it was covered with hydraulic fluid.
However, they did not notice or find through testing that the slave cylinder
was fine, but the small metal pipe that connects the slave and master clutch
cylinders had a tiny leak. So 30 minutes after I drove the "fixed" Accord
off the lot and applied the clutch a few times, all the hydraulic fluid
again completely leaked out of the system and clutch pressure went away with
no functioning hydraulic system.

The repair report said something about the proximity of this pipe in
relation to another unrelated engine component, after several thousand
miles, could cause friction activity leading to a leak. As Oklahoma has
crappy roads, this jostling of the car over the last six months may have
contributed to an early failure.

So, the end result - Honda fabricated a new design (or they had a local shop
do it) for this small pipe and made one for this Accord that ensures there
is no contact with it and any other piece of the clutch or engine assembly,
hence solving this issue.

I am quite perplexed that computer-assisted modeling and accelerated life
testing, in the thousands of variables that were probably used, did not
catch this design flaw. Being Six Sigma and ISO trained, the end analysis
tells me that there was definitely an error made in this area of the vehicle
insofar as design.

Oh well, it's purring again and all seems to be well. It's so nice to get
rid of that Ford Focus and relax in my car's environment. I'll give Honda
one thing - their road and engine noise suppression is excellent. The sound
tolerances remind me of a Lexus.

Thanks for listening.

Ciao.


"Bill B. Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:billbjohnson555-2110031026490001@pm3-broad-201.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <x7Ukb.4431$S52.803@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.n et>, "News
> Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles). The
> > towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money spent
at
> > all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as this
car
> > is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design defect
> > (and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
> > center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission.
The
> > non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is not
> > something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one thing.
> > Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.
> >
> > I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California and
this
> > may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic
outsells
> > the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed
2.4L
> > 2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem than
just
> > the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential problem
on
> > their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the hell
> > knows.
>
> You may be right--this could be a bigger issue than just the problem with
> your car. Many car companies try to keep problems that effect lots of cars
> a secret from the public. They usually just fix the problems under the
> warranty program as the owners bring them in for service. They will notify
> the Honda mechanics via of special notices so they can fix the problems on
> those effected vehicles. Rarely ever do car companies annouce a major
> recall since a major recall will in most cases appear as a major news
> story and no car company likes it to happen.

News Scout

Us an update to this NG....

The root cause of the issue was this: a metal piece in very close proximity
to the clutch mechanism had rubbed a small metal hose that connects the
clutch slave cylinder to the clutch master cylinder to the point that this
small hose had developed a "pinhole" leak analogous to a copper water pipe.

Hence, when the slave clutch cylinder was originally replaced, the dealer
thought that was the problem, seeing as it was covered with hydraulic fluid.
However, they did not notice or find through testing that the slave cylinder
was fine, but the small metal pipe that connects the slave and master clutch
cylinders had a tiny leak. So 30 minutes after I drove the "fixed" Accord
off the lot and applied the clutch a few times, all the hydraulic fluid
again completely leaked out of the system and clutch pressure went away with
no functioning hydraulic system.

The repair report said something about the proximity of this pipe in
relation to another unrelated engine component, after several thousand
miles, could cause friction activity leading to a leak. As Oklahoma has
crappy roads, this jostling of the car over the last six months may have
contributed to an early failure.

So, the end result - Honda fabricated a new design (or they had a local shop
do it) for this small pipe and made one for this Accord that ensures there
is no contact with it and any other piece of the clutch or engine assembly,
hence solving this issue.

I am quite perplexed that computer-assisted modeling and accelerated life
testing, in the thousands of variables that were probably used, did not
catch this design flaw. Being Six Sigma and ISO trained, the end analysis
tells me that there was definitely an error made in this area of the vehicle
insofar as design.

Oh well, it's purring again and all seems to be well. It's so nice to get
rid of that Ford Focus and relax in my car's environment. I'll give Honda
one thing - their road and engine noise suppression is excellent. The sound
tolerances remind me of a Lexus.

Thanks for listening.

Ciao.


"Bill B. Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:billbjohnson555-2110031026490001@pm3-broad-201.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <x7Ukb.4431$S52.803@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.n et>, "News
> Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles). The
> > towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money spent
at
> > all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as this
car
> > is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design defect
> > (and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
> > center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission.
The
> > non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is not
> > something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one thing.
> > Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.
> >
> > I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California and
this
> > may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic
outsells
> > the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed
2.4L
> > 2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem than
just
> > the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential problem
on
> > their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the hell
> > knows.
>
> You may be right--this could be a bigger issue than just the problem with
> your car. Many car companies try to keep problems that effect lots of cars
> a secret from the public. They usually just fix the problems under the
> warranty program as the owners bring them in for service. They will notify
> the Honda mechanics via of special notices so they can fix the problems on
> those effected vehicles. Rarely ever do car companies annouce a major
> recall since a major recall will in most cases appear as a major news
> story and no car company likes it to happen.

News Scout

Us an update to this NG....

The root cause of the issue was this: a metal piece in very close proximity
to the clutch mechanism had rubbed a small metal hose that connects the
clutch slave cylinder to the clutch master cylinder to the point that this
small hose had developed a "pinhole" leak analogous to a copper water pipe.

Hence, when the slave clutch cylinder was originally replaced, the dealer
thought that was the problem, seeing as it was covered with hydraulic fluid.
However, they did not notice or find through testing that the slave cylinder
was fine, but the small metal pipe that connects the slave and master clutch
cylinders had a tiny leak. So 30 minutes after I drove the "fixed" Accord
off the lot and applied the clutch a few times, all the hydraulic fluid
again completely leaked out of the system and clutch pressure went away with
no functioning hydraulic system.

The repair report said something about the proximity of this pipe in
relation to another unrelated engine component, after several thousand
miles, could cause friction activity leading to a leak. As Oklahoma has
crappy roads, this jostling of the car over the last six months may have
contributed to an early failure.

So, the end result - Honda fabricated a new design (or they had a local shop
do it) for this small pipe and made one for this Accord that ensures there
is no contact with it and any other piece of the clutch or engine assembly,
hence solving this issue.

I am quite perplexed that computer-assisted modeling and accelerated life
testing, in the thousands of variables that were probably used, did not
catch this design flaw. Being Six Sigma and ISO trained, the end analysis
tells me that there was definitely an error made in this area of the vehicle
insofar as design.

Oh well, it's purring again and all seems to be well. It's so nice to get
rid of that Ford Focus and relax in my car's environment. I'll give Honda
one thing - their road and engine noise suppression is excellent. The sound
tolerances remind me of a Lexus.

Thanks for listening.

Ciao.


"Bill B. Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:billbjohnson555-2110031026490001@pm3-broad-201.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <x7Ukb.4431$S52.803@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.n et>, "News
> Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles). The
> > towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money spent
at
> > all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as this
car
> > is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design defect
> > (and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
> > center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission.
The
> > non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is not
> > something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one thing.
> > Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.
> >
> > I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California and
this
> > may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic
outsells
> > the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed
2.4L
> > 2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem than
just
> > the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential problem
on
> > their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the hell
> > knows.
>
> You may be right--this could be a bigger issue than just the problem with
> your car. Many car companies try to keep problems that effect lots of cars
> a secret from the public. They usually just fix the problems under the
> warranty program as the owners bring them in for service. They will notify
> the Honda mechanics via of special notices so they can fix the problems on
> those effected vehicles. Rarely ever do car companies annouce a major
> recall since a major recall will in most cases appear as a major news
> story and no car company likes it to happen.

Bill B. Johnson

In article <y7hlb.236$wc3.9@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> , "News
Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Us an update to this NG....
>
> The root cause of the issue was this: a metal piece in very close proximity
> to the clutch mechanism had rubbed a small metal hose that connects the
> clutch slave cylinder to the clutch master cylinder to the point that this
> small hose had developed a "pinhole" leak analogous to a copper water pipe.
>
> Hence, when the slave clutch cylinder was originally replaced, the dealer
> thought that was the problem, seeing as it was covered with hydraulic fluid.
> However, they did not notice or find through testing that the slave cylinder
> was fine, but the small metal pipe that connects the slave and master clutch
> cylinders had a tiny leak. So 30 minutes after I drove the "fixed" Accord
> off the lot and applied the clutch a few times, all the hydraulic fluid
> again completely leaked out of the system and clutch pressure went away with
> no functioning hydraulic system.
>
> The repair report said something about the proximity of this pipe in
> relation to another unrelated engine component, after several thousand
> miles, could cause friction activity leading to a leak. As Oklahoma has
> crappy roads, this jostling of the car over the last six months may have
> contributed to an early failure.
>
> So, the end result - Honda fabricated a new design (or they had a local shop
> do it) for this small pipe and made one for this Accord that ensures there
> is no contact with it and any other piece of the clutch or engine assembly,
> hence solving this issue.
>
> I am quite perplexed that computer-assisted modeling and accelerated life
> testing, in the thousands of variables that were probably used, did not
> catch this design flaw. Being Six Sigma and ISO trained, the end analysis
> tells me that there was definitely an error made in this area of the vehicle
> insofar as design.
>
> Oh well, it's purring again and all seems to be well. It's so nice to get
> rid of that Ford Focus and relax in my car's environment. I'll give Honda
> one thing - their road and engine noise suppression is excellent. The sound
> tolerances remind me of a Lexus.
>
> Thanks for listening.
>
> Ciao.
>
>
> "Bill B. Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:billbjohnson555-2110031026490001@pm3-broad-201.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> > In article <x7Ukb.4431$S52.803@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.n et>, "News
> > Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles). The
> > > towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money spent
> at
> > > all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as this
> car
> > > is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design defect
> > > (and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
> > > center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission.
> The
> > > non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is not
> > > something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one thing.
> > > Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.
> > >
> > > I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California and
> this
> > > may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic
> outsells
> > > the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed
> 2.4L
> > > 2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem than
> just
> > > the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential problem
> on
> > > their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the hell
> > > knows.
> >
> > You may be right--this could be a bigger issue than just the problem with
> > your car. Many car companies try to keep problems that effect lots of cars
> > a secret from the public. They usually just fix the problems under the
> > warranty program as the owners bring them in for service. They will notify
> > the Honda mechanics via of special notices so they can fix the problems on
> > those effected vehicles. Rarely ever do car companies annouce a major
> > recall since a major recall will in most cases appear as a major news
> > story and no car company likes it to happen.

I'm glad that your problem has now been fixed to your satisfaction. You
might call the mechanic and ask him to advise Honda Inc. of the problem so
they can repair the problem in the same way related to many other vehicles
that have the same problem. They can also correct the design flaw on next
year's model of the same vehicle.

Bill B. Johnson

In article <y7hlb.236$wc3.9@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> , "News
Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Us an update to this NG....
>
> The root cause of the issue was this: a metal piece in very close proximity
> to the clutch mechanism had rubbed a small metal hose that connects the
> clutch slave cylinder to the clutch master cylinder to the point that this
> small hose had developed a "pinhole" leak analogous to a copper water pipe.
>
> Hence, when the slave clutch cylinder was originally replaced, the dealer
> thought that was the problem, seeing as it was covered with hydraulic fluid.
> However, they did not notice or find through testing that the slave cylinder
> was fine, but the small metal pipe that connects the slave and master clutch
> cylinders had a tiny leak. So 30 minutes after I drove the "fixed" Accord
> off the lot and applied the clutch a few times, all the hydraulic fluid
> again completely leaked out of the system and clutch pressure went away with
> no functioning hydraulic system.
>
> The repair report said something about the proximity of this pipe in
> relation to another unrelated engine component, after several thousand
> miles, could cause friction activity leading to a leak. As Oklahoma has
> crappy roads, this jostling of the car over the last six months may have
> contributed to an early failure.
>
> So, the end result - Honda fabricated a new design (or they had a local shop
> do it) for this small pipe and made one for this Accord that ensures there
> is no contact with it and any other piece of the clutch or engine assembly,
> hence solving this issue.
>
> I am quite perplexed that computer-assisted modeling and accelerated life
> testing, in the thousands of variables that were probably used, did not
> catch this design flaw. Being Six Sigma and ISO trained, the end analysis
> tells me that there was definitely an error made in this area of the vehicle
> insofar as design.
>
> Oh well, it's purring again and all seems to be well. It's so nice to get
> rid of that Ford Focus and relax in my car's environment. I'll give Honda
> one thing - their road and engine noise suppression is excellent. The sound
> tolerances remind me of a Lexus.
>
> Thanks for listening.
>
> Ciao.
>
>
> "Bill B. Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:billbjohnson555-2110031026490001@pm3-broad-201.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> > In article <x7Ukb.4431$S52.803@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.n et>, "News
> > Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles). The
> > > towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money spent
> at
> > > all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as this
> car
> > > is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design defect
> > > (and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
> > > center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission.
> The
> > > non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is not
> > > something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one thing.
> > > Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.
> > >
> > > I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California and
> this
> > > may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic
> outsells
> > > the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed
> 2.4L
> > > 2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem than
> just
> > > the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential problem
> on
> > > their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the hell
> > > knows.
> >
> > You may be right--this could be a bigger issue than just the problem with
> > your car. Many car companies try to keep problems that effect lots of cars
> > a secret from the public. They usually just fix the problems under the
> > warranty program as the owners bring them in for service. They will notify
> > the Honda mechanics via of special notices so they can fix the problems on
> > those effected vehicles. Rarely ever do car companies annouce a major
> > recall since a major recall will in most cases appear as a major news
> > story and no car company likes it to happen.

I'm glad that your problem has now been fixed to your satisfaction. You
might call the mechanic and ask him to advise Honda Inc. of the problem so
they can repair the problem in the same way related to many other vehicles
that have the same problem. They can also correct the design flaw on next
year's model of the same vehicle.

Bill B. Johnson

In article <y7hlb.236$wc3.9@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> , "News
Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Us an update to this NG....
>
> The root cause of the issue was this: a metal piece in very close proximity
> to the clutch mechanism had rubbed a small metal hose that connects the
> clutch slave cylinder to the clutch master cylinder to the point that this
> small hose had developed a "pinhole" leak analogous to a copper water pipe.
>
> Hence, when the slave clutch cylinder was originally replaced, the dealer
> thought that was the problem, seeing as it was covered with hydraulic fluid.
> However, they did not notice or find through testing that the slave cylinder
> was fine, but the small metal pipe that connects the slave and master clutch
> cylinders had a tiny leak. So 30 minutes after I drove the "fixed" Accord
> off the lot and applied the clutch a few times, all the hydraulic fluid
> again completely leaked out of the system and clutch pressure went away with
> no functioning hydraulic system.
>
> The repair report said something about the proximity of this pipe in
> relation to another unrelated engine component, after several thousand
> miles, could cause friction activity leading to a leak. As Oklahoma has
> crappy roads, this jostling of the car over the last six months may have
> contributed to an early failure.
>
> So, the end result - Honda fabricated a new design (or they had a local shop
> do it) for this small pipe and made one for this Accord that ensures there
> is no contact with it and any other piece of the clutch or engine assembly,
> hence solving this issue.
>
> I am quite perplexed that computer-assisted modeling and accelerated life
> testing, in the thousands of variables that were probably used, did not
> catch this design flaw. Being Six Sigma and ISO trained, the end analysis
> tells me that there was definitely an error made in this area of the vehicle
> insofar as design.
>
> Oh well, it's purring again and all seems to be well. It's so nice to get
> rid of that Ford Focus and relax in my car's environment. I'll give Honda
> one thing - their road and engine noise suppression is excellent. The sound
> tolerances remind me of a Lexus.
>
> Thanks for listening.
>
> Ciao.
>
>
> "Bill B. Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:billbjohnson555-2110031026490001@pm3-broad-201.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> > In article <x7Ukb.4431$S52.803@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.n et>, "News
> > Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles). The
> > > towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money spent
> at
> > > all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as this
> car
> > > is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design defect
> > > (and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
> > > center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission.
> The
> > > non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is not
> > > something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one thing.
> > > Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.
> > >
> > > I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California and
> this
> > > may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic
> outsells
> > > the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed
> 2.4L
> > > 2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem than
> just
> > > the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential problem
> on
> > > their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the hell
> > > knows.
> >
> > You may be right--this could be a bigger issue than just the problem with
> > your car. Many car companies try to keep problems that effect lots of cars
> > a secret from the public. They usually just fix the problems under the
> > warranty program as the owners bring them in for service. They will notify
> > the Honda mechanics via of special notices so they can fix the problems on
> > those effected vehicles. Rarely ever do car companies annouce a major
> > recall since a major recall will in most cases appear as a major news
> > story and no car company likes it to happen.

I'm glad that your problem has now been fixed to your satisfaction. You
might call the mechanic and ask him to advise Honda Inc. of the problem so
they can repair the problem in the same way related to many other vehicles
that have the same problem. They can also correct the design flaw on next
year's model of the same vehicle.

News Scout

Thanks Bill,

I have done this - the Honda dealer, where the Accord was fixed twice under
warranty, communicated the entire episode to Honda's American HQ
(Engineering Dept). They said this information is now in a national
database to red flag similar repairs/issues that may be caused by this flaw.
No word on how it will be rectified in the 2004 model.

Just glad to have the ride back.


<EOM>


"Bill B. Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:billbjohnson555-2210031239470001@pm5-broad-70.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <y7hlb.236$wc3.9@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> , "News
> Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Us an update to this NG....
> >
> > The root cause of the issue was this: a metal piece in very close
proximity
> > to the clutch mechanism had rubbed a small metal hose that connects the
> > clutch slave cylinder to the clutch master cylinder to the point that
this
> > small hose had developed a "pinhole" leak analogous to a copper water
pipe.
> >
> > Hence, when the slave clutch cylinder was originally replaced, the
dealer
> > thought that was the problem, seeing as it was covered with hydraulic
fluid.
> > However, they did not notice or find through testing that the slave
cylinder
> > was fine, but the small metal pipe that connects the slave and master
clutch
> > cylinders had a tiny leak. So 30 minutes after I drove the "fixed"
Accord
> > off the lot and applied the clutch a few times, all the hydraulic fluid
> > again completely leaked out of the system and clutch pressure went away
with
> > no functioning hydraulic system.
> >
> > The repair report said something about the proximity of this pipe in
> > relation to another unrelated engine component, after several thousand
> > miles, could cause friction activity leading to a leak. As Oklahoma has
> > crappy roads, this jostling of the car over the last six months may have
> > contributed to an early failure.
> >
> > So, the end result - Honda fabricated a new design (or they had a local
shop
> > do it) for this small pipe and made one for this Accord that ensures
there
> > is no contact with it and any other piece of the clutch or engine
assembly,
> > hence solving this issue.
> >
> > I am quite perplexed that computer-assisted modeling and accelerated
life
> > testing, in the thousands of variables that were probably used, did not
> > catch this design flaw. Being Six Sigma and ISO trained, the end
analysis
> > tells me that there was definitely an error made in this area of the
vehicle
> > insofar as design.
> >
> > Oh well, it's purring again and all seems to be well. It's so nice to
get
> > rid of that Ford Focus and relax in my car's environment. I'll give
Honda
> > one thing - their road and engine noise suppression is excellent. The
sound
> > tolerances remind me of a Lexus.
> >
> > Thanks for listening.
> >
> > Ciao.
> >
> >
> > "Bill B. Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
> >
news:billbjohnson555-2110031026490001@pm3-broad-201.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> > > In article <x7Ukb.4431$S52.803@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.n et>,
"News
> > > Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles).
The
> > > > towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money
spent
> > at
> > > > all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as
this
> > car
> > > > is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design
defect
> > > > (and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
> > > > center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission.
> > The
> > > > non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is
not
> > > > something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one
thing.
> > > > Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.
> > > >
> > > > I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California
and
> > this
> > > > may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic
> > outsells
> > > > the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed
> > 2.4L
> > > > 2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem
than
> > just
> > > > the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential
problem
> > on
> > > > their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the
hell
> > > > knows.
> > >
> > > You may be right--this could be a bigger issue than just the problem
with
> > > your car. Many car companies try to keep problems that effect lots of
cars
> > > a secret from the public. They usually just fix the problems under the
> > > warranty program as the owners bring them in for service. They will
notify
> > > the Honda mechanics via of special notices so they can fix the
problems on
> > > those effected vehicles. Rarely ever do car companies annouce a major
> > > recall since a major recall will in most cases appear as a major news
> > > story and no car company likes it to happen.
>
> I'm glad that your problem has now been fixed to your satisfaction. You
> might call the mechanic and ask him to advise Honda Inc. of the problem so
> they can repair the problem in the same way related to many other vehicles
> that have the same problem. They can also correct the design flaw on next
> year's model of the same vehicle.

News Scout

Thanks Bill,

I have done this - the Honda dealer, where the Accord was fixed twice under
warranty, communicated the entire episode to Honda's American HQ
(Engineering Dept). They said this information is now in a national
database to red flag similar repairs/issues that may be caused by this flaw.
No word on how it will be rectified in the 2004 model.

Just glad to have the ride back.


<EOM>


"Bill B. Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:billbjohnson555-2210031239470001@pm5-broad-70.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <y7hlb.236$wc3.9@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> , "News
> Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Us an update to this NG....
> >
> > The root cause of the issue was this: a metal piece in very close
proximity
> > to the clutch mechanism had rubbed a small metal hose that connects the
> > clutch slave cylinder to the clutch master cylinder to the point that
this
> > small hose had developed a "pinhole" leak analogous to a copper water
pipe.
> >
> > Hence, when the slave clutch cylinder was originally replaced, the
dealer
> > thought that was the problem, seeing as it was covered with hydraulic
fluid.
> > However, they did not notice or find through testing that the slave
cylinder
> > was fine, but the small metal pipe that connects the slave and master
clutch
> > cylinders had a tiny leak. So 30 minutes after I drove the "fixed"
Accord
> > off the lot and applied the clutch a few times, all the hydraulic fluid
> > again completely leaked out of the system and clutch pressure went away
with
> > no functioning hydraulic system.
> >
> > The repair report said something about the proximity of this pipe in
> > relation to another unrelated engine component, after several thousand
> > miles, could cause friction activity leading to a leak. As Oklahoma has
> > crappy roads, this jostling of the car over the last six months may have
> > contributed to an early failure.
> >
> > So, the end result - Honda fabricated a new design (or they had a local
shop
> > do it) for this small pipe and made one for this Accord that ensures
there
> > is no contact with it and any other piece of the clutch or engine
assembly,
> > hence solving this issue.
> >
> > I am quite perplexed that computer-assisted modeling and accelerated
life
> > testing, in the thousands of variables that were probably used, did not
> > catch this design flaw. Being Six Sigma and ISO trained, the end
analysis
> > tells me that there was definitely an error made in this area of the
vehicle
> > insofar as design.
> >
> > Oh well, it's purring again and all seems to be well. It's so nice to
get
> > rid of that Ford Focus and relax in my car's environment. I'll give
Honda
> > one thing - their road and engine noise suppression is excellent. The
sound
> > tolerances remind me of a Lexus.
> >
> > Thanks for listening.
> >
> > Ciao.
> >
> >
> > "Bill B. Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
> >
news:billbjohnson555-2110031026490001@pm3-broad-201.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> > > In article <x7Ukb.4431$S52.803@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.n et>,
"News
> > > Scout" <scoutnews@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles).
The
> > > > towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money
spent
> > at
> > > > all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as
this
> > car
> > > > is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design
defect
> > > > (and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
> > > > center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission.
> > The
> > > > non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is
not
> > > > something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one
thing.
> > > > Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.
> > > >
> > > > I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California
and
> > this
> > > > may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic
> > outsells
> > > > the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed
> > 2.4L
> > > > 2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem
than
> > just
> > > > the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential
problem
> > on
> > > > their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the
hell
> > > > knows.
> > >
> > > You may be right--this could be a bigger issue than just the problem
with
> > > your car. Many car companies try to keep problems that effect lots of
cars
> > > a secret from the public. They usually just fix the problems under the
> > > warranty program as the owners bring them in for service. They will
notify
> > > the Honda mechanics via of special notices so they can fix the
problems on
> > > those effected vehicles. Rarely ever do car companies annouce a major
> > > recall since a major recall will in most cases appear as a major news
> > > story and no car company likes it to happen.
>
> I'm glad that your problem has now been fixed to your satisfaction. You
> might call the mechanic and ask him to advise Honda Inc. of the problem so
> they can repair the problem in the same way related to many other vehicles
> that have the same problem. They can also correct the design flaw on next
> year's model of the same vehicle.