Michael Pardee

"Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
newsan.2009.02.18.03.33.01@moria.lan...
> On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:07:47 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:
>
>> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
>> newsan.2009.02.18.01.59.58@moria.lan...
>>> On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:17:33 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> We've made great strides here in the 21st century... You should try
>>> joining it.
>>>
>>>
>> The Volvo and Nissan had glass headlight lenses - sealed beams, you know
>> - not plastic (see TeGGeR's apt comment in this thread).

(Oops - a different thread)

>
> Yes, I know. My point was that the method for changing headlight bulbs
> has changed since the mid-80's/early 90's that you're talking about. You
> might find it easier now, if you were to get a car of less than 16 years
> old...
>

Simpler, but not necessarily easier. Capsule lamps are often a wrestling
match to change - one my old fingers have an increasingly tough time with -
unless they fail prematurely, as the OP's did. And newer cars are at least
as likely to need something removed to get to the bulb. The last lights I
changed (in my daughter's Chevy) required removing the light assembly, and
that car is a 2004. Her Accord uses capsule lamps that are a booger to
change because the plastic is no longer willing to move.

Other than styling, I don't know why sealed beams fell out of favor. They
had no problems with condensation, lens clouding or reflector deterioration.
The lamps themselves were only slightly more expensive than capsule lamps
and I never heard of them getting into the mysterious premature failure
problems that occasionally crop up with capsule lamps. I have seen several
threads complaining of lifetimes of only a few months - sometimes on one
side, sometimes on both sides - and I have never seen a solution. I remember
my mother having cars that took headlamp bulbs back in the '50s... this
seems like another step backward.

Mike

BiGGie

On Feb 18, 4:25 am, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
> "Dan C" <youmustbejok...@lan.invalid> wrote in message
>
> newsan.2009.02.18.03.33.01@moria.lan...
>
> > On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:07:47 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> >> "Dan C" <youmustbejok...@lan.invalid> wrote in message
> >>newsan.2009.02.18.01.59.58@moria.lan...
> >>> On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:17:33 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> >>> We've made great strides here in the 21st century... You should try
> >>> joining it.
>
> >> The Volvo and Nissan had glass headlight lenses - sealed beams, you know
> >> - not plastic (see TeGGeR's apt comment in this thread).
>
> (Oops - a different thread)
>
>
>
> > Yes, I know. My point was that the method for changing headlight bulbs
> > has changed since the mid-80's/early 90's that you're talking about. You
> > might find it easier now, if you were to get a car of less than 16 years
> > old...
>
> Simpler, but not necessarily easier. Capsule lamps are often a wrestling
> match to change - one my old fingers have an increasingly tough time with-
> unless they fail prematurely, as the OP's did. And newer cars are at least
> as likely to need something removed to get to the bulb. The last lights I
> changed (in my daughter's Chevy) required removing the light assembly, and
> that car is a 2004. Her Accord uses capsule lamps that are a booger to
> change because the plastic is no longer willing to move.
>
> Other than styling, I don't know why sealed beams fell out of favor. They
> had no problems with condensation, lens clouding or reflector deterioration.
> The lamps themselves were only slightly more expensive than capsule lamps
> and I never heard of them getting into the mysterious premature failure
> problems that occasionally crop up with capsule lamps. I have seen several
> threads complaining of lifetimes of only a few months - sometimes on one
> side, sometimes on both sides - and I have never seen a solution. I remember
> my mother having cars that took headlamp bulbs back in the '50s... this
> seems like another step backward.
>
> Mike

Sealed beams are indeed a better way to go. I am facing a complete
front bumper removal to deal with the massive amount of condensation
on my 98 Civic. What a pain in the ****! I wish it were as easy as my
87 Accord.

MG

"Michael Pardee" <null@null.org> wrote in message
news:c4ydncvQyYxIMAfUnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@sedona.net.. .
> "Truckdude" <plantabush@texass.com> wrote in message
> news:WPsml.198613$zQ4.120905@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
>>
>> Headlight replacement being a "service shop deal" made me do a
>> double-take as well.
>>
>
> OTOH, a lot of people take their cars for oil changes and I am always
> surprised how few do their own brakes. I changed the headlights in my
> daughter's other car, a 2004 Malibu (her husband is now the main driver of
> the Honda [eek!]). I didn't look to see if the procedure was in the
> owner's manual (I am not the owner) but it was in the Chilton's. First
> step: remove the bolts that hold the light assembly to access the bulbs.
> Last step: re-aim the headlights. My wife would change fuses but would
> never wrestle with headlights, on the road or in the garage. If she didn't
> have a mechanic at home she would take it to a shop. The headlights in her
> Prius are like those in the Malibu: inaccessible until the headlight
> assembly is removed. There are indeed instructions in the owner's manual -
> three pages of them. Well, I'll be!
>
> Mike
>
>
I think older cars didn't have instructions in the manual because the
replacement of those sealed beams was so easy and obvious. The ones I did,
on several cars, required removing 3 or 4 screws on the rim, popping a new
bulb in the socket, and replacing the rim and screws. I'm no ace mechanic,
but I didn't really need to look that one up.

As for the sealed beam topic, I think the newer lights are much brighter and
more efficient, and to build them into sealed beams would be significantly
more expensive than making them in pieces as they now do.

mg

Tegger

"Michael Pardee" <null@null.org> wrote in
news:K6qdnYVoJ6zcYwbUnZ2dnUVZ_haWnZ2d@sedona.net:


>
> Other than styling, I don't know why sealed beams fell out of favor.



Sealed beams had low output and poor beam distribution.

Sealed beams were state-of-the-art for 1940. Problem is, by 1980 they
were still state-of-the-art for 1940. No other country on earth except
the US was forced by its government to install 1940 headlamps on cars
made forty years later.

Sealing technology in 1940 was crude, to say the least. It was very
difficult back then to properly seal the rear of the headlamp from
moisture, especially considering the rear of the headlamp was fully
exposed to road splash. Sealed beams were an attempt at alleviating this
problem through the simple device of making the back of the reflector
permanently, well, sealed.

There is absolutely no reason why a sealed beam lamp cannot have the
very same lens, reflector and bulb as a replaceable-bulb lamp. In fact,
the earliest sealed beams actually /did/ have an entire ordinary bulb
"sealed" into the reflector. However, sealed beams were solely a US
government imposition. Nobody else in the world thought they were worth
imposing, so the entire world's stock of sealed beams ended up
conforming to US law. That's why they're all so crappy.

The US did eventually (about 1981 or so) allow halogen sealed beams with
output and beam pattern closely matching regular sealed beams. These
eventually were suppplanted by the new aero lamps.

Replaceable-bulb lamps that conformed to the two standard round and
rectangular sizes were widely available all over the world for decades
(except in the US, where they were prohibited).

What changed everything was the advent of "aerodynamic" styling, lower
hoodlines and ever-more crowded engine bays. It's this that makes those
bulbs so damned difficult to get to. Also, bulbs last quite a lot longer
than they used to, so there's much less need these days to be able to
get to the rear of the lamp assembly.



> They had no problems with condensation, lens clouding



Lens clouding is another fact of government regulation. Apparently the
safety nuts thought broken plastic presented less of a hazard than
broken glass to the pedestrian who gets run over by a car.

The NHTSA requires that plastic lenses must have an epoxy coating that
resists abrasion. It's this epoxy which clouds and yellows. How often
have you seen cars with yellowed headlamps, but the marker lamps right
next to them are crystal clear?



> or reflector
> deterioration.



Moisture-caused reflector deterioration was the primary reason the old
separate-bulb lamps were outlawed.



> The lamps themselves were only slightly more expensive
> than capsule lamps and I never heard of them getting into the
> mysterious premature failure problems that occasionally crop up with
> capsule lamps. I have seen several threads complaining of lifetimes of
> only a few months - sometimes on one side, sometimes on both sides -
> and I have never seen a solution. I remember my mother having cars
> that took headlamp bulbs back in the '50s... this seems like another
> step backward.
>



Sealed beams were made mandatory for the 1940 model year in the US.
Prior to that, every car used replaceable bulbs.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Leftie

Tegger wrote:


"What changed everything was the advent of "aerodynamic" styling, lower
hoodlines and ever-more crowded engine bays. It's this that makes those
bulbs so damned difficult to get to. Also, bulbs last quite a lot longer
than they used to, so there's much less need these days to be able to
get to the rear of the lamp assembly."

Here's the big problem with those replaceable halogen bulbs: they
tend to fail in Winter, which is the same time that people in colder
climates find that the plastic is too stiff to flex properly. Add that
to the general inconvenience of working on a car outdoors or in an
unheated garage in Winter, and the fact that you have to worry about
getting even a tiny bit of skin oil or engine bay grease on the bulb
while maneuvering it into place, and you have people like Michael (and,
often, me) wishing for the days of sealed beams again.

Tegger

Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote in news:cIqnl.19385$RJ7.8652@newsfe18.iad:

> Tegger wrote:
>
>
> "What changed everything was the advent of "aerodynamic" styling, lower
> hoodlines and ever-more crowded engine bays. It's this that makes those
> bulbs so damned difficult to get to. Also, bulbs last quite a lot longer
> than they used to, so there's much less need these days to be able to
> get to the rear of the lamp assembly."
>
> Here's the big problem with those replaceable halogen bulbs: they
> tend to fail in Winter, which is the same time that people in colder
> climates find that the plastic is too stiff to flex properly. Add that
> to the general inconvenience of working on a car outdoors or in an
> unheated garage in Winter, and the fact that you have to worry about
> getting even a tiny bit of skin oil or engine bay grease on the bulb
> while maneuvering it into place, and you have people like Michael (and,
> often, me) wishing for the days of sealed beams again.



What you're wishing for is not specifically sealed beams. You want
lens/reflector assemblies that can be easily removed towards the front so
the bulbs are easier to get at.

Hey, here's an idea I think is a wonderful one: Arrange the lamps such that
you'd undo a couple of clips and the lamp assembly would slide out towards
the front and off the car. Maybe mount the electrical connector such that
seating the lamp all the way home automatically reconnects it. Bulb
replacement then would be, as the British say, a doddle. This would be even
easier than the old sealed-beam mounting method, and would also allow
continued use of aerodynamic lamps.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Tegger

"Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in news:gndpef.210.0@poczta.onet.pl:

> "Michael Pardee" <null@null.org> wrote in message
> news5GdnbR_bauAqwfUnZ2dnUVZ_qPinZ2d@sedona.net.. .
>> So I'm told. I am very surprised;
>> I've never seen it in any owner's manual I have had.... but I stand
>> corrected.
>
> You need to open the manual first to see it in there... ;-)
> I saw the head light replacement info in ALL of my user manuals.
> Camry 1995, Sentra 1994, Accord 2004 - what cars did you drive before?
>
>


I've just had a look at two old Owner's Manuals I have: The 1975 Toyota
Corolla (7" round sealed beams), and the 1981 Corolla (large rectangular
sealed beams).

The '75 manual describes -- both in text and pictures -- headlamp
replacement. The '81 manual mentions the headlamps not at all. Weird, huh?

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/