Jim Yanik

Jonathan Upright <qaesar1@carolina.rr.com> wrote in
news:Xruze.7401$%y1.112945@twister.southeast.rr.co m:

> jerry250d wrote:
>> my son has a 90 civic that will not start when it is hot outside or
>> when the engine is hot. once it starts it runs fine. some people say
>> fuel pump, but i think that it wouldn't run right after it started if
>> that was the problem. I saw another post about a main relay being a
>> problem but i'm not familiar with that, either what it does, where it
>> is located, or what to do about it.
>> is this a coomon problem with that breed of civics and can anyone
>> tell me where to start looking to fix this problem
>>
>
> Let me guess: The starter turns the engine properly, but it seems
> like it's not getting any fuel. And if you keep the key turned long
> enough, the Check Engine light will come on. Am I right? If so, the
> problem is definitely the main relay, which these other guys have been
> pointing you to. (I added this because I own a 1990 Civic myself and
> am very familiar with this problem) If you own and are handy with a
> soldering iron, you can fix this problem yourself for free. See
> Tegger's FAQ. Also, read through the thread I posted, subject is "90
> Civic Main Relay and More"
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Jonathan
>
> P.S. You can bet on having to replace/fix the main relay every 2
> years or so if you don't buy a brand-new one. I've had my Civic since
> 2001 and I've just now fixed the main relay problem for the 3rd time.
> However, I admit the first two times I just bought another used one
> cheap from a junkyard. ;-)
>

I resoldered my 94 Integra MR only once in 4 years.Not a single problem
since.
And I live in Florida,a sunny,hot climate.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Jim Yanik

Jonathan Upright <qaesar1@carolina.rr.com> wrote in
news:Xruze.7401$%y1.112945@twister.southeast.rr.co m:

> jerry250d wrote:
>> my son has a 90 civic that will not start when it is hot outside or
>> when the engine is hot. once it starts it runs fine. some people say
>> fuel pump, but i think that it wouldn't run right after it started if
>> that was the problem. I saw another post about a main relay being a
>> problem but i'm not familiar with that, either what it does, where it
>> is located, or what to do about it.
>> is this a coomon problem with that breed of civics and can anyone
>> tell me where to start looking to fix this problem
>>
>
> Let me guess: The starter turns the engine properly, but it seems
> like it's not getting any fuel. And if you keep the key turned long
> enough, the Check Engine light will come on. Am I right? If so, the
> problem is definitely the main relay, which these other guys have been
> pointing you to. (I added this because I own a 1990 Civic myself and
> am very familiar with this problem) If you own and are handy with a
> soldering iron, you can fix this problem yourself for free. See
> Tegger's FAQ. Also, read through the thread I posted, subject is "90
> Civic Main Relay and More"
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Jonathan
>
> P.S. You can bet on having to replace/fix the main relay every 2
> years or so if you don't buy a brand-new one. I've had my Civic since
> 2001 and I've just now fixed the main relay problem for the 3rd time.
> However, I admit the first two times I just bought another used one
> cheap from a junkyard. ;-)
>

I resoldered my 94 Integra MR only once in 4 years.Not a single problem
since.
And I live in Florida,a sunny,hot climate.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Eric

Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> I'd bet the vulnerability is still there. The basic problem is they mount
> heavy items (the relays themselves) on circuit boards using the solder for
> the mechanical support, then mount the whole thing to the car chassis so
> the road and engine vibration can fatigue the solder. A lot of mfrs do it
> because the problem rarely shows up within the warranty period.
>
> Mike

Hmmm, wouldn't a potential solution be to soft mount it to the chassis with
some rubber bushings?

Eric

Eric

Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> I'd bet the vulnerability is still there. The basic problem is they mount
> heavy items (the relays themselves) on circuit boards using the solder for
> the mechanical support, then mount the whole thing to the car chassis so
> the road and engine vibration can fatigue the solder. A lot of mfrs do it
> because the problem rarely shows up within the warranty period.
>
> Mike

Hmmm, wouldn't a potential solution be to soft mount it to the chassis with
some rubber bushings?

Eric

Michael Pardee

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:42CEDA5D.257243EB@spam.now...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>> I'd bet the vulnerability is still there. The basic problem is they mount
>> heavy items (the relays themselves) on circuit boards using the solder
>> for
>> the mechanical support, then mount the whole thing to the car chassis so
>> the road and engine vibration can fatigue the solder. A lot of mfrs do it
>> because the problem rarely shows up within the warranty period.
>>
>> Mike
>
> Hmmm, wouldn't a potential solution be to soft mount it to the chassis
> with
> some rubber bushings?
>
> Eric

I'd sure think so. Even if it only softened the vibrations it could make a
big difference.

Mike

Michael Pardee

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:42CEDA5D.257243EB@spam.now...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>> I'd bet the vulnerability is still there. The basic problem is they mount
>> heavy items (the relays themselves) on circuit boards using the solder
>> for
>> the mechanical support, then mount the whole thing to the car chassis so
>> the road and engine vibration can fatigue the solder. A lot of mfrs do it
>> because the problem rarely shows up within the warranty period.
>>
>> Mike
>
> Hmmm, wouldn't a potential solution be to soft mount it to the chassis
> with
> some rubber bushings?
>
> Eric

I'd sure think so. Even if it only softened the vibrations it could make a
big difference.

Mike

Jonathan Upright

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Jonathan Upright <qaesar1@carolina.rr.com> wrote in
> news:Xruze.7401$%y1.112945@twister.southeast.rr.co m:
>
>
>>jerry250d wrote:
>>
>>>my son has a 90 civic that will not start when it is hot outside or
>>>when the engine is hot. once it starts it runs fine. some people say
>>>fuel pump, but i think that it wouldn't run right after it started if
>>>that was the problem. I saw another post about a main relay being a
>>>problem but i'm not familiar with that, either what it does, where it
>>>is located, or what to do about it.
>>>is this a coomon problem with that breed of civics and can anyone
>>>tell me where to start looking to fix this problem
>>>
>>
>>Let me guess: The starter turns the engine properly, but it seems
>>like it's not getting any fuel. And if you keep the key turned long
>>enough, the Check Engine light will come on. Am I right? If so, the
>>problem is definitely the main relay, which these other guys have been
>>pointing you to. (I added this because I own a 1990 Civic myself and
>>am very familiar with this problem) If you own and are handy with a
>>soldering iron, you can fix this problem yourself for free. See
>>Tegger's FAQ. Also, read through the thread I posted, subject is "90
>>Civic Main Relay and More"
>>
>>Good Luck!
>>
>>Jonathan
>>
>>P.S. You can bet on having to replace/fix the main relay every 2
>>years or so if you don't buy a brand-new one. I've had my Civic since
>>2001 and I've just now fixed the main relay problem for the 3rd time.
>>However, I admit the first two times I just bought another used one
>>cheap from a junkyard. ;-)
>>
>
>
> I resoldered my 94 Integra MR only once in 4 years.Not a single problem
> since.
> And I live in Florida,a sunny,hot climate.
>
Oh, heh, I meant this is the first time I've resoldered it, too. The
last 2 times I just bought used ones and they only lasted two years.
Good to know that the resoldering job will last longer. Saves $money$!

;-)

Jonathan

Jonathan Upright

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Jonathan Upright <qaesar1@carolina.rr.com> wrote in
> news:Xruze.7401$%y1.112945@twister.southeast.rr.co m:
>
>
>>jerry250d wrote:
>>
>>>my son has a 90 civic that will not start when it is hot outside or
>>>when the engine is hot. once it starts it runs fine. some people say
>>>fuel pump, but i think that it wouldn't run right after it started if
>>>that was the problem. I saw another post about a main relay being a
>>>problem but i'm not familiar with that, either what it does, where it
>>>is located, or what to do about it.
>>>is this a coomon problem with that breed of civics and can anyone
>>>tell me where to start looking to fix this problem
>>>
>>
>>Let me guess: The starter turns the engine properly, but it seems
>>like it's not getting any fuel. And if you keep the key turned long
>>enough, the Check Engine light will come on. Am I right? If so, the
>>problem is definitely the main relay, which these other guys have been
>>pointing you to. (I added this because I own a 1990 Civic myself and
>>am very familiar with this problem) If you own and are handy with a
>>soldering iron, you can fix this problem yourself for free. See
>>Tegger's FAQ. Also, read through the thread I posted, subject is "90
>>Civic Main Relay and More"
>>
>>Good Luck!
>>
>>Jonathan
>>
>>P.S. You can bet on having to replace/fix the main relay every 2
>>years or so if you don't buy a brand-new one. I've had my Civic since
>>2001 and I've just now fixed the main relay problem for the 3rd time.
>>However, I admit the first two times I just bought another used one
>>cheap from a junkyard. ;-)
>>
>
>
> I resoldered my 94 Integra MR only once in 4 years.Not a single problem
> since.
> And I live in Florida,a sunny,hot climate.
>
Oh, heh, I meant this is the first time I've resoldered it, too. The
last 2 times I just bought used ones and they only lasted two years.
Good to know that the resoldering job will last longer. Saves $money$!

;-)

Jonathan

Jonathan Upright

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:42CEDA5D.257243EB@spam.now...
>
>>Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>>>I'd bet the vulnerability is still there. The basic problem is they mount
>>>heavy items (the relays themselves) on circuit boards using the solder
>>>for
>>>the mechanical support, then mount the whole thing to the car chassis so
>>>the road and engine vibration can fatigue the solder. A lot of mfrs do it
>>>because the problem rarely shows up within the warranty period.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>
>>Hmmm, wouldn't a potential solution be to soft mount it to the chassis
>>with
>>some rubber bushings?
>>
>>Eric
>
>
> I'd sure think so. Even if it only softened the vibrations it could make a
> big difference.
>
> Mike
>
>
Or do what I did, leave it dangling under the dash...it works fine, and
it's readily accessible if it ever fails again. ;-)

Jonathan

Jonathan Upright

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:42CEDA5D.257243EB@spam.now...
>
>>Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>>>I'd bet the vulnerability is still there. The basic problem is they mount
>>>heavy items (the relays themselves) on circuit boards using the solder
>>>for
>>>the mechanical support, then mount the whole thing to the car chassis so
>>>the road and engine vibration can fatigue the solder. A lot of mfrs do it
>>>because the problem rarely shows up within the warranty period.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>
>>Hmmm, wouldn't a potential solution be to soft mount it to the chassis
>>with
>>some rubber bushings?
>>
>>Eric
>
>
> I'd sure think so. Even if it only softened the vibrations it could make a
> big difference.
>
> Mike
>
>
Or do what I did, leave it dangling under the dash...it works fine, and
it's readily accessible if it ever fails again. ;-)

Jonathan

TeGGeR®

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:uqCdneTi1ZJ3nFLfRVn-2A@sedona.net:

> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message
> news:42CEDA5D.257243EB@spam.now...
>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd bet the vulnerability is still there. The basic problem is they
>>> mount heavy items (the relays themselves) on circuit boards using
>>> the solder for
>>> the mechanical support, then mount the whole thing to the car
>>> chassis so the road and engine vibration can fatigue the solder. A
>>> lot of mfrs do it because the problem rarely shows up within the
>>> warranty period.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> Hmmm, wouldn't a potential solution be to soft mount it to the
>> chassis with
>> some rubber bushings?
>>
>> Eric
>
> I'd sure think so. Even if it only softened the vibrations it could
> make a big difference.
>


It souinds plausible, but too simple. With all the development Honda and
other makers do every minute of every working day, why wouldn't they have
already done this themselves? It would just be a rubber grommet.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR®

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:uqCdneTi1ZJ3nFLfRVn-2A@sedona.net:

> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message
> news:42CEDA5D.257243EB@spam.now...
>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd bet the vulnerability is still there. The basic problem is they
>>> mount heavy items (the relays themselves) on circuit boards using
>>> the solder for
>>> the mechanical support, then mount the whole thing to the car
>>> chassis so the road and engine vibration can fatigue the solder. A
>>> lot of mfrs do it because the problem rarely shows up within the
>>> warranty period.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> Hmmm, wouldn't a potential solution be to soft mount it to the
>> chassis with
>> some rubber bushings?
>>
>> Eric
>
> I'd sure think so. Even if it only softened the vibrations it could
> make a big difference.
>


It souinds plausible, but too simple. With all the development Honda and
other makers do every minute of every working day, why wouldn't they have
already done this themselves? It would just be a rubber grommet.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jim beam

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:42CEDA5D.257243EB@spam.now...
>
>>Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>>>I'd bet the vulnerability is still there. The basic problem is they mount
>>>heavy items (the relays themselves) on circuit boards using the solder
>>>for
>>>the mechanical support, then mount the whole thing to the car chassis so
>>>the road and engine vibration can fatigue the solder. A lot of mfrs do it
>>>because the problem rarely shows up within the warranty period.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>
>>Hmmm, wouldn't a potential solution be to soft mount it to the chassis
>>with
>>some rubber bushings?
>>
>>Eric
>
>
> I'd sure think so. Even if it only softened the vibrations it could make a
> big difference.
>
> Mike
>
>
i don't think it's the g's from the road that are the deal - there's
more shock from the contacts opening & closing. much more likely
thermal fatigue from the relay heating up & cooling down. those things
run much too hot imo. but ventilating them leaves them open to crud
accumulation, so you can't win. best design would be something with
mechanical [screw] mountings for the relay chassis, not the soldered
ones like present, a thermal conduction path from the relay chassis to
the external mounting, and restrict solder only to the electricals. but
that would likely cost double the current arrangement, so given that
this car is 15 years old, and a new relay will likely last another 15,
it's not /that/ big a deal to buy a new one & forget about it.

jim beam

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:42CEDA5D.257243EB@spam.now...
>
>>Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>>>I'd bet the vulnerability is still there. The basic problem is they mount
>>>heavy items (the relays themselves) on circuit boards using the solder
>>>for
>>>the mechanical support, then mount the whole thing to the car chassis so
>>>the road and engine vibration can fatigue the solder. A lot of mfrs do it
>>>because the problem rarely shows up within the warranty period.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>
>>Hmmm, wouldn't a potential solution be to soft mount it to the chassis
>>with
>>some rubber bushings?
>>
>>Eric
>
>
> I'd sure think so. Even if it only softened the vibrations it could make a
> big difference.
>
> Mike
>
>
i don't think it's the g's from the road that are the deal - there's
more shock from the contacts opening & closing. much more likely
thermal fatigue from the relay heating up & cooling down. those things
run much too hot imo. but ventilating them leaves them open to crud
accumulation, so you can't win. best design would be something with
mechanical [screw] mountings for the relay chassis, not the soldered
ones like present, a thermal conduction path from the relay chassis to
the external mounting, and restrict solder only to the electricals. but
that would likely cost double the current arrangement, so given that
this car is 15 years old, and a new relay will likely last another 15,
it's not /that/ big a deal to buy a new one & forget about it.

Jim Yanik

Jonathan Upright <qaesar1@carolina.rr.com> wrote in
news:4yDze.768$XA.10271@twister.southeast.rr.com:

> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message
>> news:42CEDA5D.257243EB@spam.now...
>>
>>>Michael Pardee wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'd bet the vulnerability is still there. The basic problem is they
>>>>mount heavy items (the relays themselves) on circuit boards using
>>>>the solder for
>>>>the mechanical support, then mount the whole thing to the car
>>>>chassis so the road and engine vibration can fatigue the solder. A
>>>>lot of mfrs do it because the problem rarely shows up within the
>>>>warranty period.
>>>>
>>>>Mike
>>>
>>>Hmmm, wouldn't a potential solution be to soft mount it to the
>>>chassis with
>>>some rubber bushings?
>>>
>>>Eric
>>
>>
>> I'd sure think so. Even if it only softened the vibrations it could
>> make a big difference.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
> Or do what I did, leave it dangling under the dash...it works fine,
> and it's readily accessible if it ever fails again. ;-)
>
> Jonathan

Leave it dangling to short out something,or to flex or abrade the wires for
another type of failure. Or a under-dash fire.

Bolt it back down after resoldering,and it will be fine.Probably last
longer than the rest of the car.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net