Re: 91 Civic Lower at Dr. Side Front...
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
> Elle wrote:
about her 1991 Civic LX, 175k miles
> [snip]
>> About the springs:
>> What's odd to me is that both under load and with the
>> strut
>> assembly removed, the spring lengths were the same.
>
> By "under load" do you mean with the car jacked up and the
> strut extended?

I took three measurements of the coil spring lengths:
1. Car front supported at customary jacking points (the
frame beneath the front doors) for changing a tire (wheels
off, of course)
2. Car front supported beneath lower control arms (wheels
off)
3. Strut assembly fully removed from car and laid on ground,
side by side.

> You need to compare the free length of the spring when
> it's uninstalled from
> the strut assembly to the free length of new springs.

I understand. As I mentioned, having no spring compressor
yet, I haven't done this. I would also have to go after some
new springs... But I see where you're going.

>> Uncompressed, the dr. side control arm bushing is
>> cracked. I
>> think the pass. side one was too. But I didn't take
>> measurements or inspect how they appeared under load, so
>> that seems like a good next step.
>
> A worn bushing might give a ½" or so. I replaced both the
> front and rear
> lower control arm bushings as well as the rear upper
> control arm bushings on
> my Civic about a year ago or so. It made the car drive a
> lot smoother. My
> front lower control arm bushings were also cracked.

Where did you have the bushings removed and then pressed
into place?

Finding a shop that will do this for me is a bit of a hurdle
to get over. I think I can deal with separating the lower
ball joints, once I cave and put the money into the right
tool, per Tegger's site. I separated the ball joints in an
auto shop class once and get the basic idea, as well as some
of the precautions to take. Also I see the warnings in the
archives.

I am still tempted to go down to the one junkyard I know
that has a lot of old Civics and see if I can just find a
couple of front control arms in good repair and use them.
The one, new rear control arm I installed (under great
duress, not having very good tools or knowing much about
bolt busting beyond PB Blaster) had only about 5000 miles on
it IIRC and had a bushing(s) that was (were) much better in
appearance than the old one(s).

> My Civic is at about 243,000 miles

That's encouraging!

The superior ride you're getting is also incentive. This is
definitely something to consider for a summer project.
That's what this is right now: After looking everything
over, feeling it was safe enough, and seeing the height
difference wasn't as bad as I thought, I can live with it. I
was walking into the parking lot the other day and saw this
glaring tilt for the first time to my Civic and felt it was
time to take a look at what was happening in front.

I bought some Armor All today and sprayed some on the upper
ball joint rubber boots, wiping them down. Without thinking
about it, on my next trip out, I swear I felt smoother
steering, especially on turns. I know that doesn't make
sense, unless the Armor All soaked in and around the boot a
bit and drove out some of the crud there.

I'll have another go at it all come Monday or so.

Thanks again.

> and I'm hoping to drive it to at least
> 300,000 or so.

Re: 91 Civic Lower at Dr. Side Front...
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
> Elle wrote:
about her 1991 Civic LX, 175k miles
> [snip]
>> About the springs:
>> What's odd to me is that both under load and with the
>> strut
>> assembly removed, the spring lengths were the same.
>
> By "under load" do you mean with the car jacked up and the
> strut extended?

I took three measurements of the coil spring lengths:
1. Car front supported at customary jacking points (the
frame beneath the front doors) for changing a tire (wheels
off, of course)
2. Car front supported beneath lower control arms (wheels
off)
3. Strut assembly fully removed from car and laid on ground,
side by side.

> You need to compare the free length of the spring when
> it's uninstalled from
> the strut assembly to the free length of new springs.

I understand. As I mentioned, having no spring compressor
yet, I haven't done this. I would also have to go after some
new springs... But I see where you're going.

>> Uncompressed, the dr. side control arm bushing is
>> cracked. I
>> think the pass. side one was too. But I didn't take
>> measurements or inspect how they appeared under load, so
>> that seems like a good next step.
>
> A worn bushing might give a ½" or so. I replaced both the
> front and rear
> lower control arm bushings as well as the rear upper
> control arm bushings on
> my Civic about a year ago or so. It made the car drive a
> lot smoother. My
> front lower control arm bushings were also cracked.

Where did you have the bushings removed and then pressed
into place?

Finding a shop that will do this for me is a bit of a hurdle
to get over. I think I can deal with separating the lower
ball joints, once I cave and put the money into the right
tool, per Tegger's site. I separated the ball joints in an
auto shop class once and get the basic idea, as well as some
of the precautions to take. Also I see the warnings in the
archives.

I am still tempted to go down to the one junkyard I know
that has a lot of old Civics and see if I can just find a
couple of front control arms in good repair and use them.
The one, new rear control arm I installed (under great
duress, not having very good tools or knowing much about
bolt busting beyond PB Blaster) had only about 5000 miles on
it IIRC and had a bushing(s) that was (were) much better in
appearance than the old one(s).

> My Civic is at about 243,000 miles

That's encouraging!

The superior ride you're getting is also incentive. This is
definitely something to consider for a summer project.
That's what this is right now: After looking everything
over, feeling it was safe enough, and seeing the height
difference wasn't as bad as I thought, I can live with it. I
was walking into the parking lot the other day and saw this
glaring tilt for the first time to my Civic and felt it was
time to take a look at what was happening in front.

I bought some Armor All today and sprayed some on the upper
ball joint rubber boots, wiping them down. Without thinking
about it, on my next trip out, I swear I felt smoother
steering, especially on turns. I know that doesn't make
sense, unless the Armor All soaked in and around the boot a
bit and drove out some of the crud there.

I'll have another go at it all come Monday or so.

Thanks again.

> and I'm hoping to drive it to at least
> 300,000 or so.

Re: 91 Civic Lower at Dr. Side Front...
 

Elle wrote:
> >
> > A worn bushing might give a ½" or so. I replaced both the
> > front and rear lower control arm bushings as well as the
> > rear upper control arm bushings on my Civic about a year
> > ago or so. It made the car drive a lot smoother. My
> > front lower control arm bushings were also cracked.
>
> Where did you have the bushings removed and then pressed
> into place?
>

I took them to the shop I used to work at and they let me use their
hydraulic press. If you have experience using a press, then it's pretty
straight forward, i.e., press the old bushings out and then press the new
bushings in using appropriate press tools such that you're only pressing on
the thin outer sleeve of the bushing and not on the center while keeping the
arm supported such that you're pressing perpendicular to the arm and not off
at some angle. However, any good machine shop or auto shop with a press
should be able to do them for you. Call around for prices and avoid the
cheapo car repair places.

Eric

Re: 91 Civic Lower at Dr. Side Front...
 

Elle wrote:
> >
> > A worn bushing might give a ½" or so. I replaced both the
> > front and rear lower control arm bushings as well as the
> > rear upper control arm bushings on my Civic about a year
> > ago or so. It made the car drive a lot smoother. My
> > front lower control arm bushings were also cracked.
>
> Where did you have the bushings removed and then pressed
> into place?
>

I took them to the shop I used to work at and they let me use their
hydraulic press. If you have experience using a press, then it's pretty
straight forward, i.e., press the old bushings out and then press the new
bushings in using appropriate press tools such that you're only pressing on
the thin outer sleeve of the bushing and not on the center while keeping the
arm supported such that you're pressing perpendicular to the arm and not off
at some angle. However, any good machine shop or auto shop with a press
should be able to do them for you. Call around for prices and avoid the
cheapo car repair places.

Eric

Re: 91 Civic Lower at Dr. Side Front...
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
Re having old suspension control arm bushings pressed out
and replaced:
> However, any good machine shop or auto shop with a press
> should be able to do them for you. Call around for prices
> and avoid the
> cheapo car repair places.

Sounds good. I'll start making gentle inquiries.

Re: 91 Civic Lower at Dr. Side Front...
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
Re having old suspension control arm bushings pressed out
and replaced:
> However, any good machine shop or auto shop with a press
> should be able to do them for you. Call around for prices
> and avoid the
> cheapo car repair places.

Sounds good. I'll start making gentle inquiries.

Shop Press for Suspension Bushings? [was Re: 91 Civic Lower at Dr. Side Front... ]
 

Would this 12-ton shop press be sufficient for removing old
control arm bushings and pressing new ones in place?
(Assuming I study like mad and secure everything properly.)

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1667

(Describes a Central Hydraulics A-frame shop press.)

I was at the salvage yard today, where some second hand
front lower control arms with pretty good looking bushings
went for $40 each. Hm. Then I started thinking about having
a shop do them, and what a hassle that is, since I'll have
to bike back and forth between the shop to get my Civic's
control arm bushings replaced. And I sure would like to go
at the rear arm bushings sometime...

At Harbor Freight today, picking up my $7 special coil
spring compressor, I noticed the shop presses and though,
'Ya know, for $100, if I could do this all myself... "

I'm googling and it seems a press this size will work. Just
want more exacting experience at this point on this
particular size of press when used for bushings.

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
> Re having old suspension control arm bushings pressed out
> and replaced:
>> However, any good machine shop or auto shop with a press
>> should be able to do them for you. Call around for
>> prices and avoid the
>> cheapo car repair places.
>
> Sounds good. I'll start making gentle inquiries.
>

Shop Press for Suspension Bushings? [was Re: 91 Civic Lower at Dr. Side Front... ]
 

Would this 12-ton shop press be sufficient for removing old
control arm bushings and pressing new ones in place?
(Assuming I study like mad and secure everything properly.)

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1667

(Describes a Central Hydraulics A-frame shop press.)

I was at the salvage yard today, where some second hand
front lower control arms with pretty good looking bushings
went for $40 each. Hm. Then I started thinking about having
a shop do them, and what a hassle that is, since I'll have
to bike back and forth between the shop to get my Civic's
control arm bushings replaced. And I sure would like to go
at the rear arm bushings sometime...

At Harbor Freight today, picking up my $7 special coil
spring compressor, I noticed the shop presses and though,
'Ya know, for $100, if I could do this all myself... "

I'm googling and it seems a press this size will work. Just
want more exacting experience at this point on this
particular size of press when used for bushings.

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
> Re having old suspension control arm bushings pressed out
> and replaced:
>> However, any good machine shop or auto shop with a press
>> should be able to do them for you. Call around for
>> prices and avoid the
>> cheapo car repair places.
>
> Sounds good. I'll start making gentle inquiries.
>

Re: Shop Press for Suspension Bushings? [was Re: 91 Civic Lower at Dr. Side Front... ]
 

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 20:20:34 GMT, "Elle"
<honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:

>Would this 12-ton shop press be sufficient for removing old
>control arm bushings and pressing new ones in place?
>(Assuming I study like mad and secure everything properly.)
>
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1667
>

I would think the press would have plenty of muscle. The trick, I
think, would be accumulating all of the bushings and spacers and
chucks and stuff to fit the various applications. But if you did that
one piece at a time, the cost would probably still be less than having
it done at a shop I may order one too, since I will soon need to
press off and on new rear axle bearings for my Chevrolet van.



Elliot Richmond
Freelance Science Writer and Editor

Re: Shop Press for Suspension Bushings? [was Re: 91 Civic Lower at Dr. Side Front... ]
 

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 20:20:34 GMT, "Elle"
<honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:

>Would this 12-ton shop press be sufficient for removing old
>control arm bushings and pressing new ones in place?
>(Assuming I study like mad and secure everything properly.)
>
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1667
>

I would think the press would have plenty of muscle. The trick, I
think, would be accumulating all of the bushings and spacers and
chucks and stuff to fit the various applications. But if you did that
one piece at a time, the cost would probably still be less than having
it done at a shop I may order one too, since I will soon need to
press off and on new rear axle bearings for my Chevrolet van.



Elliot Richmond
Freelance Science Writer and Editor

Re: Shop Press for Suspension Bushings? [was Re: 91 Civic Lower atDr. Side Front... ]
 

If you do much mechanical work you will quickly wonder how you got by
without a press. I have a slightly larger Harbor Freight press and have
used it for all sorts of things, including driving bushings.

My bench vise really appreciates no longer being tortured into
attempting these jobs as well!

John

Re: Shop Press for Suspension Bushings? [was Re: 91 Civic Lower atDr. Side Front... ]
 

If you do much mechanical work you will quickly wonder how you got by
without a press. I have a slightly larger Harbor Freight press and have
used it for all sorts of things, including driving bushings.

My bench vise really appreciates no longer being tortured into
attempting these jobs as well!

John

Re: Shop Press for Suspension Bushings? [was Re: 91 Civic Lower atDr. Side Front... ]
 

Elle wrote:
> Would this 12-ton shop press be sufficient for removing old
> control arm bushings and pressing new ones in place?
> (Assuming I study like mad and secure everything properly.)
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1667
>
> (Describes a Central Hydraulics A-frame shop press.)

20 tons, $80? sounds like itd work just fine.

Re: Shop Press for Suspension Bushings? [was Re: 91 Civic Lower atDr. Side Front... ]
 

Elle wrote:
> Would this 12-ton shop press be sufficient for removing old
> control arm bushings and pressing new ones in place?
> (Assuming I study like mad and secure everything properly.)
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1667
>
> (Describes a Central Hydraulics A-frame shop press.)

20 tons, $80? sounds like itd work just fine.

Re: Shop Press for Suspension Bushings? [was Re: 91 Civic Lower at Dr. Side Front... ]
 

"SoCalMike" <Mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> 20 tons, $80? sounds like itd work just fine.

12 tons. Plus I have a coupon for 10% off May 1-8 that might
apply, too. :-)

Thanks for the input. Hopefully within a year I'll
photo-document (love that digital camera) the effort. I
think I'm going to switch the front suspension's springs in
the next few days and take measurements. I don't expect a
change; J. Beam has some long posts on the longevity of the
springs in general (from much of his own work on them) and,
with my experience with the rears, I doubt the springs are
messed up. Eric's theory on the bushings is the one towards
which I lean right now.

I've also been studying Tegger's site on ball joint
separating tools and seeing what's available out there. Ebay
doesn't promise much. I am leaning towards the second-third
tools Tegger, with input from others, lists. I found one of
these for around $20 on the net. Or I'll check out
Autozone's rental.

A friend of mine has a 99 Civic on which I took measurements
yesterday. It too is lower on the driver's side, but the
difference is closer to a half-inch. She's only driven the
car out West, very little snow area.