robb

Need some help determining if emision failed due to real problem
and how to fix
*OR* was this a suspect emission tester and i just wait for
different tester ?
what to do ?

I am original owner of '93 civic Si HB 205,450 miles.

I do most all basic maintenence (filters/oil/etc) and repairs
(eg. brake pads/ radiator replace/master cylinder replace/
ignitor replace/ replace distributor, etc ) honda dealer gets the
bigger invasive stuff like timing belt, water pumps, clutch ...

The car has passed emissions by no small margins till this year
and it FAILED miserably ?
*BUT* only on the 25/25 test ?

Only 5,400 highway miles were put on the car from 2008 test to
2009 test.

2009 numbers
===========================
....................25/25 test............50/15
----------------------................---------
HC ppm .....288.....................65
CO %..........9.38 **...............0.20
NOx ppm....345.....................255
RPM............2718..................1971
CO + CO2 %....18.3..............15.1


2008 numbers
===========================
.....................25/25 test...........50/15
-------------------------.............---------
HC ppm .....73........................70
CO %..........0.22.....................0.23
NOx ppm...236......................212
RPM...........2100.....................1925
CO + CO2 % 15.1.................15.1


Ques 1:
Does this test failure look like real (possible) numbers ? that
is, how does it fail 25/25 ***SO *** bad and not the 50/15 ?

Ques 2:
if these are real numbers then what repair am i looking to fix
this ?

Ques 3:
Can the tester muck up the test and get that 25/25 test failure ?
Not that he wanted to muck it up but maybe a little incompetent
because he had these several problems ...

- Could not get the tack sensor in the right place , kept
moving it all around like on top dash , center dash, on mirror ,
under dash, on windshield, on the hood , under the hood ? could
not seem to find a place that gave good tach readings and kept
saying, "your RPM is bad"

- He tried the clip on tach wire but could not get the wire
connected to machine correctly.

- at some point during testing he could not seem to get the gear
shifted so he left it in 1st and ran the car up to about 20
miles per hour in 1st gear the car was running really loud so i
peeked in at the tach which up around 5000-6000 yes that is 5K-6K
and held it there for about 30 seconds waiting for the machine to
do something ?


Anyways, i would appreciate some helpful advice on what to fix or
do please

robb

Steve W.

robb wrote:
> Need some help determining if emision failed due to real problem
> and how to fix
> *OR* was this a suspect emission tester and i just wait for
> different tester ?
> what to do ?
>
> I am original owner of '93 civic Si HB 205,450 miles.
>
> I do most all basic maintenence (filters/oil/etc) and repairs
> (eg. brake pads/ radiator replace/master cylinder replace/
> ignitor replace/ replace distributor, etc ) honda dealer gets the
> bigger invasive stuff like timing belt, water pumps, clutch ...
>
> The car has passed emissions by no small margins till this year
> and it FAILED miserably ?
> *BUT* only on the 25/25 test ?
>
> Only 5,400 highway miles were put on the car from 2008 test to
> 2009 test.
>
> 2009 numbers
> ===========================
> ...................25/25 test............50/15
> ----------------------................---------
> HC ppm .....288.....................65
> CO %..........9.38 **...............0.20
> NOx ppm....345.....................255
> RPM............2718..................1971
> CO + CO2 %....18.3..............15.1
>
>
> 2008 numbers
> ===========================
> ....................25/25 test...........50/15
> -------------------------.............---------
> HC ppm .....73........................70
> CO %..........0.22.....................0.23
> NOx ppm...236......................212
> RPM...........2100.....................1925
> CO + CO2 % 15.1.................15.1
>
>
> Ques 1:
> Does this test failure look like real (possible) numbers ? that
> is, how does it fail 25/25 ***SO *** bad and not the 50/15 ?
>
> Ques 2:
> if these are real numbers then what repair am i looking to fix
> this ?
>
> Ques 3:
> Can the tester muck up the test and get that 25/25 test failure ?
> Not that he wanted to muck it up but maybe a little incompetent
> because he had these several problems ...
>
> - Could not get the tack sensor in the right place , kept
> moving it all around like on top dash , center dash, on mirror ,
> under dash, on windshield, on the hood , under the hood ? could
> not seem to find a place that gave good tach readings and kept
> saying, "your RPM is bad"
>
> - He tried the clip on tach wire but could not get the wire
> connected to machine correctly.
>
> - at some point during testing he could not seem to get the gear
> shifted so he left it in 1st and ran the car up to about 20
> miles per hour in 1st gear the car was running really loud so i
> peeked in at the tach which up around 5000-6000 yes that is 5K-6K
> and held it there for about 30 seconds waiting for the machine to
> do something ?
>
>
> Anyways, i would appreciate some helpful advice on what to fix or
> do please
>
> robb
>

Sounds like you need to get it tested by a different tester. Incorrect
rpm data and not shifting the gears will screw up the test easily.

--
Steve W.

ben91932

The CO is way high regardless of RPM.
Something has forced the FI pig rich.
Further diagnosis is next.
HTH
Ben


>
> 2009 numbers
> ===========================
> ...................25/25 test............50/15
> ----------------------................---------
> HC ppm .....288.....................65
> CO %..........9.38 **...............0.20
> NOx ppm....345.....................255
> RPM............2718..................1971
> CO + CO2 %....18.3..............15.1
>
> 2008 numbers
> ===========================
> ....................25/25 test...........50/15
> -------------------------.............---------
> HC ppm .....73........................70
> CO %..........0.22.....................0.23
> NOx ppm...236......................212
> RPM...........2100.....................1925
> CO + CO2 % 15.1.................15.1
>

robb

"Steve W." <csr684NOT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gvnq28$cn1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> robb wrote:
> > Need some help determining if emision failed due to real
problem
> > and how to fix
> > *OR* was this a suspect emission tester and i just wait for
> > different tester ?
> > what to do ?
[trim]
>
> Sounds like you need to get it tested by a different tester.
Incorrect
> rpm data and not shifting the gears will screw up the test
easily.
> --
> Steve W.
>

Thanks Steve,
for the reply and advice.

robb

robb

"ben91932" <benteaches@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:67d0ac36-9abe-4b16-a248-502bdcc10af8@n4g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> The CO is way high regardless of RPM.
> Something has forced the FI pig rich.
> Further diagnosis is next.
> HTH
> Ben
>
> 2009 numbers
> ===========================
> ...................25/25 test............50/15
> ----------------------................---------
> HC ppm .....288.....................65
> CO %..........9.38 **...............0.20
> NOx ppm....345.....................255
> RPM............2718..................1971
> CO + CO2 %....18.3..............15.1
>
> 2008 numbers
> ===========================
> ....................25/25 test...........50/15
> -------------------------.............---------
> HC ppm .....73........................70
> CO %..........0.22.....................0.23
> NOx ppm...236......................212
> RPM...........2100.....................1925
> CO + CO2 % 15.1.................15.1
>

Thanks Ben,
for the reply and help.

Would you not expect some scaling of failure into the 50/15 test
considering the severity of failure in the 25/25 test ?

After researching some , would you expect a Oxygen Sensor
malfunction or something else ?

Can the original O2 sensor last 18 yrs ? The O2 sensor is the
original :}

Thanks again,
robb

Jim Yanik

"robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in news:i6-
dnX9UvptHpr3XnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@earthlink.com:

>
> "ben91932" <benteaches@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:67d0ac36-9abe-4b16-a248-502bdcc10af8@n4g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>> The CO is way high regardless of RPM.
>> Something has forced the FI pig rich.
>> Further diagnosis is next.
>> HTH
>> Ben
>>
>> 2009 numbers
>> ===========================
>> ...................25/25 test............50/15
>> ----------------------................---------
>> HC ppm .....288.....................65
>> CO %..........9.38 **...............0.20
>> NOx ppm....345.....................255
>> RPM............2718..................1971
>> CO + CO2 %....18.3..............15.1
>>
>> 2008 numbers
>> ===========================
>> ....................25/25 test...........50/15
>> -------------------------.............---------
>> HC ppm .....73........................70
>> CO %..........0.22.....................0.23
>> NOx ppm...236......................212
>> RPM...........2100.....................1925
>> CO + CO2 % 15.1.................15.1
>>
>
> Thanks Ben,
> for the reply and help.
>
> Would you not expect some scaling of failure into the 50/15 test
> considering the severity of failure in the 25/25 test ?
>
> After researching some , would you expect a Oxygen Sensor
> malfunction or something else ?
>
> Can the original O2 sensor last 18 yrs ? The O2 sensor is the
> original :}
>
> Thanks again,
> robb
>
>

O2 sensors are spec'd to last 60-100K miles.
They can get "slow" before that,and affect emissions and mileage even
sooner.

Google is your friend.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

robb

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9C1ACBB5821C2jyanikkuanet@74.209.136.83...
> "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in news:i6-
> dnX9UvptHpr3XnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@earthlink.com:
>
> > "ben91932" <benteaches@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
news:67d0ac36-9abe-4b16-a248-502bdcc10af8@n4g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> >> The CO is way high regardless of RPM.
> >> Something has forced the FI pig rich.
> >> Further diagnosis is next.
> >> Ben
> >>
> >> 2009 numbers
> >> ===========================
> >> ...................25/25 test............50/15
> >> ----------------------................---------
> >> HC ppm .....288.....................65
> >> CO %..........9.38 **...............0.20
> >> 2008 numbers
> >> -------------------------.............---------
> >> HC ppm .....73........................70
> >> CO %..........0.22.....................0.23
> >
> > Thanks Ben,
> > Can the original O2 sensor last 18 yrs ? The O2 sensor is
the
> > original :}
> >
> >
> O2 sensors are spec'd to last 60-100K miles.
> They can get "slow" before that,and affect emissions and
mileage even
> sooner.
>
> Google is your friend.
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik at kua.net
>

Thanks Jim,
for the helpful info.

I say it is original. I think it is the original.
Does honda service ever replace O2 sensor in any of there regular
service intervals ? I do not remeber ever seeing the O2 sensor
being replaced but i did take the car in for whatever the **BIG**
service intervals were ( ? 90K / 120K / 150K ? the numbers escape
my memory)

Oh well, time to start replacing stuff.

So, in other posts i read... Denso seems to make good O2 sensors
? Is that a good brand to look for ?

Thanks for any helpful opinions and advice,

robb

Tegger

"robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
news:LKydnT1nJZ2AubzXnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d@earthlink.co m:


<snip>


>
> I say it is original. I think it is the original.
> Does honda service ever replace O2 sensor in any of there regular
> service intervals ? I do not remeber ever seeing the O2 sensor
> being replaced but i did take the car in for whatever the **BIG**
> service intervals were ( ? 90K / 120K / 150K ? the numbers escape
> my memory)
>
> Oh well, time to start replacing stuff.




Did you even bother to read Steve W's post?

There may be nothing at all wrong with your car, but there was LOTS wrong
with the technician's actions durng the test.




--
Tegger

jim beam

Tegger wrote:
> "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
> news:LKydnT1nJZ2AubzXnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d@earthlink.co m:
>
>
> <snip>
>
>
>> I say it is original. I think it is the original.
>> Does honda service ever replace O2 sensor in any of there regular
>> service intervals ? I do not remeber ever seeing the O2 sensor
>> being replaced but i did take the car in for whatever the **BIG**
>> service intervals were ( ? 90K / 120K / 150K ? the numbers escape
>> my memory)
>>
>> Oh well, time to start replacing stuff.
>
>
>
>
> Did you even bother to read Steve W's post?
>
> There may be nothing at all wrong with your car, but there was LOTS wrong
> with the technician's actions durng the test.
>
>
>
>

i'm not sure i buy that - this guy's story doesn't add up. testing
machines won't accept a test unless the test protocol is followed
closely, and 2718rpm at 25mph is not first gear like the op alleges.
the machine checks for rpm's and won't accept if not in range. and not
only must they be in range, they must be relatively constant. if
they're not constant, the machine extends the test until they are and
held there for the requisite test duration.

bottom line - this is probably a valid test and a simple failure. given
that the op hasn't changed the sensor in 18 years, he probably hasn't
changed plugs or leads either - a much more likely cause of incomplete
combustion and high readings.

robb

"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:8ZWdneEn_a6spLzXnZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Tegger wrote:
> > "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
> > news:LKydnT1nJZ2AubzXnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d@earthlink.co m:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >> I say it is original. I think it is the original.
> >> Does honda service ever replace O2 sensor in any of there
regular
> >> service intervals ? I do not remeber ever seeing the O2
sensor
> >> being replaced but i did take the car in for whatever the
**BIG**
> >> service intervals were ( ? 90K / 120K / 150K ? the numbers
escape
> >> my memory)
> >>
> >> Oh well, time to start replacing stuff.
> >
> > Did you even bother to read Steve W's post?
> >
> > There may be nothing at all wrong with your car, but there
was LOTS wrong
> > with the technician's actions durng the test.
> >
>
> i'm not sure i buy that - this guy's story doesn't add up.
testing
> machines won't accept a test unless the test protocol is
followed
> closely, and 2718rpm at 25mph is not first gear like the op
alleges.
> the machine checks for rpm's and won't accept if not in range.
and not
> only must they be in range, they must be relatively constant.
if
> they're not constant, the machine extends the test until they
are and
> held there for the requisite test duration.
>
> bottom line - this is probably a valid test and a simple
failure. given
> that the op hasn't changed the sensor in 18 years, he probably
hasn't
> changed plugs or leads either - a much more likely cause of
incomplete
> combustion and high readings.
>

Hello OP here ...
While i applaud your deductive reasoning on my story to keep me
honest , the story is a truthful rendition of what occured
durring the emission test.

the only thing i allege is what i saw, which was a big 20
something on the emission monitor and peeking at the tachometer
that was in the car and seeing it hovering around 5-6k or
there abouts for about 30 seconds (while the tester watched the
monitor) and me realizing that for the 25/25 test it seems he
never shifted out of first gear , next he ground the gears again
a bit and managed to get it into to second for the next test.

I was not really paying attention to the testing until i heard
the engine reving really high, i didn't remember that during any
past test and when he slightly ground the gears i became more
watchful and started adding up all the other stuff he did like
move the tach sensor all around the car and the comment about the
bad RPM made me wonder if the tester guy just flubbed my test or
is it reallistic to think that 1 year and 5400 miles later my car
has gone from clean to enviro-mean,

maybe the emmision machine was reading 2700 when he had it reved
up to 5K ? i do not know but someone probably knows there are
alot of experienced and smart people here.

anyways that seemed like alot of useless fill for my questions
which were... can these emission tester guys muck up the test
like that or do i really need to start looking for the problems
and more importantly what to concentrate on ?

I do appreciate the help.

robb

jim beam

robb wrote:
> "jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:8ZWdneEn_a6spLzXnZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> Tegger wrote:
>>> "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
>>> news:LKydnT1nJZ2AubzXnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d@earthlink.co m:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> I say it is original. I think it is the original.
>>>> Does honda service ever replace O2 sensor in any of there
> regular
>>>> service intervals ? I do not remeber ever seeing the O2
> sensor
>>>> being replaced but i did take the car in for whatever the
> **BIG**
>>>> service intervals were ( ? 90K / 120K / 150K ? the numbers
> escape
>>>> my memory)
>>>>
>>>> Oh well, time to start replacing stuff.
>>> Did you even bother to read Steve W's post?
>>>
>>> There may be nothing at all wrong with your car, but there
> was LOTS wrong
>>> with the technician's actions durng the test.
>>>
>> i'm not sure i buy that - this guy's story doesn't add up.
> testing
>> machines won't accept a test unless the test protocol is
> followed
>> closely, and 2718rpm at 25mph is not first gear like the op
> alleges.
>> the machine checks for rpm's and won't accept if not in range.
> and not
>> only must they be in range, they must be relatively constant.
> if
>> they're not constant, the machine extends the test until they
> are and
>> held there for the requisite test duration.
>>
>> bottom line - this is probably a valid test and a simple
> failure. given
>> that the op hasn't changed the sensor in 18 years, he probably
> hasn't
>> changed plugs or leads either - a much more likely cause of
> incomplete
>> combustion and high readings.
>>
>
> Hello OP here ...
> While i applaud your deductive reasoning on my story to keep me
> honest , the story is a truthful rendition of what occured
> durring the emission test.
>
> the only thing i allege is what i saw, which was a big 20
> something on the emission monitor and peeking at the tachometer
> that was in the car and seeing it hovering around 5-6k or
> there abouts for about 30 seconds (while the tester watched the
> monitor) and me realizing that for the 25/25 test it seems he
> never shifted out of first gear , next he ground the gears again
> a bit and managed to get it into to second for the next test.
>
> I was not really paying attention to the testing until i heard
> the engine reving really high, i didn't remember that during any
> past test and when he slightly ground the gears i became more
> watchful and started adding up all the other stuff he did like
> move the tach sensor all around the car and the comment about the
> bad RPM made me wonder if the tester guy just flubbed my test or
> is it reallistic to think that 1 year and 5400 miles later my car
> has gone from clean to enviro-mean,
>
> maybe the emmision machine was reading 2700 when he had it reved
> up to 5K ? i do not know but someone probably knows there are
> alot of experienced and smart people here.
>
> anyways that seemed like alot of useless fill for my questions
> which were... can these emission tester guys muck up the test
> like that or do i really need to start looking for the problems
> and more importantly what to concentrate on ?
>
> I do appreciate the help.
>
> robb
>
>

no, he cannot up the test - the machine will not accept it. you
need to concentrate on fixing the problem, not the blame. based on your
response, that might be something you find hard to do.

robb

"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9C1B605DEBBC2tegger@208.90.168.18...
> "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
> news:LKydnT1nJZ2AubzXnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d@earthlink.co m:
>
> <snip>
> >
> > I say it is original. I think it is the original.
> > Does honda service ever replace O2 sensor in any of there
regular
> > service intervals ? I do not remeber ever seeing the O2
sensor
> > being replaced but i did take the car in for whatever the
**BIG**
> > service intervals were ( ? 90K / 120K / 150K ? the numbers
escape
> > my memory)
> >
> > Oh well, time to start replacing stuff.
>
> Did you even bother to read Steve W's post?
>
> There may be nothing at all wrong with your car, but there was
LOTS wrong
> with the technician's actions durng the test.
> --
> Tegger
>
Hello Tegger,
yes i did read it.
steve said it sounds like i need to find a new tester. Thats what
i thought too but i do not think this was his first day and i do
not remeber testers ever having trouble getting a good tach
reading in the past. They always just plopped that paddle up on
the dash and the test done in about 10 minutes.

Then with (Ben and Jim) i have two strikes against the car and
1/2 strike on my story.

I did not know it was standard practice to replace the O2 sensor
every ~80K ? i know i have never done it.

I can and will test it (as i can) to see if it is suspect but
according to those O2 comments and even some of your own posts
about O2 sensors ... the O2 should probably be replaced ?

Anyways what happens if you get failed twice ? Right now i have
to show proof of work done to get it tested again for free ?
other wise i am out $50.

thanks for all the helpful advice,
robb

jim beam

robb wrote:
> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C1B605DEBBC2tegger@208.90.168.18...
>> "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
>> news:LKydnT1nJZ2AubzXnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d@earthlink.co m:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> I say it is original. I think it is the original.
>>> Does honda service ever replace O2 sensor in any of there
> regular
>>> service intervals ? I do not remeber ever seeing the O2
> sensor
>>> being replaced but i did take the car in for whatever the
> **BIG**
>>> service intervals were ( ? 90K / 120K / 150K ? the numbers
> escape
>>> my memory)
>>>
>>> Oh well, time to start replacing stuff.
>> Did you even bother to read Steve W's post?
>>
>> There may be nothing at all wrong with your car, but there was
> LOTS wrong
>> with the technician's actions durng the test.
>> --
>> Tegger
>>
> Hello Tegger,
> yes i did read it.
> steve said it sounds like i need to find a new tester. Thats what
> i thought too but i do not think this was his first day and i do
> not remeber testers ever having trouble getting a good tach
> reading in the past. They always just plopped that paddle up on
> the dash and the test done in about 10 minutes.
>
> Then with (Ben and Jim) i have two strikes against the car and
> 1/2 strike on my story.
>
> I did not know it was standard practice to replace the O2 sensor
> every ~80K ? i know i have never done it.
>
> I can and will test it (as i can) to see if it is suspect but
> according to those O2 comments and even some of your own posts
> about O2 sensors ... the O2 should probably be replaced ?
>
> Anyways what happens if you get failed twice ? Right now i have
> to show proof of work done to get it tested again for free ?
> other wise i am out $50.
>
> thanks for all the helpful advice,
> robb
>
>
>
>

what is smarter?

1. doing the same thing you did before, and expecting a different
result [retesting]? or

2. fixing the freakin' car, /then/ retesting???

denial will only get you so far dude. it certainly won't save you money
or stop wasting electron on usenet!

Nate Nagel

jim beam wrote:
> robb wrote:
>> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9C1B605DEBBC2tegger@208.90.168.18...
>>> "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
>>> news:LKydnT1nJZ2AubzXnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d@earthlink.co m:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>> I say it is original. I think it is the original.
>>>> Does honda service ever replace O2 sensor in any of there
>> regular
>>>> service intervals ? I do not remeber ever seeing the O2
>> sensor
>>>> being replaced but i did take the car in for whatever the
>> **BIG**
>>>> service intervals were ( ? 90K / 120K / 150K ? the numbers
>> escape
>>>> my memory)
>>>>
>>>> Oh well, time to start replacing stuff.
>>> Did you even bother to read Steve W's post?
>>>
>>> There may be nothing at all wrong with your car, but there was
>> LOTS wrong
>>> with the technician's actions durng the test.
>>> --
>>> Tegger
>>>
>> Hello Tegger,
>> yes i did read it.
>> steve said it sounds like i need to find a new tester. Thats what
>> i thought too but i do not think this was his first day and i do
>> not remeber testers ever having trouble getting a good tach
>> reading in the past. They always just plopped that paddle up on
>> the dash and the test done in about 10 minutes.
>>
>> Then with (Ben and Jim) i have two strikes against the car and
>> 1/2 strike on my story.
>>
>> I did not know it was standard practice to replace the O2 sensor
>> every ~80K ? i know i have never done it.
>>
>> I can and will test it (as i can) to see if it is suspect but
>> according to those O2 comments and even some of your own posts
>> about O2 sensors ... the O2 should probably be replaced ?
>>
>> Anyways what happens if you get failed twice ? Right now i have
>> to show proof of work done to get it tested again for free ?
>> other wise i am out $50.
>>
>> thanks for all the helpful advice,
>> robb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> what is smarter?
>
> 1. doing the same thing you did before, and expecting a different
> result [retesting]? or
>
> 2. fixing the freakin' car, /then/ retesting???
>
> denial will only get you so far dude. it certainly won't save you money
> or stop wasting electron on usenet!
>

I think he has reasonable concerns that the test was not done correctly
and that there may not be a problem at all with the car.

The *correct* answer, instead of shotgunning the car with parts when it
may or may not actually need them, is to take the car to a shop with its
own exhaust gas analyzer, NOT an emissions test station, and find out if
there is actually a problem.

nate

--
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Grumpy AuContraire

Nate Nagel wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>



snip


>>
>> what is smarter?
>>
>> 1. doing the same thing you did before, and expecting a different
>> result [retesting]? or
>>
>> 2. fixing the freakin' car, /then/ retesting???
>>
>> denial will only get you so far dude. it certainly won't save you
>> money or stop wasting electron on usenet!
>>
>
> I think he has reasonable concerns that the test was not done correctly
> and that there may not be a problem at all with the car.
>
> The *correct* answer, instead of shotgunning the car with parts when it
> may or may not actually need them, is to take the car to a shop with its
> own exhaust gas analyzer, NOT an emissions test station, and find out if
> there is actually a problem.
>
> nate


Pay no heed to beam as he resides in his "special" corner of the world
having little to do with the rest of us free thinkers.

I agree that the test may have been botched. Beam's assertion that the
"machine" is infallible is, well, ah... fallible.

BTW, how's JP doing these days?

JT