93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

I recently started getting very low milage in my 1993 Civic EX (1.6 L
SOHC VTEC).

Previously I've seen between 32 and 38 (34 AVG.)

Now I'm getting about 25 MPG (it has steadily declined the last three
tanks).

Things I have checked/replaced:
* Replaced Plugs and gapped them properly (The old ones looked fine)
* Checked throttle body (no build-up)
* Checked PCV valve: When I squeezed the tube going to the PCV, the
idle went up, I guess that means it's open
* Checked EAVC valve: I removed it and examined it, cleaned it and
tested it. It checks out, the intake port was a little clogged and it
was a little oily inside, but it tests fine (opens with a voltage).
* Timing: It's pretty rock solid, though it's hard to get an actual
reading cause the "pointer" or "indicator" is so far away from the
pulley with the marks.
* Haven't done a Compression Test yet
* Fuel injectors: I was grabbing them with the engine running and
could feel the clicking of the valve in only three of them. I removed
the odd one and tested it and it seemed to work fine and fast when
supplied with a few volts.
*The air filter is super clean
*Oil + Filter was replaced recently (1500 miles)
*Performance seems top-notch, as fast as ever.
*Valves: I just adjusted them and they weren't hardly off at all, only
the valves on one cylinder were .001" too tight.

Note: About a thousand miles before the low milage, I jump-started the
car and had noticeable engine shake after that. Recently, I replaced
one of the motor mounts cause it was busted all the way through.
Wierd, but this didn't really help much. It could be just that the new
mount isn't as stiff as the old one was, or there are more busted
mounts.

So, any ideas about the milage?

Thanks in Advance

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

"Danny Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1134174021.790072.138920@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com:

> I recently started getting very low milage in my 1993 Civic EX (1.6 L
> SOHC VTEC).
>
> Previously I've seen between 32 and 38 (34 AVG.)
>
> Now I'm getting about 25 MPG (it has steadily declined the last three
> tanks).
>
> Things I have checked/replaced:
> * Replaced Plugs and gapped them properly (The old ones looked fine)
> * Checked throttle body (no build-up)
> * Checked PCV valve: When I squeezed the tube going to the PCV, the
> idle went up, I guess that means it's open
> * Checked EAVC valve: I removed it and examined it, cleaned it and
> tested it. It checks out, the intake port was a little clogged and it
> was a little oily inside, but it tests fine (opens with a voltage).
> * Timing: It's pretty rock solid, though it's hard to get an actual
> reading cause the "pointer" or "indicator" is so far away from the
> pulley with the marks.
> * Haven't done a Compression Test yet
> * Fuel injectors: I was grabbing them with the engine running and
> could feel the clicking of the valve in only three of them. I removed
> the odd one and tested it and it seemed to work fine and fast when
> supplied with a few volts.
> *The air filter is super clean
> *Oil + Filter was replaced recently (1500 miles)
> *Performance seems top-notch, as fast as ever.
> *Valves: I just adjusted them and they weren't hardly off at all, only
> the valves on one cylinder were .001" too tight.
>
> Note: About a thousand miles before the low milage, I jump-started the
> car and had noticeable engine shake after that. Recently, I replaced
> one of the motor mounts cause it was busted all the way through.
> Wierd, but this didn't really help much. It could be just that the new
> mount isn't as stiff as the old one was, or there are more busted
> mounts.
>
> So, any ideas about the milage?
>
> Thanks in Advance
>
>

How's your catalytic converter/exhaust system? Maybe you're getting some
restriction.Also,cold weather will cause a decrease in mileage.

Check your tire pressures,too.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

Danny Beardsley wrote:

> I recently started getting very low milage in my 1993 Civic EX (1.6 L
> SOHC VTEC).
>
> Previously I've seen between 32 and 38 (34 AVG.)
>
> Now I'm getting about 25 MPG (it has steadily declined the last three
> tanks).
>
> Things I have checked/replaced:
> * Replaced Plugs and gapped them properly (The old ones looked fine)
> * Checked throttle body (no build-up)
> * Checked PCV valve: When I squeezed the tube going to the PCV, the
> idle went up, I guess that means it's open
> * Checked EAVC valve: I removed it and examined it, cleaned it and
> tested it. It checks out, the intake port was a little clogged and it
> was a little oily inside, but it tests fine (opens with a voltage).
> * Timing: It's pretty rock solid, though it's hard to get an actual
> reading cause the "pointer" or "indicator" is so far away from the
> pulley with the marks.
> * Haven't done a Compression Test yet
> * Fuel injectors: I was grabbing them with the engine running and
> could feel the clicking of the valve in only three of them. I removed
> the odd one and tested it and it seemed to work fine and fast when
> supplied with a few volts.
> *The air filter is super clean
> *Oil + Filter was replaced recently (1500 miles)
> *Performance seems top-notch, as fast as ever.
> *Valves: I just adjusted them and they weren't hardly off at all, only
> the valves on one cylinder were .001" too tight.
>
> Note: About a thousand miles before the low milage, I jump-started the
> car and had noticeable engine shake after that. Recently, I replaced
> one of the motor mounts cause it was busted all the way through.
> Wierd, but this didn't really help much. It could be just that the new
> mount isn't as stiff as the old one was, or there are more busted
> mounts.
>
> So, any ideas about the milage?
>
> Thanks in Advance

I could have sworn I answered this for somebody else today. :-)

Anyway, on to the questions.

Is this 25mpg city, highway, or mixed?

Are the new plugs OEM? What about the cap, rotor, wires? How are they?

What are your tire pressures? Are they the right size?

Are you a lead foot driver?

If you are in a part of the world where winter is settling in, that will
decrease your mileage.

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

Danny Beardsley wrote:
> I recently started getting very low milage in my 1993 Civic EX (1.6 L
> SOHC VTEC).
>
> Previously I've seen between 32 and 38 (34 AVG.)
>
> Now I'm getting about 25 MPG (it has steadily declined the last three
> tanks).
>
> Things I have checked/replaced:
> * Replaced Plugs and gapped them properly (The old ones looked fine)
> * Checked throttle body (no build-up)
> * Checked PCV valve: When I squeezed the tube going to the PCV, the
> idle went up, I guess that means it's open
> * Checked EAVC valve: I removed it and examined it, cleaned it and
> tested it. It checks out, the intake port was a little clogged and it
> was a little oily inside, but it tests fine (opens with a voltage).
> * Timing: It's pretty rock solid, though it's hard to get an actual
> reading cause the "pointer" or "indicator" is so far away from the
> pulley with the marks.

ok, please clarify that point: are the timing marks correctly aligned or
not? the pointer & the pulley marks need to line up under the timing
light. if the timing belt's skipped, the "so far away" will be your
problem - and indication of belt skippage. you don't state mileage.
presumably the belt /has/ been replaced at some point. my experience is
that some shops are not practiced at getting belt tension just right.

> * Haven't done a Compression Test yet
> * Fuel injectors: I was grabbing them with the engine running and
> could feel the clicking of the valve in only three of them. I removed
> the odd one and tested it and it seemed to work fine and fast when
> supplied with a few volts.
> *The air filter is super clean
> *Oil + Filter was replaced recently (1500 miles)
> *Performance seems top-notch, as fast as ever.
> *Valves: I just adjusted them and they weren't hardly off at all, only
> the valves on one cylinder were .001" too tight.
>
> Note: About a thousand miles before the low milage, I jump-started the
> car and had noticeable engine shake after that. Recently, I replaced
> one of the motor mounts cause it was busted all the way through.
> Wierd, but this didn't really help much. It could be just that the new
> mount isn't as stiff as the old one was, or there are more busted
> mounts.
>
> So, any ideas about the milage?
>
> Thanks in Advance
>

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

I have not checked the catalytic converter, I'm not sure how to go
about checking it except looking for holes. The sound of the car
hasn't really changed.

It's not cause of winter, I've driven in the cold before and haven't
got milage like this.

Tire pressures are correct. 30 PSI.

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

Mixed

I didn't get the OEM plugs, but I just replaced the plugs today, Old:
NGK's New: Bosch

Cap, rotor, wires, and coil were all replaced 30 or 40K miles ago.

Tires: 30 psi. Yes, they are the right size

No, I'm not a lead foot, The milage changed, my driving habits
haven't.

Winter, yes but it doesn't get that cold here (Central California) and
I've driven in colder weather and still had great milage.

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

I don't know why it is this way... but. The little plastic indicator
on the timing belt cover is 3 or 4 inches away from the edge pulley
having the marks. Because of this, it makes it hard to see if the
marks on the pulley are lined up with the indicator correctly. What I
should do is scratch a line from the indicator toward the center of the
pulley. I haven't yet because it's super tight in there.

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

That's quite a drop. How many miles are on your car?

IMO, you need a complete shotgun approach. You're halfway
there. In order, this is what I'd do:

Check the coolant levels. Purge the cooling system of air.

I'd replace the PCV valve, assuming it's the original one.

Is the fuel filter due for replacement? If so, replace it.

I would be tempted to pull off the ignition wire of the
suspect cylinder (with the suspect fuel injector) and see if
engine power sounds like it goes down, as it should. OTOH,
if you say performance is otherwise fine, then all four
cylinders must be firing.

Consider a new oxygen sensor.
https://www.automedicsupply.com/ has great prices for OEM
oxygen sensors.

Stick with NGK plugs in the future. OEM plugs seem to be the
consensus here.

Are cap, rotor, and wires OEM?

My site reinforces a few of these points:
http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id11.html

Elle
Original owner, 1991 Civic (1.5 liter, manual transmission),
172k miles, 40+ mpg most of the year; about 39 mpg this time
of year.

"Danny Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote
> I recently started getting very low milage in my 1993
Civic EX (1.6 L
> SOHC VTEC).
>
> Previously I've seen between 32 and 38 (34 AVG.)
>
> Now I'm getting about 25 MPG (it has steadily declined the
last three
> tanks).
>
> Things I have checked/replaced:
> * Replaced Plugs and gapped them properly (The old ones
looked fine)
> * Checked throttle body (no build-up)
> * Checked PCV valve: When I squeezed the tube going to the
PCV, the
> idle went up, I guess that means it's open
> * Checked EAVC valve: I removed it and examined it,
cleaned it and
> tested it. It checks out, the intake port was a little
clogged and it
> was a little oily inside, but it tests fine (opens with a
voltage).
> * Timing: It's pretty rock solid, though it's hard to get
an actual
> reading cause the "pointer" or "indicator" is so far away
from the
> pulley with the marks.
> * Haven't done a Compression Test yet
> * Fuel injectors: I was grabbing them with the engine
running and
> could feel the clicking of the valve in only three of
them. I removed
> the odd one and tested it and it seemed to work fine and
fast when
> supplied with a few volts.
> *The air filter is super clean
> *Oil + Filter was replaced recently (1500 miles)
> *Performance seems top-notch, as fast as ever.
> *Valves: I just adjusted them and they weren't hardly off
at all, only
> the valves on one cylinder were .001" too tight.
>
> Note: About a thousand miles before the low milage, I
jump-started the
> car and had noticeable engine shake after that. Recently,
I replaced
> one of the motor mounts cause it was busted all the way
through.
> Wierd, but this didn't really help much. It could be just
that the new
> mount isn't as stiff as the old one was, or there are more
busted
> mounts.
>
> So, any ideas about the milage?
>
> Thanks in Advance
>

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

"Danny Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134174021.790072.138920@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> I recently started getting very low milage in my 1993 Civic EX (1.6 L
> SOHC VTEC).
>
Low mileage => more gas or more work by engine for a given baseline hmm ...

I presume you have ruled out obvious driving changes such as
altitude/distance/less hwy/more city/lead footing/avg speed etc...

is that automatic tranny ?

- have you noticed an increase in RPM per given cruising speed ? that is at
60 mph you used to be at say 2500 rpm now you are at 3000 rpm ?

- any chance your transmission is the problem maybe you lost 4th/5th gear ??

- if manual are you forgetting to shift into 5th ;)

- since a vtec any chance your engine stuck in vtec high rpm performance
mode ?
or something wrong with vtec system ?

- has the CHECK engine light come on or blinked recently ?
considering VTEC function is controled electronically (ECM function)
could be VTEC malfunction
> you could try running self diagnostic and look for system error codes
?
> maybe try reseting the ECM

>
> Previously I've seen between 32 and 38 (34 AVG.)
>

i have '93 Civic Si same engine and have never really seen (> 31mpg)

maybe the VTEC was broken before and now it works ?

>
> Now I'm getting about 25 MPG (it has steadily declined the last three
> tanks).
>

I usually get about 28-30 , maybe your foot is heavier now :)

>
> Things I have checked/replaced:
> * Replaced Plugs and gapped them properly (The old ones looked fine)
> * Checked throttle body (no build-up)
> * Checked PCV valve: When I squeezed the tube going to the PCV, the
> idle went up, I guess that means it's open
> * Checked EAVC valve: I removed it and examined it, cleaned it and
> tested it. It checks out, the intake port was a little clogged and it
> was a little oily inside, but it tests fine (opens with a voltage).
> * Timing: It's pretty rock solid, though it's hard to get an actual
> reading cause the "pointer" or "indicator" is so far away from the
> pulley with the marks.
> * Haven't done a Compression Test yet
> * Fuel injectors: I was grabbing them with the engine running and
> could feel the clicking of the valve in only three of them. I removed
> the odd one and tested it and it seemed to work fine and fast when
> supplied with a few volts.
> *The air filter is super clean
> *Oil + Filter was replaced recently (1500 miles)
>
using different grade oil (factory recommended) or any new additives ?
>
> *Performance seems top-notch, as fast as ever.
>
ah ha ! thought i had an idea
>
> *Valves: I just adjusted them and they weren't hardly off at all, only
> the valves on one cylinder were .001" too tight.
>
> Note: About a thousand miles before the low milage, I jump-started the
> car and had noticeable engine shake after that. Recently, I replaced
> one of the motor mounts cause it was busted all the way through.
> Wierd, but this didn't really help much. It could be just that the new
> mount isn't as stiff as the old one was, or there are more busted
> mounts.
>
> So, any ideas about the milage?
>
> Thanks in Advance
>

HTH

most of this was out of Factory Service Manual, a very good book if you
like to work on the honda i do not know how chilton/hayes etc compare but
the Honda Service manual seems very good

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

Danny Beardsley wrote:
> I recently started getting very low milage in my 1993 Civic EX (1.6 L
> SOHC VTEC).
>
> Previously I've seen between 32 and 38 (34 AVG.)
>
> Now I'm getting about 25 MPG (it has steadily declined the last three
> tanks).
>
> Things I have checked/replaced:
> * Replaced Plugs and gapped them properly (The old ones looked fine)
> * Checked throttle body (no build-up)
> * Checked PCV valve: When I squeezed the tube going to the PCV, the
> idle went up, I guess that means it's open
> * Checked EAVC valve: I removed it and examined it, cleaned it and
> tested it. It checks out, the intake port was a little clogged and it
> was a little oily inside, but it tests fine (opens with a voltage).
> * Timing: It's pretty rock solid, though it's hard to get an actual
> reading cause the "pointer" or "indicator" is so far away from the
> pulley with the marks.
> * Haven't done a Compression Test yet
> * Fuel injectors: I was grabbing them with the engine running and
> could feel the clicking of the valve in only three of them. I removed
> the odd one and tested it and it seemed to work fine and fast when
> supplied with a few volts.
> *The air filter is super clean
> *Oil + Filter was replaced recently (1500 miles)
> *Performance seems top-notch, as fast as ever.
> *Valves: I just adjusted them and they weren't hardly off at all, only
> the valves on one cylinder were .001" too tight.
>
> Note: About a thousand miles before the low milage, I jump-started the
> car and had noticeable engine shake after that. Recently, I replaced
> one of the motor mounts cause it was busted all the way through.
> Wierd, but this didn't really help much. It could be just that the new
> mount isn't as stiff as the old one was, or there are more busted
> mounts.
>
> So, any ideas about the milage?
>
> Thanks in Advance
>
Doesn't matter how you drive it. You should still be getting better mpg's.

I second elle's opinion about the oxy sensor(s). The engine computer no
longer gets realistic data from the oxy sensor and is running in default
mode.

dan

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

"Danny Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134183381.596958.258230@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>I have not checked the catalytic converter, I'm not sure how to go
> about checking it except looking for holes. The sound of the car
> hasn't really changed.
>
> It's not cause of winter, I've driven in the cold before and haven't
> got milage like this.
>
> Tire pressures are correct. 30 PSI.
>
Restricted cats show up mostly as the last bit of throttle not doing
anything, or even making the engine stumble and surge at full throttle. The
Haynes manual for the '90 to '93 Accord has a slick diagnostic for
restricted exhaust systems using a manifold vacuum guage. It has you connect
the guage and note the idle manifold reading. Then open the throttle so the
engine is revving about 2000 rpm for a few seconds, and watch the guage as
you release the throttle. If the reading returns to the original idle
pressure within 2 seconds, the exhaust system is unrestricted. If the
reading hovers near the 2000 rpm reading before dropping or if it slowly
returns to normal the exhaust is restricted... could be the muffler or cat.

Mike

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

I'd add an OEM thermostat to the list....

Mike

"Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Sgsmf.2273$Dd2.1287@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> That's quite a drop. How many miles are on your car?
>
> IMO, you need a complete shotgun approach. You're halfway
> there. In order, this is what I'd do:
>
> Check the coolant levels. Purge the cooling system of air.
>
> I'd replace the PCV valve, assuming it's the original one.
>
> Is the fuel filter due for replacement? If so, replace it.
>
> I would be tempted to pull off the ignition wire of the
> suspect cylinder (with the suspect fuel injector) and see if
> engine power sounds like it goes down, as it should. OTOH,
> if you say performance is otherwise fine, then all four
> cylinders must be firing.
>
> Consider a new oxygen sensor.
> https://www.automedicsupply.com/ has great prices for OEM
> oxygen sensors.
>
> Stick with NGK plugs in the future. OEM plugs seem to be the
> consensus here.
>
> Are cap, rotor, and wires OEM?
>
> My site reinforces a few of these points:
> http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id11.html
>
> Elle
> Original owner, 1991 Civic (1.5 liter, manual transmission),
> 172k miles, 40+ mpg most of the year; about 39 mpg this time
> of year.
>
> "Danny Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote
>> I recently started getting very low milage in my 1993
> Civic EX (1.6 L
>> SOHC VTEC).
>>
>> Previously I've seen between 32 and 38 (34 AVG.)
>>
>> Now I'm getting about 25 MPG (it has steadily declined the
> last three
>> tanks).
>>
>> Things I have checked/replaced:
>> * Replaced Plugs and gapped them properly (The old ones
> looked fine)
>> * Checked throttle body (no build-up)
>> * Checked PCV valve: When I squeezed the tube going to the
> PCV, the
>> idle went up, I guess that means it's open
>> * Checked EAVC valve: I removed it and examined it,
> cleaned it and
>> tested it. It checks out, the intake port was a little
> clogged and it
>> was a little oily inside, but it tests fine (opens with a
> voltage).
>> * Timing: It's pretty rock solid, though it's hard to get
> an actual
>> reading cause the "pointer" or "indicator" is so far away
> from the
>> pulley with the marks.
>> * Haven't done a Compression Test yet
>> * Fuel injectors: I was grabbing them with the engine
> running and
>> could feel the clicking of the valve in only three of
> them. I removed
>> the odd one and tested it and it seemed to work fine and
> fast when
>> supplied with a few volts.
>> *The air filter is super clean
>> *Oil + Filter was replaced recently (1500 miles)
>> *Performance seems top-notch, as fast as ever.
>> *Valves: I just adjusted them and they weren't hardly off
> at all, only
>> the valves on one cylinder were .001" too tight.
>>
>> Note: About a thousand miles before the low milage, I
> jump-started the
>> car and had noticeable engine shake after that. Recently,
> I replaced
>> one of the motor mounts cause it was busted all the way
> through.
>> Wierd, but this didn't really help much. It could be just
> that the new
>> mount isn't as stiff as the old one was, or there are more
> busted
>> mounts.
>>
>> So, any ideas about the milage?
>>
>> Thanks in Advance
>>
>
>

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

Danny Beardsley wrote:
> * Haven't done a Compression Test yet

> So, any ideas

id do a compression test and replace the O2 sensor if its the original
one. its due, and directly effects emissions. if its bad, the engine
could be running rich. is the tailpipe sooty? were the plugs black?
grey? tan?

a small factor could be tire pressure. another factor could be brakes
dragging. jack up each wheel and see if they spin freely.

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

dan wrote:
> Doesn't matter how you drive it. You should still be getting better mpg's.
>
> I second elle's opinion about the oxy sensor(s). The engine computer no
> longer gets realistic data from the oxy sensor and is running in default
> mode.

id third that. its pre OBD2, so it isnt going to throw a code. if you
have 2 sensors, id replace the one *before* the catalytic converter.

on my 98, it went and threw a code. it also ran like crap/stalled at idle.

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

200K miles.

Coolant is fine, new thermostat, the engine runs at the appropriate
temp.

I'll replace the PCV because they are cheap, but it seems to work
correctly.

I'm sure the fuel filter could use replacement, but I highly doubt this
is the problem.

I've done the test on the suspect cylinder and it has the same affect
the rest of the cylinders have when I remove the spark wire or fuel
injector wire.

Oxy sensor sounds possible.. I'll see if there are any testing
procedures in the factory manual.

The PO replaced the ignition stuff, I'll have to check the reciepts.