Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns972A69A12C3CFjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. .
> Thanks much for the URL.
> I looked,and they did not list the 94 Integra GSR motor,just the RS,LS,SE
> models. I suspect the O2 sensor would be the same,though.
> Also,quite a big price difference between the OEM sensors and the
> universal.I guess you would have to "adapt" the wiring on the uni
> sensor.(no connector match)
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> kua.net
In my experience, universals come with crimp splices to re-use the connector
of the OEM.

Mike

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

| > the best thing to do is put in a new one and be done with it.
Then why not buy new car & sell off old car ? I heard [i] japs export
all their cars >5yr old, in whole or as components, to less developed
countries with lower labour cost [ii] in Japan, new cars are cheap &
repair costs high. Doesn't USA have the same situation ?

| will a 3rd party sensor suffice?
only if it has the same capacitance value ( usually in µH i.e. micro
Henry ) as the OEM part, so your ECU will not detect any difference

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

"TE Cheah" <no@spam.biz> wrote in news:439de9e6_2@news.tm.net.my:

>| > the best thing to do is put in a new one and be done with it.
> Then why not buy new car & sell off old car ? I heard [i] japs export
> all their cars >5yr old, in whole or as components, to less developed
> countries with lower labour cost [ii] in Japan, new cars are cheap &
> repair costs high. Doesn't USA have the same situation ?
>
>| will a 3rd party sensor suffice?
> only if it has the same capacitance value ( usually in µH i.e. micro
> Henry ) as the OEM part, so your ECU will not detect any difference
>
>
>

UH,microhenry is an INDUCTANCE measurement,capacitance is in microfarads,or
picofarads.

the O2 sensor might be rated in millivolt output (per oxygen unit).

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns972ACA7CE4CC3jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84.. .
> "TE Cheah" <no@spam.biz> wrote in news:439de9e6_2@news.tm.net.my:
>
>>| > the best thing to do is put in a new one and be done with it.
>> Then why not buy new car & sell off old car ? I heard [i] japs export
>> all their cars >5yr old, in whole or as components, to less developed
>> countries with lower labour cost [ii] in Japan, new cars are cheap &
>> repair costs high. Doesn't USA have the same situation ?
>>
>>| will a 3rd party sensor suffice?
>> only if it has the same capacitance value ( usually in µH i.e. micro
>> Henry ) as the OEM part, so your ECU will not detect any difference
>>
>>
>>
>
> UH,microhenry is an INDUCTANCE measurement,capacitance is in
> microfarads,or
> picofarads.
>
> the O2 sensor might be rated in millivolt output (per oxygen unit).
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> kua.net

Right about the units, and the output is rather a moot point. The
capacitance is immaterial, since it is used as a DC device. All use the same
chemistry and are as very nearly identical, with the exception of the heater
characteristics. Even at that the heaters are all 12V DC.

The essential characteristics (as I understand them):
*open circuit when cold, they are biased to 0.45 VDC to signal an
inoperative condition
*once they reach something like 450 degrees, they become conductive. If the
exhaust has enough CO compared to the outside air, the device becomes a fuel
cell and the output rises to approx 0.9 VDC. If the exhaust is lean, the
output drops near zero (about 0.1 V is the figure usually given).

If the mixture is close to correct initially, the ECU drives the mixture
back and forth across the transition point as rapidly as the feedback
allows - thus the need for rapid response. Seven transitions per second is
considered good, but I don't have a good handle on how slow is really
considered bad. Maybe four... three?

Mike

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

Top Notch Shipping. Ordered itSunday night, recieved it Tuesday
morning.

Anyway, it looks exactly like the coil that was in there already, it
measures in spec (resistances of the coil), and has worked fine now
that I've put it all back together.

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

Well.. I seem to have found the problem.

It was, as many have suspected, an old Oxygen Sensor. I was getting
about 25ish MPG, and then I replaced the O2 sensor and now I have gone
about 150 miles with the needle still above the 3/4 tank mark. I'll
let you know the actual mileage when I finish the tank.

Thanks to everyone.

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

"Danny Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1136494367.443119.205900@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
> Well.. I seem to have found the problem.
>
> It was, as many have suspected, an old Oxygen Sensor. I was getting
> about 25ish MPG, and then I replaced the O2 sensor and now I have gone
> about 150 miles with the needle still above the 3/4 tank mark. I'll
> let you know the actual mileage when I finish the tank.
>
> Thanks to everyone.
>
Especially thanks to Elle, who has been championing the O2 sensor issue for
a while now. I'm coming to believe there are a lot of cars that are
suffering degraded O2 sensor performance that haven't degraded enough to set
the "check engine" light. My daughter's '93 Accord with 220K miles is a
prime example. It doesn't make sense to assume a sensor that old is still
working well. I hope to replace that one this spring - it's just too chilly
now.

Mike

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Danny Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1136494367.443119.205900@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
>> Well.. I seem to have found the problem.
>>
>> It was, as many have suspected, an old Oxygen Sensor. I was getting
>> about 25ish MPG, and then I replaced the O2 sensor and now I have gone
>> about 150 miles with the needle still above the 3/4 tank mark. I'll
>> let you know the actual mileage when I finish the tank.
>>
>> Thanks to everyone.
>>
> Especially thanks to Elle, who has been championing the O2 sensor issue for
> a while now. I'm coming to believe there are a lot of cars that are
> suffering degraded O2 sensor performance that haven't degraded enough to set
> the "check engine" light. My daughter's '93 Accord with 220K miles is a
> prime example. It doesn't make sense to assume a sensor that old is still
> working well. I hope to replace that one this spring - it's just too chilly
> now.

cars older than 1996 when OBD2 went into effect might *never* trigger
the check engine light. i know my moms 1993 eagle summit never did.

im sure someone here with more knowledge would know whether itll even
blink a code if/when checked.

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
> "Danny Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote
> > Well.. I seem to have found the problem.
> >
> > It was, as many have suspected, an old Oxygen Sensor. I
was getting
> > about 25ish MPG, and then I replaced the O2 sensor and
now I have gone
> > about 150 miles with the needle still above the 3/4 tank
mark. I'll
> > let you know the actual mileage when I finish the tank.
> >
> > Thanks to everyone.
> >
> Especially thanks to Elle, who has been championing the O2
sensor issue for
> a while now.

Yeah but I may have messed him over by casually mentioning
my temptation "to pull off the ignition wire of the suspect
cylinder (with the suspect fuel injector) and see if engine
power sounds like it goes down." Shoulda been more complete;
told him to follow a manual or Tegger's site on this point
(which I believe mentions your experience on this, Mike);
warned him about cranking the engine with any wire
disconnected. It may very well have cost him the coil as
well as time lost.

Gotta come clean, so maybe, with enough repetition in the
archives someone else won't have this happen.

Sorry Danny.

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:suudneaCUvIFbiDeRVn-pg@sedona.net...
> "Danny Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1136494367.443119.205900@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
> > Well.. I seem to have found the problem.
> >
> > It was, as many have suspected, an old Oxygen Sensor. I was getting
> > about 25ish MPG, and then I replaced the O2 sensor and now I have gone
> > about 150 miles with the needle still above the 3/4 tank mark. I'll
> > let you know the actual mileage when I finish the tank.
> >
> > Thanks to everyone.
> >
> Especially thanks to Elle, who has been championing the O2 sensor issue
for
> a while now. I'm coming to believe there are a lot of cars that are
> suffering degraded O2 sensor performance that haven't degraded enough to
set
> the "check engine" light. My daughter's '93 Accord with 220K miles is a
> prime example. It doesn't make sense to assume a sensor that old is still
> working well. I hope to replace that one this spring - it's just too
chilly
> now.
>
> Mike
>

you have convinced me to change mine as well (probably i'll check it first
then change)
as i am sporting a '93 civic si @ 195k with original sensor

btw is the accord having any oil trouble ? i am loosing about 1/2 qt
between oil changes ?

was ther a final consensus on where to get good quality O2 sensors ?

robb

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

"Rob B" <RobB@where.on.net> wrote
Re oxygen sensors--
> you have convinced me to change mine as well (probably
i'll check it first
> then change)
> as i am sporting a '93 civic si @ 195k with original
sensor
>
> btw is the accord having any oil trouble ? i am loosing
about 1/2 qt
> between oil changes ?

How much times is that in miles and months?

Doesn't sound too serious, but I'd still be checking for
leakage around the valve cover; under the distributor; and
into the spark plug tubes. How old's the valve cover gasket
and the several other seals in the valve cover (spark plug
tubes, oil filler cap, rubbery washers for the hold-down
bolts)? Ever had the distributor O-ring seal (IIRC)
replaced?

I did all of these not long ago, and my 173k mile, 1991
Civic's oil consumption seems way down, from about 1/2 quart
between oil changes. Plus the exterior of the engine and the
spark plug tubes are cleaner. :-)

> was ther a final consensus on where to get good quality O2
sensors ?

In 2004 for my 1991 Civic, I used
https://www.automedicsupply.com/ for an OEM oxygen sensor at
a significantly better price than the usual online OEM parts
sites. Good service. The sensor seems fine--still getting 40
mpg most of the year on my 1.5L engine, manual tranny. So I
have been recommending this company here when the subject
comes up.

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Nvwvf.5621$M%4.204@newsread3.news.atl.earthli nk.net...
> "Rob B" <RobB@where.on.net> wrote
> Re oxygen sensors--
> > you have convinced me to change mine as well (probably
> i'll check it first
> > then change)
> > as i am sporting a '93 civic si @ 195k with original
> sensor
> >
> > btw is the accord having any oil trouble ? i am loosing
> about 1/2 qt
> > between oil changes ?
>
> How much times is that in miles and months?
>

around 4500 mile oil changes, usually quite charcoal'd by then

takes about 10 months, it doesn't get the miles like it used to, recently
went from 15k yr to about 5k yr

>
> Doesn't sound too serious, but I'd still be checking for
> leakage around the valve cover; under the distributor; and
> into the spark plug tubes. How old's the valve cover gasket
> and the several other seals in the valve cover (spark plug
> tubes, oil filler cap, rubbery washers for the hold-down
> bolts)? Ever had the distributor O-ring seal (IIRC)
> replaced?
>

well i already had answered his in my head as (no leak) but i checked anyway
and there was a freek'n leak coming somewhere from vicinty of valve cover
and distributor base .... I can not believe i missed this on last oil
change, it has a fine film oil all over that side if engine, wililnvestigate
further

the distributor was replaced about 3 yrs ago so something has gone wrong

>
> I did all of these not long ago, and my 173k mile, 1991
> Civic's oil consumption seems way down, from about 1/2 quart
> between oil changes. Plus the exterior of the engine and the
> spark plug tubes are cleaner. :-)
>

I'll check those as well

>
> > was ther a final consensus on where to get good quality O2
> sensors ?
>
> In 2004 for my 1991 Civic, I used
> https://www.automedicsupply.com/ for an OEM oxygen sensor at
> a significantly better price than the usual online OEM parts
> sites. Good service. The sensor seems fine--still getting 40
> mpg most of the year on my 1.5L engine, manual tranny. So I
> have been recommending this company here when the subject
> comes up.
>

just looked there, i will compare with local foreign auto parts shop for
sake of curiousity

thanks for info
robb

Re: 93 Honda Civic Mileage gone bad
 

"Rob B" <RobB@where.on.net> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote

> > > btw is the accord having any oil trouble ? i am
loosing
> > about 1/2 qt
> > > between oil changes ?
> >
> > How much times is that in miles and months?
> >
>
> around 4500 mile oil changes, usually quite charcoal'd by
then
>
> takes about 10 months, it doesn't get the miles like it
used to, recently
> went from 15k yr to about 5k yr

For 10 months, that sounds like a leaky gasket somewhere, as
I listed earlier.

My manual says to change the (non-synth) oil every 7500
miles or 6 months. Sometimes I hit the 6-month limit first.
I'd say half a quart was what I was going through over that
time--before I replaced certain gaskets.

I assume you're comfortable with the 10 months. If not,
consider 6 months, which I think is what your manual also
says.

> > Doesn't sound too serious, but I'd still be checking for
> > leakage around the valve cover; under the distributor;
and
> > into the spark plug tubes. How old's the valve cover
gasket
> > and the several other seals in the valve cover (spark
plug
> > tubes, oil filler cap, rubbery washers for the hold-down
> > bolts)? Ever had the distributor O-ring seal (IIRC)
> > replaced?
> >
>
> well i already had answered his in my head as (no leak)
but i checked anyway
> and there was a freek'n leak coming somewhere from
vicinty of valve cover
> and distributor base .... I can not believe i missed this
on last oil
> change, it has a fine film oil all over that side if
engine, wililnvestigate
> further
>
> the distributor was replaced about 3 yrs ago so something
has gone wrong

My distributor housing was replaced about 2.75 years ago,
and I think I'm seeing a little oil leakage down beneath the
distributor. I cleaned up there (for the first time) a month
ago, then checked again recently. I will probably replace
the distributor O-ring within the next six months. That's
not a hard job.