w_tom

I know those discount mechanics. One Honda had valves
adjusted so badly to be loosened by more than 12 times (more
than one full turn) what valve life would be in the entire car
life. Engine made a terrible racket after adjustment and yet
that discount mechanic (and his supervisor) did not even hear
it. They were into costs; not value.

Heater core control wire pulled off and not properly
installed so that heater output constantly even when air
conditioner was on. Disc brake rotor resurfaced improperly so
that vibration damaged wheel bearings. Or bearing was
defective and discount mechanic never bothered to check -
therefore resurfacing disc rotor wrong. Either way, problem
directly traceable to man who costs less because he is not
good enough. Problem that cost that owner $hundreds more even
after returning to the discount mechanic and demanding those
discount brakes be replaced with Honda brake pads - for free.
More than three trips because job was first done discount.

Even dust cover (so that disc caliber slides clean and easy)
never reconnected so that caliber seized due to brake dust. I
found that major problem. Muffler replaced with a Midas brand
that failed within 20 to 40% of a normal muffler life. Timing
done improperly (discount mechanic did not know about a
required jumper - so even gas mileage was significantly
lower). Readjusting timing cost more money.

You don't save money by being a 'bean counter'. Such
mentality is why GM cars cost more to build than Mercedes -
comparatively equipped. GM buys on price - not value - which
is why their costs are higher. If you don't like the car,
then go to those discount mechanics.

Talking to co-workers is only good if the co-worker has
technical knowledge. Does he do his own service? And even
after that co-worker recommendation, the service man must
still pass muster. Too many males don't know beans about cars
- only recommend the man who talks pretty - what some call
'acting cool'.

Sit in dealer; listening to how they talk to women. The bad
service rep will outrightly lie about technicals because she
is a woman and therefore must be dumb. Yes, I saw one Honda
dealer blame the woman because mechanic did not put oil filter
on correctly. Even the parts dept guy there considered retail
part sales a nuisance. Co-worker recommendations are only
good enough to begin a search. Many males don't learn an
engineering mentality - the need for irrefutable technical
facts - because they don't do some work themselves. Instead,
many males can only judge based upon personal chemistry.

Why do I use the dealer? Because therefore service even
solves problems before they happen. Less hands (and smarter
hands) inside the car means less failures. You are talking
too much like a GM mentality - who therefore thinks numerous
service visits are necessary. I have seen it too often
because I never need all those return visits. I learned why
dealer mechanics can be so important.

BTW, I also have another independent mechanic because he is
local. He costs just as much. He does the little things like
inspection. He has demonstrated great knowledge which is why
his higher prices actually cost me less.

Another 'save money' technique. Many don't buy their wiper
blades from the dealer. Therefore inferior rubber in discount
Autoworld blades require replacement every three months. Pay
a dollar or two more for Honda blades and get more than 12
months- virtually no streaking. Pay a little more and get
more than 4 times the wiper life. Therefore again, save big
time. Real world: Trico, etc discount wiper blades are for
those with a GM mentality who foolishly wish they were saving
money.

Honda owners are richer because they don't cost control -
and therefore spend less money on maintenance and other
things. That Autoworld service man who read your Pxxx code
should have all but been yelling in your ear, "Run now if you
want to save money!"

I am not an auto mechanic. Just that those discount
mechanics are too often so bad that even I had to locate and
fix their bad workmanship. Expensive Honda dealer mechanics
often mean you spend less money - which is why you bought the
Honda in the first place.

Example: dust in a valve (a small hole in plastic) that
slowly opens EGR valve. Explained the problem and Pxxx code
to service man. He and his mechanic look at each other and
immediately cite that plastic valve. A discount mechanics
would have uselessly replaced a $70+ EGR valve (plus labor)
because that is what code said. A smart mechanic immediately
knew it was that $4 plastic valve. Immediately obvious these
guys knew their stuff - which is why they cost more per hour
and save me money.

"T. Nelson" wrote:
> The best way to find a great mechanic is to talk to your co-workers
> and friends. At least one or more of them will tell you about a
> mechanic that is great. The Honda dealership has excellent
> mechanincs but you would have to pay much more to them than you
> would pay to local mechanics which is why lots of people don't take
> their cars to Honda dealerships for service unless they have newer
> cars still under warranty.
>
> Of course, the rich people will go to the Honda dealership but most
> of us are not part of that group--especially me.

w_tom

I know those discount mechanics. One Honda had valves
adjusted so badly to be loosened by more than 12 times (more
than one full turn) what valve life would be in the entire car
life. Engine made a terrible racket after adjustment and yet
that discount mechanic (and his supervisor) did not even hear
it. They were into costs; not value.

Heater core control wire pulled off and not properly
installed so that heater output constantly even when air
conditioner was on. Disc brake rotor resurfaced improperly so
that vibration damaged wheel bearings. Or bearing was
defective and discount mechanic never bothered to check -
therefore resurfacing disc rotor wrong. Either way, problem
directly traceable to man who costs less because he is not
good enough. Problem that cost that owner $hundreds more even
after returning to the discount mechanic and demanding those
discount brakes be replaced with Honda brake pads - for free.
More than three trips because job was first done discount.

Even dust cover (so that disc caliber slides clean and easy)
never reconnected so that caliber seized due to brake dust. I
found that major problem. Muffler replaced with a Midas brand
that failed within 20 to 40% of a normal muffler life. Timing
done improperly (discount mechanic did not know about a
required jumper - so even gas mileage was significantly
lower). Readjusting timing cost more money.

You don't save money by being a 'bean counter'. Such
mentality is why GM cars cost more to build than Mercedes -
comparatively equipped. GM buys on price - not value - which
is why their costs are higher. If you don't like the car,
then go to those discount mechanics.

Talking to co-workers is only good if the co-worker has
technical knowledge. Does he do his own service? And even
after that co-worker recommendation, the service man must
still pass muster. Too many males don't know beans about cars
- only recommend the man who talks pretty - what some call
'acting cool'.

Sit in dealer; listening to how they talk to women. The bad
service rep will outrightly lie about technicals because she
is a woman and therefore must be dumb. Yes, I saw one Honda
dealer blame the woman because mechanic did not put oil filter
on correctly. Even the parts dept guy there considered retail
part sales a nuisance. Co-worker recommendations are only
good enough to begin a search. Many males don't learn an
engineering mentality - the need for irrefutable technical
facts - because they don't do some work themselves. Instead,
many males can only judge based upon personal chemistry.

Why do I use the dealer? Because therefore service even
solves problems before they happen. Less hands (and smarter
hands) inside the car means less failures. You are talking
too much like a GM mentality - who therefore thinks numerous
service visits are necessary. I have seen it too often
because I never need all those return visits. I learned why
dealer mechanics can be so important.

BTW, I also have another independent mechanic because he is
local. He costs just as much. He does the little things like
inspection. He has demonstrated great knowledge which is why
his higher prices actually cost me less.

Another 'save money' technique. Many don't buy their wiper
blades from the dealer. Therefore inferior rubber in discount
Autoworld blades require replacement every three months. Pay
a dollar or two more for Honda blades and get more than 12
months- virtually no streaking. Pay a little more and get
more than 4 times the wiper life. Therefore again, save big
time. Real world: Trico, etc discount wiper blades are for
those with a GM mentality who foolishly wish they were saving
money.

Honda owners are richer because they don't cost control -
and therefore spend less money on maintenance and other
things. That Autoworld service man who read your Pxxx code
should have all but been yelling in your ear, "Run now if you
want to save money!"

I am not an auto mechanic. Just that those discount
mechanics are too often so bad that even I had to locate and
fix their bad workmanship. Expensive Honda dealer mechanics
often mean you spend less money - which is why you bought the
Honda in the first place.

Example: dust in a valve (a small hole in plastic) that
slowly opens EGR valve. Explained the problem and Pxxx code
to service man. He and his mechanic look at each other and
immediately cite that plastic valve. A discount mechanics
would have uselessly replaced a $70+ EGR valve (plus labor)
because that is what code said. A smart mechanic immediately
knew it was that $4 plastic valve. Immediately obvious these
guys knew their stuff - which is why they cost more per hour
and save me money.

"T. Nelson" wrote:
> The best way to find a great mechanic is to talk to your co-workers
> and friends. At least one or more of them will tell you about a
> mechanic that is great. The Honda dealership has excellent
> mechanincs but you would have to pay much more to them than you
> would pay to local mechanics which is why lots of people don't take
> their cars to Honda dealerships for service unless they have newer
> cars still under warranty.
>
> Of course, the rich people will go to the Honda dealership but most
> of us are not part of that group--especially me.

w_tom

I know those discount mechanics. One Honda had valves
adjusted so badly to be loosened by more than 12 times (more
than one full turn) what valve life would be in the entire car
life. Engine made a terrible racket after adjustment and yet
that discount mechanic (and his supervisor) did not even hear
it. They were into costs; not value.

Heater core control wire pulled off and not properly
installed so that heater output constantly even when air
conditioner was on. Disc brake rotor resurfaced improperly so
that vibration damaged wheel bearings. Or bearing was
defective and discount mechanic never bothered to check -
therefore resurfacing disc rotor wrong. Either way, problem
directly traceable to man who costs less because he is not
good enough. Problem that cost that owner $hundreds more even
after returning to the discount mechanic and demanding those
discount brakes be replaced with Honda brake pads - for free.
More than three trips because job was first done discount.

Even dust cover (so that disc caliber slides clean and easy)
never reconnected so that caliber seized due to brake dust. I
found that major problem. Muffler replaced with a Midas brand
that failed within 20 to 40% of a normal muffler life. Timing
done improperly (discount mechanic did not know about a
required jumper - so even gas mileage was significantly
lower). Readjusting timing cost more money.

You don't save money by being a 'bean counter'. Such
mentality is why GM cars cost more to build than Mercedes -
comparatively equipped. GM buys on price - not value - which
is why their costs are higher. If you don't like the car,
then go to those discount mechanics.

Talking to co-workers is only good if the co-worker has
technical knowledge. Does he do his own service? And even
after that co-worker recommendation, the service man must
still pass muster. Too many males don't know beans about cars
- only recommend the man who talks pretty - what some call
'acting cool'.

Sit in dealer; listening to how they talk to women. The bad
service rep will outrightly lie about technicals because she
is a woman and therefore must be dumb. Yes, I saw one Honda
dealer blame the woman because mechanic did not put oil filter
on correctly. Even the parts dept guy there considered retail
part sales a nuisance. Co-worker recommendations are only
good enough to begin a search. Many males don't learn an
engineering mentality - the need for irrefutable technical
facts - because they don't do some work themselves. Instead,
many males can only judge based upon personal chemistry.

Why do I use the dealer? Because therefore service even
solves problems before they happen. Less hands (and smarter
hands) inside the car means less failures. You are talking
too much like a GM mentality - who therefore thinks numerous
service visits are necessary. I have seen it too often
because I never need all those return visits. I learned why
dealer mechanics can be so important.

BTW, I also have another independent mechanic because he is
local. He costs just as much. He does the little things like
inspection. He has demonstrated great knowledge which is why
his higher prices actually cost me less.

Another 'save money' technique. Many don't buy their wiper
blades from the dealer. Therefore inferior rubber in discount
Autoworld blades require replacement every three months. Pay
a dollar or two more for Honda blades and get more than 12
months- virtually no streaking. Pay a little more and get
more than 4 times the wiper life. Therefore again, save big
time. Real world: Trico, etc discount wiper blades are for
those with a GM mentality who foolishly wish they were saving
money.

Honda owners are richer because they don't cost control -
and therefore spend less money on maintenance and other
things. That Autoworld service man who read your Pxxx code
should have all but been yelling in your ear, "Run now if you
want to save money!"

I am not an auto mechanic. Just that those discount
mechanics are too often so bad that even I had to locate and
fix their bad workmanship. Expensive Honda dealer mechanics
often mean you spend less money - which is why you bought the
Honda in the first place.

Example: dust in a valve (a small hole in plastic) that
slowly opens EGR valve. Explained the problem and Pxxx code
to service man. He and his mechanic look at each other and
immediately cite that plastic valve. A discount mechanics
would have uselessly replaced a $70+ EGR valve (plus labor)
because that is what code said. A smart mechanic immediately
knew it was that $4 plastic valve. Immediately obvious these
guys knew their stuff - which is why they cost more per hour
and save me money.

"T. Nelson" wrote:
> The best way to find a great mechanic is to talk to your co-workers
> and friends. At least one or more of them will tell you about a
> mechanic that is great. The Honda dealership has excellent
> mechanincs but you would have to pay much more to them than you
> would pay to local mechanics which is why lots of people don't take
> their cars to Honda dealerships for service unless they have newer
> cars still under warranty.
>
> Of course, the rich people will go to the Honda dealership but most
> of us are not part of that group--especially me.

w_tom

I know those discount mechanics. One Honda had valves
adjusted so badly to be loosened by more than 12 times (more
than one full turn) what valve life would be in the entire car
life. Engine made a terrible racket after adjustment and yet
that discount mechanic (and his supervisor) did not even hear
it. They were into costs; not value.

Heater core control wire pulled off and not properly
installed so that heater output constantly even when air
conditioner was on. Disc brake rotor resurfaced improperly so
that vibration damaged wheel bearings. Or bearing was
defective and discount mechanic never bothered to check -
therefore resurfacing disc rotor wrong. Either way, problem
directly traceable to man who costs less because he is not
good enough. Problem that cost that owner $hundreds more even
after returning to the discount mechanic and demanding those
discount brakes be replaced with Honda brake pads - for free.
More than three trips because job was first done discount.

Even dust cover (so that disc caliber slides clean and easy)
never reconnected so that caliber seized due to brake dust. I
found that major problem. Muffler replaced with a Midas brand
that failed within 20 to 40% of a normal muffler life. Timing
done improperly (discount mechanic did not know about a
required jumper - so even gas mileage was significantly
lower). Readjusting timing cost more money.

You don't save money by being a 'bean counter'. Such
mentality is why GM cars cost more to build than Mercedes -
comparatively equipped. GM buys on price - not value - which
is why their costs are higher. If you don't like the car,
then go to those discount mechanics.

Talking to co-workers is only good if the co-worker has
technical knowledge. Does he do his own service? And even
after that co-worker recommendation, the service man must
still pass muster. Too many males don't know beans about cars
- only recommend the man who talks pretty - what some call
'acting cool'.

Sit in dealer; listening to how they talk to women. The bad
service rep will outrightly lie about technicals because she
is a woman and therefore must be dumb. Yes, I saw one Honda
dealer blame the woman because mechanic did not put oil filter
on correctly. Even the parts dept guy there considered retail
part sales a nuisance. Co-worker recommendations are only
good enough to begin a search. Many males don't learn an
engineering mentality - the need for irrefutable technical
facts - because they don't do some work themselves. Instead,
many males can only judge based upon personal chemistry.

Why do I use the dealer? Because therefore service even
solves problems before they happen. Less hands (and smarter
hands) inside the car means less failures. You are talking
too much like a GM mentality - who therefore thinks numerous
service visits are necessary. I have seen it too often
because I never need all those return visits. I learned why
dealer mechanics can be so important.

BTW, I also have another independent mechanic because he is
local. He costs just as much. He does the little things like
inspection. He has demonstrated great knowledge which is why
his higher prices actually cost me less.

Another 'save money' technique. Many don't buy their wiper
blades from the dealer. Therefore inferior rubber in discount
Autoworld blades require replacement every three months. Pay
a dollar or two more for Honda blades and get more than 12
months- virtually no streaking. Pay a little more and get
more than 4 times the wiper life. Therefore again, save big
time. Real world: Trico, etc discount wiper blades are for
those with a GM mentality who foolishly wish they were saving
money.

Honda owners are richer because they don't cost control -
and therefore spend less money on maintenance and other
things. That Autoworld service man who read your Pxxx code
should have all but been yelling in your ear, "Run now if you
want to save money!"

I am not an auto mechanic. Just that those discount
mechanics are too often so bad that even I had to locate and
fix their bad workmanship. Expensive Honda dealer mechanics
often mean you spend less money - which is why you bought the
Honda in the first place.

Example: dust in a valve (a small hole in plastic) that
slowly opens EGR valve. Explained the problem and Pxxx code
to service man. He and his mechanic look at each other and
immediately cite that plastic valve. A discount mechanics
would have uselessly replaced a $70+ EGR valve (plus labor)
because that is what code said. A smart mechanic immediately
knew it was that $4 plastic valve. Immediately obvious these
guys knew their stuff - which is why they cost more per hour
and save me money.

"T. Nelson" wrote:
> The best way to find a great mechanic is to talk to your co-workers
> and friends. At least one or more of them will tell you about a
> mechanic that is great. The Honda dealership has excellent
> mechanincs but you would have to pay much more to them than you
> would pay to local mechanics which is why lots of people don't take
> their cars to Honda dealerships for service unless they have newer
> cars still under warranty.
>
> Of course, the rich people will go to the Honda dealership but most
> of us are not part of that group--especially me.

electricked

Hi Tom,

I completely understand and agree with you. Of course that's if you are in
the workforce earning money. At the moment I'm still spending money :/ in
educating myself (college) so I try to be smart in choosing my mechanics.
Honda dealer is too expensive for my situation, and a lot of the discount
mechanics do a half-assed job. It's best if you have some knowledge to know
wether the mechanic is taking you for a spin or if he really knows his
stuff. I also find it fun, challenging, and healthy to work on my car while
learning and relating new knowledge to everyday life.

There are bad mechanics everywhere, even in dealerships, and even the good
mechanics make mistakes at times. For me it's important the customer
satisfaction for a period of time instead of a one or two mistakes that the
mechanic might have made. Sometimes the saying "you get what you paid for"
is a bunch of balloney but there's a definite relation in most cases.

--Viktor


"w_tom" <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:402C1D97.316BCF9F@hotmail.com...
> I know those discount mechanics. One Honda had valves
> adjusted so badly to be loosened by more than 12 times (more
> than one full turn) what valve life would be in the entire car
> life. Engine made a terrible racket after adjustment and yet
> that discount mechanic (and his supervisor) did not even hear
> it. They were into costs; not value.
>
> Heater core control wire pulled off and not properly
> installed so that heater output constantly even when air
> conditioner was on. Disc brake rotor resurfaced improperly so
> that vibration damaged wheel bearings. Or bearing was
> defective and discount mechanic never bothered to check -
> therefore resurfacing disc rotor wrong. Either way, problem
> directly traceable to man who costs less because he is not
> good enough. Problem that cost that owner $hundreds more even
> after returning to the discount mechanic and demanding those
> discount brakes be replaced with Honda brake pads - for free.
> More than three trips because job was first done discount.
>
> Even dust cover (so that disc caliber slides clean and easy)
> never reconnected so that caliber seized due to brake dust. I
> found that major problem. Muffler replaced with a Midas brand
> that failed within 20 to 40% of a normal muffler life. Timing
> done improperly (discount mechanic did not know about a
> required jumper - so even gas mileage was significantly
> lower). Readjusting timing cost more money.
>
> You don't save money by being a 'bean counter'. Such
> mentality is why GM cars cost more to build than Mercedes -
> comparatively equipped. GM buys on price - not value - which
> is why their costs are higher. If you don't like the car,
> then go to those discount mechanics.
>
> Talking to co-workers is only good if the co-worker has
> technical knowledge. Does he do his own service? And even
> after that co-worker recommendation, the service man must
> still pass muster. Too many males don't know beans about cars
> - only recommend the man who talks pretty - what some call
> 'acting cool'.
>
> Sit in dealer; listening to how they talk to women. The bad
> service rep will outrightly lie about technicals because she
> is a woman and therefore must be dumb. Yes, I saw one Honda
> dealer blame the woman because mechanic did not put oil filter
> on correctly. Even the parts dept guy there considered retail
> part sales a nuisance. Co-worker recommendations are only
> good enough to begin a search. Many males don't learn an
> engineering mentality - the need for irrefutable technical
> facts - because they don't do some work themselves. Instead,
> many males can only judge based upon personal chemistry.
>
> Why do I use the dealer? Because therefore service even
> solves problems before they happen. Less hands (and smarter
> hands) inside the car means less failures. You are talking
> too much like a GM mentality - who therefore thinks numerous
> service visits are necessary. I have seen it too often
> because I never need all those return visits. I learned why
> dealer mechanics can be so important.
>
> BTW, I also have another independent mechanic because he is
> local. He costs just as much. He does the little things like
> inspection. He has demonstrated great knowledge which is why
> his higher prices actually cost me less.
>
> Another 'save money' technique. Many don't buy their wiper
> blades from the dealer. Therefore inferior rubber in discount
> Autoworld blades require replacement every three months. Pay
> a dollar or two more for Honda blades and get more than 12
> months- virtually no streaking. Pay a little more and get
> more than 4 times the wiper life. Therefore again, save big
> time. Real world: Trico, etc discount wiper blades are for
> those with a GM mentality who foolishly wish they were saving
> money.
>
> Honda owners are richer because they don't cost control -
> and therefore spend less money on maintenance and other
> things. That Autoworld service man who read your Pxxx code
> should have all but been yelling in your ear, "Run now if you
> want to save money!"
>
> I am not an auto mechanic. Just that those discount
> mechanics are too often so bad that even I had to locate and
> fix their bad workmanship. Expensive Honda dealer mechanics
> often mean you spend less money - which is why you bought the
> Honda in the first place.
>
> Example: dust in a valve (a small hole in plastic) that
> slowly opens EGR valve. Explained the problem and Pxxx code
> to service man. He and his mechanic look at each other and
> immediately cite that plastic valve. A discount mechanics
> would have uselessly replaced a $70+ EGR valve (plus labor)
> because that is what code said. A smart mechanic immediately
> knew it was that $4 plastic valve. Immediately obvious these
> guys knew their stuff - which is why they cost more per hour
> and save me money.
>
> "T. Nelson" wrote:
> > The best way to find a great mechanic is to talk to your co-workers
> > and friends. At least one or more of them will tell you about a
> > mechanic that is great. The Honda dealership has excellent
> > mechanincs but you would have to pay much more to them than you
> > would pay to local mechanics which is why lots of people don't take
> > their cars to Honda dealerships for service unless they have newer
> > cars still under warranty.
> >
> > Of course, the rich people will go to the Honda dealership but most
> > of us are not part of that group--especially me.

electricked

Hi Tom,

I completely understand and agree with you. Of course that's if you are in
the workforce earning money. At the moment I'm still spending money :/ in
educating myself (college) so I try to be smart in choosing my mechanics.
Honda dealer is too expensive for my situation, and a lot of the discount
mechanics do a half-assed job. It's best if you have some knowledge to know
wether the mechanic is taking you for a spin or if he really knows his
stuff. I also find it fun, challenging, and healthy to work on my car while
learning and relating new knowledge to everyday life.

There are bad mechanics everywhere, even in dealerships, and even the good
mechanics make mistakes at times. For me it's important the customer
satisfaction for a period of time instead of a one or two mistakes that the
mechanic might have made. Sometimes the saying "you get what you paid for"
is a bunch of balloney but there's a definite relation in most cases.

--Viktor


"w_tom" <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:402C1D97.316BCF9F@hotmail.com...
> I know those discount mechanics. One Honda had valves
> adjusted so badly to be loosened by more than 12 times (more
> than one full turn) what valve life would be in the entire car
> life. Engine made a terrible racket after adjustment and yet
> that discount mechanic (and his supervisor) did not even hear
> it. They were into costs; not value.
>
> Heater core control wire pulled off and not properly
> installed so that heater output constantly even when air
> conditioner was on. Disc brake rotor resurfaced improperly so
> that vibration damaged wheel bearings. Or bearing was
> defective and discount mechanic never bothered to check -
> therefore resurfacing disc rotor wrong. Either way, problem
> directly traceable to man who costs less because he is not
> good enough. Problem that cost that owner $hundreds more even
> after returning to the discount mechanic and demanding those
> discount brakes be replaced with Honda brake pads - for free.
> More than three trips because job was first done discount.
>
> Even dust cover (so that disc caliber slides clean and easy)
> never reconnected so that caliber seized due to brake dust. I
> found that major problem. Muffler replaced with a Midas brand
> that failed within 20 to 40% of a normal muffler life. Timing
> done improperly (discount mechanic did not know about a
> required jumper - so even gas mileage was significantly
> lower). Readjusting timing cost more money.
>
> You don't save money by being a 'bean counter'. Such
> mentality is why GM cars cost more to build than Mercedes -
> comparatively equipped. GM buys on price - not value - which
> is why their costs are higher. If you don't like the car,
> then go to those discount mechanics.
>
> Talking to co-workers is only good if the co-worker has
> technical knowledge. Does he do his own service? And even
> after that co-worker recommendation, the service man must
> still pass muster. Too many males don't know beans about cars
> - only recommend the man who talks pretty - what some call
> 'acting cool'.
>
> Sit in dealer; listening to how they talk to women. The bad
> service rep will outrightly lie about technicals because she
> is a woman and therefore must be dumb. Yes, I saw one Honda
> dealer blame the woman because mechanic did not put oil filter
> on correctly. Even the parts dept guy there considered retail
> part sales a nuisance. Co-worker recommendations are only
> good enough to begin a search. Many males don't learn an
> engineering mentality - the need for irrefutable technical
> facts - because they don't do some work themselves. Instead,
> many males can only judge based upon personal chemistry.
>
> Why do I use the dealer? Because therefore service even
> solves problems before they happen. Less hands (and smarter
> hands) inside the car means less failures. You are talking
> too much like a GM mentality - who therefore thinks numerous
> service visits are necessary. I have seen it too often
> because I never need all those return visits. I learned why
> dealer mechanics can be so important.
>
> BTW, I also have another independent mechanic because he is
> local. He costs just as much. He does the little things like
> inspection. He has demonstrated great knowledge which is why
> his higher prices actually cost me less.
>
> Another 'save money' technique. Many don't buy their wiper
> blades from the dealer. Therefore inferior rubber in discount
> Autoworld blades require replacement every three months. Pay
> a dollar or two more for Honda blades and get more than 12
> months- virtually no streaking. Pay a little more and get
> more than 4 times the wiper life. Therefore again, save big
> time. Real world: Trico, etc discount wiper blades are for
> those with a GM mentality who foolishly wish they were saving
> money.
>
> Honda owners are richer because they don't cost control -
> and therefore spend less money on maintenance and other
> things. That Autoworld service man who read your Pxxx code
> should have all but been yelling in your ear, "Run now if you
> want to save money!"
>
> I am not an auto mechanic. Just that those discount
> mechanics are too often so bad that even I had to locate and
> fix their bad workmanship. Expensive Honda dealer mechanics
> often mean you spend less money - which is why you bought the
> Honda in the first place.
>
> Example: dust in a valve (a small hole in plastic) that
> slowly opens EGR valve. Explained the problem and Pxxx code
> to service man. He and his mechanic look at each other and
> immediately cite that plastic valve. A discount mechanics
> would have uselessly replaced a $70+ EGR valve (plus labor)
> because that is what code said. A smart mechanic immediately
> knew it was that $4 plastic valve. Immediately obvious these
> guys knew their stuff - which is why they cost more per hour
> and save me money.
>
> "T. Nelson" wrote:
> > The best way to find a great mechanic is to talk to your co-workers
> > and friends. At least one or more of them will tell you about a
> > mechanic that is great. The Honda dealership has excellent
> > mechanincs but you would have to pay much more to them than you
> > would pay to local mechanics which is why lots of people don't take
> > their cars to Honda dealerships for service unless they have newer
> > cars still under warranty.
> >
> > Of course, the rich people will go to the Honda dealership but most
> > of us are not part of that group--especially me.

electricked

Hi Tom,

I completely understand and agree with you. Of course that's if you are in
the workforce earning money. At the moment I'm still spending money :/ in
educating myself (college) so I try to be smart in choosing my mechanics.
Honda dealer is too expensive for my situation, and a lot of the discount
mechanics do a half-assed job. It's best if you have some knowledge to know
wether the mechanic is taking you for a spin or if he really knows his
stuff. I also find it fun, challenging, and healthy to work on my car while
learning and relating new knowledge to everyday life.

There are bad mechanics everywhere, even in dealerships, and even the good
mechanics make mistakes at times. For me it's important the customer
satisfaction for a period of time instead of a one or two mistakes that the
mechanic might have made. Sometimes the saying "you get what you paid for"
is a bunch of balloney but there's a definite relation in most cases.

--Viktor


"w_tom" <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:402C1D97.316BCF9F@hotmail.com...
> I know those discount mechanics. One Honda had valves
> adjusted so badly to be loosened by more than 12 times (more
> than one full turn) what valve life would be in the entire car
> life. Engine made a terrible racket after adjustment and yet
> that discount mechanic (and his supervisor) did not even hear
> it. They were into costs; not value.
>
> Heater core control wire pulled off and not properly
> installed so that heater output constantly even when air
> conditioner was on. Disc brake rotor resurfaced improperly so
> that vibration damaged wheel bearings. Or bearing was
> defective and discount mechanic never bothered to check -
> therefore resurfacing disc rotor wrong. Either way, problem
> directly traceable to man who costs less because he is not
> good enough. Problem that cost that owner $hundreds more even
> after returning to the discount mechanic and demanding those
> discount brakes be replaced with Honda brake pads - for free.
> More than three trips because job was first done discount.
>
> Even dust cover (so that disc caliber slides clean and easy)
> never reconnected so that caliber seized due to brake dust. I
> found that major problem. Muffler replaced with a Midas brand
> that failed within 20 to 40% of a normal muffler life. Timing
> done improperly (discount mechanic did not know about a
> required jumper - so even gas mileage was significantly
> lower). Readjusting timing cost more money.
>
> You don't save money by being a 'bean counter'. Such
> mentality is why GM cars cost more to build than Mercedes -
> comparatively equipped. GM buys on price - not value - which
> is why their costs are higher. If you don't like the car,
> then go to those discount mechanics.
>
> Talking to co-workers is only good if the co-worker has
> technical knowledge. Does he do his own service? And even
> after that co-worker recommendation, the service man must
> still pass muster. Too many males don't know beans about cars
> - only recommend the man who talks pretty - what some call
> 'acting cool'.
>
> Sit in dealer; listening to how they talk to women. The bad
> service rep will outrightly lie about technicals because she
> is a woman and therefore must be dumb. Yes, I saw one Honda
> dealer blame the woman because mechanic did not put oil filter
> on correctly. Even the parts dept guy there considered retail
> part sales a nuisance. Co-worker recommendations are only
> good enough to begin a search. Many males don't learn an
> engineering mentality - the need for irrefutable technical
> facts - because they don't do some work themselves. Instead,
> many males can only judge based upon personal chemistry.
>
> Why do I use the dealer? Because therefore service even
> solves problems before they happen. Less hands (and smarter
> hands) inside the car means less failures. You are talking
> too much like a GM mentality - who therefore thinks numerous
> service visits are necessary. I have seen it too often
> because I never need all those return visits. I learned why
> dealer mechanics can be so important.
>
> BTW, I also have another independent mechanic because he is
> local. He costs just as much. He does the little things like
> inspection. He has demonstrated great knowledge which is why
> his higher prices actually cost me less.
>
> Another 'save money' technique. Many don't buy their wiper
> blades from the dealer. Therefore inferior rubber in discount
> Autoworld blades require replacement every three months. Pay
> a dollar or two more for Honda blades and get more than 12
> months- virtually no streaking. Pay a little more and get
> more than 4 times the wiper life. Therefore again, save big
> time. Real world: Trico, etc discount wiper blades are for
> those with a GM mentality who foolishly wish they were saving
> money.
>
> Honda owners are richer because they don't cost control -
> and therefore spend less money on maintenance and other
> things. That Autoworld service man who read your Pxxx code
> should have all but been yelling in your ear, "Run now if you
> want to save money!"
>
> I am not an auto mechanic. Just that those discount
> mechanics are too often so bad that even I had to locate and
> fix their bad workmanship. Expensive Honda dealer mechanics
> often mean you spend less money - which is why you bought the
> Honda in the first place.
>
> Example: dust in a valve (a small hole in plastic) that
> slowly opens EGR valve. Explained the problem and Pxxx code
> to service man. He and his mechanic look at each other and
> immediately cite that plastic valve. A discount mechanics
> would have uselessly replaced a $70+ EGR valve (plus labor)
> because that is what code said. A smart mechanic immediately
> knew it was that $4 plastic valve. Immediately obvious these
> guys knew their stuff - which is why they cost more per hour
> and save me money.
>
> "T. Nelson" wrote:
> > The best way to find a great mechanic is to talk to your co-workers
> > and friends. At least one or more of them will tell you about a
> > mechanic that is great. The Honda dealership has excellent
> > mechanincs but you would have to pay much more to them than you
> > would pay to local mechanics which is why lots of people don't take
> > their cars to Honda dealerships for service unless they have newer
> > cars still under warranty.
> >
> > Of course, the rich people will go to the Honda dealership but most
> > of us are not part of that group--especially me.

electricked

Hi Tom,

I completely understand and agree with you. Of course that's if you are in
the workforce earning money. At the moment I'm still spending money :/ in
educating myself (college) so I try to be smart in choosing my mechanics.
Honda dealer is too expensive for my situation, and a lot of the discount
mechanics do a half-assed job. It's best if you have some knowledge to know
wether the mechanic is taking you for a spin or if he really knows his
stuff. I also find it fun, challenging, and healthy to work on my car while
learning and relating new knowledge to everyday life.

There are bad mechanics everywhere, even in dealerships, and even the good
mechanics make mistakes at times. For me it's important the customer
satisfaction for a period of time instead of a one or two mistakes that the
mechanic might have made. Sometimes the saying "you get what you paid for"
is a bunch of balloney but there's a definite relation in most cases.

--Viktor


"w_tom" <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:402C1D97.316BCF9F@hotmail.com...
> I know those discount mechanics. One Honda had valves
> adjusted so badly to be loosened by more than 12 times (more
> than one full turn) what valve life would be in the entire car
> life. Engine made a terrible racket after adjustment and yet
> that discount mechanic (and his supervisor) did not even hear
> it. They were into costs; not value.
>
> Heater core control wire pulled off and not properly
> installed so that heater output constantly even when air
> conditioner was on. Disc brake rotor resurfaced improperly so
> that vibration damaged wheel bearings. Or bearing was
> defective and discount mechanic never bothered to check -
> therefore resurfacing disc rotor wrong. Either way, problem
> directly traceable to man who costs less because he is not
> good enough. Problem that cost that owner $hundreds more even
> after returning to the discount mechanic and demanding those
> discount brakes be replaced with Honda brake pads - for free.
> More than three trips because job was first done discount.
>
> Even dust cover (so that disc caliber slides clean and easy)
> never reconnected so that caliber seized due to brake dust. I
> found that major problem. Muffler replaced with a Midas brand
> that failed within 20 to 40% of a normal muffler life. Timing
> done improperly (discount mechanic did not know about a
> required jumper - so even gas mileage was significantly
> lower). Readjusting timing cost more money.
>
> You don't save money by being a 'bean counter'. Such
> mentality is why GM cars cost more to build than Mercedes -
> comparatively equipped. GM buys on price - not value - which
> is why their costs are higher. If you don't like the car,
> then go to those discount mechanics.
>
> Talking to co-workers is only good if the co-worker has
> technical knowledge. Does he do his own service? And even
> after that co-worker recommendation, the service man must
> still pass muster. Too many males don't know beans about cars
> - only recommend the man who talks pretty - what some call
> 'acting cool'.
>
> Sit in dealer; listening to how they talk to women. The bad
> service rep will outrightly lie about technicals because she
> is a woman and therefore must be dumb. Yes, I saw one Honda
> dealer blame the woman because mechanic did not put oil filter
> on correctly. Even the parts dept guy there considered retail
> part sales a nuisance. Co-worker recommendations are only
> good enough to begin a search. Many males don't learn an
> engineering mentality - the need for irrefutable technical
> facts - because they don't do some work themselves. Instead,
> many males can only judge based upon personal chemistry.
>
> Why do I use the dealer? Because therefore service even
> solves problems before they happen. Less hands (and smarter
> hands) inside the car means less failures. You are talking
> too much like a GM mentality - who therefore thinks numerous
> service visits are necessary. I have seen it too often
> because I never need all those return visits. I learned why
> dealer mechanics can be so important.
>
> BTW, I also have another independent mechanic because he is
> local. He costs just as much. He does the little things like
> inspection. He has demonstrated great knowledge which is why
> his higher prices actually cost me less.
>
> Another 'save money' technique. Many don't buy their wiper
> blades from the dealer. Therefore inferior rubber in discount
> Autoworld blades require replacement every three months. Pay
> a dollar or two more for Honda blades and get more than 12
> months- virtually no streaking. Pay a little more and get
> more than 4 times the wiper life. Therefore again, save big
> time. Real world: Trico, etc discount wiper blades are for
> those with a GM mentality who foolishly wish they were saving
> money.
>
> Honda owners are richer because they don't cost control -
> and therefore spend less money on maintenance and other
> things. That Autoworld service man who read your Pxxx code
> should have all but been yelling in your ear, "Run now if you
> want to save money!"
>
> I am not an auto mechanic. Just that those discount
> mechanics are too often so bad that even I had to locate and
> fix their bad workmanship. Expensive Honda dealer mechanics
> often mean you spend less money - which is why you bought the
> Honda in the first place.
>
> Example: dust in a valve (a small hole in plastic) that
> slowly opens EGR valve. Explained the problem and Pxxx code
> to service man. He and his mechanic look at each other and
> immediately cite that plastic valve. A discount mechanics
> would have uselessly replaced a $70+ EGR valve (plus labor)
> because that is what code said. A smart mechanic immediately
> knew it was that $4 plastic valve. Immediately obvious these
> guys knew their stuff - which is why they cost more per hour
> and save me money.
>
> "T. Nelson" wrote:
> > The best way to find a great mechanic is to talk to your co-workers
> > and friends. At least one or more of them will tell you about a
> > mechanic that is great. The Honda dealership has excellent
> > mechanincs but you would have to pay much more to them than you
> > would pay to local mechanics which is why lots of people don't take
> > their cars to Honda dealerships for service unless they have newer
> > cars still under warranty.
> >
> > Of course, the rich people will go to the Honda dealership but most
> > of us are not part of that group--especially me.

w_tom

Much to be learned by experience and mistakes. Often one
need not take it to a discount mechanic. One should be doing
much service personally. Money is not saved in 'dollars per
hour' but it does save money overall. And 'doing it yourself'
teaches things necessary to differentiate good mechanics from
bad. And yes, also a 'fun' to it. For example, fluid changes
should never require even a discount mechanic.

To save money, a Honda shop manual is a given necessity
(even though manual is not as educational as even 15 years
ago).

electricked wrote:
> I completely understand and agree with you. Of course that's if you
> are in the workforce earning money. At the moment I'm still
> spending money :/ in educating myself (college) so I try to be smart
> in choosing my mechanics. Honda dealer is too expensive for my
> situation, and a lot of the discount mechanics do a half-assed job.
> It's best if you have some knowledge to know wether the mechanic is
> taking you for a spin or if he really knows his stuff. I also find
> it fun, challenging, and healthy to work on my car while learning
> and relating new knowledge to everyday life.
>
> There are bad mechanics everywhere, even in dealerships, and even
> the good mechanics make mistakes at times. For me it's important
> the customer satisfaction for a period of time instead of a one or
> two mistakes that the mechanic might have made. Sometimes the
> saying "you get what you paid for" is a bunch of balloney but
> there's a definite relation in most cases.

w_tom

Much to be learned by experience and mistakes. Often one
need not take it to a discount mechanic. One should be doing
much service personally. Money is not saved in 'dollars per
hour' but it does save money overall. And 'doing it yourself'
teaches things necessary to differentiate good mechanics from
bad. And yes, also a 'fun' to it. For example, fluid changes
should never require even a discount mechanic.

To save money, a Honda shop manual is a given necessity
(even though manual is not as educational as even 15 years
ago).

electricked wrote:
> I completely understand and agree with you. Of course that's if you
> are in the workforce earning money. At the moment I'm still
> spending money :/ in educating myself (college) so I try to be smart
> in choosing my mechanics. Honda dealer is too expensive for my
> situation, and a lot of the discount mechanics do a half-assed job.
> It's best if you have some knowledge to know wether the mechanic is
> taking you for a spin or if he really knows his stuff. I also find
> it fun, challenging, and healthy to work on my car while learning
> and relating new knowledge to everyday life.
>
> There are bad mechanics everywhere, even in dealerships, and even
> the good mechanics make mistakes at times. For me it's important
> the customer satisfaction for a period of time instead of a one or
> two mistakes that the mechanic might have made. Sometimes the
> saying "you get what you paid for" is a bunch of balloney but
> there's a definite relation in most cases.

w_tom

Much to be learned by experience and mistakes. Often one
need not take it to a discount mechanic. One should be doing
much service personally. Money is not saved in 'dollars per
hour' but it does save money overall. And 'doing it yourself'
teaches things necessary to differentiate good mechanics from
bad. And yes, also a 'fun' to it. For example, fluid changes
should never require even a discount mechanic.

To save money, a Honda shop manual is a given necessity
(even though manual is not as educational as even 15 years
ago).

electricked wrote:
> I completely understand and agree with you. Of course that's if you
> are in the workforce earning money. At the moment I'm still
> spending money :/ in educating myself (college) so I try to be smart
> in choosing my mechanics. Honda dealer is too expensive for my
> situation, and a lot of the discount mechanics do a half-assed job.
> It's best if you have some knowledge to know wether the mechanic is
> taking you for a spin or if he really knows his stuff. I also find
> it fun, challenging, and healthy to work on my car while learning
> and relating new knowledge to everyday life.
>
> There are bad mechanics everywhere, even in dealerships, and even
> the good mechanics make mistakes at times. For me it's important
> the customer satisfaction for a period of time instead of a one or
> two mistakes that the mechanic might have made. Sometimes the
> saying "you get what you paid for" is a bunch of balloney but
> there's a definite relation in most cases.

w_tom

Much to be learned by experience and mistakes. Often one
need not take it to a discount mechanic. One should be doing
much service personally. Money is not saved in 'dollars per
hour' but it does save money overall. And 'doing it yourself'
teaches things necessary to differentiate good mechanics from
bad. And yes, also a 'fun' to it. For example, fluid changes
should never require even a discount mechanic.

To save money, a Honda shop manual is a given necessity
(even though manual is not as educational as even 15 years
ago).

electricked wrote:
> I completely understand and agree with you. Of course that's if you
> are in the workforce earning money. At the moment I'm still
> spending money :/ in educating myself (college) so I try to be smart
> in choosing my mechanics. Honda dealer is too expensive for my
> situation, and a lot of the discount mechanics do a half-assed job.
> It's best if you have some knowledge to know wether the mechanic is
> taking you for a spin or if he really knows his stuff. I also find
> it fun, challenging, and healthy to work on my car while learning
> and relating new knowledge to everyday life.
>
> There are bad mechanics everywhere, even in dealerships, and even
> the good mechanics make mistakes at times. For me it's important
> the customer satisfaction for a period of time instead of a one or
> two mistakes that the mechanic might have made. Sometimes the
> saying "you get what you paid for" is a bunch of balloney but
> there's a definite relation in most cases.