'Curly Q. Links'

I once saw a web page where a guy claimed you could make an O2 sensor
work like new by boiling it in bleach, (or something like that). I've
got three Hondas (six O2 sensors) that might benefit from such a
'trick'. :-)

I tried Google but didn't find it.

Anybody got some GOOD links to Oxygen Sensor diagnosis / helps?

I have access to a basic oscilloscope and other tools. I know Bosch is a
dead end, but they are as reliable as volkswagen :-(


Thanks, 'Curly'

Grumpy AuContraire

"'Curly Q. Links'" wrote:
>
> I once saw a web page where a guy claimed you could make an O2 sensor
> work like new by boiling it in bleach, (or something like that). I've
> got three Hondas (six O2 sensors) that might benefit from such a
> 'trick'. :-)
>
> I tried Google but didn't find it.
>
> Anybody got some GOOD links to Oxygen Sensor diagnosis / helps?
>
> I have access to a basic oscilloscope and other tools. I know Bosch is a
> dead end, but they are as reliable as volkswagen :-(
>
> Thanks, 'Curly'



What about bead blasting? Of course, if the enclosed silicon is kaput,
you're SOL...

JT

(Who appreciates parts recycling (back to me) whenever possible)

TeGGeR®

"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in
news:44199C0A.56B0B96D@interbaun.com:

> I once saw a web page where a guy claimed you could make an O2 sensor
> work like new by boiling it in bleach, (or something like that). I've
> got three Hondas (six O2 sensors) that might benefit from such a
> 'trick'. :-)
>
> I tried Google but didn't find it.



Guess what. I saved that message. Here it is, including the headers:


-----------------------------------------------------
Xref: news rec.autos.makers.honda:460297
Path: cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-12!sn-xit-
06!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!mcmurtri
From: Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.honda
Subject: Re: Oxygen Sensor
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:55:20 -0800
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Message-ID: <mcmurtri-E71487.20552029032005@corp-radius.supernews.com>
References: <1112108379.854052.254060@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups .com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.4 (PPC Mac OS X)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com
Lines: 28

In article <1112108379.854052.254060@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups .com>,
"contagiouss_blue" <akmukerji@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hello people!
>
> I have unfortunately fallen into the hapless section of society facing
> both a cash crunch and car trouble at the same time...looking for
> salvation here.
>
> I need to replace the oxygen sensor on my 1996 civic HX... is this a
> task uncomplicated enough for me to undertake armed with a set of
> tools? My skills : can use tools and can comprehend clear legible
> instructions. Will something like a Haynes Manual give me the required
> know-how for the job??
>
> Suggestions/tips are highly appreciated.

It's simple to remove it. An O2 sensor wrench would be easiest if it's
stuck on but mine came off easily with an adjustable wrench.

If it's failing because it's slow, you might be able to clean it. Fill
a stainless steel pan with 1/3 Lime Away tile cleaner (acid) and 2/3
purified water. Drop in the whole sensor and boil lightly for an hour
or two. Rinse thoroughly and boil it two more times using only purified
water. Mount it on the car and immediately drive to burn off the water.

I've done it twice so far. I figured the second time would ruin it but
it still works perfectly.

-----------------------------------------------------------

TeGGeR®

"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in
news:44199C0A.56B0B96D@interbaun.com:

> I once saw a web page where a guy claimed you could make an O2 sensor
> work like new by boiling it in bleach, (or something like that). I've
> got three Hondas (six O2 sensors) that might benefit from such a
> 'trick'. :-)
>
> I tried Google but didn't find it.
>
> Anybody got some GOOD links to Oxygen Sensor diagnosis / helps?



This page shows some waveforms, good and bad:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h37.pdf
Lots of official Toyota docs at Autoshop101.

Another one that looks good:
http://www.interro.com/techoxy.html




--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR®

"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in
news:44199C0A.56B0B96D@interbaun.com:

> I once saw a web page where a guy claimed you could make an O2 sensor
> work like new by boiling it in bleach, (or something like that). I've
> got three Hondas (six O2 sensors) that might benefit from such a
> 'trick'. :-)
>
> I tried Google but didn't find it.
>




Guess what. I saved that message. Here it is, including the headers:


-----------------------------------------------------
Xref: news rec.autos.makers.honda:460297
Path: cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-12!sn-xit-
06!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!mcmurtri
From: Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.honda
Subject: Re: Oxygen Sensor
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:55:20 -0800
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Message-ID: <mcmurtri-E71487.20552029032005@corp-radius.supernews.com>
References: <1112108379.854052.254060@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups .com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.4 (PPC Mac OS X)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com
Lines: 28

In article <1112108379.854052.254060@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups .com>,
"contagiouss_blue" <akmukerji@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hello people!
>
> I have unfortunately fallen into the hapless section of society facing
> both a cash crunch and car trouble at the same time...looking for
> salvation here.
>
> I need to replace the oxygen sensor on my 1996 civic HX... is this a
> task uncomplicated enough for me to undertake armed with a set of
> tools? My skills : can use tools and can comprehend clear legible
> instructions. Will something like a Haynes Manual give me the required
> know-how for the job??
>
> Suggestions/tips are highly appreciated.

It's simple to remove it. An O2 sensor wrench would be easiest if it's
stuck on but mine came off easily with an adjustable wrench.

If it's failing because it's slow, you might be able to clean it. Fill
a stainless steel pan with 1/3 Lime Away tile cleaner (acid) and 2/3
purified water. Drop in the whole sensor and boil lightly for an hour
or two. Rinse thoroughly and boil it two more times using only purified
water. Mount it on the car and immediately drive to burn off the water.

I've done it twice so far. I figured the second time would ruin it but
it still works perfectly.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Michael Pardee

"Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpster@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in message
news:4419AB76.117B2581@GrumpyvilleNOT.com...
>
> What about bead blasting? Of course, if the enclosed silicon is kaput,
> you're SOL...
>
> JT
>
> (Who appreciates parts recycling (back to me) whenever possible)

I think that would doom the sensor. My understanding is they are a porous
zirconia cup with platinum film inside and outside to create the electrodes.

Mike

Michael Pardee

"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:44199C0A.56B0B96D@interbaun.com...
>I once saw a web page where a guy claimed you could make an O2 sensor
> work like new by boiling it in bleach, (or something like that). I've
> got three Hondas (six O2 sensors) that might benefit from such a
> 'trick'. :-)
>
> I tried Google but didn't find it.
>
> Anybody got some GOOD links to Oxygen Sensor diagnosis / helps?
>
> I have access to a basic oscilloscope and other tools. I know Bosch is a
> dead end, but they are as reliable as volkswagen :-(
>
>
> Thanks, 'Curly'

The best explanation I've seen, complete with test info, is from Rick
Kirchoff http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/O2_Sensor.html

I've used a scope with some success before. Set the vertical up DC coupled,
to read a 0 volt to 1 volt range, and about 100 ms per division sweep. You
will see the .45 volt bias Rick describes until the sensor warms up, then it
quickly moves into the 0 volt to .9 volt transitions. The waveform is very
incoherent, of course, but you will see very rapid transitions... IIRC, on
the order of 10 ms for a good sensor. At idle the transitions should be
continuous; if you see periods when the transitions pause even though the
engine operation is steady there may very well be vacuum or fuel leaks. The
one I was looking at had a dripping throttle body injector. The ECU would
acquire an idle mixture for a second or two, then the voltage went high
(rich) and the ECU chased it until the mixture was lean and it had to find
the correct setting again. Stupid Taurus!

Mike

TeGGeR®

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:34udnW8YX54hhofZnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@sedona.net:

>
> "Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpster@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in message
> news:4419AB76.117B2581@GrumpyvilleNOT.com...
>>
>> What about bead blasting? Of course, if the enclosed silicon is
>> kaput, you're SOL...
>>
>> JT
>>
>> (Who appreciates parts recycling (back to me) whenever possible)
>
> I think that would doom the sensor. My understanding is they are a
> porous zirconia cup with platinum film inside and outside to create
> the electrodes.
>


Yep.
http://www.dynacer.com/oxygen_sensors.htm

Bead blasting would destroy the outer platinum. And you'd then not have the
ability of electron flow, which requires both an anode and a cathode...

I wonder if pure heat and no chemicals would do it, if you could heat up
the element enough to burn off contaminants? Platinum melts at 3,200F.
Exhaust gas in the combustion chamber is about 2,300F.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Michael Pardee

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns978896596FE86tegger@207.14.113.17...
> "'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in
> news:44199C0A.56B0B96D@interbaun.com:
>
>> I once saw a web page where a guy claimed you could make an O2 sensor
>> work like new by boiling it in bleach, (or something like that). I've
>> got three Hondas (six O2 sensors) that might benefit from such a
>> 'trick'. :-)
>>
>> I tried Google but didn't find it.
>>
>> Anybody got some GOOD links to Oxygen Sensor diagnosis / helps?
>
>
>
> This page shows some waveforms, good and bad:
> http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h37.pdf
> Lots of official Toyota docs at Autoshop101.
>
> Another one that looks good:
> http://www.interro.com/techoxy.html
>
>
>
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

And http://users.cnnw.net/~fourty/uses.html

Kevin McMurtrie

In article <Xns9788DBDA09F28tegger@207.14.113.17>,
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
> news:34udnW8YX54hhofZnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@sedona.net:
>
> >
> > "Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpster@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in message
> > news:4419AB76.117B2581@GrumpyvilleNOT.com...
> >>
> >> What about bead blasting? Of course, if the enclosed silicon is
> >> kaput, you're SOL...
> >>
> >> JT
> >>
> >> (Who appreciates parts recycling (back to me) whenever possible)
> >
> > I think that would doom the sensor. My understanding is they are a
> > porous zirconia cup with platinum film inside and outside to create
> > the electrodes.
> >
>
>
> Yep.
> http://www.dynacer.com/oxygen_sensors.htm
>
> Bead blasting would destroy the outer platinum. And you'd then not have the
> ability of electron flow, which requires both an anode and a cathode...
>
> I wonder if pure heat and no chemicals would do it, if you could heat up
> the element enough to burn off contaminants? Platinum melts at 3,200F.
> Exhaust gas in the combustion chamber is about 2,300F.

I tried that on a really dead sensor. The buildup melts when it's white
hot.

'Curly Q. Links'

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
> > I wonder if pure heat and no chemicals would do it, if you could heat up
> > the element enough to burn off contaminants? Platinum melts at 3,200F.
> > Exhaust gas in the combustion chamber is about 2,300F.

----------------

Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> I tried that on a really dead sensor. The buildup melts when it's white
> hot.

-------------------------

OK, the buildup melted. Did the sensor 'revive' or did it perish in the
flames? Did you 'scope' the sensor before / after?

'Curly'

Jim Yanik

"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in
news:441ADE46.111C6E32@interbaun.com:

>
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>> > I wonder if pure heat and no chemicals would do it, if you could
>> > heat up the element enough to burn off contaminants? Platinum melts
>> > at 3,200F. Exhaust gas in the combustion chamber is about 2,300F.
>
> ----------------
>
> Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
>> I tried that on a really dead sensor. The buildup melts when it's
>> white hot.
>
> -------------------------
>
> OK, the buildup melted. Did the sensor 'revive' or did it perish in
> the flames? Did you 'scope' the sensor before / after?
>
> 'Curly'
>

He said it "melted",but he didn't say whether the buildup was removed from
the sensor or not.

He also did not say whether he tried the "revived" sensor on a car,and the
results.
What's the point of trying to "revive" the "really dead sensor" if you
don't test it afterwards?

I think I'd rather try the chemical method.
At least someone says they tried the revived sensor on their engine.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net