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Re: axle R&R on '86 Honda Accord
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
> "Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote > > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote > > > > >> I drive on Southern Ontario roads. These are just like Michigan or > >> Wisconsin. The car has never seen the inside of a garage. > >> > >> It has, however, been drippy-rustproofed every year since new. > > > > What all is "drippy-rustproofed"? > > > > Something that appears to ONLY be available in Ontario and Quebec. > http://www.krown.com/ > http://www.rustcheck.com/ > > It works wonderfully. The best of anything I've ever seen. Better than tthe > waxy or gummy stuff. It does swell weatherstripping and is messy, but those > are good tradeoffs for a car that does not rust. Plus I presume the extension of the car body's life justifies the cost. (About what do you pay each year for this treatment?) One of the things that I think will be limiting on my car is the undercarriage rusting out so badly that I can't jack the sides up but instead can only do the ends. > Northeastern US states could benefit greatly from this, yet it's not sold > there. > > > > > > >> >> I'm going to be doing the fronts next year. I was just going to > >> >> saw the bolts and sleeves apart on either side of the bushing if > >> >> they wouldn't > >> > come > >> >> loose. > >> > > >> > What kind of saw? > >> > >> > >> > >> I was wondering about that. I don't know how hard the sleeves are, > >> which will be what makes the difference. There's room for a hacksaw > >> in between the flanges, > > > > It's tight. Worse, my hacksaw was not very effective. Have several new > > blades handy. If you're not getting anywhere after an hour, I'd urge > > trying something else. > > > > Hm. Not good. Well, I'm only an amateur. All of the regulars here have more experience than I. You got much farther than I did on the first part of your Integra's suspension job (of course!). > >> but I don't know about a reciprocating saw (Sawzall). Would a > >> reciprocating saw risk too much damage to surrounding components? > > > > Even if you can get it in where you want to cut, I'm not sure it will > > actually cut easily through that steel. > > > > I don't think I've seen a good solution for this yet. > > > Probably why my mechanic refused to consider doing the work. Interesting. > I asked him if he wanted to change the bushings at the same time as the > clutch if I gave him both jobs at once. |
Re: axle R&R on '86 Honda Accord
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
> "Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote > > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote > > > > >> I drive on Southern Ontario roads. These are just like Michigan or > >> Wisconsin. The car has never seen the inside of a garage. > >> > >> It has, however, been drippy-rustproofed every year since new. > > > > What all is "drippy-rustproofed"? > > > > Something that appears to ONLY be available in Ontario and Quebec. > http://www.krown.com/ > http://www.rustcheck.com/ > > It works wonderfully. The best of anything I've ever seen. Better than tthe > waxy or gummy stuff. It does swell weatherstripping and is messy, but those > are good tradeoffs for a car that does not rust. Plus I presume the extension of the car body's life justifies the cost. (About what do you pay each year for this treatment?) One of the things that I think will be limiting on my car is the undercarriage rusting out so badly that I can't jack the sides up but instead can only do the ends. > Northeastern US states could benefit greatly from this, yet it's not sold > there. > > > > > > >> >> I'm going to be doing the fronts next year. I was just going to > >> >> saw the bolts and sleeves apart on either side of the bushing if > >> >> they wouldn't > >> > come > >> >> loose. > >> > > >> > What kind of saw? > >> > >> > >> > >> I was wondering about that. I don't know how hard the sleeves are, > >> which will be what makes the difference. There's room for a hacksaw > >> in between the flanges, > > > > It's tight. Worse, my hacksaw was not very effective. Have several new > > blades handy. If you're not getting anywhere after an hour, I'd urge > > trying something else. > > > > Hm. Not good. Well, I'm only an amateur. All of the regulars here have more experience than I. You got much farther than I did on the first part of your Integra's suspension job (of course!). > >> but I don't know about a reciprocating saw (Sawzall). Would a > >> reciprocating saw risk too much damage to surrounding components? > > > > Even if you can get it in where you want to cut, I'm not sure it will > > actually cut easily through that steel. > > > > I don't think I've seen a good solution for this yet. > > > Probably why my mechanic refused to consider doing the work. Interesting. > I asked him if he wanted to change the bushings at the same time as the > clutch if I gave him both jobs at once. |
Re: axle R&R on '86 Honda Accord
jim beam (nospam@example.net) writes: > M.A. Stewart wrote: >> jim beam (nospam@example.net) writes: >> >>>M.A. Stewart wrote: >>> >>>>"glenn" (lunaqua@gmail.com) writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi. I'm caught in the old bind of being too poor to get a car that doesn't >>>>>need constant repairs, because my only car needs constant repairs, thus >>>>>keeping me too poor to get a car that... you know. >>>>> >>>>>Anyway, my '86 Honda Accord DX (manual trans, 155000 miles) might get me >>>>>another year's service if I can just get the CV joints fixed, which I will >>>>>be attempting this week. Got rebuilt axles on eBay (great price, no core >>>>>bother, but always a gamble, of course) and plan to put them in myself in a >>>>>few days, and wanted to ask if anyone has specific advice on the job. >>>>> >>>>>I've read all the horror stories on the web, most to do with rust-welded >>>>>spindle nuts, which I don't think will be a factor as I don't live in the >>>>>mid-west (the 'rust belt'). The job is fairly simple, composed of the steps: >>>>> >>>>>. loosen wheel lug nuts, raise on jack stands, remove spindle nut. >>>>> I plan to use WD-40 or some other penetrating oil on the spindle >>>>> nut to help, locking the wheel with a pry bar while using a breaker >>>>> bar (with pipe extension if necessary) to loosen the spindle nut, >>>>> but would appreciate any tips anyone has; (or if your own experience >>>>> tells you I shouldn't be attempting this, let me know too). >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Loosen spindle nut FIRST (wheels on the ground, tranny in first gear, >>>>parking brake on). Chisel back the locking tab on the nut before loosening >>>>the nut. If the shafts are original, you should be able to loosen it with >>>>a 2 foot cheater pipe on your breaker bar. If some clown had the shafts >>>>out before and used an impact wrench to put the spindle nut back on, it >>>>may be over torqued. If that is the case, you will need a 5 foot cheater >>>>pipe on your breaker bar. Remember... with a big enough lever and a sturdy >>>>fulcrum, you too can move the Earth! >>>> >>>>Loosen the nut so it is flush with the end of the shaft. Bang on it a bit >>>>with a hammer (steel hammer) to get the shaft moving out of the hub a >>>>little bit. Look close between bangs to see if the shaft is moving inward >>>>toward the car. Now jack up the car and remove the wheels etc.. >>> >>>/never/ use a steel hammer on bearings!!! >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>. drain tranny oil. Only question I have here is that it takes a >>>>>square-drive >>>>> wrench - does anyone know offhand what the size is? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>The square end of a socket extension fits nice and does the job. I forget >>>>if it is the 3/8 inch or the 1/2 inch extension that fits. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>. remove damper fork. >>>> >>>> >>>>No... NO.... N O ! ! ! ! DO NOT REMOVE THE FORK! Unless you are 100% sure >>>>that the bolt which goes through the rubber bushing on the lower control >>>>arm is NOT SEIZED... do not touch it! And I mean 100% sure! In North >>>>America where it snows, that bolt will be seized. You don't want to twist >>>>off the head of the bolt. The inner joint is always disassembled, and the >>>>shaft (minus the needle bearings) is puzzled through the fork. It is a >>>>little messy, and a pain in the ass, but it is MUCH easier (and CHEAPER) >>>>than cutting out the lower control arms with a torch and buying new lower >>>>control arms! >>> >>>well, the official way is to remove the fork. i luckily live in >>>california and can take the fork off my 89 no problems whatsoever. sure >>>makes life easier. >>> >>>but this is all academic - the op only need pop the lower swivel to have >>>enough room to get the driveshaft out. >> >> >> Not on the 1986/1989 Accord. The inner joint will not fit through fork! The >> fork has to be removed (not advised if the bolt is siezed) or the inner >> joint disassembled. > > i'm not talking completely about removing the axle, just getting > sufficient clearance to pop the ends frm the diff. > >> >> >>>>Cleanliness is next to godly. Be careful not to contaminate your inner >>>>joint guts with dirt! >>>> >>>>You will need to get two new inner joint large boot clamps before you >>>>start the job. Maybe you were lucky and the CV joint rebuilder put an >>>>extra clamp into the box for you! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Question: how difficult? There are 2 bolts - are >>>>> they likely to be seized or rusted together? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>If the car has been driven in the snow (where salt is used on the road), >>>>the lower fork bolt WILL BE SEIZED. DO NOT TOUCH THE BOLT. SEE ABOVE. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>. remove knuckle-to-lower arm castle nut, and separate with 2-arm gear >>>>> puller. Any problems/tips here I should be aware of? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Don't use the puller. Use a ball joint fork. BUT... BUT... only use ONE >>>>TINE of the ball joint fork so that the rubber boot on the ball joint is >>>>not damaged. Slip ONE TINE of the fork in between the control arm and the >>>>knuckle (not the side closest to the brake rotor, but the other side which >>>>is close to the engine). Loosen the castle nut, do not remove it yet. >>>>Whack your pickle fork and it will pop the tapered ball joint stud out, >>>>without damaging the rubber boot. Now remove the castle nut. If you don't >>>>have a ball joint fork, a nice big, fat, rampy cold chisel will work just >>>>as well in the same manner as above. Don't piss around with a puller. >>> >>>i completely disagree. what you're suggesting is both bad for the car >>>and dangerous for theoperator. use the proper tool. it's not expensive >>>and is /way/ safer. not to mention the cost savings of not fixing a >>>screwed up swivel or boot. >>> >> >> >> You can use the pickle fork succesfully on the 1986/1989 Accord without >> any damage. You can also use a good cold chisel with the same good results. >> The puller lugs won't hold well on the lower control arm. Plus you will have >> to whack the control arm with a hammer when the puller can't be tightened >> any more. Been there on a 3Gee. Don't piss with a puller. > > then you weren't using the correct tool! > >> >> >>>> >>>>>. pull knuckle outward, removing draveshaft outboard joint from knuckle >>>>> with a plastic hammer. Q: Can it be stuck to where it just won't come >>>>> out? If so, how best to get it out... >>>> >>>> >>>>See above re: now jack up the car. Use a regular steel hammer. It has more >>>>weight behind it and the drive shaft steel is really tough. It takes a lot >>>>of muscle and some real big time hammering to damage that steel. I've >>>>whacked out those shafts and didn't even mark the steel! >>> >>>then you weren't hitting very hard and got real lucky. when those >>>things get damaged, they get /real/ expensive, not to mention very >>>inconvenient. >> >> >> No luck. Just common sense that worked. > > dude, you've clearly never worked on many siezed joints. if you had, > you'd know that the correct tool has the job done in 2 minutes, and that > a fudge like you describe can take hours, not counting repair of damaged > parts and personal injury. $60 for the right tool is /so/ cheap. > >> >> >>>> >>>> >>>>>. pry out the inboard driveshaft assembly with a screwdriver (forcing inner >>>>> set ring past inner groove in differential); Q: Does it always just 'pop >>>>> right out'? I'd hate to get stuck at this point! >>>> >>>> >>>>If you have gotten this far, that will be a piece of cake. This is the >>>>easy part! If your screwdriver has good "purchase" and good leverage >>>>(moving the earth again!) it will POP! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>On putting in the rebuilt axles, the only thing that worries me is getting >>>>>the inner driveshaft assembly, with its new set ring, to properly seat >>>>>within the differential. Has anyone experience special problems with this >>>>>task? >>>> >>>> >>>>A rag, a two by four, and your hammer will knock the suckers right in! Put >>>>the rag between the rubber boot and the two by four then knock it in with >>>>the hammer. You will feel it seat. >>> >>>no!!! /never/ hammer them in. they should pop in with hand pressure. >>>if they don't, they're not seated right. sometimes a little grease on >>>the retaining ring helps keep it centered so it goes in first time. >>>hammering brinells the d/s bearings and the diff bearings. don't do it. >>> >> >> >> In a nice garage with a hoist, sure hand pressure works. But in a lousy garage >> and akward conditions, carefull common sense and lumber (soft wood) makes >> things easier. I always use grease on the clip, the spline, and the groove >> in the seal. >> >> I rebuilt a transmission once. Talk about brinelling! > > why does that not surprise me? Your assuming that the brinelling was my fault. It was not. It was the fault the ENGINEERS who desgined the transmission! Plus it must have been a bad day in Yokahoma when the transmission was built because the guy who put it together forgot to tighten the reverse gear nut. Fortunately, he did stake the nut. > >> >> >>>>M.A. Stewart (don't email cf005... sorry...elm filter bounces all incoming >>>>email!) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>I guess what I'm looking for is a lot of people to say, Hey - it'll be a >>>>>breeze - you can do it! If I could afford to have my car towed, I would dive >>>>>right in and just do it, but I'm really on the edge right now, so just >>>>>maximizing my chances of getting these rebuilds in with as few problems as >>>>>possible :) >>>>> >>>>>Any help/tips/sharing-of-experiences greatly appreciated. >>>>>-ed >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> > |
Re: axle R&R on '86 Honda Accord
jim beam (nospam@example.net) writes: > M.A. Stewart wrote: >> jim beam (nospam@example.net) writes: >> >>>M.A. Stewart wrote: >>> >>>>"glenn" (lunaqua@gmail.com) writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi. I'm caught in the old bind of being too poor to get a car that doesn't >>>>>need constant repairs, because my only car needs constant repairs, thus >>>>>keeping me too poor to get a car that... you know. >>>>> >>>>>Anyway, my '86 Honda Accord DX (manual trans, 155000 miles) might get me >>>>>another year's service if I can just get the CV joints fixed, which I will >>>>>be attempting this week. Got rebuilt axles on eBay (great price, no core >>>>>bother, but always a gamble, of course) and plan to put them in myself in a >>>>>few days, and wanted to ask if anyone has specific advice on the job. >>>>> >>>>>I've read all the horror stories on the web, most to do with rust-welded >>>>>spindle nuts, which I don't think will be a factor as I don't live in the >>>>>mid-west (the 'rust belt'). The job is fairly simple, composed of the steps: >>>>> >>>>>. loosen wheel lug nuts, raise on jack stands, remove spindle nut. >>>>> I plan to use WD-40 or some other penetrating oil on the spindle >>>>> nut to help, locking the wheel with a pry bar while using a breaker >>>>> bar (with pipe extension if necessary) to loosen the spindle nut, >>>>> but would appreciate any tips anyone has; (or if your own experience >>>>> tells you I shouldn't be attempting this, let me know too). >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Loosen spindle nut FIRST (wheels on the ground, tranny in first gear, >>>>parking brake on). Chisel back the locking tab on the nut before loosening >>>>the nut. If the shafts are original, you should be able to loosen it with >>>>a 2 foot cheater pipe on your breaker bar. If some clown had the shafts >>>>out before and used an impact wrench to put the spindle nut back on, it >>>>may be over torqued. If that is the case, you will need a 5 foot cheater >>>>pipe on your breaker bar. Remember... with a big enough lever and a sturdy >>>>fulcrum, you too can move the Earth! >>>> >>>>Loosen the nut so it is flush with the end of the shaft. Bang on it a bit >>>>with a hammer (steel hammer) to get the shaft moving out of the hub a >>>>little bit. Look close between bangs to see if the shaft is moving inward >>>>toward the car. Now jack up the car and remove the wheels etc.. >>> >>>/never/ use a steel hammer on bearings!!! >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>. drain tranny oil. Only question I have here is that it takes a >>>>>square-drive >>>>> wrench - does anyone know offhand what the size is? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>The square end of a socket extension fits nice and does the job. I forget >>>>if it is the 3/8 inch or the 1/2 inch extension that fits. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>. remove damper fork. >>>> >>>> >>>>No... NO.... N O ! ! ! ! DO NOT REMOVE THE FORK! Unless you are 100% sure >>>>that the bolt which goes through the rubber bushing on the lower control >>>>arm is NOT SEIZED... do not touch it! And I mean 100% sure! In North >>>>America where it snows, that bolt will be seized. You don't want to twist >>>>off the head of the bolt. The inner joint is always disassembled, and the >>>>shaft (minus the needle bearings) is puzzled through the fork. It is a >>>>little messy, and a pain in the ass, but it is MUCH easier (and CHEAPER) >>>>than cutting out the lower control arms with a torch and buying new lower >>>>control arms! >>> >>>well, the official way is to remove the fork. i luckily live in >>>california and can take the fork off my 89 no problems whatsoever. sure >>>makes life easier. >>> >>>but this is all academic - the op only need pop the lower swivel to have >>>enough room to get the driveshaft out. >> >> >> Not on the 1986/1989 Accord. The inner joint will not fit through fork! The >> fork has to be removed (not advised if the bolt is siezed) or the inner >> joint disassembled. > > i'm not talking completely about removing the axle, just getting > sufficient clearance to pop the ends frm the diff. > >> >> >>>>Cleanliness is next to godly. Be careful not to contaminate your inner >>>>joint guts with dirt! >>>> >>>>You will need to get two new inner joint large boot clamps before you >>>>start the job. Maybe you were lucky and the CV joint rebuilder put an >>>>extra clamp into the box for you! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Question: how difficult? There are 2 bolts - are >>>>> they likely to be seized or rusted together? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>If the car has been driven in the snow (where salt is used on the road), >>>>the lower fork bolt WILL BE SEIZED. DO NOT TOUCH THE BOLT. SEE ABOVE. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>. remove knuckle-to-lower arm castle nut, and separate with 2-arm gear >>>>> puller. Any problems/tips here I should be aware of? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Don't use the puller. Use a ball joint fork. BUT... BUT... only use ONE >>>>TINE of the ball joint fork so that the rubber boot on the ball joint is >>>>not damaged. Slip ONE TINE of the fork in between the control arm and the >>>>knuckle (not the side closest to the brake rotor, but the other side which >>>>is close to the engine). Loosen the castle nut, do not remove it yet. >>>>Whack your pickle fork and it will pop the tapered ball joint stud out, >>>>without damaging the rubber boot. Now remove the castle nut. If you don't >>>>have a ball joint fork, a nice big, fat, rampy cold chisel will work just >>>>as well in the same manner as above. Don't piss around with a puller. >>> >>>i completely disagree. what you're suggesting is both bad for the car >>>and dangerous for theoperator. use the proper tool. it's not expensive >>>and is /way/ safer. not to mention the cost savings of not fixing a >>>screwed up swivel or boot. >>> >> >> >> You can use the pickle fork succesfully on the 1986/1989 Accord without >> any damage. You can also use a good cold chisel with the same good results. >> The puller lugs won't hold well on the lower control arm. Plus you will have >> to whack the control arm with a hammer when the puller can't be tightened >> any more. Been there on a 3Gee. Don't piss with a puller. > > then you weren't using the correct tool! > >> >> >>>> >>>>>. pull knuckle outward, removing draveshaft outboard joint from knuckle >>>>> with a plastic hammer. Q: Can it be stuck to where it just won't come >>>>> out? If so, how best to get it out... >>>> >>>> >>>>See above re: now jack up the car. Use a regular steel hammer. It has more >>>>weight behind it and the drive shaft steel is really tough. It takes a lot >>>>of muscle and some real big time hammering to damage that steel. I've >>>>whacked out those shafts and didn't even mark the steel! >>> >>>then you weren't hitting very hard and got real lucky. when those >>>things get damaged, they get /real/ expensive, not to mention very >>>inconvenient. >> >> >> No luck. Just common sense that worked. > > dude, you've clearly never worked on many siezed joints. if you had, > you'd know that the correct tool has the job done in 2 minutes, and that > a fudge like you describe can take hours, not counting repair of damaged > parts and personal injury. $60 for the right tool is /so/ cheap. > >> >> >>>> >>>> >>>>>. pry out the inboard driveshaft assembly with a screwdriver (forcing inner >>>>> set ring past inner groove in differential); Q: Does it always just 'pop >>>>> right out'? I'd hate to get stuck at this point! >>>> >>>> >>>>If you have gotten this far, that will be a piece of cake. This is the >>>>easy part! If your screwdriver has good "purchase" and good leverage >>>>(moving the earth again!) it will POP! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>On putting in the rebuilt axles, the only thing that worries me is getting >>>>>the inner driveshaft assembly, with its new set ring, to properly seat >>>>>within the differential. Has anyone experience special problems with this >>>>>task? >>>> >>>> >>>>A rag, a two by four, and your hammer will knock the suckers right in! Put >>>>the rag between the rubber boot and the two by four then knock it in with >>>>the hammer. You will feel it seat. >>> >>>no!!! /never/ hammer them in. they should pop in with hand pressure. >>>if they don't, they're not seated right. sometimes a little grease on >>>the retaining ring helps keep it centered so it goes in first time. >>>hammering brinells the d/s bearings and the diff bearings. don't do it. >>> >> >> >> In a nice garage with a hoist, sure hand pressure works. But in a lousy garage >> and akward conditions, carefull common sense and lumber (soft wood) makes >> things easier. I always use grease on the clip, the spline, and the groove >> in the seal. >> >> I rebuilt a transmission once. Talk about brinelling! > > why does that not surprise me? Your assuming that the brinelling was my fault. It was not. It was the fault the ENGINEERS who desgined the transmission! Plus it must have been a bad day in Yokahoma when the transmission was built because the guy who put it together forgot to tighten the reverse gear nut. Fortunately, he did stake the nut. > >> >> >>>>M.A. Stewart (don't email cf005... sorry...elm filter bounces all incoming >>>>email!) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>I guess what I'm looking for is a lot of people to say, Hey - it'll be a >>>>>breeze - you can do it! If I could afford to have my car towed, I would dive >>>>>right in and just do it, but I'm really on the edge right now, so just >>>>>maximizing my chances of getting these rebuilds in with as few problems as >>>>>possible :) >>>>> >>>>>Any help/tips/sharing-of-experiences greatly appreciated. >>>>>-ed >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> > |
Re: axle R&R on '86 Honda Accord
"T L via CarKB.com" (u10197@uwe) writes: > If the ball joint is that stuck in the taper, and the proper tool is > unavailable or doesn't work, I have resorted to a pickle fork for tie rod > ends on my 87 prelude. The angle of the forks is much steeper, and the > opening of the forks is much narrower than the ball joint pickle forks out > there. And I got lucky and did not destroy the rubber boot on the ball joint. > > > On the 87 'lude, I did disassemble the inner joint, then reassembled after > running the shaft through the fork. I am located in Winnipeg, much salt and > rust up here Rust in Winnipeg? That is nothing compared to the rust in Montreal! 87 `ludes Dude, use Fred Flintstone brakes in Montreal today! > so I didn't even want to try loosening the nuts on the steering > fork. I don't think its crazy to do that, but based on the info you provided, > you did the right thing. > > t > > glenn wrote: >>> Hi. I'm caught in the old bind of being too poor to get a car that doesn't >>> need constant repairs, because my only car needs constant repairs, thus >>[quoted text clipped - 51 lines] |
Re: axle R&R on '86 Honda Accord
"T L via CarKB.com" (u10197@uwe) writes: > If the ball joint is that stuck in the taper, and the proper tool is > unavailable or doesn't work, I have resorted to a pickle fork for tie rod > ends on my 87 prelude. The angle of the forks is much steeper, and the > opening of the forks is much narrower than the ball joint pickle forks out > there. And I got lucky and did not destroy the rubber boot on the ball joint. > > > On the 87 'lude, I did disassemble the inner joint, then reassembled after > running the shaft through the fork. I am located in Winnipeg, much salt and > rust up here Rust in Winnipeg? That is nothing compared to the rust in Montreal! 87 `ludes Dude, use Fred Flintstone brakes in Montreal today! > so I didn't even want to try loosening the nuts on the steering > fork. I don't think its crazy to do that, but based on the info you provided, > you did the right thing. > > t > > glenn wrote: >>> Hi. I'm caught in the old bind of being too poor to get a car that doesn't >>> need constant repairs, because my only car needs constant repairs, thus >>[quoted text clipped - 51 lines] |
Re: axle R&R on '86 Honda Accord
M.A. Stewart wrote:
<snip> > > Your assuming that the brinelling was my fault. It was not. It was the fault > the ENGINEERS who desgined the transmission! Plus it must have been a bad day > in Yokahoma when the transmission was built because the guy who put it > together forgot to tighten the reverse gear nut. Fortunately, he did stake > the nut. > you don't "design" brinelling. it's not a factory assembly error. it's the result of excess force at some subsequent time. period. and "loose" is a feature of bearing wear, not factory. all this points in the same direction... |
Re: axle R&R on '86 Honda Accord
M.A. Stewart wrote:
<snip> > > Your assuming that the brinelling was my fault. It was not. It was the fault > the ENGINEERS who desgined the transmission! Plus it must have been a bad day > in Yokahoma when the transmission was built because the guy who put it > together forgot to tighten the reverse gear nut. Fortunately, he did stake > the nut. > you don't "design" brinelling. it's not a factory assembly error. it's the result of excess force at some subsequent time. period. and "loose" is a feature of bearing wear, not factory. all this points in the same direction... |
Re: axle R&R on '86 Honda Accord
"TeGGeR®" (tegger@tegger.c0m) writes: > cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart) wrote in > news:djcio0$gbf$1@theodyn.ncf.ca: > >> >> "TeGGeR®" (tegger@tegger.c0m) writes: > > > <snip> > > >> If by hacksaw... use quality blades. >> >>> >>> >>> I was wondering about that. I don't know how hard the sleeves are, >>> which will be what makes the difference. >> >> Do you have any of the old sleeves around from your rear end job? Slap >> them in a vice and saw away to see how they cut. > > > No, I don't have them any more. I took some pics, kept them around for a > few week, then tossed them during a fit of housekeeping zeal. > > I guess I could just buy a new one ($15 or so), and try cutting that up. > $15 would be an acceptable price to avoid nightmares later on. In fact, I'm > going to do just that. > I don't know what the best hacksaw blades in the world are. I have a Sandvik blade that surprisingly cuts fast and smooth. The teeth are very sharp, and stayed sharp for a long time. > > > > -- > TeGGeR® > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ > www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: axle R&R on '86 Honda Accord
"TeGGeR®" (tegger@tegger.c0m) writes: > cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart) wrote in > news:djcio0$gbf$1@theodyn.ncf.ca: > >> >> "TeGGeR®" (tegger@tegger.c0m) writes: > > > <snip> > > >> If by hacksaw... use quality blades. >> >>> >>> >>> I was wondering about that. I don't know how hard the sleeves are, >>> which will be what makes the difference. >> >> Do you have any of the old sleeves around from your rear end job? Slap >> them in a vice and saw away to see how they cut. > > > No, I don't have them any more. I took some pics, kept them around for a > few week, then tossed them during a fit of housekeeping zeal. > > I guess I could just buy a new one ($15 or so), and try cutting that up. > $15 would be an acceptable price to avoid nightmares later on. In fact, I'm > going to do just that. > I don't know what the best hacksaw blades in the world are. I have a Sandvik blade that surprisingly cuts fast and smooth. The teeth are very sharp, and stayed sharp for a long time. > > > > -- > TeGGeR® > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ > www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: axle R&R on '86 Honda Accord
"TeGGeR®" (tegger@tegger.c0m) writes: > cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart) wrote in > news:djci7h$g6l$1@theodyn.ncf.ca: > >> >> "TeGGeR®" (tegger@tegger.c0m) writes: > > <snip> > > >>> Exactly where would you knock? >>> >> >> On the end of the wood. Insert the splined part of the inner joint >> into the diff.. Push hard. Knock it the rest of the way in with the >> hammer and chunk of wood to seat it. Not much hammer force is needed. >> The wood is bearing on the inner joint. The rag and the wood prevent >> damage to the rubber boot. > > > > It makes sense now. > > I didn't know the inner joint would not fit through the damper fork. Never > replaced driveshafts before. Never had to. > Inner and outer joints on a 3Gee won't fit. As for you car I don't know. Maybe ask people around your location who have R&Red shafts on your model of car. > > >> >> I like to put a little bit wheel bearing grease on the spring clip so >> as to suspend the clip concentrically to the center of the shaft >> (splined stub of the inner joint). It gives even compression all the >> way around the clip as it engages the side gear taper. >> >>> I'm starting to get a vibration on acceleration. >> >> Lay out the details of the vibrations. We can only assume that it is >> not the Beach Boys type of vibrations :-> > > > > Unfortunately not the Beach Boys kind. > > 1) The steering wheel waggles slowly 1/4 to 1/2 inch on hard acceleration > as very low speeds. > 2) During *acceleration* at highway speeds, the steering wheel vibrates at > almost all speeds, but then stops once you are coasting or decelerating, > which I understand is a classic inner CV joint symptom. > > More: > 1) Tires are old and worn. When you run your hand over the tread, three > seem to be worn reasonably evenly, with little feathering apparent. One has > excesssive outer rib wear, seemingly due to excessive toe that existed on > the rear before I replaced the bushings and had the car realigned. > 2) There is one bent wheel that has been that way for 13 years. It > contributes to the 60-70mph vibration at highway speeds when that wheel is > on the front. I have a spare wheel and will replace bent one in the spring. > 3) Front bushings are very worn and saggy. Perhaps they are allowing > excessive suspension movement? > > Mechanic insists my inner CV joints are fine, that the problem is most > likely the tires. > > Inner and outer CV joint boots have never split. I've always had the outer > boots replaced at the first sign of cracking. > > How can I test the inner CV joints on-the-car (without a hoist) myself? By feel maybe, comparing to a new Honda shaft? > > > > -- > TeGGeR® > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ > www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: axle R&R on '86 Honda Accord
"TeGGeR®" (tegger@tegger.c0m) writes: > cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart) wrote in > news:djci7h$g6l$1@theodyn.ncf.ca: > >> >> "TeGGeR®" (tegger@tegger.c0m) writes: > > <snip> > > >>> Exactly where would you knock? >>> >> >> On the end of the wood. Insert the splined part of the inner joint >> into the diff.. Push hard. Knock it the rest of the way in with the >> hammer and chunk of wood to seat it. Not much hammer force is needed. >> The wood is bearing on the inner joint. The rag and the wood prevent >> damage to the rubber boot. > > > > It makes sense now. > > I didn't know the inner joint would not fit through the damper fork. Never > replaced driveshafts before. Never had to. > Inner and outer joints on a 3Gee won't fit. As for you car I don't know. Maybe ask people around your location who have R&Red shafts on your model of car. > > >> >> I like to put a little bit wheel bearing grease on the spring clip so >> as to suspend the clip concentrically to the center of the shaft >> (splined stub of the inner joint). It gives even compression all the >> way around the clip as it engages the side gear taper. >> >>> I'm starting to get a vibration on acceleration. >> >> Lay out the details of the vibrations. We can only assume that it is >> not the Beach Boys type of vibrations :-> > > > > Unfortunately not the Beach Boys kind. > > 1) The steering wheel waggles slowly 1/4 to 1/2 inch on hard acceleration > as very low speeds. > 2) During *acceleration* at highway speeds, the steering wheel vibrates at > almost all speeds, but then stops once you are coasting or decelerating, > which I understand is a classic inner CV joint symptom. > > More: > 1) Tires are old and worn. When you run your hand over the tread, three > seem to be worn reasonably evenly, with little feathering apparent. One has > excesssive outer rib wear, seemingly due to excessive toe that existed on > the rear before I replaced the bushings and had the car realigned. > 2) There is one bent wheel that has been that way for 13 years. It > contributes to the 60-70mph vibration at highway speeds when that wheel is > on the front. I have a spare wheel and will replace bent one in the spring. > 3) Front bushings are very worn and saggy. Perhaps they are allowing > excessive suspension movement? > > Mechanic insists my inner CV joints are fine, that the problem is most > likely the tires. > > Inner and outer CV joint boots have never split. I've always had the outer > boots replaced at the first sign of cracking. > > How can I test the inner CV joints on-the-car (without a hoist) myself? By feel maybe, comparing to a new Honda shaft? > > > > -- > TeGGeR® > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ > www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: axle R&R on '86 Honda Accord
M.A. Stewart wrote:
> Loosen spindle nut FIRST (wheels on the ground, tranny in first gear, > parking brake on). Chisel back the locking tab on the nut before loosening > the nut. If the shafts are original, you should be able to loosen it with > a 2 foot cheater pipe on your breaker bar. If some clown had the shafts > out before and used an impact wrench to put the spindle nut back on, it > may be over torqued. If that is the case, you will need a 5 foot cheater > pipe on your breaker bar. Remember... with a big enough lever and a sturdy > fulcrum, you too can move the Earth! I had to that on my Accord... four-foot cheater and I had to stand on it, and bounce a bit to crack the nut. >>. remove damper fork. > > > No... NO.... N O ! ! ! ! DO NOT REMOVE THE FORK! Unless you are 100% sure > that the bolt which goes through the rubber bushing on the lower control > arm is NOT SEIZED... do not touch it! And I mean 100% sure! In North > America where it snows, that bolt will be seized. You don't want to twist > off the head of the bolt. The inner joint is always disassembled, and the > shaft (minus the needle bearings) is puzzled through the fork. It is a > little messy, and a pain in the ass, but it is MUCH easier (and CHEAPER) > than cutting out the lower control arms with a torch and buying new lower > control arms! I'll go along with that... I found the bolt was so solidly 'welded' into the rubber bushing that I could crank it almost a complete turn without it coming loose, the bushing just stretching with it. It did eventually come loose, with a lot of alternating twisting and hammering on the end of the bolt. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0542-5, 10/21/2005 Tested on: 10/23/2005 1:43:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
Re: axle R&R on '86 Honda Accord
M.A. Stewart wrote:
> Loosen spindle nut FIRST (wheels on the ground, tranny in first gear, > parking brake on). Chisel back the locking tab on the nut before loosening > the nut. If the shafts are original, you should be able to loosen it with > a 2 foot cheater pipe on your breaker bar. If some clown had the shafts > out before and used an impact wrench to put the spindle nut back on, it > may be over torqued. If that is the case, you will need a 5 foot cheater > pipe on your breaker bar. Remember... with a big enough lever and a sturdy > fulcrum, you too can move the Earth! I had to that on my Accord... four-foot cheater and I had to stand on it, and bounce a bit to crack the nut. >>. remove damper fork. > > > No... NO.... N O ! ! ! ! DO NOT REMOVE THE FORK! Unless you are 100% sure > that the bolt which goes through the rubber bushing on the lower control > arm is NOT SEIZED... do not touch it! And I mean 100% sure! In North > America where it snows, that bolt will be seized. You don't want to twist > off the head of the bolt. The inner joint is always disassembled, and the > shaft (minus the needle bearings) is puzzled through the fork. It is a > little messy, and a pain in the ass, but it is MUCH easier (and CHEAPER) > than cutting out the lower control arms with a torch and buying new lower > control arms! I'll go along with that... I found the bolt was so solidly 'welded' into the rubber bushing that I could crank it almost a complete turn without it coming loose, the bushing just stretching with it. It did eventually come loose, with a lot of alternating twisting and hammering on the end of the bolt. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0542-5, 10/21/2005 Tested on: 10/23/2005 1:43:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
Re: axle R&R on '86 Honda Accord
"Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:kdN6f.465$Rl1.310@newsread1.news.pas.earthlin k.net: > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote <snip> > > Plus I presume the extension of the car body's life justifies the > cost. (About what do you pay each year for this treatment?) $110Cdn (about $90 US) per application. The car's had it done every single year since new. I've started doing it in the spring as well, so twice per year. Also I do regular touchups with a spray-can in especially vulnerable areas. I figured if I didn't do it, the car would fall apart and I'd need to spend $2,000 at a bodyshop anyway... > > One of the things that I think will be limiting on my car is the > undercarriage rusting out so badly that I can't jack the sides up but > instead can only do the ends. I've got no rust anywhere. Jack points are like new. Part of that is diligence by me apart from the rustproofing. Just a month ago I got rid of some surface rust that was starting in the rear wheel wells at the bottom right where they meet the rocker panels and form the wheel well lips. It ground off back to bare steel easily. I applied zinc primer and paint, using a heat gun for ten minutes to cure the paint quickly. After that some rubber-based undercoat covered up the paint as protection from stone chips. > >> Northeastern US states could benefit greatly from this, yet it's not >> sold there. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> I'm going to be doing the fronts next year. I was just going to >> >> >> saw the bolts and sleeves apart on either side of the bushing >> >> >> if they wouldn't >> >> > come >> >> >> loose. >> >> > >> >> > What kind of saw? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I was wondering about that. I don't know how hard the sleeves are, >> >> which will be what makes the difference. There's room for a >> >> hacksaw in between the flanges, >> > >> > It's tight. Worse, my hacksaw was not very effective. Have several >> > new blades handy. If you're not getting anywhere after an hour, I'd >> > urge trying something else. >> >> >> >> Hm. Not good. > > Well, I'm only an amateur. All of the regulars here have more > experience than I. You got much farther than I did on the first part > of your Integra's suspension job (of course!). What I thought of later today was not to buy a bushing to dissect, but instead to call a machine shop supply place on Monday. The metal used for the sleeves can't be much harder than hard stainless steel, or much harder than a metric 10.9 bolt. You'd think a machine shop supply place would know how to cut through hard stuff without power tools. Stay tuned... > >> >> but I don't know about a reciprocating saw (Sawzall). Would a >> >> reciprocating saw risk too much damage to surrounding components? >> > >> > Even if you can get it in where you want to cut, I'm not sure it >> > will actually cut easily through that steel. >> > >> > I don't think I've seen a good solution for this yet. >> >> >> Probably why my mechanic refused to consider doing the work. > > Interesting. Yeah. He says it takes hours and hours, I wouldn't want to pay for all that labor, and he wouldn't want to tie up his shop for that. -- TeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
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