Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...
 

"Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in news:5E33i.22454
$V75.3804@edtnps89:

>
> "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
> news:Xns993342C45E1BCtegger@207.14.116.130...
>>
>> Tried that. Doesn't work if the pads are bad.
>
> Interesting.
>
>


I tried and failed to take descriptive photos of my rear discs, whose
friction surfaces resemble the dark gray coating worn by a rifle barrel.

The fronts had patchy glaze, where the outline of the pads was imprinted
over and over again in an irregular pattern around the disc, some lighter,
some heavier.

I had some serious front brake vibration. A check with a dial gauge showed
the discs to be dead true, and yet I had a high-speed vibration. The only
conclusion I can come to at this point (surely to be opposed by some
others...) is that the glaze caused sufficient frictional differences as to
cause steering wheel wobble ("vibration").


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...
 

What components do you put the anti-seize on? I only put this on the
two caliper bolts. For the shims of the brake pads I only use the
Molykote which is supplied with the OEM pads. I have yet to have this
happen on my rotors and they have 116k miles on them.


Nick

On Wed, 16 May 2007 13:11:56 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m>
wrote:

>I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read
>it.
>
>I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti-
>seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent
>corrosion and seizure of various parts.
>
>Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I
>have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a
>smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve.
>You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to
>machine the rotors.
>
>Why was this happening? And why so intermittently? Over the last few
>years or so (I'm a slow learner...), I've been observing other people's
>brakes through the open-spoke wheels that are common these days, and
>have noticed that just about nobody has glaze, just lonely ol' me.
>Obviously it must be something I'm doing wrong.
>
>Then, this last weekend (Mother's Day weekend), I decided to do my
>annual brake "spring cleaning". While pulling things apart, sanding,
>greasing, chopping, slicing, dicing and julienning, I noticed the rotors
>had glazed up, AGAIN! Something made me study the pads closely. To my
>surprise and alarm, I noticed the pads showed signs of oil seepage and
>absorption. The absorption areas closely coincided with the glaze on
>the rotors. The absorption areas also coincided with where I had been
>most lavish with the anti-seize grease. Worse, the rear disc brakes
>showed the same symptoms.
>
>It appears on deeper investigation that anti-seizes of all kinds contain
>very light oils that creep readily when heated. And boy do they creep.
>This is only a theory right now, but I'm suspecting the oil soaks into
>the friction material, softening it so it smears on the rotors.
>
>I replaced all the pads and rotors this spring with brand-new OEM. ($$$)
>The ONLY grease I put this time was under the pad slide shims, between
>them and the mount bracket, and sparingly, at that. And this time I used
>a high-temp silicone lube, Sil-Glyde.
>
>In the fall of 2007, I'll see what the rotors look like and report back
>here.
>
>If anybody has been following my advice had has also experienced rotor
>glaze, please let me know.
>
>This page has been updated to reflect my new findings.
>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes2.html

Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...
 

What components do you put the anti-seize on? I only put this on the
two caliper bolts. For the shims of the brake pads I only use the
Molykote which is supplied with the OEM pads. I have yet to have this
happen on my rotors and they have 116k miles on them.


Nick

On Wed, 16 May 2007 13:11:56 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m>
wrote:

>I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read
>it.
>
>I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti-
>seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent
>corrosion and seizure of various parts.
>
>Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I
>have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a
>smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve.
>You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to
>machine the rotors.
>
>Why was this happening? And why so intermittently? Over the last few
>years or so (I'm a slow learner...), I've been observing other people's
>brakes through the open-spoke wheels that are common these days, and
>have noticed that just about nobody has glaze, just lonely ol' me.
>Obviously it must be something I'm doing wrong.
>
>Then, this last weekend (Mother's Day weekend), I decided to do my
>annual brake "spring cleaning". While pulling things apart, sanding,
>greasing, chopping, slicing, dicing and julienning, I noticed the rotors
>had glazed up, AGAIN! Something made me study the pads closely. To my
>surprise and alarm, I noticed the pads showed signs of oil seepage and
>absorption. The absorption areas closely coincided with the glaze on
>the rotors. The absorption areas also coincided with where I had been
>most lavish with the anti-seize grease. Worse, the rear disc brakes
>showed the same symptoms.
>
>It appears on deeper investigation that anti-seizes of all kinds contain
>very light oils that creep readily when heated. And boy do they creep.
>This is only a theory right now, but I'm suspecting the oil soaks into
>the friction material, softening it so it smears on the rotors.
>
>I replaced all the pads and rotors this spring with brand-new OEM. ($$$)
>The ONLY grease I put this time was under the pad slide shims, between
>them and the mount bracket, and sparingly, at that. And this time I used
>a high-temp silicone lube, Sil-Glyde.
>
>In the fall of 2007, I'll see what the rotors look like and report back
>here.
>
>If anybody has been following my advice had has also experienced rotor
>glaze, please let me know.
>
>This page has been updated to reflect my new findings.
>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes2.html

Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...
 

Tegger wrote:
> "Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in news:5E33i.22454
> $V75.3804@edtnps89:
>
>> "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
>> news:Xns993342C45E1BCtegger@207.14.116.130...
>>> Tried that. Doesn't work if the pads are bad.
>> Interesting.
>>
>>
>
>
> I tried and failed to take descriptive photos of my rear discs, whose
> friction surfaces resemble the dark gray coating worn by a rifle barrel.
>
> The fronts had patchy glaze, where the outline of the pads was imprinted
> over and over again in an irregular pattern around the disc, some lighter,
> some heavier.
>
> I had some serious front brake vibration. A check with a dial gauge showed
> the discs to be dead true, and yet I had a high-speed vibration. The only
> conclusion I can come to at this point (surely to be opposed by some
> others...) is that the glaze caused sufficient frictional differences as to
> cause steering wheel wobble ("vibration").
>
>
be in no doubt, if you have that kind of surface contamination, that can
/definitely/ cause vibration.

Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...
 

Tegger wrote:
> "Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in news:5E33i.22454
> $V75.3804@edtnps89:
>
>> "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
>> news:Xns993342C45E1BCtegger@207.14.116.130...
>>> Tried that. Doesn't work if the pads are bad.
>> Interesting.
>>
>>
>
>
> I tried and failed to take descriptive photos of my rear discs, whose
> friction surfaces resemble the dark gray coating worn by a rifle barrel.
>
> The fronts had patchy glaze, where the outline of the pads was imprinted
> over and over again in an irregular pattern around the disc, some lighter,
> some heavier.
>
> I had some serious front brake vibration. A check with a dial gauge showed
> the discs to be dead true, and yet I had a high-speed vibration. The only
> conclusion I can come to at this point (surely to be opposed by some
> others...) is that the glaze caused sufficient frictional differences as to
> cause steering wheel wobble ("vibration").
>
>
be in no doubt, if you have that kind of surface contamination, that can
/definitely/ cause vibration.

Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...
 

Tegger wrote:
> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
> news:e-GdnU-K2fk8mNbbnZ2dnUVZ_tmknZ2d@speakeasy.net:
>
>
>> two comments!
>>
>> 1. that's why you've never experienced brake judder!
>
>
>
> I have, actually. Patchy glaze will cause judder just like warped
> rotors!
>
>
>
>> 2. based on that sil-glyde component list, there's not much high
>> temperature resistance about it.
>
>
>
> I was VERY sparing with the silicone. If it creeps, I'll know.
>
> Sil-Glyde does not creep or melt at 150F, though, so I might get lucky
> here.
>
>
>> if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you
>> find an economic source of it, let me know!
>>
>
>
> I see what you mean.
>
> I'm getting told by independent distributors that the smallest container
> Dow sells is a 33oz tub...at $247 Cdn.
>
> My local Acura dealer can sell me a 75g tube (2.5 oz) for $66. They get
> their M77 directly from Honda.
>
> OUCH OUCH OUCH!
>
>
>
for brake rubbers, according to this link
http://www.dowcorning.com/content/au...omotive&DCWSS=
molykote 33 can be used for brake rubbers. which is just as well since
i've used it may times in the past!

anyway, the point is that it's relatively readily available and
relatively affordable for the true silicone brake grease addicts.

Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...
 

Tegger wrote:
> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
> news:e-GdnU-K2fk8mNbbnZ2dnUVZ_tmknZ2d@speakeasy.net:
>
>
>> two comments!
>>
>> 1. that's why you've never experienced brake judder!
>
>
>
> I have, actually. Patchy glaze will cause judder just like warped
> rotors!
>
>
>
>> 2. based on that sil-glyde component list, there's not much high
>> temperature resistance about it.
>
>
>
> I was VERY sparing with the silicone. If it creeps, I'll know.
>
> Sil-Glyde does not creep or melt at 150F, though, so I might get lucky
> here.
>
>
>> if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you
>> find an economic source of it, let me know!
>>
>
>
> I see what you mean.
>
> I'm getting told by independent distributors that the smallest container
> Dow sells is a 33oz tub...at $247 Cdn.
>
> My local Acura dealer can sell me a 75g tube (2.5 oz) for $66. They get
> their M77 directly from Honda.
>
> OUCH OUCH OUCH!
>
>
>
for brake rubbers, according to this link
http://www.dowcorning.com/content/au...omotive&DCWSS=
molykote 33 can be used for brake rubbers. which is just as well since
i've used it may times in the past!

anyway, the point is that it's relatively readily available and
relatively affordable for the true silicone brake grease addicts.

Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...
 

Nick <> wrote in news:psup43prklfjqh3i8o6g66a3ds10a95g04@4ax.com:

> What components do you put the anti-seize on? I only put this on the
> two caliper bolts.



I hope you don't mean the ones that have the rubber boots.


> For the shims of the brake pads I only use the
> Molykote which is supplied with the OEM pads.


And as I keep pointing out, not all models' pads come with shims or
Molykote.


> I have yet to have this
> happen on my rotors and they have 116k miles on them.


Good for you.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...
 

Nick <> wrote in news:psup43prklfjqh3i8o6g66a3ds10a95g04@4ax.com:

> What components do you put the anti-seize on? I only put this on the
> two caliper bolts.



I hope you don't mean the ones that have the rubber boots.


> For the shims of the brake pads I only use the
> Molykote which is supplied with the OEM pads.


And as I keep pointing out, not all models' pads come with shims or
Molykote.


> I have yet to have this
> happen on my rotors and they have 116k miles on them.


Good for you.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...
 

On Fri, 18 May 2007 11:06:33 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m>
wrote:

>Nick <> wrote in news:psup43prklfjqh3i8o6g66a3ds10a95g04@4ax.com:
>
>> What components do you put the anti-seize on? I only put this on the
>> two caliper bolts.
>
>
>
>I hope you don't mean the ones that have the rubber boots.
Yep those are the ones. I find it very difficult to get the bolts off
without applying it.

>


>
>> For the shims of the brake pads I only use the
>> Molykote which is supplied with the OEM pads.
>
>
>And as I keep pointing out, not all models' pads come with shims or
>Molykote.
>
>
>> I have yet to have this
>> happen on my rotors and they have 116k miles on them.
>
>
>Good for you.

Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...
 

On Fri, 18 May 2007 11:06:33 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m>
wrote:

>Nick <> wrote in news:psup43prklfjqh3i8o6g66a3ds10a95g04@4ax.com:
>
>> What components do you put the anti-seize on? I only put this on the
>> two caliper bolts.
>
>
>
>I hope you don't mean the ones that have the rubber boots.
Yep those are the ones. I find it very difficult to get the bolts off
without applying it.

>


>
>> For the shims of the brake pads I only use the
>> Molykote which is supplied with the OEM pads.
>
>
>And as I keep pointing out, not all models' pads come with shims or
>Molykote.
>
>
>> I have yet to have this
>> happen on my rotors and they have 116k miles on them.
>
>
>Good for you.

Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...
 

Tegger wrote:

> =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Trueno@AE86.gts>
> wrote in news:EMP2i.7464$vu2.228@trndny01:
>
>
>>On Wed, 16 May 2007 14:23:41 +0000, Tegger wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you
>>>>find an economic source of it, let me know!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>I see what you mean.
>>>
>>>I'm getting told by independent distributors that the smallest
>>>container Dow sells is a 33oz tub...at $247 Cdn.
>>>
>>>My local Acura dealer can sell me a 75g tube (2.5 oz) for $66. They
>>>get their M77 directly from Honda.
>>
>>
>>http://www.usededmonton.com/classifi...=miscellaneous
>>-for-sale
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Cool. But that can looks like it's kinda old.
>
> Sure it's "new" government surplus, but the government got rid of it for a
> reason...
>


Ha! Here's a life time supply of the stuff...


http://www.ellsworth.com/display/pro...10&Tab=Vendors


JT

Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...
 

Tegger wrote:

> =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Trueno@AE86.gts>
> wrote in news:EMP2i.7464$vu2.228@trndny01:
>
>
>>On Wed, 16 May 2007 14:23:41 +0000, Tegger wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you
>>>>find an economic source of it, let me know!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>I see what you mean.
>>>
>>>I'm getting told by independent distributors that the smallest
>>>container Dow sells is a 33oz tub...at $247 Cdn.
>>>
>>>My local Acura dealer can sell me a 75g tube (2.5 oz) for $66. They
>>>get their M77 directly from Honda.
>>
>>
>>http://www.usededmonton.com/classifi...=miscellaneous
>>-for-sale
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Cool. But that can looks like it's kinda old.
>
> Sure it's "new" government surplus, but the government got rid of it for a
> reason...
>


Ha! Here's a life time supply of the stuff...


http://www.ellsworth.com/display/pro...10&Tab=Vendors


JT

Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...
 

Tegger wrote:

> "Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in news:5E33i.22454
> $V75.3804@edtnps89:
>
>
>>"Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
>>news:Xns993342C45E1BCtegger@207.14.116.130...
>>
>>>Tried that. Doesn't work if the pads are bad.
>>
>> Interesting.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> I tried and failed to take descriptive photos of my rear discs, whose
> friction surfaces resemble the dark gray coating worn by a rifle barrel.
>
> The fronts had patchy glaze, where the outline of the pads was imprinted
> over and over again in an irregular pattern around the disc, some lighter,
> some heavier.
>
> I had some serious front brake vibration. A check with a dial gauge showed
> the discs to be dead true, and yet I had a high-speed vibration. The only
> conclusion I can come to at this point (surely to be opposed by some
> others...) is that the glaze caused sufficient frictional differences as to
> cause steering wheel wobble ("vibration").
>
>


I remember years ago when a friend had an obvious rotor pulse.
Machining the rotors made no difference. Changing pads and replacing
rotors still made no difference.

The whole problem disapeared when he bought a new set of tires...

<shrug>

JT

(Who thinks gearheading leads to unbalanced thinking...sometimes.)

Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...
 

Tegger wrote:

> "Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in news:5E33i.22454
> $V75.3804@edtnps89:
>
>
>>"Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
>>news:Xns993342C45E1BCtegger@207.14.116.130...
>>
>>>Tried that. Doesn't work if the pads are bad.
>>
>> Interesting.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> I tried and failed to take descriptive photos of my rear discs, whose
> friction surfaces resemble the dark gray coating worn by a rifle barrel.
>
> The fronts had patchy glaze, where the outline of the pads was imprinted
> over and over again in an irregular pattern around the disc, some lighter,
> some heavier.
>
> I had some serious front brake vibration. A check with a dial gauge showed
> the discs to be dead true, and yet I had a high-speed vibration. The only
> conclusion I can come to at this point (surely to be opposed by some
> others...) is that the glaze caused sufficient frictional differences as to
> cause steering wheel wobble ("vibration").
>
>


I remember years ago when a friend had an obvious rotor pulse.
Machining the rotors made no difference. Changing pads and replacing
rotors still made no difference.

The whole problem disapeared when he bought a new set of tires...

<shrug>

JT

(Who thinks gearheading leads to unbalanced thinking...sometimes.)