SoCalMike

Elle wrote:
> I'm pretty settled on Kingmotorsports.com 's Mugen bushings.
> I read their site and see their claims that they are Honda
> specialized and the only dealer in North America for Mugen.
> Their front lower control arm bushing set is about ten
> dollars less than the usual online OEM parts places
> (slhonda, Majestic, Team Honda, etc.) I've pretty much
> talked myself out of polyurethane bushings because of the
> noise people report (including, IIRC, J. Beam's experiences)

yes. i replaced lower control arm bushings on an 81 rabbit convertible
with aftermarket urethane bushings. they squeaked like i had a styrofoam
cooler under the hood. i dont remember if i was supposed to lube them or
not.

SoCalMike

Elle wrote:
> I'm pretty settled on Kingmotorsports.com 's Mugen bushings.
> I read their site and see their claims that they are Honda
> specialized and the only dealer in North America for Mugen.
> Their front lower control arm bushing set is about ten
> dollars less than the usual online OEM parts places
> (slhonda, Majestic, Team Honda, etc.) I've pretty much
> talked myself out of polyurethane bushings because of the
> noise people report (including, IIRC, J. Beam's experiences)

yes. i replaced lower control arm bushings on an 81 rabbit convertible
with aftermarket urethane bushings. they squeaked like i had a styrofoam
cooler under the hood. i dont remember if i was supposed to lube them or
not.

Michael Pardee

"SoCalMike" <Mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7KGdnczsoo8x9sDZRVn-og@comcast.com...
>
> yes. i replaced lower control arm bushings on an 81 rabbit convertible
> with aftermarket urethane bushings. they squeaked like i had a styrofoam
> cooler under the hood. i dont remember if i was supposed to lube them or
> not.

The conventional wisdom is that bushings should not be lubricated because it
will affect the "frictional properties" of the bushings. OTOH there is
nothing unusual about bushings with bonded inner and outer sleeves, so....
Anyway Prothane says urethane bushings should be lubricated with their
special lubricant (big surprise!) http://www.prothane.com/pages/faq.html

Google indicates urethane bushing squeaks are a common problem, with at
least one person saying "all urethane bushings squeak."

Mike

Michael Pardee

"SoCalMike" <Mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7KGdnczsoo8x9sDZRVn-og@comcast.com...
>
> yes. i replaced lower control arm bushings on an 81 rabbit convertible
> with aftermarket urethane bushings. they squeaked like i had a styrofoam
> cooler under the hood. i dont remember if i was supposed to lube them or
> not.

The conventional wisdom is that bushings should not be lubricated because it
will affect the "frictional properties" of the bushings. OTOH there is
nothing unusual about bushings with bonded inner and outer sleeves, so....
Anyway Prothane says urethane bushings should be lubricated with their
special lubricant (big surprise!) http://www.prothane.com/pages/faq.html

Google indicates urethane bushing squeaks are a common problem, with at
least one person saying "all urethane bushings squeak."

Mike

Michael Pardee

"SoCalMike" <Mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7KGdnczsoo8x9sDZRVn-og@comcast.com...
>
> yes. i replaced lower control arm bushings on an 81 rabbit convertible
> with aftermarket urethane bushings. they squeaked like i had a styrofoam
> cooler under the hood. i dont remember if i was supposed to lube them or
> not.

The conventional wisdom is that bushings should not be lubricated because it
will affect the "frictional properties" of the bushings. OTOH there is
nothing unusual about bushings with bonded inner and outer sleeves, so....
Anyway Prothane says urethane bushings should be lubricated with their
special lubricant (big surprise!) http://www.prothane.com/pages/faq.html

Google indicates urethane bushing squeaks are a common problem, with at
least one person saying "all urethane bushings squeak."

Mike

Elle

I have successfully removed the larger bushing in a front
lower control arm for a 91 Civic. The final methodology is
not that labor intensive at all.
Here is an outline of the steps for removing the bushings:

1. With the control arm in a vise, //drill// holes in the
rubber bushing all around the circumference. Use three
different size drill bits, smaller to larger. Use cutting
oil. The rubber drills much easier than steel, though.

2. //Press// out the core (= most of the rubber and the
inner-most metal sleeve) using the method described at
http://www.maxcooper.com/rx7/how-to/...lls/index.html

3. //Saw// the outer sleeve using an ordinary hack saw,
making two cuts about 1/4-inch apart. Be careful not to go
all the way through the sleeve into the control arm metal. A
new blade is desirable, though I used a beat up old blade
and it didn't take long. Use cutting oil.

4. //Tap// the 1/4-inch section out using a chisel or really
any old beat up screwdriver and a low-weight hammer. It
comes out pretty easily. A pair of pliers may come in handy
to twist out where you didn't completely saw through. You
can now push the remainder of the outer sleeve out by
tapping around its circumference. Or it literally peels out
with light tapping.

Applying PB Blaster to the outer sleeve area a day or two
before this, as I did, couldn't hurt.

I am not nearly, physically as wiped out as I was after
using my coil spring compressor to replace the springs on my
front suspension. The worst part has been driving around
finding the right sockets for step 2. I got flustered with
the outer metal sleeve and how that figured into this.

Much of the above comes from Ned Buckmaster, who posted in
1999 on this subject at rec.autos.makers.honda . Ned
actually said one could twist out the core part (step 2).
But I had my sockets already (some used, so I couldn't
return them). Alternatively, plenty of folks in the
rec.autos.tech and other auto archives said one could
propane torch out the core. Someone also noted that an EZ
saw (one of those little portable hand-held electric
jigsaws) worked, too.

It's possible that Max Cooper's little
sockets-bolt-nut-washers home-made press might work with
near perfectly-sized sockets and a little heat, like Curly
suggested.

My local junkyard had a bent-up old control arm that the
owner sold me for around $10 (more parts were part of the
deal, so that's just an approximation). I told the guy what
I was doing and he got a kick out of it. Then we proceeded
to haggle the heck out of this, as is now our custom. I
asked how much he was charging me today for the
"entertainment" of his wild reasoning for the price being
such-and-such, and he laughed. I wanted it; he had it. Fair
trade.

Contrast this with the yahoo at another yard who said I'd
never get the bushings out: 'Ya need a 50-ton press.' I
smiled and said, "Perhaps... " ;-)

I also picked up one old pulley bolt washer and several
thick, Grade 8-looking suspension washers lying around the
yard. These washers seemed to be much better for this
project than what Max used. This includes the false starts
where I didn't have things set up right and applied way more
force than necessary for what I was actually trying to
achieve. I bent one suspension washer a bit, but the pulley
bolt washer was tough and is now looking no worse for the
wear.

I've started some photos and hopefully will put this up at
my web site soon.

Onto seeing if I can get the inboard lower control arm bolts
fully out.

My ball joint separator arrives Thursday. Super fast
shipping from that Ebay seller, JTC auto tools, whom Ryan
cited earlier in a link.

I will order new bushings from Kingmotorsports.com soon.
Then, possibly using Grumpy's tip about heating the arm and
Tegger's tip about cooling the bushings, onto full
replacement of the front lower control arm bushings.

Elle

I have successfully removed the larger bushing in a front
lower control arm for a 91 Civic. The final methodology is
not that labor intensive at all.
Here is an outline of the steps for removing the bushings:

1. With the control arm in a vise, //drill// holes in the
rubber bushing all around the circumference. Use three
different size drill bits, smaller to larger. Use cutting
oil. The rubber drills much easier than steel, though.

2. //Press// out the core (= most of the rubber and the
inner-most metal sleeve) using the method described at
http://www.maxcooper.com/rx7/how-to/...lls/index.html

3. //Saw// the outer sleeve using an ordinary hack saw,
making two cuts about 1/4-inch apart. Be careful not to go
all the way through the sleeve into the control arm metal. A
new blade is desirable, though I used a beat up old blade
and it didn't take long. Use cutting oil.

4. //Tap// the 1/4-inch section out using a chisel or really
any old beat up screwdriver and a low-weight hammer. It
comes out pretty easily. A pair of pliers may come in handy
to twist out where you didn't completely saw through. You
can now push the remainder of the outer sleeve out by
tapping around its circumference. Or it literally peels out
with light tapping.

Applying PB Blaster to the outer sleeve area a day or two
before this, as I did, couldn't hurt.

I am not nearly, physically as wiped out as I was after
using my coil spring compressor to replace the springs on my
front suspension. The worst part has been driving around
finding the right sockets for step 2. I got flustered with
the outer metal sleeve and how that figured into this.

Much of the above comes from Ned Buckmaster, who posted in
1999 on this subject at rec.autos.makers.honda . Ned
actually said one could twist out the core part (step 2).
But I had my sockets already (some used, so I couldn't
return them). Alternatively, plenty of folks in the
rec.autos.tech and other auto archives said one could
propane torch out the core. Someone also noted that an EZ
saw (one of those little portable hand-held electric
jigsaws) worked, too.

It's possible that Max Cooper's little
sockets-bolt-nut-washers home-made press might work with
near perfectly-sized sockets and a little heat, like Curly
suggested.

My local junkyard had a bent-up old control arm that the
owner sold me for around $10 (more parts were part of the
deal, so that's just an approximation). I told the guy what
I was doing and he got a kick out of it. Then we proceeded
to haggle the heck out of this, as is now our custom. I
asked how much he was charging me today for the
"entertainment" of his wild reasoning for the price being
such-and-such, and he laughed. I wanted it; he had it. Fair
trade.

Contrast this with the yahoo at another yard who said I'd
never get the bushings out: 'Ya need a 50-ton press.' I
smiled and said, "Perhaps... " ;-)

I also picked up one old pulley bolt washer and several
thick, Grade 8-looking suspension washers lying around the
yard. These washers seemed to be much better for this
project than what Max used. This includes the false starts
where I didn't have things set up right and applied way more
force than necessary for what I was actually trying to
achieve. I bent one suspension washer a bit, but the pulley
bolt washer was tough and is now looking no worse for the
wear.

I've started some photos and hopefully will put this up at
my web site soon.

Onto seeing if I can get the inboard lower control arm bolts
fully out.

My ball joint separator arrives Thursday. Super fast
shipping from that Ebay seller, JTC auto tools, whom Ryan
cited earlier in a link.

I will order new bushings from Kingmotorsports.com soon.
Then, possibly using Grumpy's tip about heating the arm and
Tegger's tip about cooling the bushings, onto full
replacement of the front lower control arm bushings.

Elle

I have successfully removed the larger bushing in a front
lower control arm for a 91 Civic. The final methodology is
not that labor intensive at all.
Here is an outline of the steps for removing the bushings:

1. With the control arm in a vise, //drill// holes in the
rubber bushing all around the circumference. Use three
different size drill bits, smaller to larger. Use cutting
oil. The rubber drills much easier than steel, though.

2. //Press// out the core (= most of the rubber and the
inner-most metal sleeve) using the method described at
http://www.maxcooper.com/rx7/how-to/...lls/index.html

3. //Saw// the outer sleeve using an ordinary hack saw,
making two cuts about 1/4-inch apart. Be careful not to go
all the way through the sleeve into the control arm metal. A
new blade is desirable, though I used a beat up old blade
and it didn't take long. Use cutting oil.

4. //Tap// the 1/4-inch section out using a chisel or really
any old beat up screwdriver and a low-weight hammer. It
comes out pretty easily. A pair of pliers may come in handy
to twist out where you didn't completely saw through. You
can now push the remainder of the outer sleeve out by
tapping around its circumference. Or it literally peels out
with light tapping.

Applying PB Blaster to the outer sleeve area a day or two
before this, as I did, couldn't hurt.

I am not nearly, physically as wiped out as I was after
using my coil spring compressor to replace the springs on my
front suspension. The worst part has been driving around
finding the right sockets for step 2. I got flustered with
the outer metal sleeve and how that figured into this.

Much of the above comes from Ned Buckmaster, who posted in
1999 on this subject at rec.autos.makers.honda . Ned
actually said one could twist out the core part (step 2).
But I had my sockets already (some used, so I couldn't
return them). Alternatively, plenty of folks in the
rec.autos.tech and other auto archives said one could
propane torch out the core. Someone also noted that an EZ
saw (one of those little portable hand-held electric
jigsaws) worked, too.

It's possible that Max Cooper's little
sockets-bolt-nut-washers home-made press might work with
near perfectly-sized sockets and a little heat, like Curly
suggested.

My local junkyard had a bent-up old control arm that the
owner sold me for around $10 (more parts were part of the
deal, so that's just an approximation). I told the guy what
I was doing and he got a kick out of it. Then we proceeded
to haggle the heck out of this, as is now our custom. I
asked how much he was charging me today for the
"entertainment" of his wild reasoning for the price being
such-and-such, and he laughed. I wanted it; he had it. Fair
trade.

Contrast this with the yahoo at another yard who said I'd
never get the bushings out: 'Ya need a 50-ton press.' I
smiled and said, "Perhaps... " ;-)

I also picked up one old pulley bolt washer and several
thick, Grade 8-looking suspension washers lying around the
yard. These washers seemed to be much better for this
project than what Max used. This includes the false starts
where I didn't have things set up right and applied way more
force than necessary for what I was actually trying to
achieve. I bent one suspension washer a bit, but the pulley
bolt washer was tough and is now looking no worse for the
wear.

I've started some photos and hopefully will put this up at
my web site soon.

Onto seeing if I can get the inboard lower control arm bolts
fully out.

My ball joint separator arrives Thursday. Super fast
shipping from that Ebay seller, JTC auto tools, whom Ryan
cited earlier in a link.

I will order new bushings from Kingmotorsports.com soon.
Then, possibly using Grumpy's tip about heating the arm and
Tegger's tip about cooling the bushings, onto full
replacement of the front lower control arm bushings.

Elle

"Elle" <honda.lioness@spamno.earthlink.net> wrote
> I've started some photos and hopefully will put this up at
> my web site soon.

http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id15.html

Elle

"Elle" <honda.lioness@spamno.earthlink.net> wrote
> I've started some photos and hopefully will put this up at
> my web site soon.

http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id15.html

Elle

"Elle" <honda.lioness@spamno.earthlink.net> wrote
> I've started some photos and hopefully will put this up at
> my web site soon.

http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id15.html

Michael Pardee

"Elle" <honda.lioness@spamno.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%0c8g.666$x4.430@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink .net...
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@spamno.earthlink.net> wrote
>> I've started some photos and hopefully will put this up at my web site
>> soon.
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id15.html
>
Thanks for the link, Elle... I've bookmarked it in hopes I'll never need it
;-} I watched a neighbor remove a bushing with an air chisel (using a blunt
chisel as a hammer) after I failed to budge it with a Snap-on U-joint press,
so I'm hoping that would work. Your procedure looks more labor intensive but
more certain.

I understand how exhausting jobs like that are. I salute your persistence!

Mike

Michael Pardee

"Elle" <honda.lioness@spamno.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%0c8g.666$x4.430@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink .net...
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@spamno.earthlink.net> wrote
>> I've started some photos and hopefully will put this up at my web site
>> soon.
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id15.html
>
Thanks for the link, Elle... I've bookmarked it in hopes I'll never need it
;-} I watched a neighbor remove a bushing with an air chisel (using a blunt
chisel as a hammer) after I failed to budge it with a Snap-on U-joint press,
so I'm hoping that would work. Your procedure looks more labor intensive but
more certain.

I understand how exhausting jobs like that are. I salute your persistence!

Mike

Michael Pardee

"Elle" <honda.lioness@spamno.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%0c8g.666$x4.430@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink .net...
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@spamno.earthlink.net> wrote
>> I've started some photos and hopefully will put this up at my web site
>> soon.
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id15.html
>
Thanks for the link, Elle... I've bookmarked it in hopes I'll never need it
;-} I watched a neighbor remove a bushing with an air chisel (using a blunt
chisel as a hammer) after I failed to budge it with a Snap-on U-joint press,
so I'm hoping that would work. Your procedure looks more labor intensive but
more certain.

I understand how exhausting jobs like that are. I salute your persistence!

Mike

Elle

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@spamno.earthlink.net> wrote
>> "Elle" <honda.lioness@spamno.earthlink.net> wrote
>>> I've started some photos and hopefully will put this up
>>> at my web site soon.
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id15.html
>>
> Thanks for the link, Elle... I've bookmarked it in hopes
> I'll never need it ;-} I watched a neighbor remove a
> bushing with an air chisel (using a blunt chisel as a
> hammer) after I failed to budge it with a Snap-on U-joint
> press, so I'm hoping that would work. Your procedure looks
> more labor intensive but more certain.

At least one person posted in one of the auto newsgroups
about how he used an air chisel to chase the bushing out.

I don't know. Clamping the control arm into a vise tight
enough to take the blows of an air chisel, and then not
damaging the control arm itself, looks tricky and, uh, not
as safe, as my approach. He-men maybe will be fine with it.
I don't qualify.

> I understand how exhausting jobs like that are. I salute
> your persistence!

Once I had the methodology down, it really wasn't bad at
all. I traded muscle for time but, as you suggest, in a
predictable way. Plus, one knows just about exactly where
one is during each step, as far as actually getting the
bushing out. Not so with an air hammer.

I will say that the cost of the sockets can easily exceed
the cost of a propane torch. That 1 3/4-inch socket I used
should cost upwards of $20 at Sears, IIRC. I got mine at a
pawn shop for $8.

OTOH, I think it's a lot less expensive (dollars wise and
quite possibly time-wise) than paying a shop to press out
the bushings.

Whether one can press the bushings back in without a torch
or serious press remains open to conjecture.