Re: Which To Buy?
 

On 3/3/07 1:50 PM, in article nkkGh.3242$cE3.3113@edtnps89, "Brian Smith"
<Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote:

>
> "E Meyer" <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:C20F1105.20465%epmeyer50@msn.com...
>>
>> Whether it makes sense is not the point. The point is that it doesn't
>> matter with the Nissans and it definitely does on the Hondas.
>>
>> In fact, unlike Honda, changing brake fluid is not on the maintenance
>> list
>> for any of the Nissans and changing transmission fluid is only by
>> condition,
>> not time or mileage.
>
> I should add that I am the manager for a truck fleet (all automatic
> transmission equipped), the transmission fluid and filtres are replaced
> every year as part of the fleet's preventative maintenance program.
>
>

Good for you. I think it is completely safe to say the vast majority of car
owners do whatever maintenance is specified by the owners manual or less,
not more. If it is all that important, the manufacturer would have
specified something.

I'm talking about maintenance religiously conducted according to
manufacturer's recommendations, no more, no less. If you follow the books
to the letter, Honda requires more upkeep than Nissan does.

Re: Which To Buy?
 

E Meyer wrote:

> I'm talking about maintenance religiously conducted according to
> manufacturer's recommendations, no more, no less. If you follow the books
> to the letter, Honda requires more upkeep than Nissan does.

And the end result is that Hondas experience less non-routine problems than
Nissans do.

Re: Which To Buy?
 

Brian Smith wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:RJOdnX0uKYdcf3TYnZ2dnUVZ_qSrnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> i'm interested to know - have you established from testing that the lower
>> failure rate is a function of this maint. schedule, or has allison changed
>> anything in their transmissions? and what was the failure mode? metal
>> fatigue for instance is not known to be influenced by oil filter
>> cleanliness. clutch life isn't rally affected by it either. operation
>> tends to get less smooth as particulates accumulate, but that's not
>> necessarily going to affect overall life of the transmission.
>
> In the past the transmission fluid and filtres hadn't been changed
> except when the transmissions displayed problems (not shifting correctly,
> jumping in and out of gear). Once I implemented the yearly changes, there
> have been no further issues with any of the transmissions. The down time
> that was experienced in the past was a killer on the schedules. They are
> specialized trucks and one can't rent replacements from Ryder, so they have
> to be working properly every day, all day long.
>

ok, if filter clogging is an issue, then it's good to change them.

this should have been revealed in failure analysis though, not be the
result of what is, with respect, a pretty much random maintenance
schedule. in an ideal world, you'd have had the manufacturer work with
you to figure this stuff out, not just gouge you for new transmissions.

Re: Which To Buy?
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:W7Wdnd5mtqJQ1nfYnZ2dnUVZ_tWhnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
> ok, if filter clogging is an issue, then it's good to change them.
>
> this should have been revealed in failure analysis though, not be the
> result of what is, with respect, a pretty much random maintenance
> schedule. in an ideal world, you'd have had the manufacturer work with
> you to figure this stuff out, not just gouge you for new transmissions.

I know what you're saying, but we don't live in an ideal world <g>.
Doing what I did was the logical step towards solving the problem(s), with
Allison's labour rate of $105.00 an hour it doesn't take long to waste a
grand when looking for the answer.

Re: Which To Buy?
 

"E Meyer" <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote in message
news:C20F9F27.20485%epmeyer50@msn.com...
>
> Good for you. I think it is completely safe to say the vast majority of
> car
> owners do whatever maintenance is specified by the owners manual or less,
> not more. If it is all that important, the manufacturer would have
> specified something.

True enough.

> I'm talking about maintenance religiously conducted according to
> manufacturer's recommendations, no more, no less. If you follow the books
> to the letter, Honda requires more upkeep than Nissan does.

I'll agree with you on this partly. I have a friend who purchased his
Nissan within a week of me purchasing my Honda. He does less than 70% of the
preventative maintenance that I do and he's had more problems than I have
experienced with my last three Honda vehicles. On top of that, three years
into our purchases his Nissan has a fair amount of rust on his gas tank and
the floor of the car, as well as a number of mechanical failures.My Honda
had none of these problems. Preventative maintenance is the key.

Re: Which To Buy?
 

Brian Smith wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:W7Wdnd5mtqJQ1nfYnZ2dnUVZ_tWhnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> ok, if filter clogging is an issue, then it's good to change them.
>>
>> this should have been revealed in failure analysis though, not be the
>> result of what is, with respect, a pretty much random maintenance
>> schedule. in an ideal world, you'd have had the manufacturer work with
>> you to figure this stuff out, not just gouge you for new transmissions.
>
> I know what you're saying, but we don't live in an ideal world <g>.
> Doing what I did was the logical step towards solving the problem(s), with
> Allison's labour rate of $105.00 an hour it doesn't take long to waste a
> grand when looking for the answer.
>
>
but for stuff like that, i don't think you should be paying - you should
have one of the allison design team down there resolving your problem.
from a manufacturer perspective, they need as much field service
feedback as possible to make sure your stuff works properly. if nobody
bothers to let the design team know [not the service tech] that their
filters clog outside of the lab, they'll never deal with it. here in
san francisco, a number of the taxi companies run fleets sponsored by
auto makers so we have all the latest and greatest of their vehicles in
taxi livery charging up and down the badly pot-holed streets, hills,
etc. they do this so they can install "black box" data recorders in
them and find out how their vehicles perform in "real world" for a hilly
city. they do it in las vegas too for heat. if they have the data,
they can design accordingly. no data, inadequate design.

Re: Which To Buy?
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:dvudnR4ETsZ8fnfYnZ2dnUVZ_rGinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
> but for stuff like that, i don't think you should be paying - you should
> have one of the allison design team down there resolving your problem.
> from a manufacturer perspective, they need as much field service feedback
> as possible to make sure your stuff works properly. if nobody bothers to
> let the design team know [not the service tech] that their filters clog
> outside of the lab, they'll never deal with it. here in san francisco, a
> number of the taxi companies run fleets sponsored by auto makers so we
> have all the latest and greatest of their vehicles in taxi livery charging
> up and down the badly pot-holed streets, hills, etc. they do this so they
> can install "black box" data recorders in them and find out how their
> vehicles perform in "real world" for a hilly city. they do it in las
> vegas too for heat. if they have the data, they can design accordingly.
> no data, inadequate design.

I do understand what you are saying, but a small fleet of trucks doesn't
seem to draw their attention. I would think that one truck having problems
with their product would garner attention, but not yet.

Re: Which To Buy?
 

Brian Smith wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:dvudnR4ETsZ8fnfYnZ2dnUVZ_rGinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> but for stuff like that, i don't think you should be paying - you should
>> have one of the allison design team down there resolving your problem.
>> from a manufacturer perspective, they need as much field service feedback
>> as possible to make sure your stuff works properly. if nobody bothers to
>> let the design team know [not the service tech] that their filters clog
>> outside of the lab, they'll never deal with it. here in san francisco, a
>> number of the taxi companies run fleets sponsored by auto makers so we
>> have all the latest and greatest of their vehicles in taxi livery charging
>> up and down the badly pot-holed streets, hills, etc. they do this so they
>> can install "black box" data recorders in them and find out how their
>> vehicles perform in "real world" for a hilly city. they do it in las
>> vegas too for heat. if they have the data, they can design accordingly.
>> no data, inadequate design.
>
> I do understand what you are saying, but a small fleet of trucks doesn't
> seem to draw their attention. I would think that one truck having problems
> with their product would garner attention, but not yet.
>
>
it's also possible, depending on their business model, that they don't
want to resolve the issue - either a local or corporate decision. when
i was a pup at university, one of my professors did some consulting work
with one of the big auto manufacturers to help them limit the life of
their transmissions via metal fatigue. [it's a very hard technical
problem because things tend to either break right away, or last
forever.] but the point is, life limitation is very much on the agenda
in certain situations. i'm not sure it would be for commercial
applications, at least from a corporate standpoint, but you may have
been up against local sales quotas, and failures are a sales opportunity.

Re: Which To Buy?
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:Poidnf3GXfo3cnfYnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
> it's also possible, depending on their business model, that they don't
> want to resolve the issue - either a local or corporate decision. when i
> was a pup at university, one of my professors did some consulting work
> with one of the big auto manufacturers to help them limit the life of
> their transmissions via metal fatigue. [it's a very hard technical
> problem because things tend to either break right away, or last forever.]
> but the point is, life limitation is very much on the agenda in certain
> situations. i'm not sure it would be for commercial applications, at
> least from a corporate standpoint, but you may have been up against local
> sales quotas, and failures are a sales opportunity.

All true.

Re: Which To Buy?
 

On 3/3/07 10:12 PM, in article 1wwlhu5vswi03.dlg@hightech.misfit, "High Tech
Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> E Meyer wrote:
>
>> I'm talking about maintenance religiously conducted according to
>> manufacturer's recommendations, no more, no less. If you follow the books
>> to the letter, Honda requires more upkeep than Nissan does.
>
> And the end result is that Hondas experience less non-routine problems than
> Nissans do.

I really haven't seen that result on the ones I've directly experienced.
Given my limited experiences (6 Hondas and 6 Nissans over about 18 years), I
have to say the vote goes in the other direction.

The only non-routine problems I've treated on Nissans have been the
occasional engine compartment electrical connector that needed
cleaning/reseating (plagues the '02 Pathfinder) and periodic throttle body
cleaning ('91 240sx and '96 I30).

With the Hondas, we've had ABS systems fail on two out of two mid 90's cars
('95 Integra & '96 Odyssey) and one transmission failure ('00 TL). These
cars were well maintained with brake fluid changes and transmission fluid
changes according to the published schedules. Clearly design flaws. Honda
made good on the transmission, but they never owned up to the ABS problems
on those cars.

Re: Which To Buy?
 

E Meyer wrote:

> The only non-routine problems I've treated on Nissans have been the
> occasional engine compartment electrical connector that needed
> cleaning/reseating (plagues the '02 Pathfinder) and periodic throttle body
> cleaning ('91 240sx and '96 I30).

It's the newer Nissans that are crap. Older Nissans were much more solid.
A friend of mine put over 200,000 miles on a '90 NX with little trouble.

Re: Which To Buy?
 

On Feb 27, 10:43 am, "Dano58" <dan.dibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 5:17 pm, "DodgeDriver" <wing...@invalid.net> wrote:
>
> > We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is
> > talking Honda Civic. Don't know why, but she believes that is what she
> > wants. She will have about $5,000 (US) to spend. I lean toward something
> > not more than 5 years old. Haven't started looking but thought I would ask
> > this group for opinions re: a Civic. Are all Civics created equal or are
> > there certain models/years to stay away from?
>
> > Thanks for any help.
>
> $5k will buy you a 10 or so year old Civic here in NJ... I like them a
> lot but was looking at Accords for my son (I wanted a little larger
> car to compete with the SUV's). We ended up with a '99 Subaru Legacy
> with AWD that he likes a lot. Paid well under $5k for it, too...
>
> In addition to what the others have said, stay away from any car that
> has been 'upgraded' with aftermarket air intakes, wheels, headlight/
> taillights, etc. As you'll see, Civics are very popular with the tuner
> crowd, but many of them have stuff added with no thought of how it
> will work, just how it will look (or sound). Also look for one with
> mechanical records, and preferably with the timing belt replaced.
>
> Dan D
> '07 Ody EX
> Central NJ USA

Re: Which To Buy?
 

"High Tech Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:1fy7qikgxgl2m.dlg@hightech.misfit...
>E Meyer wrote:
>
>> The only non-routine problems I've treated on Nissans have been the
>> occasional engine compartment electrical connector that needed
>> cleaning/reseating (plagues the '02 Pathfinder) and periodic throttle
>> body
>> cleaning ('91 240sx and '96 I30).
>
> It's the newer Nissans that are crap. Older Nissans were much more solid.
> A friend of mine put over 200,000 miles on a '90 NX with little trouble.

One of the most troublesome cars I've ever had was an '85 300ZX. There were
problems related to poor maintenance, especially the use of straight water
in the cooling system (I violated my rules for used car standards because I
lusted after the car). But the real killer was in the electrical system. At
17 years and 150K miles it was developing new intermittents faster than I
could track them down. A few years before, an intermittent connector on the
ignition coil caused it to die half a dozen times a day for two months. The
first month it didn't even stay dead a minute at a time... very frustrating.

Mike

Re: Which To Buy?
 

On 3/4/07 6:51 PM, in article 1fy7qikgxgl2m.dlg@hightech.misfit, "High Tech
Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> E Meyer wrote:
>
>> The only non-routine problems I've treated on Nissans have been the
>> occasional engine compartment electrical connector that needed
>> cleaning/reseating (plagues the '02 Pathfinder) and periodic throttle body
>> cleaning ('91 240sx and '96 I30).
>
> It's the newer Nissans that are crap. Older Nissans were much more solid.
> A friend of mine put over 200,000 miles on a '90 NX with little trouble.

My daughter's daily driver is a '91 240sx. Non-routine maintenance costs on
this 16 YO car so far have only been a starter, a window motor and one fuel
injector, basically next to nothing.

The electrical ghosts in the '02 Pathfinder are irritating. If not for the
fact that I do my own car maintenance this sort of thing could get very
expensive and frustrating very easily. I don't think I'm ready to move it
all the way to the category of crap, but I have to agree with you that it
does seem to be a step down in apparent quality from the older ones.
Compared to the transmission defect in my similar vintage '00 Acura TL
though, it still comes out ahead.

Re: Which To Buy?
 

On Mar 1, 8:55 am, Doug B <doug.bl...@osumc.edu> wrote:
> isq...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Feb 26, 2:17 pm, "DodgeDriver" <wing...@invalid.net> wrote:
> >> We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is
> >> talking Honda Civic. Don't know why, but she believes that is what she
> >> wants. She will have about $5,000 (US) to spend. I lean toward something
> >> not more than 5 years old. Haven't started looking but thought I would ask
> >> this group for opinions re: a Civic. Are all Civics created equal or are
> >> there certain models/years to stay away from?
>
> >> Thanks for any help.
>
> > For $5k I'd buy an american over a jap car anyday.
>
> Your bias is evident in your use of an ethnic slur in your reply, making
> your opinion even more worthless than most.

Whatever. I owned three japanese
cars and one american. I like my japanese cars. But I have
to give it to the americans that the car was
1. rattle free
2. did not need any major repairs
3. pulled like a locomotive

All three of my jap cars rattle. All three came with wimpy engines and
one out of three was a total disaster maintenance
wise. So you opinion be as it may I should say that
there is a lot of things to like japanese econoboxes
for, but reliability is not one of them for sure.