John W

I'm buying a 2005 Honda Accord EX V6 sedan. The MSRP is $26,800 & invoice
price is $24,024. The dealer is selling the car for $90 under the invoice
price. I'm financing the car over 60 months at 2.9%. I'll be putting $2,500
down on the car so the monthly payment including the 2.9% financing & 7%
Ohio sales tax is $411.08 a month. Does that sound like a fair price or do
they have slack to come down more? I wouldn't think there would be as much
room on a Honda as some other cars to deal but figured I'd get a second
opinion before I say yes to the deal.

Thanks,

John

Bob Schoenleber

John W wrote:
> I'm buying a 2005 Honda Accord EX V6 sedan. The MSRP is $26,800 & invoice
> price is $24,024. The dealer is selling the car for $90 under the invoice
> price. I'm financing the car over 60 months at 2.9%. I'll be putting $2,500
> down on the car so the monthly payment including the 2.9% financing & 7%
> Ohio sales tax is $411.08 a month. Does that sound like a fair price or do
> they have slack to come down more? I wouldn't think there would be as much
> room on a Honda as some other cars to deal but figured I'd get a second
> opinion before I say yes to the deal.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John


John,

Honda has a 3% holdback applied against the base MSRP. In your case the
dealer will get about $804 from Honda on the EX V6 sedan. If the dealer
is giving you $90 under invoice he still has a potential profit of $714.
If it was me I haggle for a lower price.

For holdback info see:

http://www.safecarguide.com/gui/neg/holdback.htm

Best of luck.....Bob
--
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Bob Schoenleber

John W wrote:
> I'm buying a 2005 Honda Accord EX V6 sedan. The MSRP is $26,800 & invoice
> price is $24,024. The dealer is selling the car for $90 under the invoice
> price. I'm financing the car over 60 months at 2.9%. I'll be putting $2,500
> down on the car so the monthly payment including the 2.9% financing & 7%
> Ohio sales tax is $411.08 a month. Does that sound like a fair price or do
> they have slack to come down more? I wouldn't think there would be as much
> room on a Honda as some other cars to deal but figured I'd get a second
> opinion before I say yes to the deal.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John


John,

Honda has a 3% holdback applied against the base MSRP. In your case the
dealer will get about $804 from Honda on the EX V6 sedan. If the dealer
is giving you $90 under invoice he still has a potential profit of $714.
If it was me I haggle for a lower price.

For holdback info see:

http://www.safecarguide.com/gui/neg/holdback.htm

Best of luck.....Bob
--
<Remove XXX to reply via email>

Howard

Yeah, they got room. They could forgo the few dollars holdback they'll
receive after they sell you a car for a $90 loss. And yeah, they could give
away the few dollars they make on the financing. What the hell, why allow
them to make anything? You'd do the same in your business wouldn't you?
"John W" <jward2NOSPAM@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:NTxGd.56$jg6.53@fe37.usenetserver.com...
> I'm buying a 2005 Honda Accord EX V6 sedan. The MSRP is $26,800 & invoice
> price is $24,024. The dealer is selling the car for $90 under the invoice
> price. I'm financing the car over 60 months at 2.9%. I'll be putting
$2,500
> down on the car so the monthly payment including the 2.9% financing & 7%
> Ohio sales tax is $411.08 a month. Does that sound like a fair price or do
> they have slack to come down more? I wouldn't think there would be as much
> room on a Honda as some other cars to deal but figured I'd get a second
> opinion before I say yes to the deal.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>
>

Howard

Yeah, they got room. They could forgo the few dollars holdback they'll
receive after they sell you a car for a $90 loss. And yeah, they could give
away the few dollars they make on the financing. What the hell, why allow
them to make anything? You'd do the same in your business wouldn't you?
"John W" <jward2NOSPAM@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:NTxGd.56$jg6.53@fe37.usenetserver.com...
> I'm buying a 2005 Honda Accord EX V6 sedan. The MSRP is $26,800 & invoice
> price is $24,024. The dealer is selling the car for $90 under the invoice
> price. I'm financing the car over 60 months at 2.9%. I'll be putting
$2,500
> down on the car so the monthly payment including the 2.9% financing & 7%
> Ohio sales tax is $411.08 a month. Does that sound like a fair price or do
> they have slack to come down more? I wouldn't think there would be as much
> room on a Honda as some other cars to deal but figured I'd get a second
> opinion before I say yes to the deal.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>
>

Bob Schoenleber

Howard wrote:
> Yeah, they got room. They could forgo the few dollars holdback they'll
> receive after they sell you a car for a $90 loss. And yeah, they could give
> away the few dollars they make on the financing. What the hell, why allow
> them to make anything? You'd do the same in your business wouldn't you?
> "John W" <jward2NOSPAM@fuse.net> wrote in message
> news:NTxGd.56$jg6.53@fe37.usenetserver.com...
>
>>I'm buying a 2005 Honda Accord EX V6 sedan. The MSRP is $26,800 & invoice
>>price is $24,024. The dealer is selling the car for $90 under the invoice
>>price. I'm financing the car over 60 months at 2.9%. I'll be putting
>
> $2,500
>
>>down on the car so the monthly payment including the 2.9% financing & 7%
>>Ohio sales tax is $411.08 a month. Does that sound like a fair price or do
>>they have slack to come down more? I wouldn't think there would be as much
>>room on a Honda as some other cars to deal but figured I'd get a second
>>opinion before I say yes to the deal.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>John


Howard,

No one is forcing the dealer to give the car away. They have the
choice; either make the "deal" or not. Do you really think they
wouldn't sell it for MSRP if they could get away with it? Undoubtably
the car dealers favor the negotiating process of purchasing a car. If
not they would set price and stick to it.

Bob


--
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Bob Schoenleber

Howard wrote:
> Yeah, they got room. They could forgo the few dollars holdback they'll
> receive after they sell you a car for a $90 loss. And yeah, they could give
> away the few dollars they make on the financing. What the hell, why allow
> them to make anything? You'd do the same in your business wouldn't you?
> "John W" <jward2NOSPAM@fuse.net> wrote in message
> news:NTxGd.56$jg6.53@fe37.usenetserver.com...
>
>>I'm buying a 2005 Honda Accord EX V6 sedan. The MSRP is $26,800 & invoice
>>price is $24,024. The dealer is selling the car for $90 under the invoice
>>price. I'm financing the car over 60 months at 2.9%. I'll be putting
>
> $2,500
>
>>down on the car so the monthly payment including the 2.9% financing & 7%
>>Ohio sales tax is $411.08 a month. Does that sound like a fair price or do
>>they have slack to come down more? I wouldn't think there would be as much
>>room on a Honda as some other cars to deal but figured I'd get a second
>>opinion before I say yes to the deal.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>John


Howard,

No one is forcing the dealer to give the car away. They have the
choice; either make the "deal" or not. Do you really think they
wouldn't sell it for MSRP if they could get away with it? Undoubtably
the car dealers favor the negotiating process of purchasing a car. If
not they would set price and stick to it.

Bob


--
<Remove XXX to reply via email>

John W

Thanks for the responses everyone. I figure the dealer is probably making
$500-1000 on the average sale of a vehicle or they wouldn't be in the car
business. Sounds like the deal isn't too bad.

John

John W

Thanks for the responses everyone. I figure the dealer is probably making
$500-1000 on the average sale of a vehicle or they wouldn't be in the car
business. Sounds like the deal isn't too bad.

John

Howard

Bob wrote:
>No one is forcing the dealer to give the car away. They have the choice;
>either make the "deal" or not. Do you really think >they wouldn't sell it
>for MSRP if they could get away with it? Undoubtably the car dealers favor
>the negotiating process of >purchasing a car. If not they would set price
>and stick to it.

Bob,
I don't really disagree with you. My point is, how low can a person in a
business be expected to lower their prices and still remain in business.
There's a reason for the MSRP. I don't know what the overhead for a dealer
is to sell a car, but it always sounds like someone is trying to steal
something when they buy a car. When you go to a high end audio store where
your purchases might be in the thousands, do you lowball the purchase, do
you go online and find the dealers cost, do you search for any incentives by
the manufacturer, do you bargain for the delivery or the install?
I think it's degrading to both the consumer as well as the dealer the way
auto sales are conducted. The price should be on the sticker, and that's
what you pay. If you think the percentages are high, check what the markups
(percantage) are on some other products. The problem with autos is the
percentage is on a reasonably high figure. Why should it be different for
autos?
Say the dealer paid $24,000 for that car. Sticker is $26,800. He sells for
even $100. over invoice and he gets a holdback of 3% (I heard it was 2%)
$720. He's got $820. What about transportation charges, cleanup charges, and
technicians PDI labor(Pre Delivery Inspection - required), floor planning,
advertising, rent, electricity, personnel, etc. OK, so cut the $820 in half
(very conservative) and he doesn't have even 2% profit. How many businesses
do you know that thrive on 2% profit? I know, they make more on financing,
so now let's raise that up to even 10%. Still, a very modest return in a
retail business. Let's exclude parts and service, because with a pre-set
attitude about the dealer ripping you off you know you're not going to go
back there, besides that's a separate purchase.
I know most dealers are not hurting unless they're selling Oldsmobiles these
days, but they are still entitled to make a living and a decent profit. We
live in a land of free enterprise and free competition. If you don't like
price, go somewhere else.
Besides, Caveat Emptor!
Howard

Howard

Bob wrote:
>No one is forcing the dealer to give the car away. They have the choice;
>either make the "deal" or not. Do you really think >they wouldn't sell it
>for MSRP if they could get away with it? Undoubtably the car dealers favor
>the negotiating process of >purchasing a car. If not they would set price
>and stick to it.

Bob,
I don't really disagree with you. My point is, how low can a person in a
business be expected to lower their prices and still remain in business.
There's a reason for the MSRP. I don't know what the overhead for a dealer
is to sell a car, but it always sounds like someone is trying to steal
something when they buy a car. When you go to a high end audio store where
your purchases might be in the thousands, do you lowball the purchase, do
you go online and find the dealers cost, do you search for any incentives by
the manufacturer, do you bargain for the delivery or the install?
I think it's degrading to both the consumer as well as the dealer the way
auto sales are conducted. The price should be on the sticker, and that's
what you pay. If you think the percentages are high, check what the markups
(percantage) are on some other products. The problem with autos is the
percentage is on a reasonably high figure. Why should it be different for
autos?
Say the dealer paid $24,000 for that car. Sticker is $26,800. He sells for
even $100. over invoice and he gets a holdback of 3% (I heard it was 2%)
$720. He's got $820. What about transportation charges, cleanup charges, and
technicians PDI labor(Pre Delivery Inspection - required), floor planning,
advertising, rent, electricity, personnel, etc. OK, so cut the $820 in half
(very conservative) and he doesn't have even 2% profit. How many businesses
do you know that thrive on 2% profit? I know, they make more on financing,
so now let's raise that up to even 10%. Still, a very modest return in a
retail business. Let's exclude parts and service, because with a pre-set
attitude about the dealer ripping you off you know you're not going to go
back there, besides that's a separate purchase.
I know most dealers are not hurting unless they're selling Oldsmobiles these
days, but they are still entitled to make a living and a decent profit. We
live in a land of free enterprise and free competition. If you don't like
price, go somewhere else.
Besides, Caveat Emptor!
Howard

Sparky

Howard wrote:

> Yeah, they got room. They could forgo the few dollars holdback they'll
> receive after they sell you a car for a $90 loss. And yeah, they could give
> away the few dollars they make on the financing. What the hell, why allow
> them to make anything? You'd do the same in your business wouldn't you?

My heart really bleeds for the poor dealers. [not]

When demand is high for an especially hot model, dealers can & do sell
them for well over the MSRP, sometimes $1,000's more. It's supply &
demand, if you can negotiate the price down, only a fool wouldn't. Let
the dealer worry about his own *** (just think of the profit from the
service & parts depts).

Wal-Mart has no scruples about throwing its economic weight around, does it?

Sparky

Howard wrote:

> Yeah, they got room. They could forgo the few dollars holdback they'll
> receive after they sell you a car for a $90 loss. And yeah, they could give
> away the few dollars they make on the financing. What the hell, why allow
> them to make anything? You'd do the same in your business wouldn't you?

My heart really bleeds for the poor dealers. [not]

When demand is high for an especially hot model, dealers can & do sell
them for well over the MSRP, sometimes $1,000's more. It's supply &
demand, if you can negotiate the price down, only a fool wouldn't. Let
the dealer worry about his own *** (just think of the profit from the
service & parts depts).

Wal-Mart has no scruples about throwing its economic weight around, does it?

Sparky

Howard wrote:

> Bob wrote:
>
>>No one is forcing the dealer to give the car away. They have the choice;
>>either make the "deal" or not. Do you really think >they wouldn't sell it
>>for MSRP if they could get away with it? Undoubtably the car dealers favor
>>the negotiating process of >purchasing a car. If not they would set price
>>and stick to it.
>
> Bob,
> I don't really disagree with you. My point is, how low can a person in a
> business be expected to lower their prices and still remain in business.
> There's a reason for the MSRP.

It's completely artificial. For starters, the MSRP makes no account of
any holdbacks the factory is offering dealers.

<snip>

> Say the dealer paid $24,000 for that car. Sticker is $26,800. He sells for
> even $100. over invoice and he gets a holdback of 3% (I heard it was 2%)
> $720. He's got $820. What about transportation charges, cleanup charges, and
> technicians PDI labor(Pre Delivery Inspection - required), floor planning,
> advertising, rent, electricity, personnel, etc. OK, so cut the $820 in half
> (very conservative) and he doesn't have even 2% profit. How many businesses
> do you know that thrive on 2% profit?

Please, the dealers' only source of revenue is *not* just from the sale
of new cars. If you're going to cry "fair" on new car sales, how about
used car sales, parts & service? The dealer has economic muscle far in
excess of anyone buying just one car. What sort of deals do you think
Hertz & National get when buying their fleets?

Sparky

Howard wrote:

> Bob wrote:
>
>>No one is forcing the dealer to give the car away. They have the choice;
>>either make the "deal" or not. Do you really think >they wouldn't sell it
>>for MSRP if they could get away with it? Undoubtably the car dealers favor
>>the negotiating process of >purchasing a car. If not they would set price
>>and stick to it.
>
> Bob,
> I don't really disagree with you. My point is, how low can a person in a
> business be expected to lower their prices and still remain in business.
> There's a reason for the MSRP.

It's completely artificial. For starters, the MSRP makes no account of
any holdbacks the factory is offering dealers.

<snip>

> Say the dealer paid $24,000 for that car. Sticker is $26,800. He sells for
> even $100. over invoice and he gets a holdback of 3% (I heard it was 2%)
> $720. He's got $820. What about transportation charges, cleanup charges, and
> technicians PDI labor(Pre Delivery Inspection - required), floor planning,
> advertising, rent, electricity, personnel, etc. OK, so cut the $820 in half
> (very conservative) and he doesn't have even 2% profit. How many businesses
> do you know that thrive on 2% profit?

Please, the dealers' only source of revenue is *not* just from the sale
of new cars. If you're going to cry "fair" on new car sales, how about
used car sales, parts & service? The dealer has economic muscle far in
excess of anyone buying just one car. What sort of deals do you think
Hertz & National get when buying their fleets?