Changing brake fluid ????
 

98 Accord, coupe, V6, auto, 105,000 miles.
I'm working on multiple tranny drain and fills and like an earlier poster
mentioned, I should change the brake fluid next...

My guess is its not good enough to change just the fluid in the reservoir...
Do I have to bleed the brakes..
(I think I know the answer I just never have good luck bleeding brakes. open
valve, pump brake, close valve, repeat, repeat, repeat...........)


Steve

Re: Changing brake fluid ????
 

comcastss news groups wrote:
>
> 98 Accord, coupe, V6, auto, 105,000 miles.
> I'm working on multiple tranny drain and fills and like an earlier poster
> mentioned, I should change the brake fluid next...
>
> My guess is its not good enough to change just the fluid in the
> reservoir...
> Do I have to bleed the brakes..

Yes.

Remove all of the fluid from the master cylinder reservoir. A turkey baster
works all right. When you get down near the bottom part of the reservoir, a
syringe works pretty good. Don't use a paper towel or anything to wipe out
the reservoir. Just leave it alone. Refill the reservoir with clean fluid
and bleed the brakes.


> (I think I know the answer I just never have good luck bleeding brakes.
> open valve, pump brake, close valve, repeat, repeat, repeat...........)

That might be your problem. The sequence is to hold the brake pedal down,
then open the bleeder valve. When you open the valve, the brake pedal
should go all the way down. Close the valve and then have your assistant
reapply pressure to the brake pedal. Repeat the process until you have
clean fluid coming out of all 4 cylinders. Check your manual for the proper
sequence to bleed each of the wheel cylinders. Note that I like to use a
section of clear Tygon style tubing to attach to the bleeder valves to
direct the fluid into a waste container. Using clear tubing also
facilitates knowing when the fluid is coming out clean and all the air is
gone. You should also use a closed ended wrench on the bleeder valves.
Using an open ended wrench may strip the bleeder valves as they can get
stuck over the years and become difficult to loosen.

Eric

Re: Changing brake fluid ????
 

comcastss news groups wrote:
>
> 98 Accord, coupe, V6, auto, 105,000 miles.
> I'm working on multiple tranny drain and fills and like an earlier poster
> mentioned, I should change the brake fluid next...
>
> My guess is its not good enough to change just the fluid in the
> reservoir...
> Do I have to bleed the brakes..

Yes.

Remove all of the fluid from the master cylinder reservoir. A turkey baster
works all right. When you get down near the bottom part of the reservoir, a
syringe works pretty good. Don't use a paper towel or anything to wipe out
the reservoir. Just leave it alone. Refill the reservoir with clean fluid
and bleed the brakes.


> (I think I know the answer I just never have good luck bleeding brakes.
> open valve, pump brake, close valve, repeat, repeat, repeat...........)

That might be your problem. The sequence is to hold the brake pedal down,
then open the bleeder valve. When you open the valve, the brake pedal
should go all the way down. Close the valve and then have your assistant
reapply pressure to the brake pedal. Repeat the process until you have
clean fluid coming out of all 4 cylinders. Check your manual for the proper
sequence to bleed each of the wheel cylinders. Note that I like to use a
section of clear Tygon style tubing to attach to the bleeder valves to
direct the fluid into a waste container. Using clear tubing also
facilitates knowing when the fluid is coming out clean and all the air is
gone. You should also use a closed ended wrench on the bleeder valves.
Using an open ended wrench may strip the bleeder valves as they can get
stuck over the years and become difficult to loosen.

Eric

Re: Changing brake fluid ????
 

comcastss news groups wrote:
>
> 98 Accord, coupe, V6, auto, 105,000 miles.
> I'm working on multiple tranny drain and fills and like an earlier poster
> mentioned, I should change the brake fluid next...
>
> My guess is its not good enough to change just the fluid in the
> reservoir...
> Do I have to bleed the brakes..

Yes.

Remove all of the fluid from the master cylinder reservoir. A turkey baster
works all right. When you get down near the bottom part of the reservoir, a
syringe works pretty good. Don't use a paper towel or anything to wipe out
the reservoir. Just leave it alone. Refill the reservoir with clean fluid
and bleed the brakes.


> (I think I know the answer I just never have good luck bleeding brakes.
> open valve, pump brake, close valve, repeat, repeat, repeat...........)

That might be your problem. The sequence is to hold the brake pedal down,
then open the bleeder valve. When you open the valve, the brake pedal
should go all the way down. Close the valve and then have your assistant
reapply pressure to the brake pedal. Repeat the process until you have
clean fluid coming out of all 4 cylinders. Check your manual for the proper
sequence to bleed each of the wheel cylinders. Note that I like to use a
section of clear Tygon style tubing to attach to the bleeder valves to
direct the fluid into a waste container. Using clear tubing also
facilitates knowing when the fluid is coming out clean and all the air is
gone. You should also use a closed ended wrench on the bleeder valves.
Using an open ended wrench may strip the bleeder valves as they can get
stuck over the years and become difficult to loosen.

Eric

Re: Changing brake fluid ????
 

comcastss news groups wrote:
>
> 98 Accord, coupe, V6, auto, 105,000 miles.
> I'm working on multiple tranny drain and fills and like an earlier poster
> mentioned, I should change the brake fluid next...
>
> My guess is its not good enough to change just the fluid in the
> reservoir...
> Do I have to bleed the brakes..

Yes.

Remove all of the fluid from the master cylinder reservoir. A turkey baster
works all right. When you get down near the bottom part of the reservoir, a
syringe works pretty good. Don't use a paper towel or anything to wipe out
the reservoir. Just leave it alone. Refill the reservoir with clean fluid
and bleed the brakes.


> (I think I know the answer I just never have good luck bleeding brakes.
> open valve, pump brake, close valve, repeat, repeat, repeat...........)

That might be your problem. The sequence is to hold the brake pedal down,
then open the bleeder valve. When you open the valve, the brake pedal
should go all the way down. Close the valve and then have your assistant
reapply pressure to the brake pedal. Repeat the process until you have
clean fluid coming out of all 4 cylinders. Check your manual for the proper
sequence to bleed each of the wheel cylinders. Note that I like to use a
section of clear Tygon style tubing to attach to the bleeder valves to
direct the fluid into a waste container. Using clear tubing also
facilitates knowing when the fluid is coming out clean and all the air is
gone. You should also use a closed ended wrench on the bleeder valves.
Using an open ended wrench may strip the bleeder valves as they can get
stuck over the years and become difficult to loosen.

Eric

Re: Changing brake fluid ????
 

You may have a point there!
I'm also concerned about the master cylinder traveling to an area that
doesn't usually get used and getting scored then leaking. I think I ran into
this problem once?...

> > (I think I know the answer I just never have good luck bleeding brakes.
> > open valve, pump brake, close valve, repeat, repeat, repeat...........)
>
> That might be your problem. The sequence is to hold the brake pedal down,
> then open the bleeder valve. When you open the valve, the brake pedal
> should go all the way down. Close the valve and then have your assistant
> reapply pressure to the brake pedal. Repeat the process until you have
> clean fluid coming out of all 4 cylinders. Check your manual for the
proper
> sequence to bleed each of the wheel cylinders. Note that I like to use a
> section of clear Tygon style tubing to attach to the bleeder valves to
> direct the fluid into a waste container. Using clear tubing also
> facilitates knowing when the fluid is coming out clean and all the air is
> gone. You should also use a closed ended wrench on the bleeder valves.
> Using an open ended wrench may strip the bleeder valves as they can get
> stuck over the years and become difficult to loosen.
>
> Eric

Re: Changing brake fluid ????
 

You may have a point there!
I'm also concerned about the master cylinder traveling to an area that
doesn't usually get used and getting scored then leaking. I think I ran into
this problem once?...

> > (I think I know the answer I just never have good luck bleeding brakes.
> > open valve, pump brake, close valve, repeat, repeat, repeat...........)
>
> That might be your problem. The sequence is to hold the brake pedal down,
> then open the bleeder valve. When you open the valve, the brake pedal
> should go all the way down. Close the valve and then have your assistant
> reapply pressure to the brake pedal. Repeat the process until you have
> clean fluid coming out of all 4 cylinders. Check your manual for the
proper
> sequence to bleed each of the wheel cylinders. Note that I like to use a
> section of clear Tygon style tubing to attach to the bleeder valves to
> direct the fluid into a waste container. Using clear tubing also
> facilitates knowing when the fluid is coming out clean and all the air is
> gone. You should also use a closed ended wrench on the bleeder valves.
> Using an open ended wrench may strip the bleeder valves as they can get
> stuck over the years and become difficult to loosen.
>
> Eric

Re: Changing brake fluid ????
 

You may have a point there!
I'm also concerned about the master cylinder traveling to an area that
doesn't usually get used and getting scored then leaking. I think I ran into
this problem once?...

> > (I think I know the answer I just never have good luck bleeding brakes.
> > open valve, pump brake, close valve, repeat, repeat, repeat...........)
>
> That might be your problem. The sequence is to hold the brake pedal down,
> then open the bleeder valve. When you open the valve, the brake pedal
> should go all the way down. Close the valve and then have your assistant
> reapply pressure to the brake pedal. Repeat the process until you have
> clean fluid coming out of all 4 cylinders. Check your manual for the
proper
> sequence to bleed each of the wheel cylinders. Note that I like to use a
> section of clear Tygon style tubing to attach to the bleeder valves to
> direct the fluid into a waste container. Using clear tubing also
> facilitates knowing when the fluid is coming out clean and all the air is
> gone. You should also use a closed ended wrench on the bleeder valves.
> Using an open ended wrench may strip the bleeder valves as they can get
> stuck over the years and become difficult to loosen.
>
> Eric

Re: Changing brake fluid ????
 

You may have a point there!
I'm also concerned about the master cylinder traveling to an area that
doesn't usually get used and getting scored then leaking. I think I ran into
this problem once?...

> > (I think I know the answer I just never have good luck bleeding brakes.
> > open valve, pump brake, close valve, repeat, repeat, repeat...........)
>
> That might be your problem. The sequence is to hold the brake pedal down,
> then open the bleeder valve. When you open the valve, the brake pedal
> should go all the way down. Close the valve and then have your assistant
> reapply pressure to the brake pedal. Repeat the process until you have
> clean fluid coming out of all 4 cylinders. Check your manual for the
proper
> sequence to bleed each of the wheel cylinders. Note that I like to use a
> section of clear Tygon style tubing to attach to the bleeder valves to
> direct the fluid into a waste container. Using clear tubing also
> facilitates knowing when the fluid is coming out clean and all the air is
> gone. You should also use a closed ended wrench on the bleeder valves.
> Using an open ended wrench may strip the bleeder valves as they can get
> stuck over the years and become difficult to loosen.
>
> Eric

Re: Changing brake fluid ????
 

"comcastss news groups" <srivet@starprintingcorp.com> wrote in
news:9dednQ0SyYAgf-jYnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@conversent.net:
>
>> > (I think I know the answer I just never have good luck bleeding
>> > brakes. open valve, pump brake, close valve, repeat, repeat,
>> > repeat...........)
>>
>> That might be your problem. The sequence is to hold the brake pedal
>> down, then open the bleeder valve. When you open the valve, the
>> brake pedal should go all the way down. Close the valve and then
>> have your assistant reapply pressure to the brake pedal. Repeat the
>> process until you have clean fluid coming out of all 4 cylinders.
>> Check your manual for the proper
>> sequence to bleed each of the wheel cylinders. Note that I like to
>> use a section of clear Tygon style tubing to attach to the bleeder
>> valves to direct the fluid into a waste container. Using clear
>> tubing also facilitates knowing when the fluid is coming out clean
>> and all the air is gone. You should also use a closed ended wrench
>> on the bleeder valves. Using an open ended wrench may strip the
>> bleeder valves as they can get stuck over the years and become
>> difficult to loosen.
>>
>
> You may have a point there!
> I'm also concerned about the master cylinder traveling to an area that
> doesn't usually get used and getting scored then leaking. I think I
> ran into this problem once?...



On a '98 I wouldn't worry too much about that.

And it is correct to apply pressure and hold, THEN open the bleed nipple.
The pedal will go to the floor very fast and you'll hear the thump. Close
nipple, THEN have helper raise pedal. Repeat. Every eight or so pedal-
presses, top up the MC.

Bleed right rear, left front; left rear, right front.
I find bleed sequence isn't really that important anyway, so you could do
rear (any order) then front (any order) if you want.

And if you have ABS, you'll need to bleed twice, once before exercising the
ABS, and once after.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Changing brake fluid ????
 

"comcastss news groups" <srivet@starprintingcorp.com> wrote in
news:9dednQ0SyYAgf-jYnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@conversent.net:
>
>> > (I think I know the answer I just never have good luck bleeding
>> > brakes. open valve, pump brake, close valve, repeat, repeat,
>> > repeat...........)
>>
>> That might be your problem. The sequence is to hold the brake pedal
>> down, then open the bleeder valve. When you open the valve, the
>> brake pedal should go all the way down. Close the valve and then
>> have your assistant reapply pressure to the brake pedal. Repeat the
>> process until you have clean fluid coming out of all 4 cylinders.
>> Check your manual for the proper
>> sequence to bleed each of the wheel cylinders. Note that I like to
>> use a section of clear Tygon style tubing to attach to the bleeder
>> valves to direct the fluid into a waste container. Using clear
>> tubing also facilitates knowing when the fluid is coming out clean
>> and all the air is gone. You should also use a closed ended wrench
>> on the bleeder valves. Using an open ended wrench may strip the
>> bleeder valves as they can get stuck over the years and become
>> difficult to loosen.
>>
>
> You may have a point there!
> I'm also concerned about the master cylinder traveling to an area that
> doesn't usually get used and getting scored then leaking. I think I
> ran into this problem once?...



On a '98 I wouldn't worry too much about that.

And it is correct to apply pressure and hold, THEN open the bleed nipple.
The pedal will go to the floor very fast and you'll hear the thump. Close
nipple, THEN have helper raise pedal. Repeat. Every eight or so pedal-
presses, top up the MC.

Bleed right rear, left front; left rear, right front.
I find bleed sequence isn't really that important anyway, so you could do
rear (any order) then front (any order) if you want.

And if you have ABS, you'll need to bleed twice, once before exercising the
ABS, and once after.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Changing brake fluid ????
 

"comcastss news groups" <srivet@starprintingcorp.com> wrote in
news:9dednQ0SyYAgf-jYnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@conversent.net:
>
>> > (I think I know the answer I just never have good luck bleeding
>> > brakes. open valve, pump brake, close valve, repeat, repeat,
>> > repeat...........)
>>
>> That might be your problem. The sequence is to hold the brake pedal
>> down, then open the bleeder valve. When you open the valve, the
>> brake pedal should go all the way down. Close the valve and then
>> have your assistant reapply pressure to the brake pedal. Repeat the
>> process until you have clean fluid coming out of all 4 cylinders.
>> Check your manual for the proper
>> sequence to bleed each of the wheel cylinders. Note that I like to
>> use a section of clear Tygon style tubing to attach to the bleeder
>> valves to direct the fluid into a waste container. Using clear
>> tubing also facilitates knowing when the fluid is coming out clean
>> and all the air is gone. You should also use a closed ended wrench
>> on the bleeder valves. Using an open ended wrench may strip the
>> bleeder valves as they can get stuck over the years and become
>> difficult to loosen.
>>
>
> You may have a point there!
> I'm also concerned about the master cylinder traveling to an area that
> doesn't usually get used and getting scored then leaking. I think I
> ran into this problem once?...



On a '98 I wouldn't worry too much about that.

And it is correct to apply pressure and hold, THEN open the bleed nipple.
The pedal will go to the floor very fast and you'll hear the thump. Close
nipple, THEN have helper raise pedal. Repeat. Every eight or so pedal-
presses, top up the MC.

Bleed right rear, left front; left rear, right front.
I find bleed sequence isn't really that important anyway, so you could do
rear (any order) then front (any order) if you want.

And if you have ABS, you'll need to bleed twice, once before exercising the
ABS, and once after.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Changing brake fluid ????
 

"comcastss news groups" <srivet@starprintingcorp.com> wrote in
news:9dednQ0SyYAgf-jYnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@conversent.net:
>
>> > (I think I know the answer I just never have good luck bleeding
>> > brakes. open valve, pump brake, close valve, repeat, repeat,
>> > repeat...........)
>>
>> That might be your problem. The sequence is to hold the brake pedal
>> down, then open the bleeder valve. When you open the valve, the
>> brake pedal should go all the way down. Close the valve and then
>> have your assistant reapply pressure to the brake pedal. Repeat the
>> process until you have clean fluid coming out of all 4 cylinders.
>> Check your manual for the proper
>> sequence to bleed each of the wheel cylinders. Note that I like to
>> use a section of clear Tygon style tubing to attach to the bleeder
>> valves to direct the fluid into a waste container. Using clear
>> tubing also facilitates knowing when the fluid is coming out clean
>> and all the air is gone. You should also use a closed ended wrench
>> on the bleeder valves. Using an open ended wrench may strip the
>> bleeder valves as they can get stuck over the years and become
>> difficult to loosen.
>>
>
> You may have a point there!
> I'm also concerned about the master cylinder traveling to an area that
> doesn't usually get used and getting scored then leaking. I think I
> ran into this problem once?...



On a '98 I wouldn't worry too much about that.

And it is correct to apply pressure and hold, THEN open the bleed nipple.
The pedal will go to the floor very fast and you'll hear the thump. Close
nipple, THEN have helper raise pedal. Repeat. Every eight or so pedal-
presses, top up the MC.

Bleed right rear, left front; left rear, right front.
I find bleed sequence isn't really that important anyway, so you could do
rear (any order) then front (any order) if you want.

And if you have ABS, you'll need to bleed twice, once before exercising the
ABS, and once after.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Changing brake fluid ????
 

comcastss news groups wrote:
> You may have a point there!
> I'm also concerned about the master cylinder traveling to an area that
> doesn't usually get used and getting scored then leaking. I think I ran into
> this problem once?...

popular misconception - perhaps from the days of cast iron cylinders and
crappy detroit seals. honda [nissin] use alloy cylinders and very high
quality seals. they last a very long time and are not generally subject
to that kind of problem.

i just rebuilt my master cylinder and posted pics of the reason for the
leak on 11/18 - the car's 17 years old and i doubt the brake fluid had
ever been changed before i bought the car 2.5 years ago. the inside of
the cylinder was perfectly clean and completely un-scored. cylinders
/do/ leak, and this generally coincides with flushing the fluid in the
system, but it's more commonly due to slight changes in the seal when
suddenly subject to fresh fluid chemistry - it shrinks slightly.

bleed the system per the book - pedal to the floor. it is essential
that the cylinder withstand this action - which might be required in
emergency braking. if for some reason it /does/ fail after using full
cylinder travel, the cylinder needs to be replaced or reconditioned, and
it's best you figure that out now rather than "test" it in the wrong
circumstances.

>
>>> (I think I know the answer I just never have good luck bleeding brakes.
>>> open valve, pump brake, close valve, repeat, repeat, repeat...........)
>> That might be your problem. The sequence is to hold the brake pedal down,
>> then open the bleeder valve. When you open the valve, the brake pedal
>> should go all the way down. Close the valve and then have your assistant
>> reapply pressure to the brake pedal. Repeat the process until you have
>> clean fluid coming out of all 4 cylinders. Check your manual for the
> proper
>> sequence to bleed each of the wheel cylinders. Note that I like to use a
>> section of clear Tygon style tubing to attach to the bleeder valves to
>> direct the fluid into a waste container. Using clear tubing also
>> facilitates knowing when the fluid is coming out clean and all the air is
>> gone. You should also use a closed ended wrench on the bleeder valves.
>> Using an open ended wrench may strip the bleeder valves as they can get
>> stuck over the years and become difficult to loosen.
>>
>> Eric
>
>

Re: Changing brake fluid ????
 

comcastss news groups wrote:
> You may have a point there!
> I'm also concerned about the master cylinder traveling to an area that
> doesn't usually get used and getting scored then leaking. I think I ran into
> this problem once?...

popular misconception - perhaps from the days of cast iron cylinders and
crappy detroit seals. honda [nissin] use alloy cylinders and very high
quality seals. they last a very long time and are not generally subject
to that kind of problem.

i just rebuilt my master cylinder and posted pics of the reason for the
leak on 11/18 - the car's 17 years old and i doubt the brake fluid had
ever been changed before i bought the car 2.5 years ago. the inside of
the cylinder was perfectly clean and completely un-scored. cylinders
/do/ leak, and this generally coincides with flushing the fluid in the
system, but it's more commonly due to slight changes in the seal when
suddenly subject to fresh fluid chemistry - it shrinks slightly.

bleed the system per the book - pedal to the floor. it is essential
that the cylinder withstand this action - which might be required in
emergency braking. if for some reason it /does/ fail after using full
cylinder travel, the cylinder needs to be replaced or reconditioned, and
it's best you figure that out now rather than "test" it in the wrong
circumstances.

>
>>> (I think I know the answer I just never have good luck bleeding brakes.
>>> open valve, pump brake, close valve, repeat, repeat, repeat...........)
>> That might be your problem. The sequence is to hold the brake pedal down,
>> then open the bleeder valve. When you open the valve, the brake pedal
>> should go all the way down. Close the valve and then have your assistant
>> reapply pressure to the brake pedal. Repeat the process until you have
>> clean fluid coming out of all 4 cylinders. Check your manual for the
> proper
>> sequence to bleed each of the wheel cylinders. Note that I like to use a
>> section of clear Tygon style tubing to attach to the bleeder valves to
>> direct the fluid into a waste container. Using clear tubing also
>> facilitates knowing when the fluid is coming out clean and all the air is
>> gone. You should also use a closed ended wrench on the bleeder valves.
>> Using an open ended wrench may strip the bleeder valves as they can get
>> stuck over the years and become difficult to loosen.
>>
>> Eric
>
>