Mendel Leisk

I know the official interval for check of the intake/exhaust valve
clearances is way down the road, and now with Honda's Maintenance
Minder there is no official date or mileage specified. Also, Honda
says to only check them sooner along with other services "if they are
noisy". For the record we're around 24000 km's now.

It concerns me that a overly-tight clearance will not be noisy, but is
a possibility, since valves may be riding high on their seats when
new, but after a few thousand kilometers/miles of break-in will be
seating better, and closing up the clearance. I know my Honda
Hurricane motorcycle specified a valve check as part of the first
services.

I have the shop manual, and am thinking to check them. I've checked
valves on a few previous Honda cars we've owned. It's always been
fairly easy to get the valve cover off. With our 06 Civic Hybrid
however, it's looking to be very awkward.

The main problem I see is dealing with the plastic encased wiring
harness that runs along the top of the valve cover. It's cables
continue off at the left (dipstick) and right ends. The left end
cables connect to the dipstick tube. Removing the dipstick and the top
clip between the dipstick tube and cable frees this end up enough to
get it well out of the way of the valve cover.

Things aren't as easy at the right end, though. The right end cables
are thick and go only a short distance, into another plastic encased
harness running vertically down the right side of the engine (the
drive chain end). This vertical harness case also partially obscures
the back right valve cover hold-down bolt. Without getting this
shifted, the only way to get a grip on that back bolt is by reaching
around with an open-end crescent wrench.

It concerns me also that even with all the valve cover bolts removed
and the cover loosened, it will be a fight to get it out from under
the two harnesses. The bolts for this vertical right side harness were
buried beside the air cleaner (see where this is going? ), so I
tried, just as an exercise, taking out the air cleaner. This was a bit
of a fight in itself, but got it done. Then I was able to access the 2
bolts securing that vertical harness. I backed them both out, and then
was able to shift the vertical harness maybe 1/2" to the right, barely
enough to get a proper socket on an extension past the harness and on
to the right rear valve cover bolt.

At that point, I just buttoned everything up, we had to get somewhere.
I'm really not to impressed with the valve cover access. I haven't
mentioned but there are also the (8!) sparkplug actuators to contend
with. The back row (exhaust side) actuators get increasingly awkward
to remove, going left to right. The back right one seems impossible to
remove at first. No matter how you turn and angle it, it's clunking
against the rear lip of the engine compartment or the firewall. It is
a fight. It can be done but it is very close. Getting it back in is
even more fun.

Anyway, that's where I'm at. I do think it is a good idea to an early
valve clearance, but am waffling, not looking forward to it. Anyone
else done this themselves? Any opinions on the value of such an early
check of the valve clearances? Any opinions on the likelihood of there
being a tight valve or two in there, due to break-in and the valves
fitting better on their seats?

Don R

I would leave them alone. We had a 99 Civic that we sold last year that had
90K miles on it and the valves were never touched. It ran great, got good
mileage, and was not noisy. Over the years I've experienced that when the
valves are adjusted at least one of them ends up noisy. We currently have
two Honda's. A 02 Civic and an 07 Accord and I believe Honda maintenanve
says to let them alone unless noisy. Others may disagree but I believe in
not messing with a perfectly good running engine.
"Mendel Leisk" <mendel_leisknospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175959270.737220.242550@w1g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
>I know the official interval for check of the intake/exhaust valve
> clearances is way down the road, and now with Honda's Maintenance
> Minder there is no official date or mileage specified. Also, Honda
> says to only check them sooner along with other services "if they are
> noisy". For the record we're around 24000 km's now.
>
> It concerns me that a overly-tight clearance will not be noisy, but is
> a possibility, since valves may be riding high on their seats when
> new, but after a few thousand kilometers/miles of break-in will be
> seating better, and closing up the clearance. I know my Honda
> Hurricane motorcycle specified a valve check as part of the first
> services.
>
> I have the shop manual, and am thinking to check them. I've checked
> valves on a few previous Honda cars we've owned. It's always been
> fairly easy to get the valve cover off. With our 06 Civic Hybrid
> however, it's looking to be very awkward.
>
> The main problem I see is dealing with the plastic encased wiring
> harness that runs along the top of the valve cover. It's cables
> continue off at the left (dipstick) and right ends. The left end
> cables connect to the dipstick tube. Removing the dipstick and the top
> clip between the dipstick tube and cable frees this end up enough to
> get it well out of the way of the valve cover.
>
> Things aren't as easy at the right end, though. The right end cables
> are thick and go only a short distance, into another plastic encased
> harness running vertically down the right side of the engine (the
> drive chain end). This vertical harness case also partially obscures
> the back right valve cover hold-down bolt. Without getting this
> shifted, the only way to get a grip on that back bolt is by reaching
> around with an open-end crescent wrench.
>
> It concerns me also that even with all the valve cover bolts removed
> and the cover loosened, it will be a fight to get it out from under
> the two harnesses. The bolts for this vertical right side harness were
> buried beside the air cleaner (see where this is going? ), so I
> tried, just as an exercise, taking out the air cleaner. This was a bit
> of a fight in itself, but got it done. Then I was able to access the 2
> bolts securing that vertical harness. I backed them both out, and then
> was able to shift the vertical harness maybe 1/2" to the right, barely
> enough to get a proper socket on an extension past the harness and on
> to the right rear valve cover bolt.
>
> At that point, I just buttoned everything up, we had to get somewhere.
> I'm really not to impressed with the valve cover access. I haven't
> mentioned but there are also the (8!) sparkplug actuators to contend
> with. The back row (exhaust side) actuators get increasingly awkward
> to remove, going left to right. The back right one seems impossible to
> remove at first. No matter how you turn and angle it, it's clunking
> against the rear lip of the engine compartment or the firewall. It is
> a fight. It can be done but it is very close. Getting it back in is
> even more fun.
>
> Anyway, that's where I'm at. I do think it is a good idea to an early
> valve clearance, but am waffling, not looking forward to it. Anyone
> else done this themselves? Any opinions on the value of such an early
> check of the valve clearances? Any opinions on the likelihood of there
> being a tight valve or two in there, due to break-in and the valves
> fitting better on their seats?
>

jim beam

Mendel Leisk wrote:
<snip>
> Anyway, that's where I'm at. I do think it is a good idea to an early
> valve clearance, but am waffling,

waffling? dude, you got verbal diarrhea.

> not looking forward to it. Anyone
> else done this themselves? Any opinions on the value of such an early
> check of the valve clearances? Any opinions on the likelihood of there
> being a tight valve or two in there, due to break-in and the valves
> fitting better on their seats?
>

why not worry about potential for a weak cord in your tire casings too?
bottom line, forget it. if something is wrong, it'll break within the
warranty. [and, as a worrier, i'll bet you bought the extended
warranty.] then the dealer worries about it. not you.

Mendel Leisk

On Apr 7, 9:19 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> Mendel Leisk wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > Anyway, that's where I'm at. I do think it is a good idea to an early
> > valve clearance, but am waffling,
>
> waffling? dude, you got verbal diarrhea.
>
> > not looking forward to it. Anyone
> > else done this themselves? Any opinions on the value of such an early
> > check of the valve clearances? Any opinions on the likelihood of there
> > being a tight valve or two in there, due to break-in and the valves
> > fitting better on their seats?
>
> why not worry about potential for a weak cord in your tire casings too?
> bottom line, forget it. if something is wrong, it'll break within the
> warranty. [and, as a worrier, i'll bet you bought the extended
> warranty.] then the dealer worries about it. not you.

HaHa. Didn't get the extended warranty, or the sealant/undercoat, etc.
But I've got to admit, me with a Shop Manual is like a hyprochondriac
with with a medical Text Book of Symptoms. So I gather the valve
clearance tend to stay pretty stable. Thanks for the info. Yeah, the
engine compartment of the Civic Hybric is like an overstuffed fridge:
everytime you want to get at something, you have to haul half the
stuff out to get at it.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <LLudne93k8Y5WYrbnZ2dnUVZ_tmknZ2d@speakeasy.net> ,
jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:

> why not worry about potential for a weak cord in your tire casings too?

nice!

Mendel Leisk

On Apr 7, 9:05 am, "Don R" <k...@verizon.net> wrote:
> I would leave them alone. We had a 99 Civic that we sold last year that had
> 90K miles on it and the valves were never touched. It ran great, got good
> mileage, and was not noisy. Over the years I've experienced that when the
> valves are adjusted at least one of them ends up noisy. We currently have
> two Honda's. A 02 Civic and an 07 Accord and I believe Honda maintenanve
> says to let them alone unless noisy. Others may disagree but I believe in
> not messing with a perfectly good running engine."Mendel Leisk" <mendel_leisknos...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
A little noise is not a bad thing. The valve clearance is supposed to
be in a certain range, adjusted on a cold engine. If there is a bit of
clearance, there will be a bit of noise. If there's too much
clearance, it'll get really noisy, performance will suffer (valves not
opening suffic. and long enough) and there's a possibility of damage
from the rocker arms "hammering" the valves. OTOH, if there's not
enough, or zero clearance, the engine will run real quiet, but: the
valves won't seat properly, allowing gasses to bypass and not
providing good heat transfer from the valve to the body. This has more
serious consequences than valve that are a bit too loose.

scott

"Mendel Leisk" <mendel_leisknospam@hotmail.com


> Anyway, that's where I'm at. I do think it is a good idea to an early
> valve clearance, but am waffling, not looking forward to it. Anyone
> else done this themselves? Any opinions on the value of such an early
> check of the valve clearances? Any opinions on the likelihood of there
> being a tight valve or two in there, due to break-in and the valves
> fitting better on their seats?
>

Hi
I thought the same thing, let me share my experience with a 2002 Civic.
After two years and about 15,000 miles I was thinking the same thing you
were. My car is a lot easier to get to the valves, though.
After all the disassembly to get to the valves, I started adjusting away,
and after checking and adjusting four rockers I realised that every one I
had checked was exactly 0.001" tight. About this time I thought if they are
all like this I should have left them alone, they will probably wear in to
the right clearance in a few tens of thousands of miles . I then realised
that the factory probably had this in mind all along. All the others were
exactly 0.001" tight also. A total waste of time but for the peace of mind.
If I ever get a new Honda again I won't waste my time. And my experience
with this car will probably result in another Honda purchase. The only
things I spend money on with this car are gas, oil and the oem tires are
due for replacement (curently ~25,000 miles and weather cracked and I don't
think I would want to take them on a long highway trip). Over all I am very
happy with my car.
Scott

Mendel Leisk

On Apr 7, 11:03 am, scott <s...@screwspambots.net> wrote:
> "Mendel Leisk" <mendel_leisknos...@hotmail.com
>
> > Anyway, that's where I'm at. I do think it is a good idea to an early
> > valve clearance, but am waffling, not looking forward to it. Anyone
> > else done this themselves? Any opinions on the value of such an early
> > check of the valve clearances? Any opinions on the likelihood of there
> > being a tight valve or two in there, due to break-in and the valves
> > fitting better on their seats?
>
> Hi
> I thought the same thing, let me share my experience with a 2002 Civic.
> After two years and about 15,000 miles I was thinking the same thing you
> were. My car is a lot easier to get to the valves, though.
> After all the disassembly to get to the valves, I started adjusting away,
> and after checking and adjusting four rockers I realised that every one I
> had checked was exactly 0.001" tight. About this time I thought if they are
> all like this I should have left them alone, they will probably wear in to
> the right clearance in a few tens of thousands of miles . I then realised
> that the factory probably had this in mind all along. All the others were
> exactly 0.001" tight also. A total waste of time but for the peace of mind.
> If I ever get a new Honda again I won't waste my time. And my experience
> with this car will probably result in another Honda purchase. The only
> things I spend money on with this car are gas, oil and the oem tires are
> due for replacement (curently ~25,000 miles and weather cracked and I don't
> think I would want to take them on a long highway trip). Over all I am very
> happy with my car.
> Scott

Thanks for sharing your experience, Scott. So basically, you found
your clearances were still close to spec., around the same mileage as
we currently have.

As to the factory's strategy to set them a little tight, I'm not sure.
My guess is they would set them right on spec., but not sure. Valve
clearances can tighten (not just loosen), as the valve seats itself
more uniformly. Though in my experience, I can't recollect that
happening, it usually *was* the case that they got a bit looser. Also,
I found once I'd set them all back to spec., they tended to stay
there. This was on 83, 86 and 91 Accords, back a few years. I did a
few checks where I adjusted only one or two.

Just speculating: the factory set them exactly on spec. By the time
you checked them, the clearances had reduced slightly, due to the
valves seating better, and riding up to be a little closer to the
rocker arm. A little further down the road, due to rocker arm wear and
loosening, they will loosen off a bit.