Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
06-05-2004, 05:41 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's
crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that helps
retain the power steering belt. I did this trying to get the crankshaft pulley
bolt off (as I want to go after some seals that will require this soon) but with
a bit too much jury-rigging, obviously. After putting everything back together,
I took the car for a short drive. It sounds fine. Still, I am somewhat concerned
about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around with a
chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be taking?
A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a few
salvage yards for less, if need be.
crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that helps
retain the power steering belt. I did this trying to get the crankshaft pulley
bolt off (as I want to go after some seals that will require this soon) but with
a bit too much jury-rigging, obviously. After putting everything back together,
I took the car for a short drive. It sounds fine. Still, I am somewhat concerned
about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around with a
chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be taking?
A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a few
salvage yards for less, if need be.
06-06-2004, 01:41 AM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
In article <56rwc.22529$Tn6.20740@newsread1.news.pas.earthlin k.net>,
"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's
> crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that
> helps
> retain the power steering belt. I did this trying to get the crankshaft
> pulley
> bolt off (as I want to go after some seals that will require this soon) but
> with
> a bit too much jury-rigging, obviously. After putting everything back
> together,
> I took the car for a short drive. It sounds fine. Still, I am somewhat
> concerned
> about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around with
> a
> chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be taking?
>
> A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a few
> salvage yards for less, if need be.
I broke a chunk off the pulley of a Toyota Tercel and it was OK. Your
car is old so the damage probably isn't significant compared to general
aging problems.
Somebody might weld it and grind it into shape for about $20.
"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's
> crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that
> helps
> retain the power steering belt. I did this trying to get the crankshaft
> pulley
> bolt off (as I want to go after some seals that will require this soon) but
> with
> a bit too much jury-rigging, obviously. After putting everything back
> together,
> I took the car for a short drive. It sounds fine. Still, I am somewhat
> concerned
> about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around with
> a
> chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be taking?
>
> A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a few
> salvage yards for less, if need be.
I broke a chunk off the pulley of a Toyota Tercel and it was OK. Your
car is old so the damage probably isn't significant compared to general
aging problems.
Somebody might weld it and grind it into shape for about $20.
06-06-2004, 03:29 AM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 21:41:21 GMT, "Caroline"
<caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's
>crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that helps
>retain the power steering belt. I did this trying to get the crankshaft pulley
>bolt off (as I want to go after some seals that will require this soon) but with
>a bit too much jury-rigging, obviously. After putting everything back together,
>I took the car for a short drive. It sounds fine. Still, I am somewhat concerned
>about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around with a
>chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be taking?
I don't think any weight imbalance will bother you but I'd be more
concerned that any ragged edge could chew up the belt - keep your eye on
it. The other thing is that whatever you were doing around the rim of the
pulley, any force there, could have damaged the rubber damping material
which is bonded between the pulley rim and hub. It's there to damp out
vibrations which can damage crankshaft bearings.
>A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a few
>salvage yards for less, if need be.
I'm not sure about relative sizes but, rather than getting the exact same
pulley, it'd be worth looking for a replacement with a 50mm hex socket in
it... *if* there's one available in the right diameter. Then you'll be
able to use a pulley holder tool in future.
Rgds, George Macdonald
"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
<caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's
>crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that helps
>retain the power steering belt. I did this trying to get the crankshaft pulley
>bolt off (as I want to go after some seals that will require this soon) but with
>a bit too much jury-rigging, obviously. After putting everything back together,
>I took the car for a short drive. It sounds fine. Still, I am somewhat concerned
>about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around with a
>chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be taking?
I don't think any weight imbalance will bother you but I'd be more
concerned that any ragged edge could chew up the belt - keep your eye on
it. The other thing is that whatever you were doing around the rim of the
pulley, any force there, could have damaged the rubber damping material
which is bonded between the pulley rim and hub. It's there to damp out
vibrations which can damage crankshaft bearings.
>A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a few
>salvage yards for less, if need be.
I'm not sure about relative sizes but, rather than getting the exact same
pulley, it'd be worth looking for a replacement with a 50mm hex socket in
it... *if* there's one available in the right diameter. Then you'll be
able to use a pulley holder tool in future.
Rgds, George Macdonald
"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
06-06-2004, 04:29 AM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
George Macdonald wrote:
>
> I don't think any weight imbalance will bother you but I'd be more
> concerned that any ragged edge could chew up the belt - keep your eye on
> it. The other thing is that whatever you were doing around the rim of the
> pulley, any force there, could have damaged the rubber damping material
> which is bonded between the pulley rim and hub. It's there to damp out
> vibrations which can damage crankshaft bearings.
Just so you know, a '91 Civic has a solid pulley. There's no rubber damping
material as on the Accords of the same year.
Eric
>
> I don't think any weight imbalance will bother you but I'd be more
> concerned that any ragged edge could chew up the belt - keep your eye on
> it. The other thing is that whatever you were doing around the rim of the
> pulley, any force there, could have damaged the rubber damping material
> which is bonded between the pulley rim and hub. It's there to damp out
> vibrations which can damage crankshaft bearings.
Just so you know, a '91 Civic has a solid pulley. There's no rubber damping
material as on the Accords of the same year.
Eric
06-06-2004, 10:15 AM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
> George Macdonald wrote:
> >
> > I don't think any weight imbalance will bother you but I'd be more
> > concerned that any ragged edge could chew up the belt - keep your eye on
> > it. The other thing is that whatever you were doing around the rim of the
> > pulley, any force there, could have damaged the rubber damping material
> > which is bonded between the pulley rim and hub. It's there to damp out
> > vibrations which can damage crankshaft bearings.
>
> Just so you know, a '91 Civic has a solid pulley. There's no rubber damping
> material as on the Accords of the same year.
Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power steering
belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the current
pulley with other Honda models' 50 mm (or so?) hex socket version. After a lot
of reading on this over the last few months, I know what you're talking about.
I'm seeing tools for my pulley for some $70 or so, while the other pulley holder
tool can be had for under $30.
For posterity--
I'm going to try to fabricate a better tool in the next few days, along the
lines of what Eric has described in the past. I tried the two high grade, fine
thread bolts (with nuts) in the pulley periphery holes and then jamming various
bars/pipes between them in the suspension, like that shown at
http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html , but the pulley on the
car pictured there is a little different. I got too much 'play' with the bolt
setup, and so while proceeding slowly things kept slipping at the pulley. (The
web sites's two ten-inch long, 1/2 inch extensions, supported by a jack with a
long breaker bar and then a five-foot pipe extension on the breaker bar, worked
well, though. I should easily get the necessary torque, once I get the pulley
secured.)
> George Macdonald wrote:
> >
> > I don't think any weight imbalance will bother you but I'd be more
> > concerned that any ragged edge could chew up the belt - keep your eye on
> > it. The other thing is that whatever you were doing around the rim of the
> > pulley, any force there, could have damaged the rubber damping material
> > which is bonded between the pulley rim and hub. It's there to damp out
> > vibrations which can damage crankshaft bearings.
>
> Just so you know, a '91 Civic has a solid pulley. There's no rubber damping
> material as on the Accords of the same year.
Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power steering
belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the current
pulley with other Honda models' 50 mm (or so?) hex socket version. After a lot
of reading on this over the last few months, I know what you're talking about.
I'm seeing tools for my pulley for some $70 or so, while the other pulley holder
tool can be had for under $30.
For posterity--
I'm going to try to fabricate a better tool in the next few days, along the
lines of what Eric has described in the past. I tried the two high grade, fine
thread bolts (with nuts) in the pulley periphery holes and then jamming various
bars/pipes between them in the suspension, like that shown at
http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html , but the pulley on the
car pictured there is a little different. I got too much 'play' with the bolt
setup, and so while proceeding slowly things kept slipping at the pulley. (The
web sites's two ten-inch long, 1/2 inch extensions, supported by a jack with a
long breaker bar and then a five-foot pipe extension on the breaker bar, worked
well, though. I should easily get the necessary torque, once I get the pulley
secured.)
06-06-2004, 10:35 AM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
Do you have the old piece, if so I would get some JB Weld, rotate the pulley
to a position where it could be refastened with JB Weld, and let it sit over
night.
If a little of the cement squishes out to the belt side, it may be possible
to remove it with sandpaper after it drys.
Tom.
"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:56rwc.22529$Tn6.20740@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net...
> I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's
> crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that
helps
> retain the power steering belt. I did this trying to get the crankshaft
pulley
> bolt off (as I want to go after some seals that will require this soon)
but with
> a bit too much jury-rigging, obviously. After putting everything back
together,
> I took the car for a short drive. It sounds fine. Still, I am somewhat
concerned
> about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around
with a
> chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be
taking?
>
> A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a
few
> salvage yards for less, if need be.
>
>
to a position where it could be refastened with JB Weld, and let it sit over
night.
If a little of the cement squishes out to the belt side, it may be possible
to remove it with sandpaper after it drys.
Tom.
"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:56rwc.22529$Tn6.20740@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net...
> I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's
> crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that
helps
> retain the power steering belt. I did this trying to get the crankshaft
pulley
> bolt off (as I want to go after some seals that will require this soon)
but with
> a bit too much jury-rigging, obviously. After putting everything back
together,
> I took the car for a short drive. It sounds fine. Still, I am somewhat
concerned
> about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around
with a
> chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be
taking?
>
> A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a
few
> salvage yards for less, if need be.
>
>
06-06-2004, 10:46 AM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
"tflfb" wrote:
> Do you have the old piece, if so I would get some JB Weld, rotate the pulley
> to a position where it could be refastened with JB Weld, and let it sit over
> night.
>
> If a little of the cement squishes out to the belt side, it may be possible
> to remove it with sandpaper after it drys.
Yes, I do have the old piece. I'll read up on JB Weld's strength characteristics
and assess the risk if the "weld" does not hold and the little piece goes flying
off. (It's about 1.5" of pulley arc length" x 9/16" x 1/8".) Thanks.
> Do you have the old piece, if so I would get some JB Weld, rotate the pulley
> to a position where it could be refastened with JB Weld, and let it sit over
> night.
>
> If a little of the cement squishes out to the belt side, it may be possible
> to remove it with sandpaper after it drys.
Yes, I do have the old piece. I'll read up on JB Weld's strength characteristics
and assess the risk if the "weld" does not hold and the little piece goes flying
off. (It's about 1.5" of pulley arc length" x 9/16" x 1/8".) Thanks.
06-06-2004, 05:15 PM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
i have a chipped pulley , n o problems with it.
"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:56rwc.22529$Tn6.20740@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net...
>I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's
> crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that
> helps
> retain the power steering belt. I did this trying to get the crankshaft
> pulley
> bolt off (as I want to go after some seals that will require this soon)
> but with
> a bit too much jury-rigging, obviously. After putting everything back
> together,
> I took the car for a short drive. It sounds fine. Still, I am somewhat
> concerned
> about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around
> with a
> chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be
> taking?
>
> A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a
> few
> salvage yards for less, if need be.
>
>
06-06-2004, 08:07 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 14:15:12 GMT, "Caroline"
<caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:
>"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
>> George Macdonald wrote:
>> >
>> > I don't think any weight imbalance will bother you but I'd be more
>> > concerned that any ragged edge could chew up the belt - keep your eye on
>> > it. The other thing is that whatever you were doing around the rim of the
>> > pulley, any force there, could have damaged the rubber damping material
>> > which is bonded between the pulley rim and hub. It's there to damp out
>> > vibrations which can damage crankshaft bearings.
>>
>> Just so you know, a '91 Civic has a solid pulley. There's no rubber damping
>> material as on the Accords of the same year.
Sure about that? Just because you can't see any rubber band doesn't mean
it's not there.
>Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power steering
>belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the current
>pulley with other Honda models' 50 mm (or so?) hex socket version. After a lot
>of reading on this over the last few months, I know what you're talking about.
>I'm seeing tools for my pulley for some $70 or so, while the other pulley holder
>tool can be had for under $30.
It's 50mm according to service manuals. I hadn't seen any tools for the
pulleys without the hex socket in it - that'd be interesting to have as a
reference here.
Rgds, George Macdonald
"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
<caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:
>"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
>> George Macdonald wrote:
>> >
>> > I don't think any weight imbalance will bother you but I'd be more
>> > concerned that any ragged edge could chew up the belt - keep your eye on
>> > it. The other thing is that whatever you were doing around the rim of the
>> > pulley, any force there, could have damaged the rubber damping material
>> > which is bonded between the pulley rim and hub. It's there to damp out
>> > vibrations which can damage crankshaft bearings.
>>
>> Just so you know, a '91 Civic has a solid pulley. There's no rubber damping
>> material as on the Accords of the same year.
Sure about that? Just because you can't see any rubber band doesn't mean
it's not there.
>Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power steering
>belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the current
>pulley with other Honda models' 50 mm (or so?) hex socket version. After a lot
>of reading on this over the last few months, I know what you're talking about.
>I'm seeing tools for my pulley for some $70 or so, while the other pulley holder
>tool can be had for under $30.
It's 50mm according to service manuals. I hadn't seen any tools for the
pulleys without the hex socket in it - that'd be interesting to have as a
reference here.
Rgds, George Macdonald
"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
06-06-2004, 08:45 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote
Caroline wrote
snip
> >Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power steering
> >belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the
current
> >pulley with other Honda models' 50 mm (or so?) hex socket version. After a
lot
> >of reading on this over the last few months, I know what you're talking
about.
> >I'm seeing tools for my pulley for some $70 or so, while the other pulley
holder
> >tool can be had for under $30.
>
> It's 50mm according to service manuals. I hadn't seen any tools for the
> pulleys without the hex socket in it - that'd be interesting to have as a
> reference here.
http://www.etoolcart.com/browseprodu...lder---SIRHO60
..HTML
Also, from the popular UK Honda manual site:
http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-26.pdf
and how it's used, more or less (lower right corner of page):
http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-27.pdf
My 91 Civic crankshaft pulley has quite the lip on it where the power steering
belt goes. The lip is bowl-shaped, too, meaning bolting a flat bar (part of my
proposed crankshaft pulley holding tool) to the pulley puts stress on the lip,
if you can picture this.
I JB Welded the 0.3 oz. chunk of pulley that came off yesterday. My calculations
say it should hold easily, if JB Weld does not lie about the strength of its
stuff. OTOH, I'm quite confident of the high probability it will chip off again
(or another piece will chip off) when I bolt the tool I'm making (Eric's design,
more or less) to it and apply, yup, over 200 ft-lbs so far to the pulley bolt by
my rough calculations. I bear in mind I might need lots more.
I've been resisting the air impact wrench because clearly I'm going to need a
serious one, so it will be a rental to save bucks. Also, I confess after bending
one grade 8 bolt yesterday in this effort, and thinking about the force this is
going to take, I am starting to think Curly's (tongue-in-cheek?) caution about
handling such a heavy duty air impact wrench should be taken seriously. I don't
know. A guy can't be that much stronger than me. But we've been over this, ad
nauseam...
I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft pulleys
with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I suspect the
pulley I have now is not going to survive my latest foray into car repairs. :-)
(No, I don't have money to throw away, but I do have pretty surely a leaking
crank seal, albeit a very slow leak. More worried about the timing belt getting
oily than anything else.) My pulley's overall diameter is about 5.5 inches; the
power steering belt wheel diameter is about 3.5 inches, for starters. Anyone
having a crankshaft pulley laying around with the 50 mm hex design, etc., do
post the dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I
dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?)
Caroline wrote
snip
> >Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power steering
> >belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the
current
> >pulley with other Honda models' 50 mm (or so?) hex socket version. After a
lot
> >of reading on this over the last few months, I know what you're talking
about.
> >I'm seeing tools for my pulley for some $70 or so, while the other pulley
holder
> >tool can be had for under $30.
>
> It's 50mm according to service manuals. I hadn't seen any tools for the
> pulleys without the hex socket in it - that'd be interesting to have as a
> reference here.
http://www.etoolcart.com/browseprodu...lder---SIRHO60
..HTML
Also, from the popular UK Honda manual site:
http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-26.pdf
and how it's used, more or less (lower right corner of page):
http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-27.pdf
My 91 Civic crankshaft pulley has quite the lip on it where the power steering
belt goes. The lip is bowl-shaped, too, meaning bolting a flat bar (part of my
proposed crankshaft pulley holding tool) to the pulley puts stress on the lip,
if you can picture this.
I JB Welded the 0.3 oz. chunk of pulley that came off yesterday. My calculations
say it should hold easily, if JB Weld does not lie about the strength of its
stuff. OTOH, I'm quite confident of the high probability it will chip off again
(or another piece will chip off) when I bolt the tool I'm making (Eric's design,
more or less) to it and apply, yup, over 200 ft-lbs so far to the pulley bolt by
my rough calculations. I bear in mind I might need lots more.
I've been resisting the air impact wrench because clearly I'm going to need a
serious one, so it will be a rental to save bucks. Also, I confess after bending
one grade 8 bolt yesterday in this effort, and thinking about the force this is
going to take, I am starting to think Curly's (tongue-in-cheek?) caution about
handling such a heavy duty air impact wrench should be taken seriously. I don't
know. A guy can't be that much stronger than me. But we've been over this, ad
nauseam...
I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft pulleys
with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I suspect the
pulley I have now is not going to survive my latest foray into car repairs. :-)
(No, I don't have money to throw away, but I do have pretty surely a leaking
crank seal, albeit a very slow leak. More worried about the timing belt getting
oily than anything else.) My pulley's overall diameter is about 5.5 inches; the
power steering belt wheel diameter is about 3.5 inches, for starters. Anyone
having a crankshaft pulley laying around with the 50 mm hex design, etc., do
post the dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I
dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?)
06-07-2004, 03:17 AM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 00:45:22 GMT, "Caroline"
<caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:
>"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote
>Caroline wrote
>snip
>> >Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power steering
>> >belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the
>current
>> >pulley with other Honda models' 50 mm (or so?) hex socket version. After a
>lot
>> >of reading on this over the last few months, I know what you're talking
>about.
>> >I'm seeing tools for my pulley for some $70 or so, while the other pulley
>holder
>> >tool can be had for under $30.
>>
>> It's 50mm according to service manuals. I hadn't seen any tools for the
>> pulleys without the hex socket in it - that'd be interesting to have as a
>> reference here.
>
>http://www.etoolcart.com/browseprodu...lder---SIRHO60
>.HTML
>
>Also, from the popular UK Honda manual site:
>
>http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-26.pdf
>
>and how it's used, more or less (lower right corner of page):
>
>http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-27.pdf
Now that *is* interesting - never seen such a tool in a U.S. Honda manual
but of course, I've umm, missed a few... anybody else seen this bugger
mentioned?
>My 91 Civic crankshaft pulley has quite the lip on it where the power steering
>belt goes. The lip is bowl-shaped, too, meaning bolting a flat bar (part of my
>proposed crankshaft pulley holding tool) to the pulley puts stress on the lip,
>if you can picture this.
>
>I JB Welded the 0.3 oz. chunk of pulley that came off yesterday. My calculations
>say it should hold easily, if JB Weld does not lie about the strength of its
>stuff. OTOH, I'm quite confident of the high probability it will chip off again
>(or another piece will chip off) when I bolt the tool I'm making (Eric's design,
>more or less) to it and apply, yup, over 200 ft-lbs so far to the pulley bolt by
>my rough calculations. I bear in mind I might need lots more.
>
>I've been resisting the air impact wrench because clearly I'm going to need a
>serious one, so it will be a rental to save bucks. Also, I confess after bending
>one grade 8 bolt yesterday in this effort, and thinking about the force this is
>going to take, I am starting to think Curly's (tongue-in-cheek?) caution about
>handling such a heavy duty air impact wrench should be taken seriously. I don't
>know. A guy can't be that much stronger than me. But we've been over this, ad
>nauseam...
In recent Honda manuals, where they show the holding tool, there is
specific advice to *not* use an impact wrench. It's something which has
always bothered me - the thought of the bearings getting pounded and the
valve gear flapping around.
>I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft pulleys
>with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I suspect the
>pulley I have now is not going to survive my latest foray into car repairs. :-)
>(No, I don't have money to throw away, but I do have pretty surely a leaking
>crank seal, albeit a very slow leak. More worried about the timing belt getting
>oily than anything else.) My pulley's overall diameter is about 5.5 inches; the
>power steering belt wheel diameter is about 3.5 inches, for starters. Anyone
>having a crankshaft pulley laying around with the 50 mm hex design, etc., do
>post the dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I
>dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?)
Sorry I don't know but what I do know is that there were some model years
which had the hex socket in the pulley and the info on when it appeared is
vague/imprecise and sometimes wrong. If you look at the Schley tool models
and years shown here:
http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?P...ROD&ProdID=629 it says
that the 1.8L Integra engine didn't have the hex fitting till '94 and yet,
to my great relief, my '92 had it. If someone knows the relative sizes of
'91 vs. '92 Civic pulleys, that might give a starting point for a junkyard
search.
Rgds, George Macdonald
"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
<caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:
>"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote
>Caroline wrote
>snip
>> >Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power steering
>> >belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the
>current
>> >pulley with other Honda models' 50 mm (or so?) hex socket version. After a
>lot
>> >of reading on this over the last few months, I know what you're talking
>about.
>> >I'm seeing tools for my pulley for some $70 or so, while the other pulley
>holder
>> >tool can be had for under $30.
>>
>> It's 50mm according to service manuals. I hadn't seen any tools for the
>> pulleys without the hex socket in it - that'd be interesting to have as a
>> reference here.
>
>http://www.etoolcart.com/browseprodu...lder---SIRHO60
>.HTML
>
>Also, from the popular UK Honda manual site:
>
>http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-26.pdf
>
>and how it's used, more or less (lower right corner of page):
>
>http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-27.pdf
Now that *is* interesting - never seen such a tool in a U.S. Honda manual
but of course, I've umm, missed a few... anybody else seen this bugger
mentioned?
>My 91 Civic crankshaft pulley has quite the lip on it where the power steering
>belt goes. The lip is bowl-shaped, too, meaning bolting a flat bar (part of my
>proposed crankshaft pulley holding tool) to the pulley puts stress on the lip,
>if you can picture this.
>
>I JB Welded the 0.3 oz. chunk of pulley that came off yesterday. My calculations
>say it should hold easily, if JB Weld does not lie about the strength of its
>stuff. OTOH, I'm quite confident of the high probability it will chip off again
>(or another piece will chip off) when I bolt the tool I'm making (Eric's design,
>more or less) to it and apply, yup, over 200 ft-lbs so far to the pulley bolt by
>my rough calculations. I bear in mind I might need lots more.
>
>I've been resisting the air impact wrench because clearly I'm going to need a
>serious one, so it will be a rental to save bucks. Also, I confess after bending
>one grade 8 bolt yesterday in this effort, and thinking about the force this is
>going to take, I am starting to think Curly's (tongue-in-cheek?) caution about
>handling such a heavy duty air impact wrench should be taken seriously. I don't
>know. A guy can't be that much stronger than me. But we've been over this, ad
>nauseam...
In recent Honda manuals, where they show the holding tool, there is
specific advice to *not* use an impact wrench. It's something which has
always bothered me - the thought of the bearings getting pounded and the
valve gear flapping around.
>I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft pulleys
>with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I suspect the
>pulley I have now is not going to survive my latest foray into car repairs. :-)
>(No, I don't have money to throw away, but I do have pretty surely a leaking
>crank seal, albeit a very slow leak. More worried about the timing belt getting
>oily than anything else.) My pulley's overall diameter is about 5.5 inches; the
>power steering belt wheel diameter is about 3.5 inches, for starters. Anyone
>having a crankshaft pulley laying around with the 50 mm hex design, etc., do
>post the dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I
>dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?)
Sorry I don't know but what I do know is that there were some model years
which had the hex socket in the pulley and the info on when it appeared is
vague/imprecise and sometimes wrong. If you look at the Schley tool models
and years shown here:
http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?P...ROD&ProdID=629 it says
that the 1.8L Integra engine didn't have the hex fitting till '94 and yet,
to my great relief, my '92 had it. If someone knows the relative sizes of
'91 vs. '92 Civic pulleys, that might give a starting point for a junkyard
search.
Rgds, George Macdonald
"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
06-07-2004, 05:20 AM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
Caroline wrote:
> My 91 Civic crankshaft pulley has quite the lip on it where the power
> steering belt goes. The lip is bowl-shaped, too, meaning bolting a flat
> bar (part of my proposed crankshaft pulley holding tool) to the pulley
> puts stress on the lip, if you can picture this.
>
> I JB Welded the 0.3 oz. chunk of pulley that came off yesterday. My
> calculations say it should hold easily, if JB Weld does not lie about the
> strength of its stuff. OTOH, I'm quite confident of the high probability
> it will chip off again (or another piece will chip off) when I bolt the
> tool I'm making (Eric's design, more or less) to it and apply, yup, over
> 200 ft-lbs so far to the pulley bolt by my rough calculations. I bear in
> mind I might need lots more.
>
> I've been resisting the air impact wrench because clearly I'm going to
> need a serious one, so it will be a rental to save bucks. Also, I confess
> after bending one grade 8 bolt yesterday in this effort, and thinking
> about the force this is going to take, I am starting to think Curly's
> (tongue-in-cheek?) caution about handling such a heavy duty air impact
> wrench should be taken seriously. I don't know. A guy can't be that much
> stronger than me. But we've been over this, ad nauseam...
>
> I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft
> pulleys with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I
> suspect the pulley I have now is not going to survive my latest foray
> into car repairs. :-) (No, I don't have money to throw away, but I do have
> pretty surely a leaking crank seal, albeit a very slow leak. More worried
> about the timing belt getting oily than anything else.) My pulley's
> overall diameter is about 5.5 inches; the power steering belt wheel
> diameter is about 3.5 inches, for starters. Anyone having a crankshaft
> pulley laying around with the 50 mm hex design, etc., do post the
> dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I
> dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?)
OK, it seems that you have a different crank pulley than the one that I have
on my '88 Civic. Mine does not have the extra lip for the power steering
belt. It only has capacity for the alternator and AC belts. Both of these
belt wheels (or whatever you wish to call them) are about the same
diameter. The AC belt wheel has a nice flat lip on it. The tool I made for
my car didn't damage the pulley in any appreciable way.
If it were my unit, I would buy the appropriate holding tool from the
etoolcart website and replace the damaged pulley with one of the correct
design for your car from a wrecking yard. I don't know for certain, but it
could be that the nose of the crankshaft is different on cars that used the
later pulley design with the 50mm hex. I do know that on a '90 Accord
(which uses the later pulley design) the keyway for the woodruf key is quite
different than it is on my Civic. This difference would likely make using a
later pulley impossible.
Eric
> My 91 Civic crankshaft pulley has quite the lip on it where the power
> steering belt goes. The lip is bowl-shaped, too, meaning bolting a flat
> bar (part of my proposed crankshaft pulley holding tool) to the pulley
> puts stress on the lip, if you can picture this.
>
> I JB Welded the 0.3 oz. chunk of pulley that came off yesterday. My
> calculations say it should hold easily, if JB Weld does not lie about the
> strength of its stuff. OTOH, I'm quite confident of the high probability
> it will chip off again (or another piece will chip off) when I bolt the
> tool I'm making (Eric's design, more or less) to it and apply, yup, over
> 200 ft-lbs so far to the pulley bolt by my rough calculations. I bear in
> mind I might need lots more.
>
> I've been resisting the air impact wrench because clearly I'm going to
> need a serious one, so it will be a rental to save bucks. Also, I confess
> after bending one grade 8 bolt yesterday in this effort, and thinking
> about the force this is going to take, I am starting to think Curly's
> (tongue-in-cheek?) caution about handling such a heavy duty air impact
> wrench should be taken seriously. I don't know. A guy can't be that much
> stronger than me. But we've been over this, ad nauseam...
>
> I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft
> pulleys with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I
> suspect the pulley I have now is not going to survive my latest foray
> into car repairs. :-) (No, I don't have money to throw away, but I do have
> pretty surely a leaking crank seal, albeit a very slow leak. More worried
> about the timing belt getting oily than anything else.) My pulley's
> overall diameter is about 5.5 inches; the power steering belt wheel
> diameter is about 3.5 inches, for starters. Anyone having a crankshaft
> pulley laying around with the 50 mm hex design, etc., do post the
> dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I
> dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?)
OK, it seems that you have a different crank pulley than the one that I have
on my '88 Civic. Mine does not have the extra lip for the power steering
belt. It only has capacity for the alternator and AC belts. Both of these
belt wheels (or whatever you wish to call them) are about the same
diameter. The AC belt wheel has a nice flat lip on it. The tool I made for
my car didn't damage the pulley in any appreciable way.
If it were my unit, I would buy the appropriate holding tool from the
etoolcart website and replace the damaged pulley with one of the correct
design for your car from a wrecking yard. I don't know for certain, but it
could be that the nose of the crankshaft is different on cars that used the
later pulley design with the 50mm hex. I do know that on a '90 Accord
(which uses the later pulley design) the keyway for the woodruf key is quite
different than it is on my Civic. This difference would likely make using a
later pulley impossible.
Eric
06-07-2004, 11:29 AM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote
Caroline wrote
> >> It's 50mm according to service manuals. I hadn't seen any tools for the
> >> pulleys without the hex socket in it - that'd be interesting to have as a
> >> reference here.
> >
>
>http://www.etoolcart.com/browseprodu...older---SIRHO6
0
> >.HTML
> >
> >Also, from the popular UK Honda manual site:
> >
> >http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-26.pdf
> >
> >and how it's used, more or less (lower right corner of page):
> >
> >http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-27.pdf
>
> Now that *is* interesting - never seen such a tool in a U.S. Honda manual
> but of course, I've umm, missed a few... anybody else seen this bugger
> mentioned?
I should have noted that I am not 100% sure these are the right tools for my
1991 Civic. The Concerto engine seems to be the same as the 91 Civic's. The
tools shown at each of the two sites look like they work the same way. I know
for sure I don't have any 50 mm hex setup, as I've seen in drawings of other
crankshaft pulleys. I know a special tool is appropriate and have seen no other
than those shown at the links above.
Chilton's doesn't mention this tool, either.
I should have also added that, as I look at this tool, I don't know that I could
get the necessary torque even with it. It really doesn't give me much more hope
than the tool I'm in the process of fabricating now.
Another nudge in the direction of researching interchangeability of crank
pulleys.
snip
> >I've been resisting the air impact wrench because clearly I'm going to need a
> >serious one, so it will be a rental to save bucks.
snip
> In recent Honda manuals, where they show the holding tool, there is
> specific advice to *not* use an impact wrench. It's something which has
> always bothered me - the thought of the bearings getting pounded and the
> valve gear flapping around.
I remember this coming up before. IIRC I have seen this warning at a few sites
(not searching for it; just happened on it). But so many people seemed to
ignore it, or IIRC we made some distinction between an impact hammer and an air
wrench, that I figured... But perhaps I figure wrong.
One more reason to hold back on an impact wrench.
> >I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft
pulleys
> >with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I suspect the
> >pulley I have now is not going to survive my latest foray into car repairs.
:-)
> >(No, I don't have money to throw away, but I do have pretty surely a leaking
> >crank seal, albeit a very slow leak. More worried about the timing belt
getting
> >oily than anything else.) My pulley's overall diameter is about 5.5 inches;
the
> >power steering belt wheel diameter is about 3.5 inches, for starters. Anyone
> >having a crankshaft pulley laying around with the 50 mm hex design, etc., do
> >post the dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I
> >dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?)
>
> Sorry I don't know but what I do know is that there were some model years
> which had the hex socket in the pulley and the info on when it appeared is
> vague/imprecise and sometimes wrong. If you look at the Schley tool models
> and years shown here:
> http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?P...ROD&ProdID=629 it says
> that the 1.8L Integra engine didn't have the hex fitting till '94 and yet,
> to my great relief, my '92 had it. If someone knows the relative sizes of
> '91 vs. '92 Civic pulleys, that might give a starting point for a junkyard
> search.
What's killing me also is online drawings don't even give me a clue. E.g. at
Majestic's site, the drawing http://tinyurl.com/23qjb of the crankshaft pulley
is not accurate, shape-wise. The circumferential holes are actually *outside*
the circumference of the power steering belt wheel. That is, the holes sit on a
larger diameter than the diameter of the power steering belt wheel.
Fortunately I know of one salvage yard that has parts like this literally on
shelves in a huge warehouse. They can easily pull them down so I can take some
measurements. Or they might even know if this is do-able.
This is recreation for me at this point. I'm going to button my car back up
today, drive it to see how my "JB Weld" fix works, and reflect on this whole
pulley holder problem for a week or so. Not down about it. It's mostly
avocational at this point. Of course, if my timing belt fails next month because
of this tiny leak near/at the front crank seal, I'll be eating my words pronto.
:-)
Thanks as always for sharing your pithy experience, George.
Caroline wrote
> >> It's 50mm according to service manuals. I hadn't seen any tools for the
> >> pulleys without the hex socket in it - that'd be interesting to have as a
> >> reference here.
> >
>
>http://www.etoolcart.com/browseprodu...older---SIRHO6
0
> >.HTML
> >
> >Also, from the popular UK Honda manual site:
> >
> >http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-26.pdf
> >
> >and how it's used, more or less (lower right corner of page):
> >
> >http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-27.pdf
>
> Now that *is* interesting - never seen such a tool in a U.S. Honda manual
> but of course, I've umm, missed a few... anybody else seen this bugger
> mentioned?
I should have noted that I am not 100% sure these are the right tools for my
1991 Civic. The Concerto engine seems to be the same as the 91 Civic's. The
tools shown at each of the two sites look like they work the same way. I know
for sure I don't have any 50 mm hex setup, as I've seen in drawings of other
crankshaft pulleys. I know a special tool is appropriate and have seen no other
than those shown at the links above.
Chilton's doesn't mention this tool, either.
I should have also added that, as I look at this tool, I don't know that I could
get the necessary torque even with it. It really doesn't give me much more hope
than the tool I'm in the process of fabricating now.
Another nudge in the direction of researching interchangeability of crank
pulleys.
snip
> >I've been resisting the air impact wrench because clearly I'm going to need a
> >serious one, so it will be a rental to save bucks.
snip
> In recent Honda manuals, where they show the holding tool, there is
> specific advice to *not* use an impact wrench. It's something which has
> always bothered me - the thought of the bearings getting pounded and the
> valve gear flapping around.
I remember this coming up before. IIRC I have seen this warning at a few sites
(not searching for it; just happened on it). But so many people seemed to
ignore it, or IIRC we made some distinction between an impact hammer and an air
wrench, that I figured... But perhaps I figure wrong.
One more reason to hold back on an impact wrench.
> >I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft
pulleys
> >with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I suspect the
> >pulley I have now is not going to survive my latest foray into car repairs.
:-)
> >(No, I don't have money to throw away, but I do have pretty surely a leaking
> >crank seal, albeit a very slow leak. More worried about the timing belt
getting
> >oily than anything else.) My pulley's overall diameter is about 5.5 inches;
the
> >power steering belt wheel diameter is about 3.5 inches, for starters. Anyone
> >having a crankshaft pulley laying around with the 50 mm hex design, etc., do
> >post the dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I
> >dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?)
>
> Sorry I don't know but what I do know is that there were some model years
> which had the hex socket in the pulley and the info on when it appeared is
> vague/imprecise and sometimes wrong. If you look at the Schley tool models
> and years shown here:
> http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?P...ROD&ProdID=629 it says
> that the 1.8L Integra engine didn't have the hex fitting till '94 and yet,
> to my great relief, my '92 had it. If someone knows the relative sizes of
> '91 vs. '92 Civic pulleys, that might give a starting point for a junkyard
> search.
What's killing me also is online drawings don't even give me a clue. E.g. at
Majestic's site, the drawing http://tinyurl.com/23qjb of the crankshaft pulley
is not accurate, shape-wise. The circumferential holes are actually *outside*
the circumference of the power steering belt wheel. That is, the holes sit on a
larger diameter than the diameter of the power steering belt wheel.
Fortunately I know of one salvage yard that has parts like this literally on
shelves in a huge warehouse. They can easily pull them down so I can take some
measurements. Or they might even know if this is do-able.
This is recreation for me at this point. I'm going to button my car back up
today, drive it to see how my "JB Weld" fix works, and reflect on this whole
pulley holder problem for a week or so. Not down about it. It's mostly
avocational at this point. Of course, if my timing belt fails next month because
of this tiny leak near/at the front crank seal, I'll be eating my words pronto.
:-)
Thanks as always for sharing your pithy experience, George.
06-07-2004, 11:44 AM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
> Caroline wrote:
snip
> > I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft
> > pulleys with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I
> > suspect the pulley I have now is not going to survive my latest foray
> > into car repairs. :-) (No, I don't have money to throw away, but I do have
> > pretty surely a leaking crank seal, albeit a very slow leak. More worried
> > about the timing belt getting oily than anything else.) My pulley's
> > overall diameter is about 5.5 inches; the power steering belt wheel
> > diameter is about 3.5 inches, for starters. Anyone having a crankshaft
> > pulley laying around with the 50 mm hex design, etc., do post the
> > dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I
> > dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?)
>
> OK, it seems that you have a different crank pulley than the one that I have
> on my '88 Civic.
Now I'm seeing Majestic's pulley sizes vary within the 1988 Civic's. Some of the
part numbers match that for my 1991 Civic's pulley. some do not. The little
sketches of the pulleys all appear the same(!)
> Mine does not have the extra lip for the power steering
> belt. It only has capacity for the alternator and AC belts. Both of these
> belt wheels (or whatever you wish to call them) are about the same
> diameter. The AC belt wheel has a nice flat lip on it. The tool I made for
> my car didn't damage the pulley in any appreciable way.
>
> If it were my unit, I would buy the appropriate holding tool from the
> etoolcart website and replace the damaged pulley with one of the correct
> design for your car from a wrecking yard. I don't know for certain, but it
> could be that the nose of the crankshaft is different on cars that used the
> later pulley design with the 50mm hex. I do know that on a '90 Accord
> (which uses the later pulley design) the keyway for the woodruf key is quite
> different than it is on my Civic. This difference would likely make using a
> later pulley impossible.
Eric,
What you say re interchangeability sounds like a good start. I'll try to confirm
it.
Re getting the proper tool: My only concern is whether even with the correct
tool I could get the torque needed, as I just posted to George. Hopefully I'm
just not seeing all the details of using it yet. The dealer must have a
technique.
I'm tempted to buy a second, used crankshaft pulley and then try a modified
version of your tool. If I bust the old pulley completely, I'll get the correct
pulley holder tool and somehow figure out how to get the torque needed with it.
Then chalk this all up to "education."
Thanks much for posting this.
> Caroline wrote:
snip
> > I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft
> > pulleys with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I
> > suspect the pulley I have now is not going to survive my latest foray
> > into car repairs. :-) (No, I don't have money to throw away, but I do have
> > pretty surely a leaking crank seal, albeit a very slow leak. More worried
> > about the timing belt getting oily than anything else.) My pulley's
> > overall diameter is about 5.5 inches; the power steering belt wheel
> > diameter is about 3.5 inches, for starters. Anyone having a crankshaft
> > pulley laying around with the 50 mm hex design, etc., do post the
> > dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I
> > dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?)
>
> OK, it seems that you have a different crank pulley than the one that I have
> on my '88 Civic.
Now I'm seeing Majestic's pulley sizes vary within the 1988 Civic's. Some of the
part numbers match that for my 1991 Civic's pulley. some do not. The little
sketches of the pulleys all appear the same(!)
> Mine does not have the extra lip for the power steering
> belt. It only has capacity for the alternator and AC belts. Both of these
> belt wheels (or whatever you wish to call them) are about the same
> diameter. The AC belt wheel has a nice flat lip on it. The tool I made for
> my car didn't damage the pulley in any appreciable way.
>
> If it were my unit, I would buy the appropriate holding tool from the
> etoolcart website and replace the damaged pulley with one of the correct
> design for your car from a wrecking yard. I don't know for certain, but it
> could be that the nose of the crankshaft is different on cars that used the
> later pulley design with the 50mm hex. I do know that on a '90 Accord
> (which uses the later pulley design) the keyway for the woodruf key is quite
> different than it is on my Civic. This difference would likely make using a
> later pulley impossible.
Eric,
What you say re interchangeability sounds like a good start. I'll try to confirm
it.
Re getting the proper tool: My only concern is whether even with the correct
tool I could get the torque needed, as I just posted to George. Hopefully I'm
just not seeing all the details of using it yet. The dealer must have a
technique.
I'm tempted to buy a second, used crankshaft pulley and then try a modified
version of your tool. If I bust the old pulley completely, I'll get the correct
pulley holder tool and somehow figure out how to get the torque needed with it.
Then chalk this all up to "education."
Thanks much for posting this.
06-07-2004, 11:50 AM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
On 6/7/04 2:17 AM, in article d728c05c8n2i1t3msjo708aj13mgl0d16n@4ax.com,
"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 00:45:22 GMT, "Caroline"
> <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> "George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote
>> Caroline wrote
>> snip
>>>> Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power
>>>> steering
>>>> belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the
>> current
>>>> pulley with other Honda models' 50 mm (or so?) hex socket version. After a
>> lot
>>>> of reading on this over the last few months, I know what you're talking
>> about.
>>>> I'm seeing tools for my pulley for some $70 or so, while the other pulley
>> holder
>>>> tool can be had for under $30.
>>>
>>> It's 50mm according to service manuals. I hadn't seen any tools for the
>>> pulleys without the hex socket in it - that'd be interesting to have as a
>>> reference here.
>>
>> http://www.etoolcart.com/browseprodu...-Holder---SIRH
>> O60
>> .HTML
>>
>> Also, from the popular UK Honda manual site:
>>
>> http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-26.pdf
>>
>> and how it's used, more or less (lower right corner of page):
>>
>> http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-27.pdf
>
> Now that *is* interesting - never seen such a tool in a U.S. Honda manual
> but of course, I've umm, missed a few... anybody else seen this bugger
> mentioned?
>
>> My 91 Civic crankshaft pulley has quite the lip on it where the power
>> steering
>> belt goes. The lip is bowl-shaped, too, meaning bolting a flat bar (part of
>> my
>> proposed crankshaft pulley holding tool) to the pulley puts stress on the
>> lip,
>> if you can picture this.
>>
>> I JB Welded the 0.3 oz. chunk of pulley that came off yesterday. My
>> calculations
>> say it should hold easily, if JB Weld does not lie about the strength of its
>> stuff. OTOH, I'm quite confident of the high probability it will chip off
>> again
>> (or another piece will chip off) when I bolt the tool I'm making (Eric's
>> design,
>> more or less) to it and apply, yup, over 200 ft-lbs so far to the pulley bolt
>> by
>> my rough calculations. I bear in mind I might need lots more.
>>
>> I've been resisting the air impact wrench because clearly I'm going to need a
>> serious one, so it will be a rental to save bucks. Also, I confess after
>> bending
>> one grade 8 bolt yesterday in this effort, and thinking about the force this
>> is
>> going to take, I am starting to think Curly's (tongue-in-cheek?) caution
>> about
>> handling such a heavy duty air impact wrench should be taken seriously. I
>> don't
>> know. A guy can't be that much stronger than me. But we've been over this, ad
>> nauseam...
>
> In recent Honda manuals, where they show the holding tool, there is
> specific advice to *not* use an impact wrench. It's something which has
> always bothered me - the thought of the bearings getting pounded and the
> valve gear flapping around.
>
They only caution not to use the impact wrench when re-installing. No
problem using it to remove the bolt.
>> I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft
>> pulleys
>> with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I suspect the
>> pulley I have now is not going to survive my latest foray into car repairs.
>> :-)
>> (No, I don't have money to throw away, but I do have pretty surely a leaking
>> crank seal, albeit a very slow leak. More worried about the timing belt
>> getting
>> oily than anything else.) My pulley's overall diameter is about 5.5 inches;
>> the
>> power steering belt wheel diameter is about 3.5 inches, for starters. Anyone
>> having a crankshaft pulley laying around with the 50 mm hex design, etc., do
>> post the dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I
>> dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?)
>
> Sorry I don't know but what I do know is that there were some model years
> which had the hex socket in the pulley and the info on when it appeared is
> vague/imprecise and sometimes wrong. If you look at the Schley tool models
> and years shown here:
> http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?P...ROD&ProdID=629 it says
> that the 1.8L Integra engine didn't have the hex fitting till '94 and yet,
> to my great relief, my '92 had it. If someone knows the relative sizes of
> '91 vs. '92 Civic pulleys, that might give a starting point for a junkyard
> search.
>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 00:45:22 GMT, "Caroline"
> <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> "George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote
>> Caroline wrote
>> snip
>>>> Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power
>>>> steering
>>>> belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the
>> current
>>>> pulley with other Honda models' 50 mm (or so?) hex socket version. After a
>> lot
>>>> of reading on this over the last few months, I know what you're talking
>> about.
>>>> I'm seeing tools for my pulley for some $70 or so, while the other pulley
>> holder
>>>> tool can be had for under $30.
>>>
>>> It's 50mm according to service manuals. I hadn't seen any tools for the
>>> pulleys without the hex socket in it - that'd be interesting to have as a
>>> reference here.
>>
>> http://www.etoolcart.com/browseprodu...-Holder---SIRH
>> O60
>> .HTML
>>
>> Also, from the popular UK Honda manual site:
>>
>> http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-26.pdf
>>
>> and how it's used, more or less (lower right corner of page):
>>
>> http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-27.pdf
>
> Now that *is* interesting - never seen such a tool in a U.S. Honda manual
> but of course, I've umm, missed a few... anybody else seen this bugger
> mentioned?
>
>> My 91 Civic crankshaft pulley has quite the lip on it where the power
>> steering
>> belt goes. The lip is bowl-shaped, too, meaning bolting a flat bar (part of
>> my
>> proposed crankshaft pulley holding tool) to the pulley puts stress on the
>> lip,
>> if you can picture this.
>>
>> I JB Welded the 0.3 oz. chunk of pulley that came off yesterday. My
>> calculations
>> say it should hold easily, if JB Weld does not lie about the strength of its
>> stuff. OTOH, I'm quite confident of the high probability it will chip off
>> again
>> (or another piece will chip off) when I bolt the tool I'm making (Eric's
>> design,
>> more or less) to it and apply, yup, over 200 ft-lbs so far to the pulley bolt
>> by
>> my rough calculations. I bear in mind I might need lots more.
>>
>> I've been resisting the air impact wrench because clearly I'm going to need a
>> serious one, so it will be a rental to save bucks. Also, I confess after
>> bending
>> one grade 8 bolt yesterday in this effort, and thinking about the force this
>> is
>> going to take, I am starting to think Curly's (tongue-in-cheek?) caution
>> about
>> handling such a heavy duty air impact wrench should be taken seriously. I
>> don't
>> know. A guy can't be that much stronger than me. But we've been over this, ad
>> nauseam...
>
> In recent Honda manuals, where they show the holding tool, there is
> specific advice to *not* use an impact wrench. It's something which has
> always bothered me - the thought of the bearings getting pounded and the
> valve gear flapping around.
>
They only caution not to use the impact wrench when re-installing. No
problem using it to remove the bolt.
>> I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft
>> pulleys
>> with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I suspect the
>> pulley I have now is not going to survive my latest foray into car repairs.
>> :-)
>> (No, I don't have money to throw away, but I do have pretty surely a leaking
>> crank seal, albeit a very slow leak. More worried about the timing belt
>> getting
>> oily than anything else.) My pulley's overall diameter is about 5.5 inches;
>> the
>> power steering belt wheel diameter is about 3.5 inches, for starters. Anyone
>> having a crankshaft pulley laying around with the 50 mm hex design, etc., do
>> post the dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I
>> dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?)
>
> Sorry I don't know but what I do know is that there were some model years
> which had the hex socket in the pulley and the info on when it appeared is
> vague/imprecise and sometimes wrong. If you look at the Schley tool models
> and years shown here:
> http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?P...ROD&ProdID=629 it says
> that the 1.8L Integra engine didn't have the hex fitting till '94 and yet,
> to my great relief, my '92 had it. If someone knows the relative sizes of
> '91 vs. '92 Civic pulleys, that might give a starting point for a junkyard
> search.
>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??