|
Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
hi, i am currently looking for a new car.i know it will be a hybrid.my
question is are you happy with your hybrid? what do you like/dislike about it?I'd like to hear your experiences with them.thanks, Nick |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
In article <EpidnSVM9bBb6arcRVn-hA@adelphia.com>,
"nickd" <nickdepo@adelphia.net> wrote: > hi, i am currently looking for a new car.i know it will be a hybrid. Wait a minute: why will it be a hybrid? The *only* reason to buy a hybrid today is to make a statement about your politics. You do not save money--in fact, you spend much more just for the privilege of having a hybrid--and you save very little gas. So what are you trying to accomplish? Maybe there's a better way to get there. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
In article <EpidnSVM9bBb6arcRVn-hA@adelphia.com>,
"nickd" <nickdepo@adelphia.net> wrote: > hi, i am currently looking for a new car.i know it will be a hybrid. Wait a minute: why will it be a hybrid? The *only* reason to buy a hybrid today is to make a statement about your politics. You do not save money--in fact, you spend much more just for the privilege of having a hybrid--and you save very little gas. So what are you trying to accomplish? Maybe there's a better way to get there. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message news:elmop-A9F331.16430402092004@text.usenetserver.com... > > Wait a minute: why will it be a hybrid? > > The *only* reason to buy a hybrid today is to make a statement about > your politics. You do not save money--in fact, you spend much more just > for the privilege of having a hybrid--and you save very little gas. > > So what are you trying to accomplish? Maybe there's a better way to get > there. I have to agree. The hybrids are not giving their owners fantastic fuel mileage. In fact, a diesel powered vehicle gives superior mileage, with less parts to maintain. -- Brian http://www.cakesbydarlene.ca http://www.accesswave.ca/~orion |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message news:elmop-A9F331.16430402092004@text.usenetserver.com... > > Wait a minute: why will it be a hybrid? > > The *only* reason to buy a hybrid today is to make a statement about > your politics. You do not save money--in fact, you spend much more just > for the privilege of having a hybrid--and you save very little gas. > > So what are you trying to accomplish? Maybe there's a better way to get > there. I have to agree. The hybrids are not giving their owners fantastic fuel mileage. In fact, a diesel powered vehicle gives superior mileage, with less parts to maintain. -- Brian http://www.cakesbydarlene.ca http://www.accesswave.ca/~orion |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <EpidnSVM9bBb6arcRVn-hA@adelphia.com>, > "nickd" <nickdepo@adelphia.net> wrote: >>hi, i am currently looking for a new car.i know it will be a hybrid. > > Wait a minute: why will it be a hybrid? > > The *only* reason to buy a hybrid today is to make a statement about > your politics. You do not save money--in fact, you spend much more just > for the privilege of having a hybrid--and you save very little gas. > > So what are you trying to accomplish? Maybe there's a better way to get > there. > Some people want to buy a SUV, some want to buy a hybrid. If that's what they want, then good for them. Hybrids get about 55 mpg. My regular civic gets 35 mpg. Assuming 12,000 miles driven annually, over 10 years, hybrids will consume 2,182 gallons. My civic will consume 3,429 gallons. That's a difference of 1,247 gallons. Multiply that by 20,000 people, for example, and that's a lot of gas saved. Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to accomplish? Nick directed his question to hybrid owners asking for their insight. Your post was not insightful. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <EpidnSVM9bBb6arcRVn-hA@adelphia.com>, > "nickd" <nickdepo@adelphia.net> wrote: >>hi, i am currently looking for a new car.i know it will be a hybrid. > > Wait a minute: why will it be a hybrid? > > The *only* reason to buy a hybrid today is to make a statement about > your politics. You do not save money--in fact, you spend much more just > for the privilege of having a hybrid--and you save very little gas. > > So what are you trying to accomplish? Maybe there's a better way to get > there. > Some people want to buy a SUV, some want to buy a hybrid. If that's what they want, then good for them. Hybrids get about 55 mpg. My regular civic gets 35 mpg. Assuming 12,000 miles driven annually, over 10 years, hybrids will consume 2,182 gallons. My civic will consume 3,429 gallons. That's a difference of 1,247 gallons. Multiply that by 20,000 people, for example, and that's a lot of gas saved. Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to accomplish? Nick directed his question to hybrid owners asking for their insight. Your post was not insightful. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
jajabinks wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: > >> In article <EpidnSVM9bBb6arcRVn-hA@adelphia.com>, >> "nickd" <nickdepo@adelphia.net> wrote: > > >>hi, i am currently looking for a new car.i know it will be a hybrid. > >> >> Wait a minute: why will it be a hybrid? >> >> The *only* reason to buy a hybrid today is to make a statement about >> your politics. You do not save money--in fact, you spend much more >> just for the privilege of having a hybrid--and you save very little gas. >> >> So what are you trying to accomplish? Maybe there's a better way to >> get there. >> > > Some people want to buy a SUV, some want to buy a hybrid. If that's what > they want, then good for them. > > Hybrids get about 55 mpg. My regular civic gets 35 mpg. Assuming 12,000 > miles driven annually, over 10 years, hybrids will consume 2,182 > gallons. My civic will consume 3,429 gallons. That's a difference of > 1,247 gallons. Multiply that by 20,000 people, for example, and that's a > lot of gas saved. > > Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to > accomplish? Nick directed his question to hybrid owners asking for their > insight. Your post was not insightful. Actually, read Brian's post. Compared to a modern diesel car, a hybrid consumes about as much fuel. I may be wrong, but when time will come to dispose of the batteries, any ecological advantage a hybrid may have had over a diesel will be negated. A friend's Golf TDI consumes 5.5l/100km (43mpg). If you would compare that to a hybrid, the gas savings would not be as considerable. And the VW diesel engines are not the best in the world at the moment, because several European manufacturers have more fuel efficient and more powerful diesel engines. The only drawback is that those cars are not available in N America. But Canada is going to switch to sufphur free gas and diesel fuel in 2006/7. That date will be the moment when more manufacturers are going to introduce diesels on the Canadian market. Cosmin |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
jajabinks wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: > >> In article <EpidnSVM9bBb6arcRVn-hA@adelphia.com>, >> "nickd" <nickdepo@adelphia.net> wrote: > > >>hi, i am currently looking for a new car.i know it will be a hybrid. > >> >> Wait a minute: why will it be a hybrid? >> >> The *only* reason to buy a hybrid today is to make a statement about >> your politics. You do not save money--in fact, you spend much more >> just for the privilege of having a hybrid--and you save very little gas. >> >> So what are you trying to accomplish? Maybe there's a better way to >> get there. >> > > Some people want to buy a SUV, some want to buy a hybrid. If that's what > they want, then good for them. > > Hybrids get about 55 mpg. My regular civic gets 35 mpg. Assuming 12,000 > miles driven annually, over 10 years, hybrids will consume 2,182 > gallons. My civic will consume 3,429 gallons. That's a difference of > 1,247 gallons. Multiply that by 20,000 people, for example, and that's a > lot of gas saved. > > Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to > accomplish? Nick directed his question to hybrid owners asking for their > insight. Your post was not insightful. Actually, read Brian's post. Compared to a modern diesel car, a hybrid consumes about as much fuel. I may be wrong, but when time will come to dispose of the batteries, any ecological advantage a hybrid may have had over a diesel will be negated. A friend's Golf TDI consumes 5.5l/100km (43mpg). If you would compare that to a hybrid, the gas savings would not be as considerable. And the VW diesel engines are not the best in the world at the moment, because several European manufacturers have more fuel efficient and more powerful diesel engines. The only drawback is that those cars are not available in N America. But Canada is going to switch to sufphur free gas and diesel fuel in 2006/7. That date will be the moment when more manufacturers are going to introduce diesels on the Canadian market. Cosmin |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
Cosmin N. wrote:
> jajabinks wrote: > >> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >> >>> In article <EpidnSVM9bBb6arcRVn-hA@adelphia.com>, >>> "nickd" <nickdepo@adelphia.net> wrote: >> >> >> >>hi, i am currently looking for a new car.i know it will be a hybrid. >> >>> >>> Wait a minute: why will it be a hybrid? >>> >>> The *only* reason to buy a hybrid today is to make a statement about >>> your politics. You do not save money--in fact, you spend much more >>> just for the privilege of having a hybrid--and you save very little gas. >>> >>> So what are you trying to accomplish? Maybe there's a better way to >>> get there. >>> >> >> Some people want to buy a SUV, some want to buy a hybrid. If that's >> what they want, then good for them. >> >> Hybrids get about 55 mpg. My regular civic gets 35 mpg. Assuming >> 12,000 miles driven annually, over 10 years, hybrids will consume >> 2,182 gallons. My civic will consume 3,429 gallons. That's a >> difference of 1,247 gallons. Multiply that by 20,000 people, for >> example, and that's a lot of gas saved. >> >> Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to >> accomplish? Nick directed his question to hybrid owners asking for >> their insight. Your post was not insightful. > > > Actually, read Brian's post. Compared to a modern diesel car, a hybrid > consumes about as much fuel. I may be wrong, but when time will come to > dispose of the batteries, any ecological advantage a hybrid may have had > over a diesel will be negated. > > A friend's Golf TDI consumes 5.5l/100km (43mpg). If you would compare > that to a hybrid, the gas savings would not be as considerable. And the > VW diesel engines are not the best in the world at the moment, because > several European manufacturers have more fuel efficient and more > powerful diesel engines. > > The only drawback is that those cars are not available in N America. But > Canada is going to switch to sufphur free gas and diesel fuel in 2006/7. > That date will be the moment when more manufacturers are going to > introduce diesels on the Canadian market. > > Cosmin I agree that diesel cars have an ecological advantage over hybrids, and have lower cost of ownership. They key, as you also mentioned, is that diesel is unfortunately not widely available in the United States--the oil consumption capitol of the world. We can only compare to what's currently available for sale in the U.S. A comparison of a regular civic vs. civic hybrid vs. civic diesel (yeah right) is a pipe dream for now. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
Cosmin N. wrote:
> jajabinks wrote: > >> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >> >>> In article <EpidnSVM9bBb6arcRVn-hA@adelphia.com>, >>> "nickd" <nickdepo@adelphia.net> wrote: >> >> >> >>hi, i am currently looking for a new car.i know it will be a hybrid. >> >>> >>> Wait a minute: why will it be a hybrid? >>> >>> The *only* reason to buy a hybrid today is to make a statement about >>> your politics. You do not save money--in fact, you spend much more >>> just for the privilege of having a hybrid--and you save very little gas. >>> >>> So what are you trying to accomplish? Maybe there's a better way to >>> get there. >>> >> >> Some people want to buy a SUV, some want to buy a hybrid. If that's >> what they want, then good for them. >> >> Hybrids get about 55 mpg. My regular civic gets 35 mpg. Assuming >> 12,000 miles driven annually, over 10 years, hybrids will consume >> 2,182 gallons. My civic will consume 3,429 gallons. That's a >> difference of 1,247 gallons. Multiply that by 20,000 people, for >> example, and that's a lot of gas saved. >> >> Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to >> accomplish? Nick directed his question to hybrid owners asking for >> their insight. Your post was not insightful. > > > Actually, read Brian's post. Compared to a modern diesel car, a hybrid > consumes about as much fuel. I may be wrong, but when time will come to > dispose of the batteries, any ecological advantage a hybrid may have had > over a diesel will be negated. > > A friend's Golf TDI consumes 5.5l/100km (43mpg). If you would compare > that to a hybrid, the gas savings would not be as considerable. And the > VW diesel engines are not the best in the world at the moment, because > several European manufacturers have more fuel efficient and more > powerful diesel engines. > > The only drawback is that those cars are not available in N America. But > Canada is going to switch to sufphur free gas and diesel fuel in 2006/7. > That date will be the moment when more manufacturers are going to > introduce diesels on the Canadian market. > > Cosmin I agree that diesel cars have an ecological advantage over hybrids, and have lower cost of ownership. They key, as you also mentioned, is that diesel is unfortunately not widely available in the United States--the oil consumption capitol of the world. We can only compare to what's currently available for sale in the U.S. A comparison of a regular civic vs. civic hybrid vs. civic diesel (yeah right) is a pipe dream for now. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
jajabinks wrote:
<snip> > > I agree that diesel cars have an ecological advantage over hybrids, and > have lower cost of ownership. They key, as you also mentioned, is that > diesel is unfortunately not widely available in the United States--the > oil consumption capitol of the world. We can only compare to what's > currently available for sale in the U.S. A comparison of a regular civic > vs. civic hybrid vs. civic diesel (yeah right) is a pipe dream for now. istr isuzu being players in the eurodiesel engine market. aren't honda & isuzu partners? wouldn't that be a pathway towards a diesel civic? |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
jajabinks wrote:
<snip> > > I agree that diesel cars have an ecological advantage over hybrids, and > have lower cost of ownership. They key, as you also mentioned, is that > diesel is unfortunately not widely available in the United States--the > oil consumption capitol of the world. We can only compare to what's > currently available for sale in the U.S. A comparison of a regular civic > vs. civic hybrid vs. civic diesel (yeah right) is a pipe dream for now. istr isuzu being players in the eurodiesel engine market. aren't honda & isuzu partners? wouldn't that be a pathway towards a diesel civic? |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
jim beam wrote:
| jajabinks wrote: | <snip> || || I agree that diesel cars have an ecological advantage over hybrids, || and have lower cost of ownership. They key, as you also mentioned, || is that diesel is unfortunately not widely available in the United || States--the oil consumption capitol of the world. We can only || compare to what's currently available for sale in the U.S. A || comparison of a regular civic vs. civic hybrid vs. civic diesel || (yeah right) is a pipe dream for now. | | istr isuzu being players in the eurodiesel engine market. aren't | honda & isuzu partners? wouldn't that be a pathway towards a diesel | civic? You better check out the UK site of Honda, then... http://www.honda.co.uk To save you some digging, here's a 3 door Civic with 1.7L turbo-diesel: http://tinyurl.com/67f53 (make sure the drop-down box says 1.7 CTDi) (before you get way too excited about the mileage, remember that it's not US gallons that they're quoting... if I'm not wrong, you'll have to multiply them by 0.83267248, which would give you 37.3 mpg (US) in town, 53.5 mpg (US) outside of the town, and 47.0 mpg (US) mixed usage. Now, to combine that with a hybrid... store brake energy to make the car get back up to speed again after a stop, and your in-town figure would increase drastically... Also, check out the diesel Accord, and if you think this diesel crap is for buses and trucks and lowly 3 door accords, check out the BMW diesel cars - http://tinyurl.com/5cldh for example. Did you ever think a heavy 5 series beamer with a 3 liter V6 engine would have a mileage > 40 mpg? No? Think again: city: 24.8 mpg (US) highway: 42.8 mpg (US) combined: 34.1 mpg (US) Tell you, gas needs to become a bit more expensive before this wave catches on... but it'd be good for all of us (except those running oil companies) |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
jim beam wrote:
| jajabinks wrote: | <snip> || || I agree that diesel cars have an ecological advantage over hybrids, || and have lower cost of ownership. They key, as you also mentioned, || is that diesel is unfortunately not widely available in the United || States--the oil consumption capitol of the world. We can only || compare to what's currently available for sale in the U.S. A || comparison of a regular civic vs. civic hybrid vs. civic diesel || (yeah right) is a pipe dream for now. | | istr isuzu being players in the eurodiesel engine market. aren't | honda & isuzu partners? wouldn't that be a pathway towards a diesel | civic? You better check out the UK site of Honda, then... http://www.honda.co.uk To save you some digging, here's a 3 door Civic with 1.7L turbo-diesel: http://tinyurl.com/67f53 (make sure the drop-down box says 1.7 CTDi) (before you get way too excited about the mileage, remember that it's not US gallons that they're quoting... if I'm not wrong, you'll have to multiply them by 0.83267248, which would give you 37.3 mpg (US) in town, 53.5 mpg (US) outside of the town, and 47.0 mpg (US) mixed usage. Now, to combine that with a hybrid... store brake energy to make the car get back up to speed again after a stop, and your in-town figure would increase drastically... Also, check out the diesel Accord, and if you think this diesel crap is for buses and trucks and lowly 3 door accords, check out the BMW diesel cars - http://tinyurl.com/5cldh for example. Did you ever think a heavy 5 series beamer with a 3 liter V6 engine would have a mileage > 40 mpg? No? Think again: city: 24.8 mpg (US) highway: 42.8 mpg (US) combined: 34.1 mpg (US) Tell you, gas needs to become a bit more expensive before this wave catches on... but it'd be good for all of us (except those running oil companies) |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>,
jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: > Hybrids get about 55 mpg. My regular civic gets 35 mpg. Assuming 12,000 > miles driven annually, over 10 years, hybrids will consume 2,182 > gallons. My civic will consume 3,429 gallons. That's a difference of > 1,247 gallons. Multiply that by 20,000 people, for example, and that's a > lot of gas saved. But it's no money saved, since the hybrid will cost much more up front than that 1,247 gallons of gas costs. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>,
jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: > Hybrids get about 55 mpg. My regular civic gets 35 mpg. Assuming 12,000 > miles driven annually, over 10 years, hybrids will consume 2,182 > gallons. My civic will consume 3,429 gallons. That's a difference of > 1,247 gallons. Multiply that by 20,000 people, for example, and that's a > lot of gas saved. But it's no money saved, since the hybrid will cost much more up front than that 1,247 gallons of gas costs. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>,
jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: > Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to > accomplish? He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for people not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and it's helpful for them to explain their real goals and get input. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>,
jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: > Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to > accomplish? He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for people not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and it's helpful for them to explain their real goals and get input. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
i really got interested in hybrids after watching a show on pbs with alan
alda(anyone see it?)and iceland is leading the way in hydrogen hybrids,hydrogen/electric.i want a hybrid because i'm sick of sending money to the middle east,i want a more eco friendly car,better mileage,less pollution.to me so what if they're a little more expensive,it's the priciple,it's time we find a way to lessen our depenece on oil and find alternative sources of energy(hydrogen,solar,wind,electric,etc.).did you see the bike on american chopper that runs on either gas or ethanol? great idea if you ask me. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message news:elmop-13F529.06160203092004@text.usenetserver.com... > In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, > jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: > >> Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to >> accomplish? > > He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for people > not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and it's helpful > for them to explain their real goals and get input. > |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
i really got interested in hybrids after watching a show on pbs with alan
alda(anyone see it?)and iceland is leading the way in hydrogen hybrids,hydrogen/electric.i want a hybrid because i'm sick of sending money to the middle east,i want a more eco friendly car,better mileage,less pollution.to me so what if they're a little more expensive,it's the priciple,it's time we find a way to lessen our depenece on oil and find alternative sources of energy(hydrogen,solar,wind,electric,etc.).did you see the bike on american chopper that runs on either gas or ethanol? great idea if you ask me. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message news:elmop-13F529.06160203092004@text.usenetserver.com... > In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, > jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: > >> Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to >> accomplish? > > He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for people > not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and it's helpful > for them to explain their real goals and get input. > |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, > jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: > >> Hybrids get about 55 mpg. My regular civic gets 35 mpg. Assuming 12,000 >> miles driven annually, over 10 years, hybrids will consume 2,182 >> gallons. My civic will consume 3,429 gallons. That's a difference of >> 1,247 gallons. Multiply that by 20,000 people, for example, and that's a >> lot of gas saved. > >But it's no money saved, since the hybrid will cost much more up front >than that 1,247 gallons of gas costs. Do you know anyone who'd rather shop at mom & pop shops instead of Walmart? It's not always about money--it's the principle. My previous post did not focus on money but on actual gas saved. 1,247 is a lot of gallons. Notice I didn't compare hybrids to SUV's or minivans because they are in different car markets. Hybrid owners enjoy the satisfaction of being less dependent on oil companies. Maybe someday we will see cars running on cold fusion (that won't explode on impact, preferably). |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, > jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: > >> Hybrids get about 55 mpg. My regular civic gets 35 mpg. Assuming 12,000 >> miles driven annually, over 10 years, hybrids will consume 2,182 >> gallons. My civic will consume 3,429 gallons. That's a difference of >> 1,247 gallons. Multiply that by 20,000 people, for example, and that's a >> lot of gas saved. > >But it's no money saved, since the hybrid will cost much more up front >than that 1,247 gallons of gas costs. Do you know anyone who'd rather shop at mom & pop shops instead of Walmart? It's not always about money--it's the principle. My previous post did not focus on money but on actual gas saved. 1,247 is a lot of gallons. Notice I didn't compare hybrids to SUV's or minivans because they are in different car markets. Hybrid owners enjoy the satisfaction of being less dependent on oil companies. Maybe someday we will see cars running on cold fusion (that won't explode on impact, preferably). |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
I too viewed that hybrid show on PBS and found it of real interest.
71 mpg for city driving in a Prius at $30,000 CDN sure gets my attention. Whether or not that is cost effective or not, it has to be darn close. I have wondered however about battery life and what to do when it's toast. At this point long term results must only be theory but by the time I am ready for a new vehicle (2 years) I am sure the choice will be greater and the longevity somewhat more proven and maybe even better economics. Mike ickd wrote: > i really got interested in hybrids after watching a show on pbs with > alan alda(anyone see it?)and iceland is leading the way in hydrogen > hybrids,hydrogen/electric.i want a hybrid because i'm sick of > sending money to the middle east,i want a more eco friendly > car,better mileage,less pollution.to me so what if they're a little > more expensive,it's the priciple,it's time we find a way to lessen > our depenece on oil and find alternative sources of > energy(hydrogen,solar,wind,electric,etc.).did you see the bike on > american chopper that runs on either gas or ethanol? great idea if > you ask me. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in > message news:elmop-13F529.06160203092004@text.usenetserver.com... >> In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, >> jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: >> >>> Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to >>> accomplish? >> >> He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for >> people not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and >> it's helpful for them to explain their real goals and get input. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
I too viewed that hybrid show on PBS and found it of real interest.
71 mpg for city driving in a Prius at $30,000 CDN sure gets my attention. Whether or not that is cost effective or not, it has to be darn close. I have wondered however about battery life and what to do when it's toast. At this point long term results must only be theory but by the time I am ready for a new vehicle (2 years) I am sure the choice will be greater and the longevity somewhat more proven and maybe even better economics. Mike ickd wrote: > i really got interested in hybrids after watching a show on pbs with > alan alda(anyone see it?)and iceland is leading the way in hydrogen > hybrids,hydrogen/electric.i want a hybrid because i'm sick of > sending money to the middle east,i want a more eco friendly > car,better mileage,less pollution.to me so what if they're a little > more expensive,it's the priciple,it's time we find a way to lessen > our depenece on oil and find alternative sources of > energy(hydrogen,solar,wind,electric,etc.).did you see the bike on > american chopper that runs on either gas or ethanol? great idea if > you ask me. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in > message news:elmop-13F529.06160203092004@text.usenetserver.com... >> In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, >> jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: >> >>> Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to >>> accomplish? >> >> He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for >> people not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and >> it's helpful for them to explain their real goals and get input. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
to a large extent, the hybrid is the auto makers dream. batteries have
a limited life, replacement is prohibitively expensive, and it can't be done by joes garage down the street - it has to be done by the dealer, if at all. therefore, guess what? you have dealer lock-in! every 5 years or so, you /have/ to pay a fortune or buy a new car!!! it's absolutely an auto makers dream. personally, i think diesel is a good solution. at the refinery level, the fuel's cheaper to produce than gas, less gets used, and you have the freedom of a mechanical system that is not locked into one specific provider. Artfulcodger wrote: > I too viewed that hybrid show on PBS and found it of real interest. > 71 mpg for city driving in a Prius at $30,000 CDN sure gets my attention. > Whether or not that is cost effective or not, it has to be darn close. > I have wondered however about battery life and what to do when it's toast. > At this point long term results must only be theory but by the time I am > ready for a new vehicle (2 years) I am sure the choice will be greater and > the longevity somewhat more proven and maybe even better economics. > > Mike > > ickd wrote: > >>i really got interested in hybrids after watching a show on pbs with >>alan alda(anyone see it?)and iceland is leading the way in hydrogen >>hybrids,hydrogen/electric.i want a hybrid because i'm sick of >>sending money to the middle east,i want a more eco friendly >>car,better mileage,less pollution.to me so what if they're a little >>more expensive,it's the priciple,it's time we find a way to lessen >>our depenece on oil and find alternative sources of >>energy(hydrogen,solar,wind,electric,etc.).did you see the bike on >>american chopper that runs on either gas or ethanol? great idea if >>you ask me. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in >>message news:elmop-13F529.06160203092004@text.usenetserver.com... >> >>>In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, >>>jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to >>>>accomplish? >>> >>>He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for >>>people not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and >>>it's helpful for them to explain their real goals and get input. > > > |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
to a large extent, the hybrid is the auto makers dream. batteries have
a limited life, replacement is prohibitively expensive, and it can't be done by joes garage down the street - it has to be done by the dealer, if at all. therefore, guess what? you have dealer lock-in! every 5 years or so, you /have/ to pay a fortune or buy a new car!!! it's absolutely an auto makers dream. personally, i think diesel is a good solution. at the refinery level, the fuel's cheaper to produce than gas, less gets used, and you have the freedom of a mechanical system that is not locked into one specific provider. Artfulcodger wrote: > I too viewed that hybrid show on PBS and found it of real interest. > 71 mpg for city driving in a Prius at $30,000 CDN sure gets my attention. > Whether or not that is cost effective or not, it has to be darn close. > I have wondered however about battery life and what to do when it's toast. > At this point long term results must only be theory but by the time I am > ready for a new vehicle (2 years) I am sure the choice will be greater and > the longevity somewhat more proven and maybe even better economics. > > Mike > > ickd wrote: > >>i really got interested in hybrids after watching a show on pbs with >>alan alda(anyone see it?)and iceland is leading the way in hydrogen >>hybrids,hydrogen/electric.i want a hybrid because i'm sick of >>sending money to the middle east,i want a more eco friendly >>car,better mileage,less pollution.to me so what if they're a little >>more expensive,it's the priciple,it's time we find a way to lessen >>our depenece on oil and find alternative sources of >>energy(hydrogen,solar,wind,electric,etc.).did you see the bike on >>american chopper that runs on either gas or ethanol? great idea if >>you ask me. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in >>message news:elmop-13F529.06160203092004@text.usenetserver.com... >> >>>In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, >>>jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to >>>>accomplish? >>> >>>He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for >>>people not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and >>>it's helpful for them to explain their real goals and get input. > > > |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
Wait a minute.
In my HUMBLE opinion the dream car would be a hybrid diesel. Apparently, nobody has a grasp of BOTH techniques. "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message news:aKqdnagz7s2nEqXcRVn-uQ@comcast.com... > to a large extent, the hybrid is the auto makers dream. batteries have > a limited life, replacement is prohibitively expensive, and it can't be > done by joes garage down the street - it has to be done by the dealer, > if at all. therefore, guess what? you have dealer lock-in! every 5 > years or so, you /have/ to pay a fortune or buy a new car!!! it's > absolutely an auto makers dream. > > personally, i think diesel is a good solution. at the refinery level, > the fuel's cheaper to produce than gas, less gets used, and you have the > freedom of a mechanical system that is not locked into one specific > provider. > > Artfulcodger wrote: > > I too viewed that hybrid show on PBS and found it of real interest. > > 71 mpg for city driving in a Prius at $30,000 CDN sure gets my attention. > > Whether or not that is cost effective or not, it has to be darn close. > > I have wondered however about battery life and what to do when it's toast. > > At this point long term results must only be theory but by the time I am > > ready for a new vehicle (2 years) I am sure the choice will be greater and > > the longevity somewhat more proven and maybe even better economics. > > > > Mike > > > > ickd wrote: > > > >>i really got interested in hybrids after watching a show on pbs with > >>alan alda(anyone see it?)and iceland is leading the way in hydrogen > >>hybrids,hydrogen/electric.i want a hybrid because i'm sick of > >>sending money to the middle east,i want a more eco friendly > >>car,better mileage,less pollution.to me so what if they're a little > >>more expensive,it's the priciple,it's time we find a way to lessen > >>our depenece on oil and find alternative sources of > >>energy(hydrogen,solar,wind,electric,etc.).did you see the bike on > >>american chopper that runs on either gas or ethanol? great idea if > >>you ask me. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in > >>message news:elmop-13F529.06160203092004@text.usenetserver.com... > >> > >>>In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, > >>>jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to > >>>>accomplish? > >>> > >>>He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for > >>>people not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and > >>>it's helpful for them to explain their real goals and get input. > > > > > > > |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
Wait a minute.
In my HUMBLE opinion the dream car would be a hybrid diesel. Apparently, nobody has a grasp of BOTH techniques. "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message news:aKqdnagz7s2nEqXcRVn-uQ@comcast.com... > to a large extent, the hybrid is the auto makers dream. batteries have > a limited life, replacement is prohibitively expensive, and it can't be > done by joes garage down the street - it has to be done by the dealer, > if at all. therefore, guess what? you have dealer lock-in! every 5 > years or so, you /have/ to pay a fortune or buy a new car!!! it's > absolutely an auto makers dream. > > personally, i think diesel is a good solution. at the refinery level, > the fuel's cheaper to produce than gas, less gets used, and you have the > freedom of a mechanical system that is not locked into one specific > provider. > > Artfulcodger wrote: > > I too viewed that hybrid show on PBS and found it of real interest. > > 71 mpg for city driving in a Prius at $30,000 CDN sure gets my attention. > > Whether or not that is cost effective or not, it has to be darn close. > > I have wondered however about battery life and what to do when it's toast. > > At this point long term results must only be theory but by the time I am > > ready for a new vehicle (2 years) I am sure the choice will be greater and > > the longevity somewhat more proven and maybe even better economics. > > > > Mike > > > > ickd wrote: > > > >>i really got interested in hybrids after watching a show on pbs with > >>alan alda(anyone see it?)and iceland is leading the way in hydrogen > >>hybrids,hydrogen/electric.i want a hybrid because i'm sick of > >>sending money to the middle east,i want a more eco friendly > >>car,better mileage,less pollution.to me so what if they're a little > >>more expensive,it's the priciple,it's time we find a way to lessen > >>our depenece on oil and find alternative sources of > >>energy(hydrogen,solar,wind,electric,etc.).did you see the bike on > >>american chopper that runs on either gas or ethanol? great idea if > >>you ask me. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in > >>message news:elmop-13F529.06160203092004@text.usenetserver.com... > >> > >>>In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, > >>>jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to > >>>>accomplish? > >>> > >>>He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for > >>>people not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and > >>>it's helpful for them to explain their real goals and get input. > > > > > > > |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
wait a minute - if your diesel hybrid has the same batteries and has to
go to the same dealer, where's the difference?... the diesel-electric concept is ancient. railroad engines have been using them for decades. it's not the mechanical concepts; it's the limited battery life/cost equation locking you into the dealer and their opportunity for gouging that i have a problem with. congress sees fit to mandate that obdc II is "open" to prevent dealer lock-in. unless congress has the same foresight regarding hybrids, and i don't see how it can force manufacturers to use the same battery packs - a totally different proposition to a $2 port on an embedded computer, then the hybrid is going to be what i said, a manufacturers dream. Al Smith wrote: > Wait a minute. > > In my HUMBLE opinion the dream car would be > a hybrid diesel. Apparently, nobody has a grasp > of BOTH techniques. > > "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > news:aKqdnagz7s2nEqXcRVn-uQ@comcast.com... > >>to a large extent, the hybrid is the auto makers dream. batteries have >>a limited life, replacement is prohibitively expensive, and it can't be >>done by joes garage down the street - it has to be done by the dealer, >>if at all. therefore, guess what? you have dealer lock-in! every 5 >>years or so, you /have/ to pay a fortune or buy a new car!!! it's >>absolutely an auto makers dream. >> >>personally, i think diesel is a good solution. at the refinery level, >>the fuel's cheaper to produce than gas, less gets used, and you have the >>freedom of a mechanical system that is not locked into one specific >>provider. >> >>Artfulcodger wrote: >> >>>I too viewed that hybrid show on PBS and found it of real interest. >>>71 mpg for city driving in a Prius at $30,000 CDN sure gets my > > attention. > >>>Whether or not that is cost effective or not, it has to be darn close. >>>I have wondered however about battery life and what to do when it's > > toast. > >>>At this point long term results must only be theory but by the time I am >>>ready for a new vehicle (2 years) I am sure the choice will be greater > > and > >>>the longevity somewhat more proven and maybe even better economics. >>> >>>Mike >>> >>>ickd wrote: >>> >>> >>>>i really got interested in hybrids after watching a show on pbs with >>>>alan alda(anyone see it?)and iceland is leading the way in hydrogen >>>>hybrids,hydrogen/electric.i want a hybrid because i'm sick of >>>>sending money to the middle east,i want a more eco friendly >>>>car,better mileage,less pollution.to me so what if they're a little >>>>more expensive,it's the priciple,it's time we find a way to lessen >>>>our depenece on oil and find alternative sources of >>>>energy(hydrogen,solar,wind,electric,etc.).di d you see the bike on >>>>american chopper that runs on either gas or ethanol? great idea if >>>>you ask me. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in >>>>message news:elmop-13F529.06160203092004@text.usenetserver.com... >>>> >>>> >>>>>In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, >>>>>jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to >>>>>>accomplish? >>>>> >>>>>He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for >>>>>people not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and >>>>>it's helpful for them to explain their real goals and get input. >>> >>> >>> > > |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
wait a minute - if your diesel hybrid has the same batteries and has to
go to the same dealer, where's the difference?... the diesel-electric concept is ancient. railroad engines have been using them for decades. it's not the mechanical concepts; it's the limited battery life/cost equation locking you into the dealer and their opportunity for gouging that i have a problem with. congress sees fit to mandate that obdc II is "open" to prevent dealer lock-in. unless congress has the same foresight regarding hybrids, and i don't see how it can force manufacturers to use the same battery packs - a totally different proposition to a $2 port on an embedded computer, then the hybrid is going to be what i said, a manufacturers dream. Al Smith wrote: > Wait a minute. > > In my HUMBLE opinion the dream car would be > a hybrid diesel. Apparently, nobody has a grasp > of BOTH techniques. > > "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > news:aKqdnagz7s2nEqXcRVn-uQ@comcast.com... > >>to a large extent, the hybrid is the auto makers dream. batteries have >>a limited life, replacement is prohibitively expensive, and it can't be >>done by joes garage down the street - it has to be done by the dealer, >>if at all. therefore, guess what? you have dealer lock-in! every 5 >>years or so, you /have/ to pay a fortune or buy a new car!!! it's >>absolutely an auto makers dream. >> >>personally, i think diesel is a good solution. at the refinery level, >>the fuel's cheaper to produce than gas, less gets used, and you have the >>freedom of a mechanical system that is not locked into one specific >>provider. >> >>Artfulcodger wrote: >> >>>I too viewed that hybrid show on PBS and found it of real interest. >>>71 mpg for city driving in a Prius at $30,000 CDN sure gets my > > attention. > >>>Whether or not that is cost effective or not, it has to be darn close. >>>I have wondered however about battery life and what to do when it's > > toast. > >>>At this point long term results must only be theory but by the time I am >>>ready for a new vehicle (2 years) I am sure the choice will be greater > > and > >>>the longevity somewhat more proven and maybe even better economics. >>> >>>Mike >>> >>>ickd wrote: >>> >>> >>>>i really got interested in hybrids after watching a show on pbs with >>>>alan alda(anyone see it?)and iceland is leading the way in hydrogen >>>>hybrids,hydrogen/electric.i want a hybrid because i'm sick of >>>>sending money to the middle east,i want a more eco friendly >>>>car,better mileage,less pollution.to me so what if they're a little >>>>more expensive,it's the priciple,it's time we find a way to lessen >>>>our depenece on oil and find alternative sources of >>>>energy(hydrogen,solar,wind,electric,etc.).di d you see the bike on >>>>american chopper that runs on either gas or ethanol? great idea if >>>>you ask me. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in >>>>message news:elmop-13F529.06160203092004@text.usenetserver.com... >>>> >>>> >>>>>In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, >>>>>jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to >>>>>>accomplish? >>>>> >>>>>He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for >>>>>people not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and >>>>>it's helpful for them to explain their real goals and get input. >>> >>> >>> > > |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
In article
<zK%Zc.191972$UTP.135564@twister01.bloor.is.net.ca ble.rogers.com>, "Artfulcodger" <mcbat@rogers.com> wrote: > I have wondered however about battery life and what to do when it's toast. Yep. Those who want hybrids say "it's the principle" but they DON'T take into account the big picture: that those batteries take resources to build and dispose of, etc. No, those who say "it's the principle" generally focus on one thing out of context. Sure, you're sending less money to the middle East (and everywhere else that supplies oil, including the US). But maybe you're actually polluting the environment more in the long run, with the resources required to manufacture and dispose of the batteries. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
In article
<zK%Zc.191972$UTP.135564@twister01.bloor.is.net.ca ble.rogers.com>, "Artfulcodger" <mcbat@rogers.com> wrote: > I have wondered however about battery life and what to do when it's toast. Yep. Those who want hybrids say "it's the principle" but they DON'T take into account the big picture: that those batteries take resources to build and dispose of, etc. No, those who say "it's the principle" generally focus on one thing out of context. Sure, you're sending less money to the middle East (and everywhere else that supplies oil, including the US). But maybe you're actually polluting the environment more in the long run, with the resources required to manufacture and dispose of the batteries. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
In article <aKqdnagz7s2nEqXcRVn-uQ@comcast.com>,
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote: > personally, i think diesel is a good solution. at the refinery level, > the fuel's cheaper to produce than gas, less gets used, and you have the > freedom of a mechanical system that is not locked into one specific > provider. Not to mention an engine that history has shown tends to last a lot longer than gasoline engines overall. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
In article <aKqdnagz7s2nEqXcRVn-uQ@comcast.com>,
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote: > personally, i think diesel is a good solution. at the refinery level, > the fuel's cheaper to produce than gas, less gets used, and you have the > freedom of a mechanical system that is not locked into one specific > provider. Not to mention an engine that history has shown tends to last a lot longer than gasoline engines overall. |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message news:w6OdnRl7OYjwMKXcRVn-qQ@comcast.com... > wait a minute - if your diesel hybrid has the same batteries and has to > go to the same dealer, where's the difference?... Obvious. A diesel is about 15% more efficient than an Otto. That's the difference. Although there is no efficiency increase from eliminating ignition advance, there is still significant efficiency increase. > > the diesel-electric concept is ancient. railroad engines have been > using them for decades. Not with regenerative braking. it's not the mechanical concepts; it's the > limited battery life/cost equation locking you into the dealer and their > opportunity for gouging that i have a problem with. congress sees fit > to mandate that obdc II is "open" to prevent dealer lock-in. unless > congress has the same foresight regarding hybrids, and i don't see how > it can force manufacturers to use the same battery packs - a totally > different proposition to a $2 port on an embedded computer, then the > hybrid is going to be what i said, a manufacturers dream. > ??????? > Al Smith wrote: > > Wait a minute. > > > > In my HUMBLE opinion the dream car would be > > a hybrid diesel. Apparently, nobody has a grasp > > of BOTH techniques. > > > > "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > > news:aKqdnagz7s2nEqXcRVn-uQ@comcast.com... > > > >>to a large extent, the hybrid is the auto makers dream. batteries have > >>a limited life, replacement is prohibitively expensive, and it can't be > >>done by joes garage down the street - it has to be done by the dealer, > >>if at all. therefore, guess what? you have dealer lock-in! every 5 > >>years or so, you /have/ to pay a fortune or buy a new car!!! it's > >>absolutely an auto makers dream. > >> > >>personally, i think diesel is a good solution. at the refinery level, > >>the fuel's cheaper to produce than gas, less gets used, and you have the > >>freedom of a mechanical system that is not locked into one specific > >>provider. > >> > >>Artfulcodger wrote: > >> > >>>I too viewed that hybrid show on PBS and found it of real interest. > >>>71 mpg for city driving in a Prius at $30,000 CDN sure gets my > > > > attention. > > > >>>Whether or not that is cost effective or not, it has to be darn close. > >>>I have wondered however about battery life and what to do when it's > > > > toast. > > > >>>At this point long term results must only be theory but by the time I am > >>>ready for a new vehicle (2 years) I am sure the choice will be greater > > > > and > > > >>>the longevity somewhat more proven and maybe even better economics. > >>> > >>>Mike > >>> > >>>ickd wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>i really got interested in hybrids after watching a show on pbs with > >>>>alan alda(anyone see it?)and iceland is leading the way in hydrogen > >>>>hybrids,hydrogen/electric.i want a hybrid because i'm sick of > >>>>sending money to the middle east,i want a more eco friendly > >>>>car,better mileage,less pollution.to me so what if they're a little > >>>>more expensive,it's the priciple,it's time we find a way to lessen > >>>>our depenece on oil and find alternative sources of > >>>>energy(hydrogen,solar,wind,electric,etc.).di d you see the bike on > >>>>american chopper that runs on either gas or ethanol? great idea if > >>>>you ask me. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in > >>>>message news:elmop-13F529.06160203092004@text.usenetserver.com... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, > >>>>>jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to > >>>>>>accomplish? > >>>>> > >>>>>He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for > >>>>>people not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and > >>>>>it's helpful for them to explain their real goals and get input. > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message news:w6OdnRl7OYjwMKXcRVn-qQ@comcast.com... > wait a minute - if your diesel hybrid has the same batteries and has to > go to the same dealer, where's the difference?... Obvious. A diesel is about 15% more efficient than an Otto. That's the difference. Although there is no efficiency increase from eliminating ignition advance, there is still significant efficiency increase. > > the diesel-electric concept is ancient. railroad engines have been > using them for decades. Not with regenerative braking. it's not the mechanical concepts; it's the > limited battery life/cost equation locking you into the dealer and their > opportunity for gouging that i have a problem with. congress sees fit > to mandate that obdc II is "open" to prevent dealer lock-in. unless > congress has the same foresight regarding hybrids, and i don't see how > it can force manufacturers to use the same battery packs - a totally > different proposition to a $2 port on an embedded computer, then the > hybrid is going to be what i said, a manufacturers dream. > ??????? > Al Smith wrote: > > Wait a minute. > > > > In my HUMBLE opinion the dream car would be > > a hybrid diesel. Apparently, nobody has a grasp > > of BOTH techniques. > > > > "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > > news:aKqdnagz7s2nEqXcRVn-uQ@comcast.com... > > > >>to a large extent, the hybrid is the auto makers dream. batteries have > >>a limited life, replacement is prohibitively expensive, and it can't be > >>done by joes garage down the street - it has to be done by the dealer, > >>if at all. therefore, guess what? you have dealer lock-in! every 5 > >>years or so, you /have/ to pay a fortune or buy a new car!!! it's > >>absolutely an auto makers dream. > >> > >>personally, i think diesel is a good solution. at the refinery level, > >>the fuel's cheaper to produce than gas, less gets used, and you have the > >>freedom of a mechanical system that is not locked into one specific > >>provider. > >> > >>Artfulcodger wrote: > >> > >>>I too viewed that hybrid show on PBS and found it of real interest. > >>>71 mpg for city driving in a Prius at $30,000 CDN sure gets my > > > > attention. > > > >>>Whether or not that is cost effective or not, it has to be darn close. > >>>I have wondered however about battery life and what to do when it's > > > > toast. > > > >>>At this point long term results must only be theory but by the time I am > >>>ready for a new vehicle (2 years) I am sure the choice will be greater > > > > and > > > >>>the longevity somewhat more proven and maybe even better economics. > >>> > >>>Mike > >>> > >>>ickd wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>i really got interested in hybrids after watching a show on pbs with > >>>>alan alda(anyone see it?)and iceland is leading the way in hydrogen > >>>>hybrids,hydrogen/electric.i want a hybrid because i'm sick of > >>>>sending money to the middle east,i want a more eco friendly > >>>>car,better mileage,less pollution.to me so what if they're a little > >>>>more expensive,it's the priciple,it's time we find a way to lessen > >>>>our depenece on oil and find alternative sources of > >>>>energy(hydrogen,solar,wind,electric,etc.).di d you see the bike on > >>>>american chopper that runs on either gas or ethanol? great idea if > >>>>you ask me. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in > >>>>message news:elmop-13F529.06160203092004@text.usenetserver.com... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, > >>>>>jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to > >>>>>>accomplish? > >>>>> > >>>>>He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for > >>>>>people not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and > >>>>>it's helpful for them to explain their real goals and get input. > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
al, we're talking about different things. i'm taking about business
ethics - you're talking about what amounts to thermodynamics. how about we agree our subject before we continue this conversation? Al Smith wrote: > "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > news:w6OdnRl7OYjwMKXcRVn-qQ@comcast.com... > >>wait a minute - if your diesel hybrid has the same batteries and has to >>go to the same dealer, where's the difference?... > > > Obvious. A diesel is about 15% more efficient than an Otto. That's > the difference. Although there is no efficiency increase from > eliminating ignition advance, there is still significant efficiency > increase. > > >>the diesel-electric concept is ancient. railroad engines have been >>using them for decades. > > > Not with regenerative braking. > > it's not the mechanical concepts; it's the > >>limited battery life/cost equation locking you into the dealer and their >>opportunity for gouging that i have a problem with. congress sees fit >>to mandate that obdc II is "open" to prevent dealer lock-in. unless >>congress has the same foresight regarding hybrids, and i don't see how >>it can force manufacturers to use the same battery packs - a totally >>different proposition to a $2 port on an embedded computer, then the >>hybrid is going to be what i said, a manufacturers dream. >> > > > ??????? > > >>Al Smith wrote: >> >>>Wait a minute. >>> >>>In my HUMBLE opinion the dream car would be >>>a hybrid diesel. Apparently, nobody has a grasp >>>of BOTH techniques. >>> >>>"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message >>>news:aKqdnagz7s2nEqXcRVn-uQ@comcast.com... >>> >>> >>>>to a large extent, the hybrid is the auto makers dream. batteries have >>>>a limited life, replacement is prohibitively expensive, and it can't be >>>>done by joes garage down the street - it has to be done by the dealer, >>>>if at all. therefore, guess what? you have dealer lock-in! every 5 >>>>years or so, you /have/ to pay a fortune or buy a new car!!! it's >>>>absolutely an auto makers dream. >>>> >>>>personally, i think diesel is a good solution. at the refinery level, >>>>the fuel's cheaper to produce than gas, less gets used, and you have the >>>>freedom of a mechanical system that is not locked into one specific >>>>provider. >>>> >>>>Artfulcodger wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I too viewed that hybrid show on PBS and found it of real interest. >>>>>71 mpg for city driving in a Prius at $30,000 CDN sure gets my >>> >>>attention. >>> >>> >>>>>Whether or not that is cost effective or not, it has to be darn close. >>>>>I have wondered however about battery life and what to do when it's >>> >>>toast. >>> >>> >>>>>At this point long term results must only be theory but by the time I > > am > >>>>>ready for a new vehicle (2 years) I am sure the choice will be greater >>> >>>and >>> >>> >>>>>the longevity somewhat more proven and maybe even better economics. >>>>> >>>>>Mike >>>>> >>>>>ickd wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>i really got interested in hybrids after watching a show on pbs with >>>>>>alan alda(anyone see it?)and iceland is leading the way in hydrogen >>>>>>hybrids,hydrogen/electric.i want a hybrid because i'm sick of >>>>>>sending money to the middle east,i want a more eco friendly >>>>>>car,better mileage,less pollution.to me so what if they're a little >>>>>>more expensive,it's the priciple,it's time we find a way to lessen >>>>>>our depenece on oil and find alternative sources of >>>>>>energy(hydrogen,solar,wind,electric,etc.).di d you see the bike on >>>>>>american chopper that runs on either gas or ethanol? great idea if >>>>>>you ask me. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in >>>>>>message news:elmop-13F529.06160203092004@text.usenetserver.com... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, >>>>>>>jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to >>>>>>>>accomplish? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for >>>>>>>people not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and >>>>>>>it's helpful for them to explain their real goals and get input. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> > > |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
al, we're talking about different things. i'm taking about business
ethics - you're talking about what amounts to thermodynamics. how about we agree our subject before we continue this conversation? Al Smith wrote: > "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > news:w6OdnRl7OYjwMKXcRVn-qQ@comcast.com... > >>wait a minute - if your diesel hybrid has the same batteries and has to >>go to the same dealer, where's the difference?... > > > Obvious. A diesel is about 15% more efficient than an Otto. That's > the difference. Although there is no efficiency increase from > eliminating ignition advance, there is still significant efficiency > increase. > > >>the diesel-electric concept is ancient. railroad engines have been >>using them for decades. > > > Not with regenerative braking. > > it's not the mechanical concepts; it's the > >>limited battery life/cost equation locking you into the dealer and their >>opportunity for gouging that i have a problem with. congress sees fit >>to mandate that obdc II is "open" to prevent dealer lock-in. unless >>congress has the same foresight regarding hybrids, and i don't see how >>it can force manufacturers to use the same battery packs - a totally >>different proposition to a $2 port on an embedded computer, then the >>hybrid is going to be what i said, a manufacturers dream. >> > > > ??????? > > >>Al Smith wrote: >> >>>Wait a minute. >>> >>>In my HUMBLE opinion the dream car would be >>>a hybrid diesel. Apparently, nobody has a grasp >>>of BOTH techniques. >>> >>>"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message >>>news:aKqdnagz7s2nEqXcRVn-uQ@comcast.com... >>> >>> >>>>to a large extent, the hybrid is the auto makers dream. batteries have >>>>a limited life, replacement is prohibitively expensive, and it can't be >>>>done by joes garage down the street - it has to be done by the dealer, >>>>if at all. therefore, guess what? you have dealer lock-in! every 5 >>>>years or so, you /have/ to pay a fortune or buy a new car!!! it's >>>>absolutely an auto makers dream. >>>> >>>>personally, i think diesel is a good solution. at the refinery level, >>>>the fuel's cheaper to produce than gas, less gets used, and you have the >>>>freedom of a mechanical system that is not locked into one specific >>>>provider. >>>> >>>>Artfulcodger wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I too viewed that hybrid show on PBS and found it of real interest. >>>>>71 mpg for city driving in a Prius at $30,000 CDN sure gets my >>> >>>attention. >>> >>> >>>>>Whether or not that is cost effective or not, it has to be darn close. >>>>>I have wondered however about battery life and what to do when it's >>> >>>toast. >>> >>> >>>>>At this point long term results must only be theory but by the time I > > am > >>>>>ready for a new vehicle (2 years) I am sure the choice will be greater >>> >>>and >>> >>> >>>>>the longevity somewhat more proven and maybe even better economics. >>>>> >>>>>Mike >>>>> >>>>>ickd wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>i really got interested in hybrids after watching a show on pbs with >>>>>>alan alda(anyone see it?)and iceland is leading the way in hydrogen >>>>>>hybrids,hydrogen/electric.i want a hybrid because i'm sick of >>>>>>sending money to the middle east,i want a more eco friendly >>>>>>car,better mileage,less pollution.to me so what if they're a little >>>>>>more expensive,it's the priciple,it's time we find a way to lessen >>>>>>our depenece on oil and find alternative sources of >>>>>>energy(hydrogen,solar,wind,electric,etc.).di d you see the bike on >>>>>>american chopper that runs on either gas or ethanol? great idea if >>>>>>you ask me. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in >>>>>>message news:elmop-13F529.06160203092004@text.usenetserver.com... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>In article <P8SZc.2466$Vl5.629@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, >>>>>>>jajabinks <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to >>>>>>>>accomplish? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for >>>>>>>people not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and >>>>>>>it's helpful for them to explain their real goals and get input. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> > > |
Re: Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...
Nickd,
I just got my Civic Hybrid in May. My preference was for the Toyota Prius (more interior and cargo space, higher gas mileage, better Consumer Reports evaluation) but the wait lists were just too long. For commuting I wanted gas efficiency and most importantly, the added bonus (in Virginia only until 2006) that with special license tags, hybrid/clean fuel vehicles are allowed in the restricted High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes during rush hour. I will also get a federal tax credit ($1500 in '04). Civic itself is still a Civic but with less acceleration (not a concern to me) and smaller trunk due to the battery. I do prefer the Civic styling over the boxier Prius. Seats are a bit stiff but still better than my Subaru Forester. I also don't like the rear view blindspots. I am most peeved that my Civic had a bad front door rattle that took 2 dealer visits to fix (it's much better but not completely gone). I've owned several Toyotas that have been better quality in fit and finish. But I did get a below invoice price on the Civic with immediate delivery...while the Prius prices are most likely at/above MSR with over 6 month wait in my area. I didn't do a cost analysis but the easier commuting and time savings are very important to me; in my daily rush hour commutes to Washington DC I get just over 50 mpg with careful driving. Overall, the Civic Hybrid does meet my needs. Anyway, that's just one owner's opinion. --V "nickd" <nickdepo@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:EpidnSVM9bBb6arcRVn-hA@adelphia.com... > hi, i am currently looking for a new car.i know it will be a hybrid.my > question is are you happy with your hybrid? what do you like/dislike about > it?I'd like to hear your experiences with them.thanks, Nick > > |
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