Jonathan Upright

Similar to the "what's my redline" message, I need to know the answer to the
following question, and please MORE than one person give your opinion, even
if they differ!

I drive a 1990 Honda Civic LX 1.5L DPFI with 5-speed manual transmission. I
just had my engine replaced and the mechanic that did it told me that I
should under no circumstances exceed 4500RPM or I'll risk blowing the
engine. He even went so far to say that my tachometer (the factory one on
the dash) is wrong to redline at 6500RPM. Now, I know that revving it up to
the redline constantly is not good for the motor, but for crying out loud,
the official Honda specs for my car said that the peak horsepower is reached
at 6000RPM. If they had intended for the engine to never exceed 4500RPM,
they would have made the horsepower peak at 4500 instead of 6000. So, my
question is:

How high can I rev the engine throughout first and second gear without
having to worry about any consequences? (BTW, this engine IS already broken
in; it has approximately 75k miles on it)

I thought that up to 6k was safe since that's where peak hp is, but what do
all of you Honda experts say?

Thanks in advance!!

Jonathan

M.C. Tee

mechanic is full of , driving above 4500 will not damage the car,
driving at 6500 for a long time may, but thats a different story, the
redline is the redline for a reason, its the maximum you should run your
engine at



"Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:q2w2c.72662$eL2.4164609@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> Similar to the "what's my redline" message, I need to know the answer to
the
> following question, and please MORE than one person give your opinion,
even
> if they differ!
>
> I drive a 1990 Honda Civic LX 1.5L DPFI with 5-speed manual transmission.
I
> just had my engine replaced and the mechanic that did it told me that I
> should under no circumstances exceed 4500RPM or I'll risk blowing the
> engine. He even went so far to say that my tachometer (the factory one on
> the dash) is wrong to redline at 6500RPM. Now, I know that revving it up
to
> the redline constantly is not good for the motor, but for crying out loud,
> the official Honda specs for my car said that the peak horsepower is
reached
> at 6000RPM. If they had intended for the engine to never exceed 4500RPM,
> they would have made the horsepower peak at 4500 instead of 6000. So, my
> question is:
>
> How high can I rev the engine throughout first and second gear without
> having to worry about any consequences? (BTW, this engine IS already
broken
> in; it has approximately 75k miles on it)
>
> I thought that up to 6k was safe since that's where peak hp is, but what
do
> all of you Honda experts say?
>
> Thanks in advance!!
>
> Jonathan
>
>

M.C. Tee

mechanic is full of , driving above 4500 will not damage the car,
driving at 6500 for a long time may, but thats a different story, the
redline is the redline for a reason, its the maximum you should run your
engine at



"Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:q2w2c.72662$eL2.4164609@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> Similar to the "what's my redline" message, I need to know the answer to
the
> following question, and please MORE than one person give your opinion,
even
> if they differ!
>
> I drive a 1990 Honda Civic LX 1.5L DPFI with 5-speed manual transmission.
I
> just had my engine replaced and the mechanic that did it told me that I
> should under no circumstances exceed 4500RPM or I'll risk blowing the
> engine. He even went so far to say that my tachometer (the factory one on
> the dash) is wrong to redline at 6500RPM. Now, I know that revving it up
to
> the redline constantly is not good for the motor, but for crying out loud,
> the official Honda specs for my car said that the peak horsepower is
reached
> at 6000RPM. If they had intended for the engine to never exceed 4500RPM,
> they would have made the horsepower peak at 4500 instead of 6000. So, my
> question is:
>
> How high can I rev the engine throughout first and second gear without
> having to worry about any consequences? (BTW, this engine IS already
broken
> in; it has approximately 75k miles on it)
>
> I thought that up to 6k was safe since that's where peak hp is, but what
do
> all of you Honda experts say?
>
> Thanks in advance!!
>
> Jonathan
>
>

M.C. Tee

mechanic is full of , driving above 4500 will not damage the car,
driving at 6500 for a long time may, but thats a different story, the
redline is the redline for a reason, its the maximum you should run your
engine at



"Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:q2w2c.72662$eL2.4164609@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> Similar to the "what's my redline" message, I need to know the answer to
the
> following question, and please MORE than one person give your opinion,
even
> if they differ!
>
> I drive a 1990 Honda Civic LX 1.5L DPFI with 5-speed manual transmission.
I
> just had my engine replaced and the mechanic that did it told me that I
> should under no circumstances exceed 4500RPM or I'll risk blowing the
> engine. He even went so far to say that my tachometer (the factory one on
> the dash) is wrong to redline at 6500RPM. Now, I know that revving it up
to
> the redline constantly is not good for the motor, but for crying out loud,
> the official Honda specs for my car said that the peak horsepower is
reached
> at 6000RPM. If they had intended for the engine to never exceed 4500RPM,
> they would have made the horsepower peak at 4500 instead of 6000. So, my
> question is:
>
> How high can I rev the engine throughout first and second gear without
> having to worry about any consequences? (BTW, this engine IS already
broken
> in; it has approximately 75k miles on it)
>
> I thought that up to 6k was safe since that's where peak hp is, but what
do
> all of you Honda experts say?
>
> Thanks in advance!!
>
> Jonathan
>
>

M.C. Tee

mechanic is full of , driving above 4500 will not damage the car,
driving at 6500 for a long time may, but thats a different story, the
redline is the redline for a reason, its the maximum you should run your
engine at



"Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:q2w2c.72662$eL2.4164609@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> Similar to the "what's my redline" message, I need to know the answer to
the
> following question, and please MORE than one person give your opinion,
even
> if they differ!
>
> I drive a 1990 Honda Civic LX 1.5L DPFI with 5-speed manual transmission.
I
> just had my engine replaced and the mechanic that did it told me that I
> should under no circumstances exceed 4500RPM or I'll risk blowing the
> engine. He even went so far to say that my tachometer (the factory one on
> the dash) is wrong to redline at 6500RPM. Now, I know that revving it up
to
> the redline constantly is not good for the motor, but for crying out loud,
> the official Honda specs for my car said that the peak horsepower is
reached
> at 6000RPM. If they had intended for the engine to never exceed 4500RPM,
> they would have made the horsepower peak at 4500 instead of 6000. So, my
> question is:
>
> How high can I rev the engine throughout first and second gear without
> having to worry about any consequences? (BTW, this engine IS already
broken
> in; it has approximately 75k miles on it)
>
> I thought that up to 6k was safe since that's where peak hp is, but what
do
> all of you Honda experts say?
>
> Thanks in advance!!
>
> Jonathan
>
>

Jonathan Upright

Thanks for your reply. I agree with you...Anyone else care to agree or
disagree? I need more than one "second opinion".

Thanks again!

Jonathan

"M.C. Tee" <tedwards@LEAVEMEALONEroadrunner.nf.net> wrote in message
news:c2e5ar$1qn$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> mechanic is full of , driving above 4500 will not damage the car,
> driving at 6500 for a long time may, but thats a different story, the
> redline is the redline for a reason, its the maximum you should run your
> engine at
>
>
>
> "Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:q2w2c.72662$eL2.4164609@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> > Similar to the "what's my redline" message, I need to know the answer to
> the
> > following question, and please MORE than one person give your opinion,
> even
> > if they differ!
> >
> > I drive a 1990 Honda Civic LX 1.5L DPFI with 5-speed manual
transmission.
> I
> > just had my engine replaced and the mechanic that did it told me that I
> > should under no circumstances exceed 4500RPM or I'll risk blowing the
> > engine. He even went so far to say that my tachometer (the factory one
on
> > the dash) is wrong to redline at 6500RPM. Now, I know that revving it
up
> to
> > the redline constantly is not good for the motor, but for crying out
loud,
> > the official Honda specs for my car said that the peak horsepower is
> reached
> > at 6000RPM. If they had intended for the engine to never exceed
4500RPM,
> > they would have made the horsepower peak at 4500 instead of 6000. So,
my
> > question is:
> >
> > How high can I rev the engine throughout first and second gear without
> > having to worry about any consequences? (BTW, this engine IS already
> broken
> > in; it has approximately 75k miles on it)
> >
> > I thought that up to 6k was safe since that's where peak hp is, but what
> do
> > all of you Honda experts say?
> >
> > Thanks in advance!!
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
>
>

Jonathan Upright

Thanks for your reply. I agree with you...Anyone else care to agree or
disagree? I need more than one "second opinion".

Thanks again!

Jonathan

"M.C. Tee" <tedwards@LEAVEMEALONEroadrunner.nf.net> wrote in message
news:c2e5ar$1qn$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> mechanic is full of , driving above 4500 will not damage the car,
> driving at 6500 for a long time may, but thats a different story, the
> redline is the redline for a reason, its the maximum you should run your
> engine at
>
>
>
> "Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:q2w2c.72662$eL2.4164609@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> > Similar to the "what's my redline" message, I need to know the answer to
> the
> > following question, and please MORE than one person give your opinion,
> even
> > if they differ!
> >
> > I drive a 1990 Honda Civic LX 1.5L DPFI with 5-speed manual
transmission.
> I
> > just had my engine replaced and the mechanic that did it told me that I
> > should under no circumstances exceed 4500RPM or I'll risk blowing the
> > engine. He even went so far to say that my tachometer (the factory one
on
> > the dash) is wrong to redline at 6500RPM. Now, I know that revving it
up
> to
> > the redline constantly is not good for the motor, but for crying out
loud,
> > the official Honda specs for my car said that the peak horsepower is
> reached
> > at 6000RPM. If they had intended for the engine to never exceed
4500RPM,
> > they would have made the horsepower peak at 4500 instead of 6000. So,
my
> > question is:
> >
> > How high can I rev the engine throughout first and second gear without
> > having to worry about any consequences? (BTW, this engine IS already
> broken
> > in; it has approximately 75k miles on it)
> >
> > I thought that up to 6k was safe since that's where peak hp is, but what
> do
> > all of you Honda experts say?
> >
> > Thanks in advance!!
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
>
>

Jonathan Upright

Thanks for your reply. I agree with you...Anyone else care to agree or
disagree? I need more than one "second opinion".

Thanks again!

Jonathan

"M.C. Tee" <tedwards@LEAVEMEALONEroadrunner.nf.net> wrote in message
news:c2e5ar$1qn$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> mechanic is full of , driving above 4500 will not damage the car,
> driving at 6500 for a long time may, but thats a different story, the
> redline is the redline for a reason, its the maximum you should run your
> engine at
>
>
>
> "Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:q2w2c.72662$eL2.4164609@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> > Similar to the "what's my redline" message, I need to know the answer to
> the
> > following question, and please MORE than one person give your opinion,
> even
> > if they differ!
> >
> > I drive a 1990 Honda Civic LX 1.5L DPFI with 5-speed manual
transmission.
> I
> > just had my engine replaced and the mechanic that did it told me that I
> > should under no circumstances exceed 4500RPM or I'll risk blowing the
> > engine. He even went so far to say that my tachometer (the factory one
on
> > the dash) is wrong to redline at 6500RPM. Now, I know that revving it
up
> to
> > the redline constantly is not good for the motor, but for crying out
loud,
> > the official Honda specs for my car said that the peak horsepower is
> reached
> > at 6000RPM. If they had intended for the engine to never exceed
4500RPM,
> > they would have made the horsepower peak at 4500 instead of 6000. So,
my
> > question is:
> >
> > How high can I rev the engine throughout first and second gear without
> > having to worry about any consequences? (BTW, this engine IS already
> broken
> > in; it has approximately 75k miles on it)
> >
> > I thought that up to 6k was safe since that's where peak hp is, but what
> do
> > all of you Honda experts say?
> >
> > Thanks in advance!!
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
>
>

Jonathan Upright

Thanks for your reply. I agree with you...Anyone else care to agree or
disagree? I need more than one "second opinion".

Thanks again!

Jonathan

"M.C. Tee" <tedwards@LEAVEMEALONEroadrunner.nf.net> wrote in message
news:c2e5ar$1qn$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> mechanic is full of , driving above 4500 will not damage the car,
> driving at 6500 for a long time may, but thats a different story, the
> redline is the redline for a reason, its the maximum you should run your
> engine at
>
>
>
> "Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:q2w2c.72662$eL2.4164609@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> > Similar to the "what's my redline" message, I need to know the answer to
> the
> > following question, and please MORE than one person give your opinion,
> even
> > if they differ!
> >
> > I drive a 1990 Honda Civic LX 1.5L DPFI with 5-speed manual
transmission.
> I
> > just had my engine replaced and the mechanic that did it told me that I
> > should under no circumstances exceed 4500RPM or I'll risk blowing the
> > engine. He even went so far to say that my tachometer (the factory one
on
> > the dash) is wrong to redline at 6500RPM. Now, I know that revving it
up
> to
> > the redline constantly is not good for the motor, but for crying out
loud,
> > the official Honda specs for my car said that the peak horsepower is
> reached
> > at 6000RPM. If they had intended for the engine to never exceed
4500RPM,
> > they would have made the horsepower peak at 4500 instead of 6000. So,
my
> > question is:
> >
> > How high can I rev the engine throughout first and second gear without
> > having to worry about any consequences? (BTW, this engine IS already
> broken
> > in; it has approximately 75k miles on it)
> >
> > I thought that up to 6k was safe since that's where peak hp is, but what
> do
> > all of you Honda experts say?
> >
> > Thanks in advance!!
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
>
>

Yuri Nebogatov

I think your mechanic was referring to the specific engine he used in YOUR
car. It might be already a rebuilt one, one with a previously cracked block
(or whatever)... did he tell you where he got this engine?

If however the engine is fine (non damaged), then dont worry about his
self-imposed RPM limit. 2-4k RPM is the normal driving range, usually, but
going above 4500 wouldnt do any damage. I believe that in 5th you'll be
going above 140 km at least, to need to go above 4500.

"Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CuG2c.52210$%d3.4382038@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> Thanks for your reply. I agree with you...Anyone else care to agree or
> disagree? I need more than one "second opinion".
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Jonathan
>
> "M.C. Tee" <tedwards@LEAVEMEALONEroadrunner.nf.net> wrote in message
> news:c2e5ar$1qn$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> > mechanic is full of , driving above 4500 will not damage the car,
> > driving at 6500 for a long time may, but thats a different story, the
> > redline is the redline for a reason, its the maximum you should run your
> > engine at
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:q2w2c.72662$eL2.4164609@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> > > Similar to the "what's my redline" message, I need to know the answer
to
> > the
> > > following question, and please MORE than one person give your opinion,
> > even
> > > if they differ!
> > >
> > > I drive a 1990 Honda Civic LX 1.5L DPFI with 5-speed manual
> transmission.
> > I
> > > just had my engine replaced and the mechanic that did it told me that
I
> > > should under no circumstances exceed 4500RPM or I'll risk blowing the
> > > engine. He even went so far to say that my tachometer (the factory
one
> on
> > > the dash) is wrong to redline at 6500RPM. Now, I know that revving it
> up
> > to
> > > the redline constantly is not good for the motor, but for crying out
> loud,
> > > the official Honda specs for my car said that the peak horsepower is
> > reached
> > > at 6000RPM. If they had intended for the engine to never exceed
> 4500RPM,
> > > they would have made the horsepower peak at 4500 instead of 6000. So,
> my
> > > question is:
> > >
> > > How high can I rev the engine throughout first and second gear without
> > > having to worry about any consequences? (BTW, this engine IS already
> > broken
> > > in; it has approximately 75k miles on it)
> > >
> > > I thought that up to 6k was safe since that's where peak hp is, but
what
> > do
> > > all of you Honda experts say?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance!!
> > >
> > > Jonathan
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Yuri Nebogatov

I think your mechanic was referring to the specific engine he used in YOUR
car. It might be already a rebuilt one, one with a previously cracked block
(or whatever)... did he tell you where he got this engine?

If however the engine is fine (non damaged), then dont worry about his
self-imposed RPM limit. 2-4k RPM is the normal driving range, usually, but
going above 4500 wouldnt do any damage. I believe that in 5th you'll be
going above 140 km at least, to need to go above 4500.

"Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CuG2c.52210$%d3.4382038@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> Thanks for your reply. I agree with you...Anyone else care to agree or
> disagree? I need more than one "second opinion".
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Jonathan
>
> "M.C. Tee" <tedwards@LEAVEMEALONEroadrunner.nf.net> wrote in message
> news:c2e5ar$1qn$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> > mechanic is full of , driving above 4500 will not damage the car,
> > driving at 6500 for a long time may, but thats a different story, the
> > redline is the redline for a reason, its the maximum you should run your
> > engine at
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:q2w2c.72662$eL2.4164609@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> > > Similar to the "what's my redline" message, I need to know the answer
to
> > the
> > > following question, and please MORE than one person give your opinion,
> > even
> > > if they differ!
> > >
> > > I drive a 1990 Honda Civic LX 1.5L DPFI with 5-speed manual
> transmission.
> > I
> > > just had my engine replaced and the mechanic that did it told me that
I
> > > should under no circumstances exceed 4500RPM or I'll risk blowing the
> > > engine. He even went so far to say that my tachometer (the factory
one
> on
> > > the dash) is wrong to redline at 6500RPM. Now, I know that revving it
> up
> > to
> > > the redline constantly is not good for the motor, but for crying out
> loud,
> > > the official Honda specs for my car said that the peak horsepower is
> > reached
> > > at 6000RPM. If they had intended for the engine to never exceed
> 4500RPM,
> > > they would have made the horsepower peak at 4500 instead of 6000. So,
> my
> > > question is:
> > >
> > > How high can I rev the engine throughout first and second gear without
> > > having to worry about any consequences? (BTW, this engine IS already
> > broken
> > > in; it has approximately 75k miles on it)
> > >
> > > I thought that up to 6k was safe since that's where peak hp is, but
what
> > do
> > > all of you Honda experts say?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance!!
> > >
> > > Jonathan
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Yuri Nebogatov

I think your mechanic was referring to the specific engine he used in YOUR
car. It might be already a rebuilt one, one with a previously cracked block
(or whatever)... did he tell you where he got this engine?

If however the engine is fine (non damaged), then dont worry about his
self-imposed RPM limit. 2-4k RPM is the normal driving range, usually, but
going above 4500 wouldnt do any damage. I believe that in 5th you'll be
going above 140 km at least, to need to go above 4500.

"Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CuG2c.52210$%d3.4382038@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> Thanks for your reply. I agree with you...Anyone else care to agree or
> disagree? I need more than one "second opinion".
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Jonathan
>
> "M.C. Tee" <tedwards@LEAVEMEALONEroadrunner.nf.net> wrote in message
> news:c2e5ar$1qn$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> > mechanic is full of , driving above 4500 will not damage the car,
> > driving at 6500 for a long time may, but thats a different story, the
> > redline is the redline for a reason, its the maximum you should run your
> > engine at
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:q2w2c.72662$eL2.4164609@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> > > Similar to the "what's my redline" message, I need to know the answer
to
> > the
> > > following question, and please MORE than one person give your opinion,
> > even
> > > if they differ!
> > >
> > > I drive a 1990 Honda Civic LX 1.5L DPFI with 5-speed manual
> transmission.
> > I
> > > just had my engine replaced and the mechanic that did it told me that
I
> > > should under no circumstances exceed 4500RPM or I'll risk blowing the
> > > engine. He even went so far to say that my tachometer (the factory
one
> on
> > > the dash) is wrong to redline at 6500RPM. Now, I know that revving it
> up
> > to
> > > the redline constantly is not good for the motor, but for crying out
> loud,
> > > the official Honda specs for my car said that the peak horsepower is
> > reached
> > > at 6000RPM. If they had intended for the engine to never exceed
> 4500RPM,
> > > they would have made the horsepower peak at 4500 instead of 6000. So,
> my
> > > question is:
> > >
> > > How high can I rev the engine throughout first and second gear without
> > > having to worry about any consequences? (BTW, this engine IS already
> > broken
> > > in; it has approximately 75k miles on it)
> > >
> > > I thought that up to 6k was safe since that's where peak hp is, but
what
> > do
> > > all of you Honda experts say?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance!!
> > >
> > > Jonathan
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Yuri Nebogatov

I think your mechanic was referring to the specific engine he used in YOUR
car. It might be already a rebuilt one, one with a previously cracked block
(or whatever)... did he tell you where he got this engine?

If however the engine is fine (non damaged), then dont worry about his
self-imposed RPM limit. 2-4k RPM is the normal driving range, usually, but
going above 4500 wouldnt do any damage. I believe that in 5th you'll be
going above 140 km at least, to need to go above 4500.

"Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CuG2c.52210$%d3.4382038@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> Thanks for your reply. I agree with you...Anyone else care to agree or
> disagree? I need more than one "second opinion".
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Jonathan
>
> "M.C. Tee" <tedwards@LEAVEMEALONEroadrunner.nf.net> wrote in message
> news:c2e5ar$1qn$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> > mechanic is full of , driving above 4500 will not damage the car,
> > driving at 6500 for a long time may, but thats a different story, the
> > redline is the redline for a reason, its the maximum you should run your
> > engine at
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jonathan Upright" <qaesar1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:q2w2c.72662$eL2.4164609@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> > > Similar to the "what's my redline" message, I need to know the answer
to
> > the
> > > following question, and please MORE than one person give your opinion,
> > even
> > > if they differ!
> > >
> > > I drive a 1990 Honda Civic LX 1.5L DPFI with 5-speed manual
> transmission.
> > I
> > > just had my engine replaced and the mechanic that did it told me that
I
> > > should under no circumstances exceed 4500RPM or I'll risk blowing the
> > > engine. He even went so far to say that my tachometer (the factory
one
> on
> > > the dash) is wrong to redline at 6500RPM. Now, I know that revving it
> up
> > to
> > > the redline constantly is not good for the motor, but for crying out
> loud,
> > > the official Honda specs for my car said that the peak horsepower is
> > reached
> > > at 6000RPM. If they had intended for the engine to never exceed
> 4500RPM,
> > > they would have made the horsepower peak at 4500 instead of 6000. So,
> my
> > > question is:
> > >
> > > How high can I rev the engine throughout first and second gear without
> > > having to worry about any consequences? (BTW, this engine IS already
> > broken
> > > in; it has approximately 75k miles on it)
> > >
> > > I thought that up to 6k was safe since that's where peak hp is, but
what
> > do
> > > all of you Honda experts say?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance!!
> > >
> > > Jonathan
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>