mrfcelia@hotmail.com

The car is a 93 Honda Civic EX with a D16Z6 engine, which is a 1.6L.
When i picked up the vechile I was told that the head gasket had blown
on the vehicle.


I have changed the head gasket, which you could see had been blown and
have had the head planed for smoothness and levelness. I have also
changed the water pump, timing belts and thermostat on the vehicle.
After i reassembled the head on the block and had the engine all
together, I started to pour coolant into the radiator and as the
radiator filled to the top i noticed that coolant was coming out slowly
from the oil bolt ( I had taken it off to drain some of the original
slug from when the head blew).


So my question is where is the leak coming from. I have not even tried
to start the car since doing the head job. Could there be a lower
gasket below the head that has been blown? Does it matter which way the
gasket on the head goes on (it is a multilayer steal head gasket? OR is
the engine just completely screwed.


I am puzzled on this so any help would be greatly appreciated!!


Thanks in advance everyone!!

Michael Pardee

<mrfcelia@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127626789.361298.149190@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> The car is a 93 Honda Civic EX with a D16Z6 engine, which is a 1.6L.
> When i picked up the vechile I was told that the head gasket had blown
> on the vehicle.
>
>
> I have changed the head gasket, which you could see had been blown and
> have had the head planed for smoothness and levelness. I have also
> changed the water pump, timing belts and thermostat on the vehicle.
> After i reassembled the head on the block and had the engine all
> together, I started to pour coolant into the radiator and as the
> radiator filled to the top i noticed that coolant was coming out slowly
> from the oil bolt ( I had taken it off to drain some of the original
> slug from when the head blew).
>
>
> So my question is where is the leak coming from. I have not even tried
> to start the car since doing the head job. Could there be a lower
> gasket below the head that has been blown? Does it matter which way the
> gasket on the head goes on (it is a multilayer steal head gasket? OR is
> the engine just completely screwed.
>
>
> I am puzzled on this so any help would be greatly appreciated!!
>
>
> Thanks in advance everyone!!
>
Short answers -
Yes, there is something very wrong.
There is no second gasket below the head gasket.
It matters very much which way the head gasket goes on - that is my top
suspect at this point if you are uncertain which way it went on.
It is possible there is still something seriously wrong with the engine, but
don't borrow trouble. Take it one step at a time.

NOTE: see Eric's post and my question to him on the subject of "89 Prelude."
If the coolant passages do reach the intake manifold gasket, it may not be
necessary to remove the head for the first checks - the problem could be at
the manifold gasket. I recommend his advice on that.

Otherwise... sorry to say, the head has to come back off. Whatever the
problem is, you can't do anything about it until the head is off, and you
can hope the gasket is not on right. In any event, do not reuse the gasket
you have now once you remove the head again. They are "crush fit" and the
gasket will not last long (may not work right at all) if you reuse it. Use a
genuine Honda head gasket for your own sanity.

There is a chance the block or head is cracked (since the head was milled, I
would hope the shop at least looked the head over first) since you got it
with the engine not running. But, here's the thing. If the coolant is
running into the crankcase faster than when it had the blown head gasket, it
is reasonable to expect the problem you are seeing to be related to a
boo-boo in reassembling it.

Mike

Eric

Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> <mrfcelia@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1127626789.361298.149190@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> > The car is a 93 Honda Civic EX with a D16Z6 engine, which is a 1.6L.
> > When i picked up the vechile I was told that the head gasket had blown
> > on the vehicle.
> >
> >
> > I have changed the head gasket, which you could see had been blown and
> > have had the head planed for smoothness and levelness. I have also
> > changed the water pump, timing belts and thermostat on the vehicle.
> > After i reassembled the head on the block and had the engine all
> > together, I started to pour coolant into the radiator and as the
> > radiator filled to the top i noticed that coolant was coming out slowly
> > from the oil bolt ( I had taken it off to drain some of the original
> > slug from when the head blew).
> >
> >
> > So my question is where is the leak coming from. I have not even tried
> > to start the car since doing the head job. Could there be a lower
> > gasket below the head that has been blown? Does it matter which way the
> > gasket on the head goes on (it is a multilayer steal head gasket? OR is
> > the engine just completely screwed.
> >
> >
> > I am puzzled on this so any help would be greatly appreciated!!
> >
> >
> > Thanks in advance everyone!!
> >
> Short answers -
> Yes, there is something very wrong.
> There is no second gasket below the head gasket.
> It matters very much which way the head gasket goes on - that is my top
> suspect at this point if you are uncertain which way it went on.
> It is possible there is still something seriously wrong with the engine,
> but don't borrow trouble. Take it one step at a time.
>
> NOTE: see Eric's post and my question to him on the subject of "89
> Prelude." If the coolant passages do reach the intake manifold gasket,
> it may not be necessary to remove the head for the first checks - the
> problem could be at the manifold gasket. I recommend his advice on that.

This doesn't seem likely. The leaks into the intake manifold runners are
usually small. Moreover, the intake manifold gasket does not usually seal
coolant passages.

> Otherwise... sorry to say, the head has to come back off. Whatever the
> problem is, you can't do anything about it until the head is off, and you
> can hope the gasket is not on right. In any event, do not reuse the gasket
> you have now once you remove the head again. They are "crush fit" and the
> gasket will not last long (may not work right at all) if you reuse it.
> Use a genuine Honda head gasket for your own sanity.
>
> There is a chance the block or head is cracked (since the head was milled,
> I would hope the shop at least looked the head over first) since you got
> it with the engine not running. But, here's the thing. If the coolant is
> running into the crankcase faster than when it had the blown head gasket,
> it is reasonable to expect the problem you are seeing to be related to a
> boo-boo in reassembling it.
>
> Mike

I agree with Mike. The head needs to come back off. I suspect that the
head may be cracked and that it needs to be pressure checked. If the
machine shop checked it then the problem lies elsewhere. My next likely
suspect would be that the gasket did not seal. This could be due to an
unclean block surface, the gasket was not installed correctly, or perhaps
the head was not torqued down correctly. With respect to the latter case,
I've heard a report of someone who torqued their head bolts down starting
from the outer ones first and then working inwards. This prevented the head
gasket from seating flat. The car ran but was leaking compression from
between the head and block. I imagine that this condition would not last
long as the leaking compression would quickly destroy the gasket. Anyways,
the last suspect would be a damaged block. I put this last since Honda's
engine blocks have historically been pretty reliable.

Eric

Funk

Alright I will pull the head back off and try to reseal the head with a
new gasket. What are the chances that the block is cracked and seeping
into the oil pan? What should i clean the block with that will be more
effective? How can you tell which side of the head gasket is supposed
to be upwards. With the multi layer steal gasket both sides look alike
the only difference is the openings that are around the cylinders. One
side is open wide while the other has smaller pin hole openings.

Eric

mrfcelia@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> The car is a 93 Honda Civic EX with a D16Z6 engine, which is a 1.6L.
> When i picked up the vechile I was told that the head gasket had blown
> on the vehicle.
>
> I have changed the head gasket, which you could see had been blown and
> have had the head planed for smoothness and levelness. I have also
> changed the water pump, timing belts and thermostat on the vehicle.
> After i reassembled the head on the block and had the engine all
> together, I started to pour coolant into the radiator and as the
> radiator filled to the top i noticed that coolant was coming out slowly
> from the oil bolt ( I had taken it off to drain some of the original
> slug from when the head blew).
>
> So my question is where is the leak coming from. I have not even tried
> to start the car since doing the head job. Could there be a lower
> gasket below the head that has been blown? Does it matter which way the
> gasket on the head goes on (it is a multilayer steal head gasket? OR is
> the engine just completely screwed.
>
> I am puzzled on this so any help would be greatly appreciated!!
>
> Thanks in advance everyone!!

I forgot to ask the painfully obvious but necessary question. That is, are
you absolutely certain that the coolant is coming out of the oil drain plug
hole or could it possibly be leaking down the back side of the engine from a
broken coolant hose?

Eric

Charlie S

You didn't mention what you did to clean the top of the block.
It's harder to clean than the head because of the studs.

To have coolant coming out like you describe, you have to have done
something wrong. The flow through a crack is usually less fluid than
you describe.




2005 13:05:18 -0700, Eric <say.no@spam.now> wrote:

>mrfcelia@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> The car is a 93 Honda Civic EX with a D16Z6 engine, which is a 1.6L.
>> When i picked up the vechile I was told that the head gasket had blown
>> on the vehicle.
>>
>> I have changed the head gasket, which you could see had been blown and
>> have had the head planed for smoothness and levelness. I have also
>> changed the water pump, timing belts and thermostat on the vehicle.
>> After i reassembled the head on the block and had the engine all
>> together, I started to pour coolant into the radiator and as the
>> radiator filled to the top i noticed that coolant was coming out slowly
>> from the oil bolt ( I had taken it off to drain some of the original
>> slug from when the head blew).
>>
>> So my question is where is the leak coming from. I have not even tried
>> to start the car since doing the head job. Could there be a lower
>> gasket below the head that has been blown? Does it matter which way the
>> gasket on the head goes on (it is a multilayer steal head gasket? OR is
>> the engine just completely screwed.
>>
>> I am puzzled on this so any help would be greatly appreciated!!
>>
>> Thanks in advance everyone!!
>
>I forgot to ask the painfully obvious but necessary question. That is, are
>you absolutely certain that the coolant is coming out of the oil drain plug
>hole or could it possibly be leaking down the back side of the engine from a
>broken coolant hose?
>
>Eric

Frank

Its no problem eric. I do appreciate the question cause it could be
something i overlooked, but i did examine it closely to make sure that
it was for sure coming directly from the oil bolt.

Michael Pardee

"Frank" <fmc23@drexel.edu> wrote in message
news:1127764261.368890.99550@g43g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Its no problem eric. I do appreciate the question cause it could be
> something i overlooked, but i did examine it closely to make sure that
> it was for sure coming directly from the oil bolt.
>
My hat's off to Eric - any possible and simple alternative to removing the
head again undoubtedly looks mighty attractive!

Mike

Frank

Charlie I used scotch bright to clean the block. The machine shop
recommend it. Would you recommend something else to clean it with? Any
recommendations on how or what to use to clean the block would be
appreciated.

Charlie S

There is a chance that the guy who was driving the car without coolant
could have done something real stupid and there were two failures and
you only fixed one.

Before you take the head off again.....check the availability in your
area of used engines from Japan. They used to be a law in Japan that
at 30,00 miles you junked the car.
Last time I looked, these engines and trannys were still available.
It's worth a look.

Last time I blew a head, I used SteelSeal to fix it.
http://www.steelseal.com/eng/home.html
Read this web page. You may learn something but I don't think
SteelSeal will work for you. Your leak is too big.

Charlie

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:49:15 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:

>"Frank" <fmc23@drexel.edu> wrote in message
>news:1127764261.368890.99550@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> Its no problem eric. I do appreciate the question cause it could be
>> something i overlooked, but i did examine it closely to make sure that
>> it was for sure coming directly from the oil bolt.
>>
>My hat's off to Eric - any possible and simple alternative to removing the
>head again undoubtedly looks mighty attractive!
>
>Mike
>