canuguy

Attn to Dave Kelsen-->Best response I've seen on a newsgroup in a long time
I agree 100% with your views.
I still remember the time a long time ago a "DRL" (Daytime Running Light)
error message appeared on the dash of my wife's Nissan Sentra. This was
when they were first being introduced to the regular market. I (falsely)
assumed it was an electrical problem and brought it to the Nissan dealer.
15 minutes later I was given a bill of around $40. ($15 light bulb, $20
labour + taxes). Yep. They actually charged me $20 for changing a light
bulb. I know I should have checked the damn bulb first and it was stupid of
me, but I wasn't thinking. Anyways, I paid the bill, but NEVER returned to
the dealership for service again. My next car was a Honda because I was so
upset over the bill despite the fact I was pleased overall with that little
Sentra. It's that type of gouging that turns people off. EVERY single
mechanic my father ever dealt with would have replaced the bulb, laughed
at/teased him for missing the obvious and ONLY charged for the part.
I know businesses don't make money by doing everything for free. But
common sense would/should let a service manager know when to let the little
things slide for nothing. But then again, common sense would/should have
told me to check the damn bulb in the first place:-)


http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/desjar







"Dave Kelsen" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:wCBTc.34465$wM.11543@twister.tampabay.rr.com. ..
> On 8/14/2004 8:01 PM Chip Stein spake these words of knowledge:
>
>
> >> > Yes, I know, it was stupid to take it to the dealer and I have
> >> > learned my lesson, but it still stings pretty bad. I am a huge Honda
> >> > fan, but this has soured me a little.... funny thing is that we were
> >> > going in to look at Odysseys at that dealership this weekend, not
> >> > now.
> >> >
> >> > brian drake
> >> > charlotte, nc
> >>
> >> --
> >
> > so what you are saying is that the tech's time and the dealerships
> > time is worth nothing. the fact that you left your gas cap loose is
> > not their problem, it's yours! and it should cost you. that piece of
> > equipment they read your codes with is called the HDS and costs them
> > about 6000.00. it has to get paid for. what line of work are you in
> > by the way????
> > Chip
>
>
> No, Chip; that's not how it works. Nor is that how it *used* to work.
> Here's how it *did* used to work. When you had a problem, you took it
> to someone you trusted to be competent, and trusted not to you too
> hard on the cost. If they couldn't diagnose the problem, they didn't
> charge you. If they did diagnose the problem, they told you what it
> was. If you couldn't get it fixed right then, you didn't; you would
> usually pay some sort of fee for the diagnosis at this time, or you left
> with the understanding that when you did get it fixed, you would do it
> at that shop. They trusted you to be fair and honest with them.
>
> If you did get it fixed right then, you did it there; you trusted them
> to be fair and honest with you.
>
> If there wasn't any actual problem, say something like the problem
> outlined by the originating poster of a loose gascap, they told you, you
> said thanks, and went home. When you had a problem in the future, you
> remembered how you were treated and took it back to the same shop.
>
> No one's time or labor is thought to be worthless; you have working
> people who trust the shop to be competent, fair and honest, and you have
> repair shop personnel who trust that their customers will recognize
> value received and become satisfied, repeat customers.
>
> In contrast, I was charged $279 not long ago for an oil change, tire
> rotation, and a list of 'inspections' which took roughly six minutes to
> perform on my Odyssey, by the Honda shop. Unfortunately, there is only
> one in my area, and no one else I trust to do these inspections.
>
> It's free enterprise, of course; I don't have to take my Honda there for
> service. But it isn't right, not by a long shot.
>
> I know you asked Brian this question, but I'm going to answer; I have a
> company that services computers, and does networking and other
> computer-related work (www.wetumpkatechnology.com). Not long ago, I was
> called to a law office to diagnose a computer problem. Although I spent
> two hours, I was unable to determine the cause of the problem. My
> hourly rate is $90, but in this case I chose not to charge even the $35
> rate I charge just to show up. I told them that I didn't find, much
> less fix, the problem. I told them (well, wrote down for them) what to
> say to the manufacturer to take the next step in resolving it.
>
> That law firm has become one of my best customers; I have worked on
> their systems, and worked on the home PCs of some of the employees as
well.
>
> Because they trust me not to 'em over on the price, and not to
> bullshit with them. Because I took a chance and didn't charge them when
> I couldn't help them.
>
> This economic model works; older people will tell you that that's how it
> used to work all the time. It still does - or can.
>
>
> RFT!!!
> Dave Kelsen
> --
> "The best years of your life are the ones in which you decide your
> problems are your own. You do not blame them on your mother, the
> ecology or the president. You realize that you control your own
> destiny." -- Albert Ellis

canuguy

Attn to Dave Kelsen-->Best response I've seen on a newsgroup in a long time
I agree 100% with your views.
I still remember the time a long time ago a "DRL" (Daytime Running Light)
error message appeared on the dash of my wife's Nissan Sentra. This was
when they were first being introduced to the regular market. I (falsely)
assumed it was an electrical problem and brought it to the Nissan dealer.
15 minutes later I was given a bill of around $40. ($15 light bulb, $20
labour + taxes). Yep. They actually charged me $20 for changing a light
bulb. I know I should have checked the damn bulb first and it was stupid of
me, but I wasn't thinking. Anyways, I paid the bill, but NEVER returned to
the dealership for service again. My next car was a Honda because I was so
upset over the bill despite the fact I was pleased overall with that little
Sentra. It's that type of gouging that turns people off. EVERY single
mechanic my father ever dealt with would have replaced the bulb, laughed
at/teased him for missing the obvious and ONLY charged for the part.
I know businesses don't make money by doing everything for free. But
common sense would/should let a service manager know when to let the little
things slide for nothing. But then again, common sense would/should have
told me to check the damn bulb in the first place:-)


http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/desjar







"Dave Kelsen" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:wCBTc.34465$wM.11543@twister.tampabay.rr.com. ..
> On 8/14/2004 8:01 PM Chip Stein spake these words of knowledge:
>
>
> >> > Yes, I know, it was stupid to take it to the dealer and I have
> >> > learned my lesson, but it still stings pretty bad. I am a huge Honda
> >> > fan, but this has soured me a little.... funny thing is that we were
> >> > going in to look at Odysseys at that dealership this weekend, not
> >> > now.
> >> >
> >> > brian drake
> >> > charlotte, nc
> >>
> >> --
> >
> > so what you are saying is that the tech's time and the dealerships
> > time is worth nothing. the fact that you left your gas cap loose is
> > not their problem, it's yours! and it should cost you. that piece of
> > equipment they read your codes with is called the HDS and costs them
> > about 6000.00. it has to get paid for. what line of work are you in
> > by the way????
> > Chip
>
>
> No, Chip; that's not how it works. Nor is that how it *used* to work.
> Here's how it *did* used to work. When you had a problem, you took it
> to someone you trusted to be competent, and trusted not to you too
> hard on the cost. If they couldn't diagnose the problem, they didn't
> charge you. If they did diagnose the problem, they told you what it
> was. If you couldn't get it fixed right then, you didn't; you would
> usually pay some sort of fee for the diagnosis at this time, or you left
> with the understanding that when you did get it fixed, you would do it
> at that shop. They trusted you to be fair and honest with them.
>
> If you did get it fixed right then, you did it there; you trusted them
> to be fair and honest with you.
>
> If there wasn't any actual problem, say something like the problem
> outlined by the originating poster of a loose gascap, they told you, you
> said thanks, and went home. When you had a problem in the future, you
> remembered how you were treated and took it back to the same shop.
>
> No one's time or labor is thought to be worthless; you have working
> people who trust the shop to be competent, fair and honest, and you have
> repair shop personnel who trust that their customers will recognize
> value received and become satisfied, repeat customers.
>
> In contrast, I was charged $279 not long ago for an oil change, tire
> rotation, and a list of 'inspections' which took roughly six minutes to
> perform on my Odyssey, by the Honda shop. Unfortunately, there is only
> one in my area, and no one else I trust to do these inspections.
>
> It's free enterprise, of course; I don't have to take my Honda there for
> service. But it isn't right, not by a long shot.
>
> I know you asked Brian this question, but I'm going to answer; I have a
> company that services computers, and does networking and other
> computer-related work (www.wetumpkatechnology.com). Not long ago, I was
> called to a law office to diagnose a computer problem. Although I spent
> two hours, I was unable to determine the cause of the problem. My
> hourly rate is $90, but in this case I chose not to charge even the $35
> rate I charge just to show up. I told them that I didn't find, much
> less fix, the problem. I told them (well, wrote down for them) what to
> say to the manufacturer to take the next step in resolving it.
>
> That law firm has become one of my best customers; I have worked on
> their systems, and worked on the home PCs of some of the employees as
well.
>
> Because they trust me not to 'em over on the price, and not to
> bullshit with them. Because I took a chance and didn't charge them when
> I couldn't help them.
>
> This economic model works; older people will tell you that that's how it
> used to work all the time. It still does - or can.
>
>
> RFT!!!
> Dave Kelsen
> --
> "The best years of your life are the ones in which you decide your
> problems are your own. You do not blame them on your mother, the
> ecology or the president. You realize that you control your own
> destiny." -- Albert Ellis

Brian Drake

I'm in the banking / finance business. As I said in my original post, I
believe that some type of compensation was due since it did take up some of
their time, but 86.00 is excessive to the point of robbery plus I thing they
could have reset the light for me and sent me on my way without all the
testing (since I told them what happened). 6000.00 doesn't seem like very
much to me for a piece of diagnostic equipment, but assuming your right,
that means that at those outragous prices, they could pay off the machine in
roughly 69 loose gas cap visits, and the rest is profit (not including labor
costs).

Something else I noticed was some type of organized labor logo on the
'customer satisfaction' letter I had in my car after the work was
performed..... that could be the full explanation right there, I don't
remember this being a Union shop in the past. I am told by some that the
dealerships have 'set costs' that they charge for things no matter how long
they actually take to perform, which means they probably 'estimate' that an
issue such as this takes 30 min to work on..... so they rip me a new one on
the 86.00 spend 15 minutes on it and move on to the next sucker and double
their profit per hour, etc. Sucks, but I'll chalk this one up to an
expensive lesson.




"Chip Stein" <chip@chipanddebby.com> wrote in message
news:5ddcea74.0408141701.6c65267a@posting.google.c om...
> > > Yes, I know, it was stupid to take it to the dealer and I have
> > > learned my lesson, but it still stings pretty bad. I am a huge Honda
> > > fan, but this has soured me a little.... funny thing is that we were
> > > going in to look at Odysseys at that dealership this weekend, not
> > > now.
> > >
> > > brian drake
> > > charlotte, nc
> >
> > --
>
> so what you are saying is that the tech's time and the dealerships
> time is worth nothing. the fact that you left your gas cap loose is
> not their problem, it's yours! and it should cost you. that piece of
> equipment they read your codes with is called the HDS and costs them
> about 6000.00. it has to get paid for. what line of work are you in
> by the way????
> Chip

Brian Drake

I'm in the banking / finance business. As I said in my original post, I
believe that some type of compensation was due since it did take up some of
their time, but 86.00 is excessive to the point of robbery plus I thing they
could have reset the light for me and sent me on my way without all the
testing (since I told them what happened). 6000.00 doesn't seem like very
much to me for a piece of diagnostic equipment, but assuming your right,
that means that at those outragous prices, they could pay off the machine in
roughly 69 loose gas cap visits, and the rest is profit (not including labor
costs).

Something else I noticed was some type of organized labor logo on the
'customer satisfaction' letter I had in my car after the work was
performed..... that could be the full explanation right there, I don't
remember this being a Union shop in the past. I am told by some that the
dealerships have 'set costs' that they charge for things no matter how long
they actually take to perform, which means they probably 'estimate' that an
issue such as this takes 30 min to work on..... so they rip me a new one on
the 86.00 spend 15 minutes on it and move on to the next sucker and double
their profit per hour, etc. Sucks, but I'll chalk this one up to an
expensive lesson.




"Chip Stein" <chip@chipanddebby.com> wrote in message
news:5ddcea74.0408141701.6c65267a@posting.google.c om...
> > > Yes, I know, it was stupid to take it to the dealer and I have
> > > learned my lesson, but it still stings pretty bad. I am a huge Honda
> > > fan, but this has soured me a little.... funny thing is that we were
> > > going in to look at Odysseys at that dealership this weekend, not
> > > now.
> > >
> > > brian drake
> > > charlotte, nc
> >
> > --
>
> so what you are saying is that the tech's time and the dealerships
> time is worth nothing. the fact that you left your gas cap loose is
> not their problem, it's yours! and it should cost you. that piece of
> equipment they read your codes with is called the HDS and costs them
> about 6000.00. it has to get paid for. what line of work are you in
> by the way????
> Chip

Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <TQGTc.195204$tH1.9910916@twister.southeast.rr.com >,
"Brian Drake" <nospambdrake1@carolina.rr.com> wrote:

> I'm in the banking / finance business. As I said in my original post, I
> believe that some type of compensation was due since it did take up some of
> their time, but 86.00 is excessive to the point of robbery plus I thing they
> could have reset the light for me and sent me on my way without all the
> testing (since I told them what happened).

My dealership would have done that. However, I have a long standing and
very good relationship with my dealer.

Had I gone to someone I don't know, I would expect to pay him for his
time as we have no relationship at all. That's just the business world.

Do YOU have a good and long standing relationship with this dealer?

Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <TQGTc.195204$tH1.9910916@twister.southeast.rr.com >,
"Brian Drake" <nospambdrake1@carolina.rr.com> wrote:

> I'm in the banking / finance business. As I said in my original post, I
> believe that some type of compensation was due since it did take up some of
> their time, but 86.00 is excessive to the point of robbery plus I thing they
> could have reset the light for me and sent me on my way without all the
> testing (since I told them what happened).

My dealership would have done that. However, I have a long standing and
very good relationship with my dealer.

Had I gone to someone I don't know, I would expect to pay him for his
time as we have no relationship at all. That's just the business world.

Do YOU have a good and long standing relationship with this dealer?

Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <TQGTc.195204$tH1.9910916@twister.southeast.rr.com >,
"Brian Drake" <nospambdrake1@carolina.rr.com> wrote:

> Something else I noticed was some type of organized labor logo on the
> 'customer satisfaction' letter I had in my car after the work was
> performed..... that could be the full explanation right there, I don't
> remember this being a Union shop in the past. I am told by some that the
> dealerships have 'set costs' that they charge for things no matter how long
> they actually take to perform, which means they probably 'estimate' that an
> issue such as this takes 30 min to work on..... so they rip me a new one on
> the 86.00 spend 15 minutes on it and move on to the next sucker and double
> their profit per hour, etc. Sucks, but I'll chalk this one up to an
> expensive lesson.

Dude, you need to get out more. This is how dealerships work, and have
worked forever. Not only dealerships, but all auto repair.

The book says the repair takes X amount of time. You pay for that.
You're bitching that the guy took less time than that, yet you paid for
the book rate. Hey, this is what promotes good technicians; they might
work an 8 hour day, but get paid for 11 or 12 hours worth of work. If
they're good, they deserve to be recognized for that.

Let's turn that around, shall we? Let's suppose you got the shop
doofus, who took X + 3 hours to do the work. If you're paying for
ACTUAL time, you just paid for the fact that you got a newbie, a guy
who's struggling to find his way around the shop and around your car.
Why didn't I get the one good guy in the shop, you're asking yourself.
But hey, you were the one who wanted to pay ACTUAL time spent, right?

The flat rate protects you from the unexpected and from morons, and it
promotes the good technicians and keeps them there and gives huge
incentive for them to stay good technicians.

You can bitch about the flat rate all you want, but if it weren't flat
rate--if you paid for the actual time the tech spent in front of your
car--you'd be bitching about that, too.

If you're going to bitch about auto repair, then fix it yourself. Do
some reading ahead of time, and know that a loose gas cap is the VERY
FIRST thing you check when you see the check engine light--and that the
light will go out on its own once you fix the loose gas cap. You didn't
take the time to understand this--shoot, it's in the owner's manual, and
it's obvious you never even read that--so you pay someone else for that
knowledge as needed.

Is that so hard to understand?

Do you frequently go to places that give their time and expertise away
to some random Joe who walks in the door, some guy they've never seen
before? Do YOU give YOUR time and expertise away to random people who
walk in the door?

Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <TQGTc.195204$tH1.9910916@twister.southeast.rr.com >,
"Brian Drake" <nospambdrake1@carolina.rr.com> wrote:

> Something else I noticed was some type of organized labor logo on the
> 'customer satisfaction' letter I had in my car after the work was
> performed..... that could be the full explanation right there, I don't
> remember this being a Union shop in the past. I am told by some that the
> dealerships have 'set costs' that they charge for things no matter how long
> they actually take to perform, which means they probably 'estimate' that an
> issue such as this takes 30 min to work on..... so they rip me a new one on
> the 86.00 spend 15 minutes on it and move on to the next sucker and double
> their profit per hour, etc. Sucks, but I'll chalk this one up to an
> expensive lesson.

Dude, you need to get out more. This is how dealerships work, and have
worked forever. Not only dealerships, but all auto repair.

The book says the repair takes X amount of time. You pay for that.
You're bitching that the guy took less time than that, yet you paid for
the book rate. Hey, this is what promotes good technicians; they might
work an 8 hour day, but get paid for 11 or 12 hours worth of work. If
they're good, they deserve to be recognized for that.

Let's turn that around, shall we? Let's suppose you got the shop
doofus, who took X + 3 hours to do the work. If you're paying for
ACTUAL time, you just paid for the fact that you got a newbie, a guy
who's struggling to find his way around the shop and around your car.
Why didn't I get the one good guy in the shop, you're asking yourself.
But hey, you were the one who wanted to pay ACTUAL time spent, right?

The flat rate protects you from the unexpected and from morons, and it
promotes the good technicians and keeps them there and gives huge
incentive for them to stay good technicians.

You can bitch about the flat rate all you want, but if it weren't flat
rate--if you paid for the actual time the tech spent in front of your
car--you'd be bitching about that, too.

If you're going to bitch about auto repair, then fix it yourself. Do
some reading ahead of time, and know that a loose gas cap is the VERY
FIRST thing you check when you see the check engine light--and that the
light will go out on its own once you fix the loose gas cap. You didn't
take the time to understand this--shoot, it's in the owner's manual, and
it's obvious you never even read that--so you pay someone else for that
knowledge as needed.

Is that so hard to understand?

Do you frequently go to places that give their time and expertise away
to some random Joe who walks in the door, some guy they've never seen
before? Do YOU give YOUR time and expertise away to random people who
walk in the door?

Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <wCBTc.34465$wM.11543@twister.tampabay.rr.com>,
Dave Kelsen <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> It's free enterprise, of course; I don't have to take my Honda there for
> service. But it isn't right, not by a long shot.

If people pay for it, it's right.

People pay five bucks for a cup of Starbucks coffee. That isn't right,
not by a long shot. Are you suggesting that Starbucks ought not to be
allowed to charge that for a cup of coffee?

If people are willing to pay it, there's nothing wrong with charging it.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <wCBTc.34465$wM.11543@twister.tampabay.rr.com>,
Dave Kelsen <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> It's free enterprise, of course; I don't have to take my Honda there for
> service. But it isn't right, not by a long shot.

If people pay for it, it's right.

People pay five bucks for a cup of Starbucks coffee. That isn't right,
not by a long shot. Are you suggesting that Starbucks ought not to be
allowed to charge that for a cup of coffee?

If people are willing to pay it, there's nothing wrong with charging it.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <wCBTc.34465$wM.11543@twister.tampabay.rr.com>,
Dave Kelsen <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> I know you asked Brian this question, but I'm going to answer; I have a
> company that services computers, and does networking and other
> computer-related work (www.wetumpkatechnology.com). Not long ago, I was
> called to a law office to diagnose a computer problem. Although I spent
> two hours, I was unable to determine the cause of the problem. My
> hourly rate is $90, but in this case I chose not to charge even the $35
> rate I charge just to show up. I told them that I didn't find, much
> less fix, the problem. I told them (well, wrote down for them) what to
> say to the manufacturer to take the next step in resolving it.
>
> That law firm has become one of my best customers; I have worked on
> their systems, and worked on the home PCs of some of the employees as well.
>
> Because they trust me not to 'em over on the price, and not to
> bullshit with them. Because I took a chance and didn't charge them when
> I couldn't help them.
>
> This economic model works; older people will tell you that that's how it
> used to work all the time. It still does - or can.

It works for me all day long at my favorite Honda dealership. But we
have a relationship that goes back over 20 years.

When some random Joe walks in the door, someone they've never see before
and therefore never expect to see again, it's a crap shoot. They can do
it your way, and probably never see the guy again--in fact, read
postings on the Usenet about how "I screwed that stealer, he gave it to
me"--or they could do it by the book.

Given the number of people who have serious attitudes about dealership
service, it's probably prudent nowadays for the dealer to charge in
those circumstances. The dealership is better off waiting to see if a
customer will be a long term customer, and then take care of him. It's
probably not prudent for the dealer to give stuff away and hope that
such a gesture is meaningful, in this day and age of people inherently
distrusting the dealership for no reason other than "it's the
stealership, what did you expect".

Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <wCBTc.34465$wM.11543@twister.tampabay.rr.com>,
Dave Kelsen <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> I know you asked Brian this question, but I'm going to answer; I have a
> company that services computers, and does networking and other
> computer-related work (www.wetumpkatechnology.com). Not long ago, I was
> called to a law office to diagnose a computer problem. Although I spent
> two hours, I was unable to determine the cause of the problem. My
> hourly rate is $90, but in this case I chose not to charge even the $35
> rate I charge just to show up. I told them that I didn't find, much
> less fix, the problem. I told them (well, wrote down for them) what to
> say to the manufacturer to take the next step in resolving it.
>
> That law firm has become one of my best customers; I have worked on
> their systems, and worked on the home PCs of some of the employees as well.
>
> Because they trust me not to 'em over on the price, and not to
> bullshit with them. Because I took a chance and didn't charge them when
> I couldn't help them.
>
> This economic model works; older people will tell you that that's how it
> used to work all the time. It still does - or can.

It works for me all day long at my favorite Honda dealership. But we
have a relationship that goes back over 20 years.

When some random Joe walks in the door, someone they've never see before
and therefore never expect to see again, it's a crap shoot. They can do
it your way, and probably never see the guy again--in fact, read
postings on the Usenet about how "I screwed that stealer, he gave it to
me"--or they could do it by the book.

Given the number of people who have serious attitudes about dealership
service, it's probably prudent nowadays for the dealer to charge in
those circumstances. The dealership is better off waiting to see if a
customer will be a long term customer, and then take care of him. It's
probably not prudent for the dealer to give stuff away and hope that
such a gesture is meaningful, in this day and age of people inherently
distrusting the dealership for no reason other than "it's the
stealership, what did you expect".

Steve Bigelow

"Brian Drake" <nospambdrake1@carolina.rr.com> wrote in message
news:TQGTc.195204$tH1.9910916@twister.southeast.rr .com...
> I'm in the banking / finance business. As I said in my original post, I
> believe that some type of compensation was due since it did take up some
of
> their time, but 86.00 is excessive to the point of robbery plus I thing
they
> could have reset the light for me and sent me on my way without all the
> testing (since I told them what happened). 6000.00 doesn't seem like very
> much to me for a piece of diagnostic equipment, but assuming your right,
> that means that at those outragous prices, they could pay off the machine
in
> roughly 69 loose gas cap visits, and the rest is profit (not including
labor
> costs).

Well, only if you have no other costs in running a business. I'll assume the
machine was solar powered, sitting in the middle of an public field.


How long did it take for the diagnosis?

Steve Bigelow

"Brian Drake" <nospambdrake1@carolina.rr.com> wrote in message
news:TQGTc.195204$tH1.9910916@twister.southeast.rr .com...
> I'm in the banking / finance business. As I said in my original post, I
> believe that some type of compensation was due since it did take up some
of
> their time, but 86.00 is excessive to the point of robbery plus I thing
they
> could have reset the light for me and sent me on my way without all the
> testing (since I told them what happened). 6000.00 doesn't seem like very
> much to me for a piece of diagnostic equipment, but assuming your right,
> that means that at those outragous prices, they could pay off the machine
in
> roughly 69 loose gas cap visits, and the rest is profit (not including
labor
> costs).

Well, only if you have no other costs in running a business. I'll assume the
machine was solar powered, sitting in the middle of an public field.


How long did it take for the diagnosis?

Caroline

"Dave Kelsen" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote
snip
> I know you asked Brian this question, but I'm going to answer; I have a
> company that services computers, and does networking and other
> computer-related work (www.wetumpkatechnology.com). Not long ago, I was
> called to a law office to diagnose a computer problem. Although I spent
> two hours, I was unable to determine the cause of the problem. My
> hourly rate is $90, but in this case I chose not to charge even the $35
> rate I charge just to show up. I told them that I didn't find, much
> less fix, the problem. I told them (well, wrote down for them) what to
> say to the manufacturer to take the next step in resolving it.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

What you did was essentially offer a teaser rate.

> That law firm has become one of my best customers; I have worked on
> their systems, and worked on the home PCs of some of the employees as well.

You've simply undercut the market <shrug>.

> Because they trust me not to 'em over on the price, and not to
> bullshit with them. Because I took a chance and didn't charge them when
> I couldn't help them.
>
> This economic model works; older people will tell you that that's how it
> used to work all the time. It still does - or can.

So too does the economic model that a person's time is worth money. I don't care
if a person is a doctor, a lawyer, a plumber, a nurse, or a car technician.

If shops are now charging time for attempting to diagnose a problem without
solving the problem, they are merely taking a cue from the so-called white
collar professions that have been doing this for years.

No white collar professional has grounds to complain.