pjohnson

I'm replacing the timing belt for the 90k service. Whats the recommendation
on replacing the shaft seals? Are they pretty easy to pull and replace once
the gears are off?

--


Paul J.

Cosmin N.

pjohnson wrote:
> I'm replacing the timing belt for the 90k service. Whats the recommendation
> on replacing the shaft seals? Are they pretty easy to pull and replace once
> the gears are off?
>

I've had two timing belts replaced on my old 94 Accord, and I never had
the seals replaced. You should definitely replace the water pump though.

Cosmin

E. Meyer

On 6/15/04 2:14 AM, in article
Flxzc.104$ueI1.27@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers .com, "Cosmin N."
<no@email.com> wrote:

> pjohnson wrote:
>> I'm replacing the timing belt for the 90k service. Whats the recommendation
>> on replacing the shaft seals? Are they pretty easy to pull and replace once
>> the gears are off?
>>
>
> I've had two timing belts replaced on my old 94 Accord, and I never had
> the seals replaced. You should definitely replace the water pump though.
>
> Cosmin

Never had a problem with the camshaft or crankshaft seals, but there was a
recall to install retainers on the balancer shaft seals. They are known to
pop out and all your oil goes out with it if it happens. If you haven't had
the recall performed, now would be a good time to get the retainers and
install them. You also want to replace the balancer belt while you are in
there and the tensioner probably needs at least a new spring.

Caroline

My 91 Civic is at 153k. I am in the process of replacing the front crank seal
(a.k.a. front oil pump seal), as many have recommended as part of a timing belt
job. The seal is coming out in tiny pieces. I'm tearing it up with an exacto
knife, a small screwdriver, and pliers, trying to spare damage to the journal.
I'm now considering removing the oil pump to do this right.

This seal seems practically hardened into place. Maybe it's the original and
this is why this is why it's such a bear. Will google to say if there are
suggestions on this.

Breaking the crankshaft pulley bolt free last week has paid off, anyway. Today
when I went to remove it, it came off very easily, with I estimate no more than
150 ft-lbs. of torque.

"pjohnson" <news@thejohnsonabode.com> wrote
> I'm replacing the timing belt for the 90k service. Whats the recommendation
> on replacing the shaft seals? Are they pretty easy to pull and replace once
> the gears are off?

pjohnson

I went through the same problem with the stuck bolt. I found friendly
mechanic with an impact wrench it couldn't say no to. Funny how you run into
different opinions. One block up from this guy was a mechanic who swore you
had to heat it up to 700F to break the loctite loose and that you should
always replace the cam and crank seals.

The next guy sais there is no loctite and only replace the seals if they are
leaking.

Oh well!



"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:x2Mzc.5955$Wr.5304@newsread1.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
> My 91 Civic is at 153k. I am in the process of replacing the front crank
seal
> (a.k.a. front oil pump seal), as many have recommended as part of a timing
belt
> job. The seal is coming out in tiny pieces. I'm tearing it up with an
exacto
> knife, a small screwdriver, and pliers, trying to spare damage to the
journal.
> I'm now considering removing the oil pump to do this right.
>
> This seal seems practically hardened into place. Maybe it's the original
and
> this is why this is why it's such a bear. Will google to say if there are
> suggestions on this.
>
> Breaking the crankshaft pulley bolt free last week has paid off, anyway.
Today
> when I went to remove it, it came off very easily, with I estimate no more
than
> 150 ft-lbs. of torque.
>
> "pjohnson" <news@thejohnsonabode.com> wrote
> > I'm replacing the timing belt for the 90k service. Whats the
recommendation
> > on replacing the shaft seals? Are they pretty easy to pull and replace
once
> > the gears are off?
>
>

Lex

they are easy to replace, just remove the cam gear. I would replace the cam
seal, balancer shaft seal, and front seal, with oem seals of course. be sure
to install the new seals correctly. we do this on every timing belt/water
pump service we perform at the Honda dealership I work at. inspect the
tensioner and balancer belt and replace if necessary.
"pjohnson" <news@thejohnsonabode.com> wrote in message
news:YLvzc.71146$My6.52451@fed1read05...
> I'm replacing the timing belt for the 90k service. Whats the
recommendation
> on replacing the shaft seals? Are they pretty easy to pull and replace
once
> the gears are off?
>
> --
>
>
> Paul J.
>
>

Caroline

Well-done. Here's to creative problem-solving. :-)

Should you decide to replace the seals, after thinking about it overnight I
decided to try a corkscrew and a can opener (the kind on a scout knife). They
worked great. The seal do pop right out, once one has a hook-like tool to get a
good grip and allow a good several tugs. See my other post on this under
"Camshaft Removal Question."

"pjohnson" <news@thejohnsonabode.com> wrote
> I went through the same problem with the stuck bolt. I found friendly
> mechanic with an impact wrench it couldn't say no to.

snip amazing and amusing tale from "The Darkside" of Honda repairs. ;-)


> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote

> > My 91 Civic is at 153k. I am in the process of replacing the front crank
> seal
> > (a.k.a. front oil pump seal), as many have recommended as part of a timing
> belt
> > job. The seal is coming out in tiny pieces. I'm tearing it up with an
> exacto
> > knife, a small screwdriver, and pliers, trying to spare damage to the
> journal.
> > I'm now considering removing the oil pump to do this right.
> >
> > This seal seems practically hardened into place. Maybe it's the original
> and
> > this is why this is why it's such a bear. Will google to say if there are
> > suggestions on this.
> >
> > Breaking the crankshaft pulley bolt free last week has paid off, anyway.
> Today
> > when I went to remove it, it came off very easily, with I estimate no more
> than
> > 150 ft-lbs. of torque.
> >
> > "pjohnson" <news@thejohnsonabode.com> wrote
> > > I'm replacing the timing belt for the 90k service. Whats the
> recommendation
> > > on replacing the shaft seals? Are they pretty easy to pull and replace
> once
> > > the gears are off?

Aron

how about just remove the balancer shaft. No seal, no belt, less
friction, less weight, and one less GM/FORD-school part in the engine sounds
great.


"Lex" <aacevedo4@elp.rr.com> wrote in message
news7Qzc.13649$ar2.4026@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> they are easy to replace, just remove the cam gear. I would replace the
cam
> seal, balancer shaft seal, and front seal, with oem seals of course. be
sure
> to install the new seals correctly. we do this on every timing belt/water
> pump service we perform at the Honda dealership I work at. inspect the
> tensioner and balancer belt and replace if necessary.
> "pjohnson" <news@thejohnsonabode.com> wrote in message
> news:YLvzc.71146$My6.52451@fed1read05...
> > I'm replacing the timing belt for the 90k service. Whats the
> recommendation
> > on replacing the shaft seals? Are they pretty easy to pull and replace
> once
> > the gears are off?
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Paul J.
> >
> >
>
>

Torqued

Aron wrote:
>
> how about just remove the balancer shaft. No seal, no belt, less
> friction, less weight, and one less GM/FORD-school part in the engine
> sounds great.

sure... there are two balance shafts. one in the front of the block and one
in the back. they spin in opposite directions. removing them would require
you to remove the engine from the car. you would then have a large hole in
the block where the front shaft and seal used to be creating a huge oil
leak. lastly, the motor would probably shake itself to pieces.

the clueless helping the clueless. go figure...

pjohnson

1) I don't take kindly to being referred to as clueless simply because I'm
asking for advice on a particular maintenance task.

2) They actually make kits for blanking off the balance shaft access after
removing the shafts. Some gear heads want a few more HP and don't mind a
little rock-n-roll.

From what I know the balance shafts are there to remove a second order
vibration resulting from the variation of piston harmonics between TDC and
BDC. Its a nicety, but removing them wouldn't necessarily result in the
engine shaking itself apart.



"Torqued" <torqued@rusted.nuts> wrote in message
news:40D0D207.321A7F8E@rusted.nuts...
> Aron wrote:
> >
> > how about just remove the balancer shaft. No seal, no belt, less
> > friction, less weight, and one less GM/FORD-school part in the engine
> > sounds great.
>
> sure... there are two balance shafts. one in the front of the block and
one
> in the back. they spin in opposite directions. removing them would require
> you to remove the engine from the car. you would then have a large hole in
> the block where the front shaft and seal used to be creating a huge oil
> leak. lastly, the motor would probably shake itself to pieces.
>
> the clueless helping the clueless. go figure...

Torqued

pjohnson wrote:
>
> They actually make kits for blanking off the balance shaft access after
> removing the shafts. Some gear heads want a few more HP and don't mind a
> little rock-n-roll.
>
> From what I know the balance shafts are there to remove a second order
> vibration resulting from the variation of piston harmonics between TDC and
> BDC. Its a nicety, but removing them wouldn't necessarily result in the
> engine shaking itself apart.
>

perhaps but the other posters recommendation that the shafts be removed
which requires pulling the engine vs installing a simple seal retainer while
doing a timing belt can hardly be considered good advice.

Aron

I agree, unless you're into engine-pulling kind of work. Some people are.
I just don't like balance shafts at all. Wasting gas to sling dead weight
around to make up for a little vibration just does not make sense. Then ad
the fact that it increases the necessity and cost of repair and maintenance
and it becomes a terrible idea. You can passively damp vibration at the
mounts with no increase in maintenance.


"Torqued" <torqued@rusted.nuts> wrote in message
news:40D4080D.5F1BD579@rusted.nuts...
> pjohnson wrote:
> >
> > They actually make kits for blanking off the balance shaft access after
> > removing the shafts. Some gear heads want a few more HP and don't mind a
> > little rock-n-roll.
> >
> > From what I know the balance shafts are there to remove a second order
> > vibration resulting from the variation of piston harmonics between TDC
and
> > BDC. Its a nicety, but removing them wouldn't necessarily result in the
> > engine shaking itself apart.
> >
>
> perhaps but the other posters recommendation that the shafts be removed
> which requires pulling the engine vs installing a simple seal retainer
while
> doing a timing belt can hardly be considered good advice.