Re: Crosstour
 

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:05:48 -0800 (PST), billzz <billzz@wildblue.net>
wrote:

>We may be twins. My E-type was 62, drove what you drove, and even
>thought about the Sunbeam, in Germany. I'm 71, and with grandsons,
>have to have the Pilot. And right you say about Jaguar maintenance
>headaches. Stuck fuel pump? (Hit it with a rubber hammer.) Blown
>fuzes? Well, they did not call Lucas (the electrical system) the
>"Prince of Darkness" for nothing. Starter motor whining? Get a big
>screwdriver and insert into the opening in the transmission and move
>the gears until the starter motor catches a gear. I could go on
>forever. drive a Jaguar across the Mohave and it will overheat, but
>you can put the heater on and use that small radiator to disperse
>heat. With all windows open and your feet blistering, but it works.
>The mod is to replace the radiator with a small block Chevy radiator,
>which hangs below, but it works. Air conditioning? Forget it. Ah,
>the good old days. They never worked quite right, but when they
>worked, they were heaven on wheels. I wish I had them back. Of
>course I would be broke trying to maintain them.

And if you over-revved them, they threw - was it rods, pistons, or
valves?

J.

Re: Crosstour
 

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:59:14 -0800 (PST), ACAR
<dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> wrote:

>So going back to the topic at hand; the Crosstour. With AWD this thing
>is over 4000 lb. You can beat the crap out of VTEC all you want; 4000
>lb. is too much mass for Honda's I4 to move about smartly. Besides,
>putting in a V6 allows Honda to jack up the price.

My biggest peeve about Honda these days is the high gross weight of
pretty much the entire line. Sure it makes the driving comfortable,
and given the high weight the performance and mileage are amazing, but
it still costs performance and/or mileage to drag around 3300 pounds
for an Accord I4 sedan and the Civic ... hey, have they got a
reduction on them this year, down to 2700 for the EX sedan? I had it
in memory that they were even closer to Accord weights.

1980's Accords and Civics were smaller, yes, but weighed much less,
too. How about adding something like updated versions of *those* to
the Honda line?

Glancing over at Acura ... a new ZDX?

But the Crosstour is still just a TL with a Honda badge, right? Still
smells to me like Honda is blurring the boundaries between the two
lines. Not that they've ever been all that separate. Come on, add
some mileage-maker technology to the Honda line, and drop a V8 into
the top of the Acura line.

J.

Re: Crosstour
 

On Dec 18, 11:32 am, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:59:14 -0800 (PST), ACAR
>
snip
>
> But the Crosstour is still just a TL with a Honda badge, right?

You could say the Accord is just a stripper TL with a Honda badge.

> Still
> smells to me like Honda is blurring the boundaries between the two
> lines.

Well, what do you expect when two brands come off a single production
line?

> Not that they've ever been all that separate. Come on, add
> some mileage-maker technology to the Honda line, and drop a V8 into
> the top of the Acura line.

Imagine all the money Honda would have for cars if it gave up on
trucklets.

Re: Crosstour
 

On Dec 18, 8:14 am, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:05:48 -0800 (PST), billzz <bil...@wildblue.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >We may be twins. My E-type was 62, drove what you drove, and even
> >thought about the Sunbeam, in Germany. I'm 71, and with grandsons,
> >have to have the Pilot. And right you say about Jaguar maintenance
> >headaches. Stuck fuel pump? (Hit it with a rubber hammer.) Blown
> >fuzes? Well, they did not call Lucas (the electrical system) the
> >"Prince of Darkness" for nothing. Starter motor whining? Get a big
> >screwdriver and insert into the opening in the transmission and move
> >the gears until the starter motor catches a gear. I could go on
> >forever. drive a Jaguar across the Mohave and it will overheat, but
> >you can put the heater on and use that small radiator to disperse
> >heat. With all windows open and your feet blistering, but it works.
> >The mod is to replace the radiator with a small block Chevy radiator,
> >which hangs below, but it works. Air conditioning? Forget it. Ah,
> >the good old days. They never worked quite right, but when they
> >worked, they were heaven on wheels. I wish I had them back. Of
> >course I would be broke trying to maintain them.
>
> And if you over-revved them, they threw - was it rods, pistons, or
> valves?
>
> J.

Well I never had that occur, but I did have to have the valves
replaced, which involved removing the headers, the camshafts, the
steel shims, the valves, then reassembling doing a micrometer check on
all the shims, and grinding them down (if needed) to each individual
valve stem. I had to have an actual Jaguar shop do that as few would
even look at it and that took my army lieutenant paycheck for many
months. Even the gasket is tricky because the top part of the engine
is aluminium, and the bottom part is chrome steel, which is why the
old ones leaked a lot of oil. I've never known of one coming apart
for passing the redline - which was pretty high - as they could take a
lot of abuse. The Type-D racing cars used the old Castrol, which was
castor oil, and high temps would leave an impervious film on the
piston walls, gradually increasing the compression, making for a more
competitive engine as the race went on - and sealing up all the "loose
parts." And they smelled. I noted that to one of the team members,
and he sniffed, and said, "That is how you tell it is a *Genuine
Jaguar!* Then they had to rebuild the engine after each race or so -
or it would seize up, but I've never seen one do that. Now I just get
in my Honda and drive, and nothing is going to happen. Takes all the
suspense out of the driving experience.

Re: Crosstour
 

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 09:13:39 -0800 (PST), ACAR
<dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Dec 18, 11:32 am, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:59:14 -0800 (PST), ACAR
>>
>snip
>>
>> But the Crosstour is still just a TL with a Honda badge, right?
>
>You could say the Accord is just a stripper TL with a Honda badge.

Nah, the other way around - TL is a loaded-up Accord.


>> Still
>> smells to me like Honda is blurring the boundaries between the two
>> lines.
>
>Well, what do you expect when two brands come off a single production
>line?

Just saying they need to do what they can to differentiate.

>> Not that they've ever been all that separate. Come on, add
>> some mileage-maker technology to the Honda line, and drop a V8 into
>> the top of the Acura line.
>
>Imagine all the money Honda would have for cars if it gave up on
>trucklets.

Maybe they could get into motorcycles or jet planes or something.

J.

Re: Crosstour
 

"billzz" <billzz@wildblue.net> wrote in message
news:6e8ba49e-8bb2-4bec-94bc-b97eb33949b9@m33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 17, 3:46 pm, "tww1491" <twau...@cox.net> wrote:
> "billzz" <bil...@wildblue.net> wrote in message
>
> news:4a937b8e-3506-4022-af6e-27cf7d1d5852@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 16, 5:44 pm, "zzznot" <zzz...@invalid.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "tww1491" <twau...@cox.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:wSeWm.178$lH1.169@newsfe12.iad...
>
> > > I recall years ago in a car mag seeing an article that featured a 12
> > > cylinder inline Jag XKE. The builder had coupled two 3.8 Jag I6s for
> > > about the longest engine you ever saw. Brings to mind the old Buick
> > > straight eight. Frankly, I avoid V6s and am very happy with my Accord
> > > I4.
> > > Heck I wish I still had my Prelude.
>
> > I vaguely recall seeing that, and only later realizing it
> > was a parody. Had a tv camera in the nose to make up for
> > the extra-long hood. That was pretty funny, circa 1975.
>
> > J.
>
> I have owned an XK-140 Jaguar and an E-Type (technically there was no
> XKE, but everyone called it that, so it became the de facto name.)
> There certainly was a 12 cylinder E-Type, and it was a very long
> engine, because of the double overhead camshaft design. As an aside
> the first Ferrari V-12 was made up of two V-6s, one behind the other.
> I've also owned a Prelude, a generation ahead of its time, and, I
> thought, could really give my E-Type a run for the money. But what do
> I know. I'm old. Really old. I raced the XK-140 at Laguna Seca, in
> 1959, when they had pro-am races, and I was the amateur, and had to
> retire, after one lap, when I realized that I was probably the only
> one paying for my fenders. Passed by two Ferraris, within the first
> quarter-mile. Now I have a new Honda Pilot Touring (because we have
> two grandsons) so that is what happens to you. Nice to hear something
> about Jaguars. They were totally great (when they ran) and I wish I
> had them both today.
>
> I had a 64 E type back in the mid 60s -- bought it used in 65 or 66. I was
> USAF Lt at the time. It was a maroon (red) roadster. Have driven 120s and
> 140s. Traded the Jag off on a Sunbeam Tiger which I modified and
> autocrossed
> when I was in Japan. Loved the Jag, but it was a real maintenance
> headache.
> I guess at age 68 I'm old but I still work -- have a grandson and drive an
> 06 Accord I4 coupe...we also have Pilot and a CRV.

We may be twins. My E-type was 62, drove what you drove, and even
thought about the Sunbeam, in Germany. I'm 71, and with grandsons,
have to have the Pilot. And right you say about Jaguar maintenance
headaches. Stuck fuel pump? (Hit it with a rubber hammer.) Blown
fuzes? Well, they did not call Lucas (the electrical system) the
"Prince of Darkness" for nothing. Starter motor whining? Get a big
screwdriver and insert into the opening in the transmission and move
the gears until the starter motor catches a gear. I could go on
forever. drive a Jaguar across the Mohave and it will overheat, but
you can put the heater on and use that small radiator to disperse
heat. With all windows open and your feet blistering, but it works.
The mod is to replace the radiator with a small block Chevy radiator,
which hangs below, but it works. Air conditioning? Forget it. Ah,
the good old days. They never worked quite right, but when they
worked, they were heaven on wheels. I wish I had them back. Of
course I would be broke trying to maintain them.

After all these years--- the solution to the stuck starter. I used to take
it off and clean the bendix. But, until then, push the car and start in 2nd
gear. Of course, don't forget the baggie on the distributor to keep it dry
when going through a deep puddle. Radiator -- I was stationed in Laredo Tx
at the time -- overheat was the norm in traffic in the hot summers. Then,
there were the leaking freeze plugs. Ah the memories. The Tiger was a
delight after that -- it would'nt break.

Re: Crosstour
 

"JRStern" <JRStern@foobar.invalid> wrote in message
news:7hani5lb5vu7choonesrrl0lkf487j3o9t@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:05:48 -0800 (PST), billzz <billzz@wildblue.net>
> wrote:
>
>>We may be twins. My E-type was 62, drove what you drove, and even
>>thought about the Sunbeam, in Germany. I'm 71, and with grandsons,
>>have to have the Pilot. And right you say about Jaguar maintenance
>>headaches. Stuck fuel pump? (Hit it with a rubber hammer.) Blown
>>fuzes? Well, they did not call Lucas (the electrical system) the
>>"Prince of Darkness" for nothing. Starter motor whining? Get a big
>>screwdriver and insert into the opening in the transmission and move
>>the gears until the starter motor catches a gear. I could go on
>>forever. drive a Jaguar across the Mohave and it will overheat, but
>>you can put the heater on and use that small radiator to disperse
>>heat. With all windows open and your feet blistering, but it works.
>>The mod is to replace the radiator with a small block Chevy radiator,
>>which hangs below, but it works. Air conditioning? Forget it. Ah,
>>the good old days. They never worked quite right, but when they
>>worked, they were heaven on wheels. I wish I had them back. Of
>>course I would be broke trying to maintain them.
>
> And if you over-revved them, they threw - was it rods, pistons, or
> valves?

Rod bearings -- I know from bitter experience.
>
> J.
>

Re: Crosstour
 

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:35:59 -0500, "tww1491" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote:

>After all these years--- the solution to the stuck starter. I used to take
>it off and clean the bendix. But, until then, push the car and start in 2nd
>gear. Of course, don't forget the baggie on the distributor to keep it dry
>when going through a deep puddle. Radiator -- I was stationed in Laredo Tx
>at the time -- overheat was the norm in traffic in the hot summers. Then,
>there were the leaking freeze plugs. Ah the memories. The Tiger was a
>delight after that -- it would'nt break.

Gosh, all my 1971 Fiat 124 would do is break lose the gas line to the
carb and spray gasoline all over the hot engine. No problem, just
rough up the brass connector with a file and shove it back in the
hole, good for months more reliable driving!

J.

Re: Crosstour
 

In article <siani557qsgbspf98dd5vn7afdbmbe03v0@4ax.com>,
JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> wrote:

> Glancing over at Acura ... a new ZDX?
>
> But the Crosstour is still just a TL with a Honda badge, right?

Not quite.

There's the Accord. Then there's the TL, which is an Accord with an
Acura badge and upmarket equipment not available under the Honda label.

Then there's the Crosstour, which is an Accord wagon--except in this day
and age they're deathly afraid to use the phrase "station wagon," hence
the entirely different name.

And of course, the ZDX is--ta daaaa--a Crosstour with an Acura badge and
upmarket equipment htat's not available under the Honda label. Also
known as a TL station wagon.

Re: Crosstour
 

On Dec 18, 4:00 pm, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:35:59 -0500, "tww1491" <twau...@cox.net> wrote:
> >After all these years--- the solution to the stuck starter. I used to take
> >it off and clean the bendix. But, until then, push the car and start in 2nd
> >gear. Of course, don't forget the baggie on the distributor to keep it dry
> >when going through a deep puddle. Radiator -- I was stationed in Laredo Tx
> >at the time -- overheat was the norm in traffic in the hot summers. Then,
> >there were the leaking freeze plugs. Ah the memories. The Tiger was a
> >delight after that -- it would'nt break.
>
> Gosh, all my 1971 Fiat 124 would do is break lose the gas line to the
> carb and spray gasoline all over the hot engine. No problem, just
> rough up the brass connector with a file and shove it back in the
> hole, good for months more reliable driving!
>
> J.

What great memories. I also owned a 1970s Fiat 124 with the MC heads
and it's trick was to short out in the coil, and come to a dead stop.
The solution was to open up the cap and extend the spring, the end of
which was burnt off, and good to go for another thousand miles. But
it was fun, fun, fun to drive. It sounded like it was turning 7000
RPM at all times, the tires made a screech around every turn. Going
to the grocery store was like driving Monza, but the thing was that I
loved that. Now, all I do, is sit in my Honda and have a quiet
time.

Re: Crosstour
 

"billzz" <billzz@wildblue.net> wrote in message
news:11e1f858-7ca6-43fc-b21e-2f4c71c7663f@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 18, 4:00 pm, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:35:59 -0500, "tww1491" <twau...@cox.net> wrote:
> >After all these years--- the solution to the stuck starter. I used to
> >take
> >it off and clean the bendix. But, until then, push the car and start in
> >2nd
> >gear. Of course, don't forget the baggie on the distributor to keep it
> >dry
> >when going through a deep puddle. Radiator -- I was stationed in Laredo
> >Tx
> >at the time -- overheat was the norm in traffic in the hot summers. Then,
> >there were the leaking freeze plugs. Ah the memories. The Tiger was a
> >delight after that -- it would'nt break.
>
> Gosh, all my 1971 Fiat 124 would do is break lose the gas line to the
> carb and spray gasoline all over the hot engine. No problem, just
> rough up the brass connector with a file and shove it back in the
> hole, good for months more reliable driving!
>
> J.

What great memories. I also owned a 1970s Fiat 124 with the MC heads
and it's trick was to short out in the coil, and come to a dead stop.
The solution was to open up the cap and extend the spring, the end of
which was burnt off, and good to go for another thousand miles. But
it was fun, fun, fun to drive. It sounded like it was turning 7000
RPM at all times, the tires made a screech around every turn. Going
to the grocery store was like driving Monza, but the thing was that I
loved that. Now, all I do, is sit in my Honda and have a quiet
time.

My furst Honda was a 1967 CL 77 scrambler in Japan. That experience was an
insight to Honda and it's engineering -- bulletproof. In Dec 1968 at the
Tokyo motorshow I was stunned (as many people were) by the Honda CB 750 four
cylinder, with a disc brake no less, on a turnstile. I owned one later when
I returned to the States. That motorcycle literally turned the bike world on
it head and spelled the end for Norton, Triumph BSA and others. The 750 was
dead reliable and a real performer--but did not handle as well as the
British bikes. I remember the Fiat too -- lovely car. I still think of
Honda as an engineering company that happens to build cars and motorcycles.

Re: Crosstour
 

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:01:14 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <siani557qsgbspf98dd5vn7afdbmbe03v0@4ax.com>,
> JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Glancing over at Acura ... a new ZDX?
>>
>> But the Crosstour is still just a TL with a Honda badge, right?
>
>Not quite.
>
>There's the Accord. Then there's the TL, which is an Accord with an
>Acura badge and upmarket equipment not available under the Honda label.
>
>Then there's the Crosstour, which is an Accord wagon--except in this day
>and age they're deathly afraid to use the phrase "station wagon," hence
>the entirely different name.
>
>And of course, the ZDX is--ta daaaa--a Crosstour with an Acura badge and
>upmarket equipment htat's not available under the Honda label. Also
>known as a TL station wagon.

Just glancing at the website, I couldn't tell if the ZDX was the
Crosstour, it looked ... taller.

But the basic TL is nearly a station wagon at this point, the rear
window is higher and longer than the Accord.

And I thought this crossover (!) car/SUV thing had already run its
course. Guess not, as long as gas stays under $4/gallon.

J.

Re: Crosstour
 

On 12/18/2009 08:12 AM, JRStern wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 05:30:05 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> i'm not complaining about the car, i'm complaining about "shoot from the
>> hip" b.s. being presented as fact. "definitive" statements like "it's
>> got nothing" are just plain wrong. as opposed to "i think it's got
>> nothing relative to..." of course. and ignoring of course the
>> ridiculousness of this statement when looking at motors that develop
>> peak power within only a few hundred rpm of red line.
>> http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-...fications.aspx
>
> You want to add something to the conversation, show me some power and
> torque curves for the Accord versus the Civic SI, and you will see
> what I mean.
>
> (Road and Track used to publish those in reviews, I never see them
> anymore ... but it's true I haven't looked very hard)

and that is the whole point of what i've been saying - you have an
"opinion" but it's completely underinformed. where i come from, that's
otherwise known as "bullshit".


>
> And try the decaf.

try not wasting electrons. you're plugged in to the net. you have
access to google. freakin' well use it.

Re: Crosstour
 

On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:35:55 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 12/18/2009 08:12 AM, JRStern wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 05:30:05 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> i'm not complaining about the car, i'm complaining about "shoot from the
>>> hip" b.s. being presented as fact. "definitive" statements like "it's
>>> got nothing" are just plain wrong. as opposed to "i think it's got
>>> nothing relative to..." of course. and ignoring of course the
>>> ridiculousness of this statement when looking at motors that develop
>>> peak power within only a few hundred rpm of red line.
>>> http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-...fications.aspx
>>
>> You want to add something to the conversation, show me some power and
>> torque curves for the Accord versus the Civic SI, and you will see
>> what I mean.
....
>> And try the decaf.
>
>try not wasting electrons. you're plugged in to the net. you have
>access to google. freakin' well use it.

back atcha.

J.

Re: Crosstour
 

On 12/19/2009 04:42 PM, JRStern wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:35:55 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On 12/18/2009 08:12 AM, JRStern wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 05:30:05 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> i'm not complaining about the car, i'm complaining about "shoot from the
>>>> hip" b.s. being presented as fact. "definitive" statements like "it's
>>>> got nothing" are just plain wrong. as opposed to "i think it's got
>>>> nothing relative to..." of course. and ignoring of course the
>>>> ridiculousness of this statement when looking at motors that develop
>>>> peak power within only a few hundred rpm of red line.
>>>> http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-...fications.aspx
>>>
>>> You want to add something to the conversation, show me some power and
>>> torque curves for the Accord versus the Civic SI, and you will see
>>> what I mean.
> ...
>>> And try the decaf.
>>
>> try not wasting electrons. you're plugged in to the net. you have
>> access to google. freakin' well use it.
>
> back atcha.
>

eh? you make the factual misstatements, but i'm the one that needs to
do the homework? you've got yourself a significant reality problem
there guy.